(01-19-2018 06:46 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Saint Mary's is a much different situation than Gonzaga. SMC is heavily reliant on their pipeline of Australian players, which probably can't be duplicated after Bennett retires. So, the next SMC head coach will almost be building from scratch, except that recent success there might give him a recruiting edge over most other mid-major programs.

All it would take is three down years for St. Mary's to morph into Southern Illinois or Detroit. Remember either of them? Neither do I other than that I'm a college basketball diehard.

Worse case scenario, they take a dive so far they become, as I've said numerous times, Mount St. Mary's. And that's wholly realistic. They could sustain it but nobody except an elite few can sustain winning long term and that's only because they fund it to death and demand success (Kentucky, UNC). Even Indiana and UCLA have struggled sustaining it.

(01-19-2018 11:47 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Davidson 83
St. Bonaventure 73

That's one way to thin the at-large pool.

The at-large pool is gonna thin so fast that it's gonna fatten up. There just are no good teams this year.

WCC has had its share of good runs and then fade-outs. Before Gonzaga was Santa Clara, and we shouldn't forget LMU. USF many moons ago.

LMU may have been better than the best Gonzaga squad. Their coach was an east coast guy recruiting street ballers, and before that tragic loss, LMU was a legit finalist squad. The school, rather than embrace their moment, bittersweet as it was, de-emphasized the program. It has been irrelevant ever since.

Wow, imagine that, they didn't want college basketball to overtake their institution over academics and religion. They should get a medal.

(01-20-2018 08:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  WCC has had its share of good runs and then fade-outs. Before Gonzaga was Santa Clara, and we shouldn't forget LMU. USF many moons ago.

LMU may have been better than the best Gonzaga squad. Their coach was an east coast guy recruiting street ballers, and before that tragic loss, LMU was a legit finalist squad. The school, rather than embrace their moment, bittersweet as it was, de-emphasized the program. It has been irrelevant ever since.

No WCC school has ever had the sustained success of Gonzaga over this long of a period of time other than San Francisco over 50 years ago. I don’t know what will happen when Few leaves but you can’t compare Gonzaga to other schools that have had two or three good seasons. This is almost 20 years of being an elite program.

Congrats UH diehards like C2 on the top 10 win 50 years to the day of winning the Game of the Century.

(01-20-2018 10:32 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 08:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  WCC has had its share of good runs and then fade-outs. Before Gonzaga was Santa Clara, and we shouldn't forget LMU. USF many moons ago.

LMU may have been better than the best Gonzaga squad. Their coach was an east coast guy recruiting street ballers, and before that tragic loss, LMU was a legit finalist squad. The school, rather than embrace their moment, bittersweet as it was, de-emphasized the program. It has been irrelevant ever since.

No WCC school has ever had the sustained success of Gonzaga over this long of a period of time other than San Francisco over 50 years ago. I don’t know what will happen when Few leaves but you can’t compare Gonzaga to other schools that have had two or three good seasons. This is almost 20 years of being an elite program.

Agreed. Makes no sense to compare Gonzaga's long run to flashes in the pan like 1989 Seton Hall or 2006 George Mason. If you want to compare Gonzaga to another program, compare them to a team that has been in the NCAA tournament 19 years in a row like the Zags.

(01-19-2018 05:22 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 04:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 01:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Heck, the same thing will probably happen at Gonzaga once Few is gone.

And at Duke when Coach K leaves, etc. Very, very few programs maintain their level of success over the long haul through coaching changes. (Gonzaga already has, once --
Few replaced Dan Monson, who cashed in after Gonzaga's Elite Eight in 1999 and made a career-killing move to Minnesota.)

Even those that eventually regain their past level (e.g. North Carolina, Arizona) often do so after a dip under the coach who immediately replaces the most successful coach.

I wouldn't say that Duke is a guarantee huge dip. Remember they had 4 final 4's in the 20 years before Coach K took over, to include 2 runner up finishes.

I'd say a far more likely dip is Syracuse when Boeheim leaves.

Cuse made a F4 under Roy Danforth and numerous under his assistant (Boeheim). Cuse is down right now solely due to NCAA Probation. They could be down but as a school that draws 23k+ fans, if attendance dips...I would hope they fire the predecessor quickly. The question is when Boeheim retires in 4-5 years...will Hopkins leave Washington?

(01-20-2018 10:32 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 08:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  WCC has had its share of good runs and then fade-outs. Before Gonzaga was Santa Clara, and we shouldn't forget LMU. USF many moons ago.

LMU may have been better than the best Gonzaga squad. Their coach was an east coast guy recruiting street ballers, and before that tragic loss, LMU was a legit finalist squad. The school, rather than embrace their moment, bittersweet as it was, de-emphasized the program. It has been irrelevant ever since.

No WCC school has ever had the sustained success of Gonzaga over this long of a period of time other than San Francisco over 50 years ago. I don’t know what will happen when Few leaves but you can’t compare Gonzaga to other schools that have had two or three good seasons. This is almost 20 years of being an elite program.

Eh, for most of that time, Gonzaga was just overachieving. This is evident by their long history of early NCAA Tournament exits. They'd sneak up on teams, both in their early Sweet 16 runs and early in the regular season many years. They played as a team and were disciplined, which helped them overcome their lack of high level talent.

Now they did have some choke moments but by and large, they just weren't that great, at least when compared to other true elite programs. Their lottery picks over the years didn't pan out, though some are still in the early stages. And for this discussion, John Stockton doesn't count. Even their very best teams, the Adam Morrison teams (yes, even better than their finalist last year), we're good but not great, at least when compared to the best teams in the history of the game.

So Gonzaga has certain numbers, like their Tournament streak that makes you think they're elite but they aren't in many respects. They've had a really good run. It's fair to say they've both overachieved and underachieved over the years.

(01-20-2018 02:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 10:32 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 08:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  WCC has had its share of good runs and then fade-outs. Before Gonzaga was Santa Clara, and we shouldn't forget LMU. USF many moons ago.

LMU may have been better than the best Gonzaga squad. Their coach was an east coast guy recruiting street ballers, and before that tragic loss, LMU was a legit finalist squad. The school, rather than embrace their moment, bittersweet as it was, de-emphasized the program. It has been irrelevant ever since.

No WCC school has ever had the sustained success of Gonzaga over this long of a period of time other than San Francisco over 50 years ago. I don’t know what will happen when Few leaves but you can’t compare Gonzaga to other schools that have had two or three good seasons. This is almost 20 years of being an elite program.

Agreed. Makes no sense to compare Gonzaga's long run to flashes in the pan like 1989 Seton Hall or 2006 George Mason. If you want to compare Gonzaga to another program, compare them to a team that has been in the NCAA tournament 19 years in a row like the Zags.

You need not look any further than one of their conference mates. Gonzaga is the modern day San Francisco. They're a rich man's Tulsa. Or if you want, Princeton.

(01-20-2018 02:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 10:32 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 08:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  WCC has had its share of good runs and then fade-outs. Before Gonzaga was Santa Clara, and we shouldn't forget LMU. USF many moons ago.

LMU may have been better than the best Gonzaga squad. Their coach was an east coast guy recruiting street ballers, and before that tragic loss, LMU was a legit finalist squad. The school, rather than embrace their moment, bittersweet as it was, de-emphasized the program. It has been irrelevant ever since.

No WCC school has ever had the sustained success of Gonzaga over this long of a period of time other than San Francisco over 50 years ago. I don’t know what will happen when Few leaves but you can’t compare Gonzaga to other schools that have had two or three good seasons. This is almost 20 years of being an elite program.

Agreed. Makes no sense to compare Gonzaga's long run to flashes in the pan like 1989 Seton Hall or 2006 George Mason. If you want to compare Gonzaga to another program, compare them to a team that has been in the NCAA tournament 19 years in a row like the Zags.

Well, it's a good thing I'm not comparing Gonzaga's sustained success to LMU's then. Just saying that I think the '90 LMU team probably would have run all over any/all of Few's Gonzaga teams.

And it's nothing against Gonzaga. The WCC has seen its share of good squads. Nobody's done it as good this long, and that's where Gonzaga is truly special. But, USF has championship banners, and LMU has/had scoring records. It's not a secret the conference has had some good basketball moments in its history. Gonzaga doesn't own all of the greatness.

I do fear, however, given the power structure and media consolidation in college sports toward select conferences that there may not be much for the WCC after Gonzaga. What I truly miss about basketball from when I started watching was how networks followed the good teams, and able to follow the season more freely. With the media deals in place, the cameras don't scout like they used to. Non-majors, good or not, play in a silo more now than ever. It's hard to recruit with that held against you. Gonzaga's had to earn the networks' attention...if Few walks away after this season, I think the cameras would, too.

I doubt it, they'll be followed as long as they're good.

(01-21-2018 07:26 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 02:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 10:32 AM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 08:57 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  WCC has had its share of good runs and then fade-outs. Before Gonzaga was Santa Clara, and we shouldn't forget LMU. USF many moons ago.

LMU may have been better than the best Gonzaga squad. Their coach was an east coast guy recruiting street ballers, and before that tragic loss, LMU was a legit finalist squad. The school, rather than embrace their moment, bittersweet as it was, de-emphasized the program. It has been irrelevant ever since.

No WCC school has ever had the sustained success of Gonzaga over this long of a period of time other than San Francisco over 50 years ago. I don’t know what will happen when Few leaves but you can’t compare Gonzaga to other schools that have had two or three good seasons. This is almost 20 years of being an elite program.

Agreed. Makes no sense to compare Gonzaga's long run to flashes in the pan like 1989 Seton Hall or 2006 George Mason. If you want to compare Gonzaga to another program, compare them to a team that has been in the NCAA tournament 19 years in a row like the Zags.

Well, it's a good thing I'm not comparing Gonzaga's sustained success to LMU's then. Just saying that I think the '90 LMU team probably would have run all over any/all of Few's Gonzaga teams.

And it's nothing against Gonzaga. The WCC has seen its share of good squads. Nobody's done it as good this long, and that's where Gonzaga is truly special. But, USF has championship banners, and LMU has/had scoring records. It's not a secret the conference has had some good basketball moments in its history. Gonzaga doesn't own all of the greatness.

I do fear, however, given the power structure and media consolidation in college sports toward select conferences that there may not be much for the WCC after Gonzaga. What I truly miss about basketball from when I started watching was how networks followed the good teams, and able to follow the season more freely. With the media deals in place, the cameras don't scout like they used to. Non-majors, good or not, play in a silo more now than ever. It's hard to recruit with that held against you. Gonzaga's had to earn the networks' attention...if Few walks away after this season, I think the cameras would, too.

That LMU team with Bo Kimble leading them after the Hank Gathers tragedy was extremely good. What they did in the first 3 Tournament games was extremely impressive. They blewoiut and ran Michigan out of the gym. But then the elite 8 came and with it, The UNLV Rnnin Rebels who destroyed them. Gonzaga has had several better teams over the 20 years than that LMU team IMO.