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the acquisition of this new staff seems cautious if not half assed but most likely the best approach?

(01-21-2019 09:09 AM)Lush Wrote:  the acquisition of this new staff seems cautious if not half assed but most likely the best approach?

It would seem they are trying to get out of the basement to: a) increase fan interest/put more butts in seats; and b), try to win a wild card spot without breaking the bank and trading away our best prospects. Our division is brutal with Cubs, Brewers, and Redbirds so even a wild card spot will be tough. However, we have the closer and offense (in particular with the added bat of Puig) already set so any improvement in starting pitching will warrant more wins. Will it be enough? Who knows but I respect the organization for not staying in status quo mode. If this "rolling of the dice" fails miserably then they have some assets to trade before the all star break.

i hear ya '92. i always figured all these rentals were stop gaps until a few of the youngsters materialize

The deal for Gray is complete, including a three-year extension.

Reds get:
RHP Sonny Gray
LHP Reiver Sanmartin

Yankees get:
2B Shed Long
Compensatory draft pick

Yankees subsequently shipped Shed Long off the Mariners for OF Josh Stowers.

Here's some info on Sanmartin:

Sanmartin, 22, held a 2.81 ERA and 58/4 K/BB ratio over 67 1/3 innings across four levels in the Yankees' system last season. He has mostly been used as a starter in pro ball but could ultimately profile better in relief.

(01-21-2019 05:17 PM)crex043 Wrote:  Here's some info on Sanmartin:

Sanmartin, 22, held a 2.81 ERA and 58/4 K/BB ratio over 67 1/3 innings across four levels in the Yankees' system last season. He has mostly been used as a starter in pro ball but could ultimately profile better in relief.

Damn that is good news! We get Gray with a contract extension and throw in a 22 year old lefty that can come out of the pen potentially. With these latest additions I am actually getting pumped up for the season to start. Where's my Reds cap....

(01-21-2019 05:28 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 05:17 PM)crex043 Wrote:  Here's some info on Sanmartin:

Sanmartin, 22, held a 2.81 ERA and 58/4 K/BB ratio over 67 1/3 innings across four levels in the Yankees' system last season. He has mostly been used as a starter in pro ball but could ultimately profile better in relief.

Damn that is good news! We get Gray with a contract extension and throw in a 22 year old lefty that can come out of the pen potentially. With these latest additions I am actually getting pumped up for the season to start. Where's my Reds cap....

Wow, great deal! It felt like the Reds were overpaying when it looked it was Shed a draft pick and maybe even another prospect for 1 year of Gray. But Gray with a 3 year extension (not sure if that counts this coming year as he was already signed), no extra prospect going their way, but a lefty reliever with Sammartin's numbers coming our way? I am completely on board with that!

(01-21-2019 06:04 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 05:28 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 05:17 PM)crex043 Wrote:  Here's some info on Sanmartin:

Sanmartin, 22, held a 2.81 ERA and 58/4 K/BB ratio over 67 1/3 innings across four levels in the Yankees' system last season. He has mostly been used as a starter in pro ball but could ultimately profile better in relief.

Damn that is good news! We get Gray with a contract extension and throw in a 22 year old lefty that can come out of the pen potentially. With these latest additions I am actually getting pumped up for the season to start. Where's my Reds cap....

Wow, great deal! It felt like the Reds were overpaying when it looked it was Shed a draft pick and maybe even another prospect for 1 year of Gray. But Gray with a 3 year extension (not sure if that counts this coming year as he was already signed), no extra prospect going their way, but a lefty reliever with Sammartin's numbers coming our way? I am completely on board with that!

They would have definitely been overpaying if Tyler Stephenson was included in any way shape or form. But he was not, and draft picks aren't difficult to overcome, especially with the number of picks received and some of the creative maneuvering done in the back end of the draft.

Gray's extension is in addition to this year, and includes a mutual option for an additional year. So he is a Red for the next four to five years.

(01-21-2019 07:48 PM)crex043 Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 06:04 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 05:28 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 05:17 PM)crex043 Wrote:  Here's some info on Sanmartin:

Sanmartin, 22, held a 2.81 ERA and 58/4 K/BB ratio over 67 1/3 innings across four levels in the Yankees' system last season. He has mostly been used as a starter in pro ball but could ultimately profile better in relief.

Damn that is good news! We get Gray with a contract extension and throw in a 22 year old lefty that can come out of the pen potentially. With these latest additions I am actually getting pumped up for the season to start. Where's my Reds cap....

Wow, great deal! It felt like the Reds were overpaying when it looked it was Shed a draft pick and maybe even another prospect for 1 year of Gray. But Gray with a 3 year extension (not sure if that counts this coming year as he was already signed), no extra prospect going their way, but a lefty reliever with Sammartin's numbers coming our way? I am completely on board with that!

They would have definitely been overpaying if Tyler Stephenson was included in any way shape or form. But he was not, and draft picks aren't difficult to overcome, especially with the number of picks received and some of the creative maneuvering done in the back end of the draft.

Gray's extension is in addition to this year and includes a mutual option for an additional year. So he is a Red for the next four to five years.

It's a pretty reasonable contract for Gray even if he ends up as more of an innings eater than a TOR guy. Now if he recaptures some of his past success outside of Yankee stadium it's a flat out steal. Of course, the other alternative is he bombs, but at least the contract won't be a complete anchor if that happens. But that's the risk with any player, especially a pitcher. I think he is an excellent candidate to take this level of risk on.

As far as Sanmartin goes, in addition to his astounding control and thus K/BB ratio, he's also been doing an excellent job of keeping the ball in the ballpark giving up only .3 HRs / 9 IP over his 4-year minor league career. That could be a huge asset in GABP.

I'm not quite as ambivalent about losing the draft pick as you may be. Those compensation picks can turn out really well especially if you have extra slot money to give him from having one of the very top picks in the draft. That's how the Reds got Taylor Trammel for example. But the Reds most likely will be paying close to slot with their 1st rounder which means they'd probably also be paying close to slot to that compensation pick. And even though that's still pretty high in the draft (36th overall in this case iirc) the track record of slot guys in that range turning into impact players is pretty rare (of course there are exceptions.)

But bottom line is there were several other suitors for Gray if the Yankees are to be believed and you've got to give up something to get something. In this case, I'm still thrilled with what we got compared to what it cost us (in prospect/$/draft)

Question Reds fans...what changed for the organization to make these recent moves? I haven't really come across anything that I can remember. I'm still a bit shocked (pleasantly I might add) that status quo is no longer the mode of operation. Did ownership/upper management finally see that the growing deficit of competitiveness/success between the top three Brew Crew, Cubs, and Redbirds and the Reds was nearing a point of no return? Did last year's "mini-run win streak" open their eyes with the potential of the offense and the need to upgrade the pitching as a recipe for immediate success? Was it seeing the long term impacts of a one-third filled GABP? All of the above? Other reasons?

Honestly, I think the Reds realized their business was dying. The recent trend has been for teams to strip all assets to try to win big. Problem is if people know you're not making a reasonable effort to be competitive they tune out. Years later they haven't had the success needed to turn it around with young players so they needed to but a respectable team out there. The last time they entered a season with any hope was 2014. You can't go 5 years without people being engaged in your product.

I'm not being critical of the moves. I think they've put together an interesting team without mortgaging any significant long term assets and entering into any long term commitments. They needed to give people a reason to watch and I think they've done that.

(01-21-2019 09:52 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  Honestly, I think the Reds realized their business was dying. The recent trend has been for teams to strip all assets to try to win big. Problem is if people know you're not making a reasonable effort to be competitive they tune out. Years later they haven't had the success needed to turn it around with young players so they needed to but a respectable team out there. The last time they entered a season with any hope was 2014. You can't go 5 years without people being engaged in your product.

I'm not being critical of the moves. I think they've put together an interesting team without mortgaging any significant long term assets and entering into any long term commitments. They needed to give people a reason to watch and I think they've done that.

100% agree with this

(01-21-2019 09:53 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 09:52 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  Honestly, I think the Reds realized their business was dying. The recent trend has been for teams to strip all assets to try to win big. Problem is if people know you're not making a reasonable effort to be competitive they tune out. Years later they haven't had the success needed to turn it around with young players so they needed to but a respectable team out there. The last time they entered a season with any hope was 2014. You can't go 5 years without people being engaged in your product.

I'm not being critical of the moves. I think they've put together an interesting team without mortgaging any significant long term assets and entering into any long term commitments. They needed to give people a reason to watch and I think they've done that.

100% agree with this

x2.

Bob's not getting any younger.

Plus, when half the league is tanking, it doesn't take many moves to get into the wild card game and roll the dice.

(01-21-2019 05:17 PM)crex043 Wrote:  Here's some info on Sanmartin:

Sanmartin, 22, held a 2.81 ERA and 58/4 K/BB ratio over 67 1/3 innings across four levels in the Yankees' system last season. He has mostly been used as a starter in pro ball but could ultimately profile better in relief.

he was destined to the pen

(01-21-2019 09:21 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Question Reds fans...what changed for the organization to make these recent moves? I haven't really come across anything that I can remember. I'm still a bit shocked (pleasantly I might add) that status quo is no longer the mode of operation. Did ownership/upper management finally see that the growing deficit of competitiveness/success between the top three Brew Crew, Cubs, and Redbirds and the Reds was nearing a point of no return? Did last year's "mini-run win streak" open their eyes with the potential of the offense and the need to upgrade the pitching as a recipe for immediate success? Was it seeing the long term impacts of a one-third filled GABP? All of the above? Other reasons?

One very simple thing happened to change the Reds thinking and that is FCC! Now that FCC is in the MLS the attendance will continue to rise and take fans away from GABP and hurt attendance for the Reds!

(01-21-2019 09:53 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-21-2019 09:52 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  Honestly, I think the Reds realized their business was dying. The recent trend has been for teams to strip all assets to try to win big. Problem is if people know you're not making a reasonable effort to be competitive they tune out. Years later they haven't had the success needed to turn it around with young players so they needed to but a respectable team out there. The last time they entered a season with any hope was 2014. You can't go 5 years without people being engaged in your product.

I'm not being critical of the moves. I think they've put together an interesting team without mortgaging any significant long term assets and entering into any long term commitments. They needed to give people a reason to watch and I think they've done that.

100% agree with this

man i hope that's not the case. it seems to me if you're a fan you'll cheer for the team during the rebuild because you know it's necessary. i really don't see how you can compete if you don't rebuild. it probably should bug me since i loved the way the game was played. everyone was familiar with all their terrible players and that's just the way it was. why ruin a good thing?

(01-21-2019 09:21 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Question Reds fans...what changed for the organization to make these recent moves? I haven't really come across anything that I can remember. I'm still a bit shocked (pleasantly I might add) that status quo is no longer the mode of operation. Did ownership/upper management finally see that the growing deficit of competitiveness/success between the top three Brew Crew, Cubs, and Redbirds and the Reds was nearing a point of no return? Did last year's "mini-run win streak" open their eyes with the potential of the offense and the need to upgrade the pitching as a recipe for immediate success? Was it seeing the long term impacts of a one-third filled GABP? All of the above? Other reasons?

have they done things any different? i always assumed they were going to make moves

Potential Reds Rotation
1. Wood
2. Roark
3. Castillo
4. Gray
5. Disco/Mahle

Potential Lineup
1. Peraza - SS
2. Votto - 1B
3. Suarez - 3B
4. Puig - RF
5. Gennett - 2B
6. Kemp/Winker - LF
7. Schebler - CF
8. Barnhart - C
9. Pitcher

(01-22-2019 10:05 AM)RuckleSt Wrote:  Potential Reds Rotation
1. Wood
2. Roark
3. Castillo
4. Gray
5. Disco/Mahle

Potential Lineup
1. Peraza - SS
2. Votto - 1B
3. Suarez - 3B
4. Puig - RF
5. Gennett - 2B
6. Kemp/Winker - LF
7. Schebler - CF
8. Barnhart - C
9. Pitcher

Didn't we get a catcher from LA?