Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
Author Message
Kaplony Offline
Palmetto State Deplorable
*

Posts: 18,125
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 1520
I Root For: Newberry
Location: SC
Post: #1
Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/02/08/...-says.html

Quote:The rockets used in the recent chemical attacks in Syria that poisoned dozens of civilians, including children, were “Made in Germany,” Bild reports.





Following the attacks in East Ghouta, a suburb outside Damascus with a population of 400,000, the remains of Iranian 107-millimeter rockets with the company logo of Krempel and the product signature “Made in Germany” were found at the sites, Bild reported Monday.

The chlorine attacks, which happened January 22 and February 1 and rescue workers say were launched by Syrian President Bashar Assad’s regime, came after the German government’s Federal Office for Economic Affairs and Export Control (BAFA) green-lighted a deal for the company Krempel, located near the southern city of Stuttgart, to sell military applicable technology to two Iranian firms in Tehran, the paper reported.

Quote:Rainer Westermann, a consultant for Krempel, confirmed to Fox News the sale of the technology “Pressspan PSP-3040,” an insulating material with a cellulose base, to the Iranian companies. The “Made in Germany” technology was discovered by the Syrian photographer Firas Abdullah at the site of the chemical attack.

The two Krempel business partners in Iran are Reza Moghaddam Panah and Mahmood Hasan Darvish Commerce. Krempel engaged in a yearly business of $184,000 with the Iranian companies.

It is unclear if the Iranian companies are owned by Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). The U.S. government classified the IRGC as a terrorist entity in October.

Quote:Westermann said Krempel obtained a letter from the German export control agency (BAFA) in January 2015 stating there was no restriction for delivering the material to Iran.

Krempel, which has a U.S. distribution center, said the company has “frozen” business with the two Iranian companies until BAFA clarifies the situation. Westermann said the company is “shocked” that its material was used in chemical warfare. He said, however, that if Krempel cuts ties with its Iranian companies other businesses will deliver goods to Iran.

Quote:The documentary filmmaker Potkin Azarmehr, who made the film “Breathing Death—Chemical Weapon,” told Fox News that “It seems Germans never learn from the past. This will be another dark chapter in their history, starting with the Nazi extermination camps, selling chemical weapons to [Iraqi President] Saddam [Hussein] and now playing a role in the atrocities against innocent civilians in Syria.”

Germany’s BAFA office sent a statement to Fox News flatly denying the Bild report that BAFA approved Pressspan PSP-3040 as a dual-use technology, which can be used for military and civilian purposes. BAFA wrote that the delivery of the Krempel goods deals with a “standard material that can be inserted, among other things, in electric machines.”

Julian Röpcke, the political editor and Syria expert who authored the story for Bild, told Fox News that BAFA’s statement has “major shortcomings.”

He said, “While the statement claims that there are no indications the materials -- allowed by BAFA to be exported to Iran -- could be used in the construction of rockets or be further exported to be used ‘in connection with chemical weapons,’ reality on the ground proved quite the opposite."

Röpcke added, “Instead of acknowledging that the German-built parts were used in Iranian rockets to gas children in Syria, BAFA stuck to its standard manual, alleging that the exported product was ‘neither in military good nor a dual-use good’ -- just as if there were no new developments which entirely contradict that claim.”

Quote:Fox News reported in October that a German intelligence report lists Iran as a nation that engages in proliferation, which is defined as “spreading atomic, biological or chemical weapons of mass destruction.”

Iran made nearly 40 attempts in 2016 to obtain nuclear and missile technology in Germany, according to domestic intelligence reports in Germany.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s administration referred a Fox News press inquiry to BAFA’s statement.

Quote:The German-based NGO Stop the Bomb on Wednesday called on Chancellor Merkel to confront the Islamic Republic’s jingoism. “The Iranian regime must face consequences for its policy of terror abroad,” wrote Stop the Bomb. The human rights group urged Merkel to expel Iran’s ambassador to Germany and slash all funds for Iran’s regime.

Germany finances the Islamic Community of Shiite Communities since 2016 with more than nearly $503,000 from EU and federal funds, said Stop the Bomb, adding that the German government “supports the association despite the fact that they know that the chairman of the organization belongs to the political-religious establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran.”
02-08-2018 02:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

Lord Stanley Offline
L'Étoile du Nord
*

Posts: 16,687
Joined: Feb 2005
Reputation: 743
I Root For: NIU
Location: Cold. So cold......
Post: #2
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
What bright-light in marketing though it was a good idea to put the company name and where it was made on rocket? What was the thought? That someone just bombed would pick-up a casing and say "hey, this is a great product where can I get me some? Ah, Kremple in Germany!"

Dopes.
02-08-2018 02:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GrayBeard Offline
Whiny Troll
*

Posts: 28,732
Joined: Nov 2003
Reputation: 587
I Root For: My Kids & ECU
Location: 2,848 Miles From ECU

Crappies
Post: #3
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
Time to bomb Germany!
02-08-2018 02:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
memphistiger89 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,685
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 148
I Root For: Memphis Tigers
Location: Salem, IN
Post: #4
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
Old habits die hard.
02-08-2018 05:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

58-56 Offline
Blazer Revolutionary
*

Posts: 11,442
Joined: Mar 2006
Reputation: 470
I Root For: Fire Ray Watts
Location: CathedraloftheDragon

BlazerTalk Award
Post: #5
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
(02-08-2018 02:28 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What bright-light in marketing though it was a good idea to put the company name and where it was made on rocket? What was the thought? That someone just bombed would pick-up a casing and say "hey, this is a great product where can I get me some? Ah, Kremple in Germany!"

Dopes.

Probably more or less what happened. It was Kolb GmbH who supplied Saddam with chemical weapons in the 80's:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germ...14722.html

I apologize for the German participation in the Kurdish genocide. The
trade of German companies with Saddam’s regime was an illegal act.
They should not have done that. Germany has to tell the people of
Kurdistan that it was a mistake. Gassing Halabja took place with the help
of German companies.
―Claudia Roth, co-Chair, German Green Party, July 4, 2012
02-08-2018 05:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
I45owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,861
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 172
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Dallas, TX

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #6
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
(02-08-2018 02:28 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What bright-light in marketing though it was a good idea to put the company name and where it was made on rocket? What was the thought? That someone just bombed would pick-up a casing and say "hey, this is a great product where can I get me some? Ah, Kremple in Germany!"

Dopes.

They manufacture plastics. Arguably, it's very unlikely they had any knowledge of how this material would be used, though it's possible that something more sinister is in play.

Home - KREMPEL GmbH
Quote:Just to be safe. The KREMPEL-GROUP is an independent producer of electrical insulation materials, solar materials, composite materials and electronic materials. With 67 agencies, 1,200 employees and 11 factories, we have an international presence which guarantees fast service on the spot.

Special Laminates - KREMPEL GmbH
Quote:Release liner Surface TEDLAR has excellent mechanical and anti-stick properties and is almost inert in the presence of acids, bases and the majority of solvents. All of which makes it the ideal release liner for epoxy and phenolic resins and for polyester and rubber compounds. Unlike other release agents, TEDLAR does not contain any plasticizers that could leach unintentionally into the substrate.

By way of comparison, there are probably dozens of American manufacturers of military ordinance that can be linked to attacks on civilians in Yemen using conventional arms. And the death toll is orders of magnitude larger than the death toll from chemical weapons in Syria, as abhorrent as the use of chemical weapons are. Both actions are genocidal in nature...

Is it morally worse for a company to unwittingly supply arms that are used to commit genocide, or for a company that knowingly does so?

Is it morally worse for a country to interact with another country that is complicit in prohibited arms than it is for one that kills civilians by other means?
02-08-2018 05:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
58-56 Offline
Blazer Revolutionary
*

Posts: 11,442
Joined: Mar 2006
Reputation: 470
I Root For: Fire Ray Watts
Location: CathedraloftheDragon

BlazerTalk Award
Post: #7
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
(02-08-2018 05:57 PM)I45owl Wrote:  
(02-08-2018 02:28 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What bright-light in marketing though it was a good idea to put the company name and where it was made on rocket? What was the thought? That someone just bombed would pick-up a casing and say "hey, this is a great product where can I get me some? Ah, Kremple in Germany!"

Dopes.

They manufacture plastics. Arguably, it's very unlikely they had any knowledge of how this material would be used, though it's possible that something more sinister is in play.

Home - KREMPEL GmbH
Quote:Just to be safe. The KREMPEL-GROUP is an independent producer of electrical insulation materials, solar materials, composite materials and electronic materials. With 67 agencies, 1,200 employees and 11 factories, we have an international presence which guarantees fast service on the spot.

Special Laminates - KREMPEL GmbH
Quote:Release liner Surface TEDLAR has excellent mechanical and anti-stick properties and is almost inert in the presence of acids, bases and the majority of solvents. All of which makes it the ideal release liner for epoxy and phenolic resins and for polyester and rubber compounds. Unlike other release agents, TEDLAR does not contain any plasticizers that could leach unintentionally into the substrate.

By way of comparison, there are probably dozens of American manufacturers of military ordinance that can be linked to attacks on civilians in Yemen using conventional arms. And the death toll is orders of magnitude larger than the death toll from chemical weapons in Syria, as abhorrent as the use of chemical weapons are. Both actions are genocidal in nature...

Is it morally worse for a company to unwittingly supply arms that are used to commit genocide, or for a company that knowingly does so?

Is it morally worse for a country to interact with another country that is complicit in prohibited arms than it is for one that kills civilians by other means?

"Genocide" has a very specific meaning; it's not a synonym for mass murder. Neither Syria or Yemen is a genocide. That doesn't make it ok.

In this specific case, Germany (the old West Germany, carried over to current law) laid on very strict export controls on anything that can be used to create chemical weapons (including casings, delivery systems etc.) in 1984 after the Iraqis used them on the Iranians, and tightened them even more in 1990 after the use on the Kurds. It covers cut-outs and pass-alongs, too.

The moral argument is strong, but Krempel likely broke German law as well.
02-08-2018 06:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply

I45owl Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,861
Joined: Jun 2005
Reputation: 172
I Root For: Rice Owls
Location: Dallas, TX

New Orleans Bowl
Post: #8
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
(02-08-2018 06:27 PM)58-56 Wrote:  "Genocide" has a very specific meaning; it's not a synonym for mass murder. Neither Syria or Yemen is a genocide. That doesn't make it ok.
In this specific case, Germany (the old West Germany, carried over to current law) laid on very strict export controls on anything that can be used to create chemical weapons (including casings, delivery systems etc.) in 1984 after the Iraqis used them on the Iranians, and tightened them even more in 1990 after the use on the Kurds. It covers cut-outs and pass-alongs, too.
The moral argument is strong, but Krempel likely broke German law as well.

You address whether nuances in the law are applicable. I don't know enough about the chemistry or industrial use of the plastics in question, but "anything that can be used" can apply to an awful lot of things. If plastics were outlawed, it's probably that mason jars could be used to deploy chemical weapons. It is conceivable that the only practical use of their plastics is to build chemical weapons, but it's probably more likely that they have a broad use that includes oilfield chemicals and equipment.

My point is that the moral outrage seems highly narrow and selective... if you don't want to enable Iranian/Syrian genocide, then don't allow any commercial interaction with those countries... if you do, who knows how products will be used.

As for genocide...

Genocide | Definition of Genocide by Merriam-Webster
Quote:Definition of genocide : the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

If you don't think that either the Syrian/Iranian actions against Sunni Syrian Arabs or the Saudi action against Shia Houthis are genocide, then I really wonder how it is that you apply something that is really a very, clear, precise, specific, accurate description.

Emigres are leaving Syria for one fundamental reason ... Syria is doing everything they can to ethnically cleanse its nation in order to restore order for its Shia population.
02-08-2018 07:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Kaplony Offline
Palmetto State Deplorable
*

Posts: 18,125
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 1520
I Root For: Newberry
Location: SC
Post: #9
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
If you aren't intelligent enough to know the difference between collateral damage from conventional weapons in a sanctioned strike against a insurgency and the deliberate targeting of a civilian population with chemical weapons for the sole purpose of killing them then I can't help you.
02-08-2018 08:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
shere khan Offline
AAC Troll Emeritus
*

Posts: 31,522
Joined: Mar 2004
Reputation: 2144
I Root For: Memphis
Location: Reverie, Tenn
Post: #10
RE: Syria chemical attack rockets ‘Made in Germany,’ report says
(02-08-2018 02:28 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  What bright-light in marketing though it was a good idea to put the company name and where it was made on rocket? What was the thought? That someone just bombed would pick-up a casing and say "hey, this is a great product where can I get me some? Ah, Kremple in Germany!"

Dopes.

Has the press blamed Merkel? Im surprised they havent blamed Trump.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2018 09:09 PM by shere khan.)
02-08-2018 09:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.