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Programs that are sleeping giants
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
One thing not mentioned here:

Enrollment numbers

Liberty 110,000 (assuming this includes online, but means $$$)

Grand Canyon 71,000

UCF 69,000

FIU 60,000

Given time each of these has a chance.
02-04-2018 01:23 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.
02-04-2018 02:11 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 01:04 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Texas st !

Great OCS (actually drool worthy OCS), huge traditional student population too.

The only problem.....ooooh the product. Its bad....really bad. 4-29 against FBS in the last 3 years. And a bad football coach. JMU easily went to the tip top of FCS with his players.

Men's basketball...hasn't been to the dance in 20 years. Facilities are awful too.
02-04-2018 02:15 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 01:23 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  One thing not mentioned here:

Enrollment numbers

Liberty 110,000 (assuming this includes online, but means $$$)

Grand Canyon 71,000

UCF 69,000

FIU 60,000

Given time each of these has a chance.

Liberty's on campus enrollment....15,000 students.
Grand Canyon Education, Incorporated's on campus enrollment...19,500 of which many are non-traditional

Liberty is not going to be the next Notre Dame. They're not going to be the next BYU either. They're just going to spend 400 million bucks in 10 years to be a sub-Sun Belt level program. They're not getting in a conference. They're not going to have a bowl agreement. They also have a bad football coach that doesn't appear to be retained based upon wins and losses. BYU, which 'won' a friggin' national championship has significant problems staying relevant as an indy. And they, like LU, supposedly claim the loyalty of a large national fanbase (but BYU actually retains some of that claimed support). Liberty will face the same problems. Heck, a couple of bowls collapse and LU might be in a position where even if they cobble together 7 or so wins, that they'll end up staying home. Its instructive that conferences from the Southern Conference, to the Colonial, to the Sun Belt have zero interest in adding them. And what happens if in 2021 or so, there's a change in the student loan program that cuts off access to the loan program in the case of higher than average defaults in distance learning programs by major or study field? Or the NCAA introduces a non-discrimination policy? Sure, lightning could strike. But they'll always have to spend (a LOT) more for less. Not sure that it is really going to work out in the long run.

Grand Canyon Education, Incorporated is stuck in the worst D1 conference for a reason. Their basketball is actually credible at a lower mid-major level. But scheduling is a problem. Terrible scheduling = very bad opportunities to get a NCAA bid. And the WAC could end up falling apart and GCEI could end up with no access to the NCAA dance. And watch out for stricter default rate scrutiny on long distance learning too.

Sure,

UCF and FIU...yep, those have a shot. UCF much more so than FIU. The problem with FIU is that they have a greater non-traditional enrollment and they have a large student population that doesn't come from a football heritage. And then there's the Dolphins and Da U.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2018 02:40 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-04-2018 02:17 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.
02-04-2018 02:27 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.

using that metric...I'll throw out a program that has more resources than anyone else, but just hasn't been able to figure out how to apply them.....

Texas A&M
02-04-2018 02:39 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 02:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  There are no sleeping giants in football. Other than the Florida schools, the teams at the top are the same teams you would see in the late 60s and early 70s.

Basketball where you only use 7-8 players is different.

Exactly. You have to reserve the term "Giant" for a team that has a chance to be a dominant force at the top level of football.

Probably the last prescient example of that was Bear Bryant's circa-1970 comment to the effect that if "they ever got their act together" down in Gainesville, Florida could be a dominant team.

There's nothing like that out there now.

using that metric...I'll throw out a program that has more resources than anyone else, but just hasn't been able to figure out how to apply them.....

Texas A&M

Yes but, TAMU is clearly a major player in the college football world. In the past 20 years, they've played in 4 Cotton Bowls and a Sugar Bowl. They are regularly ranked in the top 25, etc.

Given their resources, they are underachievers, sure. But i wouldn't call them "sleeping", which IMO implies a moribund program that is pretty much nowhere right now.

So shoot me for nit-picking all of this, LOL.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2018 02:49 PM by quo vadis.)
02-04-2018 02:48 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 12:13 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Miami. There's a reason we're historically the best football and basketball school in the MAC, our academics/campus/alumni wealth are unparalleled among conference peers while the 'Miami Valley' market (north Cincy suburbs up to Dayton) is ours for the taking again after we abandoned it when we decided to suck the last decade-plus in both revenue sports. We're still picking up the pieces from the mess our old AD left, but basketball is really turning around and football is no longer a doormat (it's just a matter of coaching at this point).

Not that MiamI University, the "U"niversity of Miami.
02-04-2018 03:04 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
(02-04-2018 02:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-04-2018 01:04 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Texas st !

Great OCS (actually drool worthy OCS), huge traditional student population too.

The only problem.....ooooh the product. Its bad....really bad. 4-29 against FBS in the last 3 years. And a bad football coach. JMU easily went to the tip top of FCS with his players.

Men's basketball...hasn't been to the dance in 20 years. Facilities are awful too.

Houston is what Texas State would be.
02-04-2018 03:10 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Programs that are sleeping giants
Or Texas Tech...

There's only so much room at the inn, even in a large state like Texas.
02-04-2018 03:11 PM
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