(01-19-2018 09:39 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I think as far as your first question goes...it depends. When one guy is a SIGNIFICANTLY better defender and protects the ball better (allowing for your other 4 scorers to get more chances) there is value in him being on the floor as well. Especially when he hasn't been a liability at all on offense.

JJ's defense is overstated; he doesn't make many mistakes, but he's not really a good enough defender. He's a safe defender, but he's a 5'10 in PG with 10 steals / 16 rebounds on the season, on a team that prides itself on hands touching the ball. We don't have a shutdown type guard defender, and haven't really since IMac.

The biggest advantage JJ has over Broome right now is psychological. JJ has accepted his role and plays within himself, he passes really well protects the ball, and the two compliment each other. Broome is the better player, but has trouble being a role player.

(01-19-2018 10:04 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Jennifer is the classic PG for a one and done team. If that's your ceiling and expectation then I guess he's okay, but he has zero offensive skill. He cannot shoot and his foul shooting is bad as well. If UC ever hopes to make a run they need to find far more talented players on the offensive end at the PG position. The only hope for a run is for Broome to continue to develop and improve and run away with the job.

He's a 76% foul shooter (Cane is 71%) shooting 37% from 3.

(01-19-2018 10:14 AM)ucbrownsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 09:39 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I think as far as your first question goes...it depends. When one guy is a SIGNIFICANTLY better defender and protects the ball better (allowing for your other 4 scorers to get more chances) there is value in him being on the floor as well. Especially when he hasn't been a liability at all on offense.

JJ's defense is overstated; he doesn't make many mistakes, but he's not really a good enough defender. He's a safe defender, but he's a 5'10 in PG with 10 steals / 16 rebounds on the season, on a team that prides itself on hands touching the ball. We don't have a shutdown type guard defender, and haven't really since IMac.

The biggest advantage JJ has over Broome right now is psychological. JJ has accepted his role and plays within himself, he passes really well protects the ball, and the two compliment each other. Broome is the better player, but has trouble being a role player.

His job isn't to go for steals. When he's in the game his job is to disrupt the guy who initiates the offense for the other team and prevent them from getting into what they want to do. He's been unbelievable at that. Watch how much teams struggle to get their offense started when he is guarding the PG. His ball pressure against the other team's initiator allows the other guys to play denial and get in the passing lane. It makes his man struggle to get others involved. That initial ball pressure where he gets into his man sets up everything we do behind him.

Watch how he fights through screens and prevents the mismatches which would allow the UC defense to get out of position and the other teams to create things they want to get. He doesn't let himself get screened (sometimes drawing big illegal screens as a result). Mick's entire defensively philosophy is predicated on preventing teams from running their stuff and getting the kind of looks their used to getting. This year it often starts with JJ and the ball pressure he gets on the opposing PG. This allows the guys behind him to get deflections as the PG tries to force things that aren't there.

(01-19-2018 10:14 AM)ucbrownsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 09:39 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I think as far as your first question goes...it depends. When one guy is a SIGNIFICANTLY better defender and protects the ball better (allowing for your other 4 scorers to get more chances) there is value in him being on the floor as well. Especially when he hasn't been a liability at all on offense.

JJ's defense is overstated; he doesn't make many mistakes, but he's not really a good enough defender. He's a safe defender, but he's a 5'10 in PG with 10 steals / 16 rebounds on the season, on a team that prides itself on hands touching the ball. We don't have a shutdown type guard defender, and haven't really since IMac.

JJ is better in the context of team defense. When Broome reaches his guy blows by him which forces the help defense to come over instead of being able to stay home for better rebounding position. Ppl can easily shoot over JJ but they are generally settling for treys and he's closing out on them to the best of his ability.

On offense, i want more from JJ as well but i want him to be able to squeeze passes to the big on a pick and roll, which he hasn't shown. And he needs to take and make more shots. i get the latter statement seems obvious but the reality of the matter is he's a liability because he doesn't shoot enough and doesn't make enough of the shots that he takes. if you want to talk about playing 4 v. 5 on offense, he needs to be more of a factor and that includes rhythm jumpers inside of the arc instead of the wide open treys he is generally offered. if he takes smart shots that are wide open, i would welcome that 100%.

Advanced stats on defense are by no means perfect, but Broome actually has a better defensive rating (87.6) than Jennifer (94, worst of the rotation players). The eye test also tells me Broome is also a pretty good defender. He is by no means lost out there.

(01-19-2018 11:03 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  Advanced stats on defense are by no means perfect, but Broome actually has a better defensive rating (87.6) than Jennifer (94, worst of the rotation players). The eye test also tells me Broome is also a pretty good defender. He is by no means lost out there.

i can't speak to advanced stats, but we're definitely seeing different things. i haven't watched all the games but i've seen the majority of them; and in the ones that i've watched i've been less then impressed with his defense.

(01-19-2018 11:03 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  Advanced stats on defense are by no means perfect, but Broome actually has a better defensive rating (87.6) than Jennifer (94, worst of the rotation players). The eye test also tells me Broome is also a pretty good defender. He is by no means lost out there.

His hips are terrible.

(01-19-2018 11:12 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 11:03 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  Advanced stats on defense are by no means perfect, but Broome actually has a better defensive rating (87.6) than Jennifer (94, worst of the rotation players). The eye test also tells me Broome is also a pretty good defender. He is by no means lost out there.

i can't speak to advanced stats, but we're definitely seeing different things. i haven't watched all the games but i've seen the majority of them; and in the ones that i've watched i've been less then impressed with his defense.

Sure, but when Broome gets blown by, it sticks out more than the rebound Broome got that Jenifer may not have. Our +/- is better with Broome on the floor, but JJ adds a nice consistency.

In my eyes we have one great defender (Clark), one very good defender (Evans), and the rest of the guys are limited but would fall under the good category. Brooks/Williams look to be guys that could make that jump to very good defenders to me as well.

(01-19-2018 10:30 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  His job isn't to go for steals. When he's in the game his job is to disrupt the guy who initiates the offense for the other team and prevent them from getting into what they want to do. He's been unbelievable at that. Watch how much teams struggle to get their offense started when he is guarding the PG. His ball pressure against the other team's initiator allows the other guys to play denial and get in the passing lane. It makes his man struggle to get others involved. That initial ball pressure where he gets into his man sets up everything we do behind him.

Watch how he fights through screens and prevents the mismatches which would allow the UC defense to get out of position and the other teams to create things they want to get. He doesn't let himself get screened (sometimes drawing big illegal screens as a result). Mick's entire defensively philosophy is predicated on preventing teams from running their stuff and getting the kind of looks their used to getting. This year it often starts with JJ and the ball pressure he gets on the opposing PG. This allows the guys behind him to get deflections as the PG tries to force things that aren't there.

I think he does a great job against pass-first PG's, but is poor against PG that can create their own shot.

That's part of the reason for our struggles against X and Florida.

I'd love to see the tempo differences with the two in the game, though I don't know if they would exist anywhere.

(01-19-2018 11:45 AM)ucbrownsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 10:30 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  His job isn't to go for steals. When he's in the game his job is to disrupt the guy who initiates the offense for the other team and prevent them from getting into what they want to do. He's been unbelievable at that. Watch how much teams struggle to get their offense started when he is guarding the PG. His ball pressure against the other team's initiator allows the other guys to play denial and get in the passing lane. It makes his man struggle to get others involved. That initial ball pressure where he gets into his man sets up everything we do behind him.

Watch how he fights through screens and prevents the mismatches which would allow the UC defense to get out of position and the other teams to create things they want to get. He doesn't let himself get screened (sometimes drawing big illegal screens as a result). Mick's entire defensively philosophy is predicated on preventing teams from running their stuff and getting the kind of looks their used to getting. This year it often starts with JJ and the ball pressure he gets on the opposing PG. This allows the guys behind him to get deflections as the PG tries to force things that aren't there.

I think he does a great job against pass-first PG's, but is poor against PG that can create their own shot.

That's part of the reason for our struggles against X and Florida.

I'd love to see the tempo differences with the two in the game, though I don't know if they would exist anywhere.

Xavier's PG is the definition of a pass first PG that doesn't create his own shot. We struggled with Xavier, because we let them catch the ball too deep early, they finished around the rim and that lead to some good 3s. When we finally started playing better defense we didn't defensive rebound and they got second chance points. (and we didn't hit shots for about 10 minutes).

As far as Tempo... I'm sure someone tracks it broken down by lineups but I don't know where to find that.

As far as UC's tempo (which has continued to drop), UC is actually playing a lot faster on offense this year. They are looking more for quick baskets than they have, then settle in when it is not there. They are only 310 in kenpom adjusted tempo, but that's largely due to the fact that they almost never get beat in transition on defense and don't give up easy baskets. Teams take a long time to do anything against UC (they are 310 in adjusted defensive tempo). They are exactly average in offensive tempo (173 kenpom). For comparison UC was 303 last year in offensive tempo, 236 the year before, 334 the year before that and 280 the year before that.

Of course last year's team that finished 303 in offensive tempo also finished 34 in adj offensive efficiency while this team is currently 57th... playing faster hasn't made them better at least on offense. That said, I think this team is due for a hot shooting stretch that will bring their offensive numbers up. We shall see.

(01-19-2018 11:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Of course last year's team that finished 303 in offensive tempo also finished 34 in adj offensive efficiency while this team is currently 57th... playing faster hasn't made them better at least on offense. That said, I think this team is due for a hot shooting stretch that will bring their offensive numbers up. We shall see.

the turnovers are what have to come down. we rebound more of our misses this year, we shoot 2.2% better from 3. our effective FG% is .8 better than last year.



but we turn it over 3.1% more often. evans' TORate has jumped from 11.8 to 17.2, cumberland went from 15.1 to 20.2. we knew we'd take a hit at PG, but it was unexpected from those 2 (although evans makes some sense since he's on the ball more than he was in the past).

(01-19-2018 12:10 PM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 11:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Of course last year's team that finished 303 in offensive tempo also finished 34 in adj offensive efficiency while this team is currently 57th... playing faster hasn't made them better at least on offense. That said, I think this team is due for a hot shooting stretch that will bring their offensive numbers up. We shall see.

the turnovers are what have to come down. we rebound more of our misses this year, we shoot 2.2% better from 3. our effective FG% is .8 better than last year.



but we turn it over 3.1% more often. evans' TORate has jumped from 11.8 to 17.2, cumberland went from 15.1 to 20.2. we knew we'd take a hit at PG, but it was unexpected from those 2 (although evans makes some sense since he's on the ball more than he was in the past).

Great point. This has certainly been an issue when we've struggled on offense this year.

(01-19-2018 11:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  As far as UC's tempo (which has continued to drop), UC is actually playing a lot faster on offense this year. They are looking more for quick baskets than they have, then settle in when it is not there. They are only 310 in kenpom adjusted tempo, but that's largely due to the fact that they almost never get beat in transition on defense and don't give up easy baskets. Teams take a long time to do anything against UC (they are 310 in adjusted defensive tempo). They are exactly average in offensive tempo (173 kenpom). For comparison UC was 303 last year in offensive tempo, 236 the year before, 334 the year before that and 280 the year before that.

Of course last year's team that finished 303 in offensive tempo also finished 34 in adj offensive efficiency while this team is currently 57th... playing faster hasn't made them better at least on offense. That said, I think this team is due for a hot shooting stretch that will bring their offensive numbers up. We shall see.

What is UC's offensive tempo the last 4 games? As usual, Mick talks alot about improving the speed of the offense then as the season progresses he slows them down. By year end UC will be in the 230+ range. Micks inability to change combined with not recognizing he has a potential secret weapon in Cane Broome will likely cost UC the chance to be very special this year.

I would have preferred to see Mick allow this team to play faster and let Broome be the focal point at PG and live with the growing pains in hopes that by the end of the season they have gelled into an elite team. Sure it may cost them offensive efficiency early in the season by by year end they could have become something special.

(01-19-2018 12:47 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  What is UC's offensive tempo the last 4 games? As usual, Mick talks alot about improving the speed of the offense then as the season progresses he slows them down. By year end UC will be in the 230+ range. Micks inability to change combined with not recognizing he has a potential secret weapon in Cane Broome will likely cost UC the chance to be very special this year.

I would have preferred to see Mick allow this team to play faster and let Broome be the focal point at PG and live with the growing pains in hopes that by the end of the season they have gelled into an elite team. Sure it may cost them offensive efficiency early in the season by by year end they could have become something special.

its hard to tell by going by overall possessions cause a lot of teams in our conference play very slow on offense and play the type of defense that slows down most offenses.

for the season our offensive time per possession on offense is 17.3 (national average is 17.2). on defense its 17.9. however in conference play the offensive number goes up to 19.0 and the defensive number goes up to an insane 20.9.

this is not a conference that is going to allow teams to run on them.

(01-19-2018 12:47 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 11:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  As far as UC's tempo (which has continued to drop), UC is actually playing a lot faster on offense this year. They are looking more for quick baskets than they have, then settle in when it is not there. They are only 310 in kenpom adjusted tempo, but that's largely due to the fact that they almost never get beat in transition on defense and don't give up easy baskets. Teams take a long time to do anything against UC (they are 310 in adjusted defensive tempo). They are exactly average in offensive tempo (173 kenpom). For comparison UC was 303 last year in offensive tempo, 236 the year before, 334 the year before that and 280 the year before that.

Of course last year's team that finished 303 in offensive tempo also finished 34 in adj offensive efficiency while this team is currently 57th... playing faster hasn't made them better at least on offense. That said, I think this team is due for a hot shooting stretch that will bring their offensive numbers up. We shall see.

What is UC's offensive tempo the last 4 games? As usual, Mick talks alot about improving the speed of the offense then as the season progresses he slows them down. By year end UC will be in the 230+ range. Micks inability to change combined with not recognizing he has a potential secret weapon in Cane Broome will likely cost UC the chance to be very special this year.

I would have preferred to see Mick allow this team to play faster and let Broome be the focal point at PG and live with the growing pains in hopes that by the end of the season they have gelled into an elite team. Sure it may cost them offensive efficiency early in the season by by year end they could have become something special.

Idk but if you would've asked me before the season I think I would have offered up @ Temple, SMU, @SMU, and @ UCF as being our least efficient offensive matchups. With 3 of those 4 already in the books (3 wins), I would agree with Mark that the boys are hopefully due for a hot shooting streak and we should see the offense start to figure it out. I predict Cane getting a lot of run the next month.

(01-19-2018 12:47 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 11:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  As far as UC's tempo (which has continued to drop), UC is actually playing a lot faster on offense this year. They are looking more for quick baskets than they have, then settle in when it is not there. They are only 310 in kenpom adjusted tempo, but that's largely due to the fact that they almost never get beat in transition on defense and don't give up easy baskets. Teams take a long time to do anything against UC (they are 310 in adjusted defensive tempo). They are exactly average in offensive tempo (173 kenpom). For comparison UC was 303 last year in offensive tempo, 236 the year before, 334 the year before that and 280 the year before that.

Of course last year's team that finished 303 in offensive tempo also finished 34 in adj offensive efficiency while this team is currently 57th... playing faster hasn't made them better at least on offense. That said, I think this team is due for a hot shooting stretch that will bring their offensive numbers up. We shall see.

What is UC's offensive tempo the last 4 games? As usual, Mick talks alot about improving the speed of the offense then as the season progresses he slows them down. By year end UC will be in the 230+ range. Micks inability to change combined with not recognizing he has a potential secret weapon in Cane Broome will likely cost UC the chance to be very special this year.

I would have preferred to see Mick allow this team to play faster and let Broome be the focal point at PG and live with the growing pains in hopes that by the end of the season they have gelled into an elite team. Sure it may cost them offensive efficiency early in the season by by year end they could have become something special.

God I agree so much with this post. Micks inability to evolve as a coach will be his downfall. And I totally agree with living with growing pains and having it pay off in March. I used to hate John calipari but I have grown to really like him while simultaneously rooting against UK. I love his interviews. He freely admits that he doesn’t care much about anything other than March. As long as the team is ready for March that’s all that matters. I think mick is the complete opposite. He seems to hate the spotlight. He’s retarding a clearly superior athletes growth to go with the safer option that grinds it out on every play. You can put any stat out there that you want. JJ is a Trent Dilfer, everyone knows exactly what you’ll get from him. But the problem is that in the NCAA tourney UC will not be playing temple, USF, UCF etc. If things go as planned they’ll get a protected seed, playing one maybe two lesser talented teams and then they run into teams that have equal or better talent. That’s what Broome needs to be prepared for because JJ will struggle against that type of talent.

(01-19-2018 11:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Of course last year's team that finished 303 in offensive tempo also finished 34 in adj offensive efficiency while this team is currently 57th... playing faster hasn't made them better at least on offense. That said, I think this team is due for a hot shooting stretch that will bring their offensive numbers up. We shall see.

That's a flaw of the KenPom method on tempo, offensive rebounds slow down tempo, but help eff.

KenPom tempo is a bad model imo, if you take 14 sec to shoot, you get the offensive rebound and then shoot again in 10 secs, KenPom says that instance is playing at a slower tempo than the team that shoots in 20 seconds but gives up defensive rebounds.

(01-20-2018 12:27 AM)ucbrownsfan Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 11:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Of course last year's team that finished 303 in offensive tempo also finished 34 in adj offensive efficiency while this team is currently 57th... playing faster hasn't made them better at least on offense. That said, I think this team is due for a hot shooting stretch that will bring their offensive numbers up. We shall see.

That's a flaw of the KenPom method on tempo, offensive rebounds slow down tempo, but help eff.

KenPom tempo is a bad model imo, if you take 14 sec to shoot, you get the offensive rebound and then shoot again in 10 secs, KenPom says that instance is playing at a slower tempo than the team that shoots in 20 seconds but gives up defensive rebounds.

you didn't just throw shade on Kenpom....to Bearcatmark no less?!?!?

i can't believe he's got all those damn blocks. that's unheard of to me