(02-14-2018 11:29 PM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  I hope as a country we stop and take a look at what kind of moral values we are passing on to the next generation. We should value life and love our fellow man.

This is a terrible situation and this is all I will say.

(02-15-2018 12:49 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  You don't owe me a thing for educating you tonight. Please forward any rebuttals to my secretary BC#1 who's currently on leave. I won't be reading any more bleeding heart liberal trash tonight while the blood of our children has not yet even dried on the classroom floor. If I do I may forget my manners...


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Except your education began with assuring us that the gun was obtained illegally. Which was wrong.

And, yeah. Let's not talk about the issue. Thoughts and prayers are all we need until it blows over. Until the next one.

(02-15-2018 12:43 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1912...ince-1990/



https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

Quote:Public Unaware that Homicide Rates Have Fallen

As Pew has reported in recent years, in fact, the American public is "unaware" that the homicide rate in the United States has fallen by 49 percent over the past twenty years. And while Pew doesn't report on it, it's also a safe bet that the public is also unaware that homicide rates have collapsed as total gun ownership in the United States has increased significantly.

Over a recent 20 year period, the number of new guns in the US that were either manufactured in the US or imported into the US increased 141 percent from 6.6 million new guns in 1994 to 16 million in 2013. That means a gross total of 132 million new guns were added into the US population over that time period.

https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

Quote:So, do more guns equal more crime? The data would seem to indicate the answer is "obviously not." (For more on this, see here.)

Naturally, these facts are steadfastly ignored by people who can't do basic arithmetic, like the constitutional law Professor David S. Cohen who wrote Monday at Rolling Stone that the second Amendment must be repealed because it is "a threat to liberty" and a "suicide pact."

Cohen's argument rests largely on the idea that gun violence it out of control and that guns are different now than they were in the 18th century. One cannot argue with the former part. But are guns significantly different today from what they were twenty years ago? Clearly, the answer to that is no, and given that homicide rates have plummeted since then, Cohen needs to explain why repealing the second Amendment is advisable when increases in gun ownership have coincided with declines in homicides.

Educate yourself. Read a book. Fight libtardism.


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Sigh, it's like you don't pay attention. I told you the crime rate peaked in the 1990s, has it since come down below 1960s levels, yes. But it went up from the 1960s till the 1990s.

Also while crime may be dropping in the States you are vastly safer in any other modern democracy because the rate is still multiple times higher for gun violence despite a two decade plus decline. You know, the subject we are talking about.

Of course stricter gun laws came into effect in the 1990s but let's not talk about that.

We have the majority of mass shootings in the world every year and you are much more likely to be shot in the US than any other country. 20-25 times more likely actually.

Let's keep going shall we, while Australians are 25 million people individual cities in America turn in higher numbers of murders than the entire country. 238 in 2014 and 245 in 2013. 5 cities had more homicides then that and 7 had in excess of 200 with half or less of Australia's population. It's really not comparable.


Here are some references. You know not a blog post trying to leverage statistics.

http://www.politifact.com/california/sta...ot-and-ki/

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/health/ma...index.html

http://theconversation.com/three-charts-...ates-79654

Having lived in a country with reasonable gun control I can tell you from experience the difference it makes.

Here's the best part of this all, you are so clearly "triggered" and you have no idea what restrictions I want. These responses are why gun nuts aren't taken seriously. It's why we end up with idiots talking about removing the second amendment.

I joked about you having a small program man syndrome about your school, but your over reactions to everything, your name calling, and ridiculous macho attitude has now convinced me it's more of a small in the pants syndrome.

(02-15-2018 12:53 AM)geef Wrote:  

(02-14-2018 11:29 PM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  I hope as a country we stop and take a look at what kind of moral values we are passing on to the next generation. We should value life and love our fellow man.

This is a terrible situation and this is all I will say.

(02-15-2018 12:49 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  You don't owe me a thing for educating you tonight. Please forward any rebuttals to my secretary BC#1 who's currently on leave. I won't be reading any more bleeding heart liberal trash tonight while the blood of our children has not yet even dried on the classroom floor. If I do I may forget my manners...


T


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Except your education began with assuring us that the gun was obtained illegally. Which was wrong.

And, yeah. Let's not talk about the issue. Thoughts and prayers are all we need until it blows over. Until the next one.

Shhh, don't ruin his pre-planned narrative, next you'll bring up how so many of the past shooters got their guns legally.

(02-14-2018 10:23 PM)zdiddy513 Wrote:  I read somewhere on Twitter that there have been 28 school days in 2018 and 15 school shootings so far. Unfortunately this is the America the NRA paid for.

We live in an entitled society of self important people. It doesn't matter whether we have guns or not, this sort of behavior would still be going on. We had guns all over the place through-out the 20th century and it wasn't nearly the problem it's become.

Gun ownership is more exclusive, yet school shootings are on the rise.
They used to have school gun clubs, so why is it the last 30 years or so that this is becoming an issue? I'd offer that it's societal decay.

Of course, there's no way to actually remedy that.
I think someone summed up the phenomena of massacres in America fairly well a couple years back

(02-15-2018 03:07 AM)zdiddy513 Wrote:  

So the NRA and Trump administration sold this guy firearms? Like what exactly do you expect them to do? Blow some fairy dust, click their heels and magically do away with fire arms? I don't get why people think this can be legislated away.
We have guns, you can't uninvent something and the law enforcement apparatus needed to confiscate all 300+ million we know about, not counting the untold number that have no serial, were imported illegally, or that people got bored and decided to make out of hardware store parts on their own time(zip guns, homemade Stens using plumber parts etc.) doesn't exist.
This is the reality you live in, get over it. Neither the logistics or political will to accomplish an America without gun crime exist.
I'm sorry the baby boomers sold you on the idea of things getting exponentially kinder and gentler all the time, but that's not what progress actually looks like. We're not heading toward some over the rainbow moment, where America becomes a pathologically altruistic/humanistic post-national state; such as is enjoyed in western Europe. It's a different culture. Resign yourself to that fact.

Someone needs to change the title of this thread to "Gun Control Debate" and move it.

Too bad we can't debate an issue without juvenile name calling.

Neither side is 100% wrong or right.

Unfortunately the pro gun and anti gun sides both cruise by the real problem...... mental illness. This country has continually pushed mental illness into a corner and just ignores it, like it doesnt exist. We need to push treatment for mental illness past all the medical insurance bull**it, and make it a priority without questions, ability to pay, or insurance. No one kills innocent people w/o a mental condition.

Saying guns dont kill people, people kill people is too simplistic, and doesnt address the problem. Thats like saying cigarettes dont kill people, people kill people.

and on the other side, to ban guns is unrealistic, and anti American, besides being unconstitutional.

Everyone, please support a push for wide spread help and referrals for mental illness.

this pains my heart, i dont understand how people can be so evil and heartless

my thoughts and prays to the those affected by this tragic.

(02-15-2018 01:46 AM)TU4ever Wrote:  The crime rate peaked in the 1990s, has it since come down below 1960s levels.

The crime rate peaked right when those born just before abortion was legalized turned 15-20.

About 15-20 years after abortion was legalized and unwanted babies were not brought into this world, the crime rate started falling.

And it fell faster in states where abortion was more easily obtainable.

Pure coincidence? Weird correlation? Or cause and effect?

Listen, if you want to stop all this then overturn the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all the guns. Any half measure aside of this is window dressing because crimnals and crazy people don't obey the law or "gun free zones".

Now back to my winning Pirates.....

(02-15-2018 07:29 AM)taximan1 Wrote:  Unfortunately the pro gun and anti gun sides both cruise by the real problem...... mental illness. This country has continually pushed mental illness into a corner and just ignores it, like it doesnt exist. We need to push treatment for mental illness past all the medical insurance bull**it, and make it a priority without questions, ability to pay, or insurance. No one kills innocent people w/o a mental condition.

Saying guns dont kill people, people kill people is too simplistic, and doesnt address the problem. Thats like saying cigarettes dont kill people, people kill people.

and on the other side, to ban guns is unrealistic, and anti American, besides being unconstitutional.

Everyone, please support a push for wide spread help and referrals for mental illness.

Yes.

(02-15-2018 08:54 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 07:29 AM)taximan1 Wrote:  Unfortunately the pro gun and anti gun sides both cruise by the real problem...... mental illness. This country has continually pushed mental illness into a corner and just ignores it, like it doesnt exist. We need to push treatment for mental illness past all the medical insurance bull**it, and make it a priority without questions, ability to pay, or insurance. No one kills innocent people w/o a mental condition.

Saying guns dont kill people, people kill people is too simplistic, and doesnt address the problem. Thats like saying cigarettes dont kill people, people kill people.

and on the other side, to ban guns is unrealistic, and anti American, besides being unconstitutional.

Everyone, please support a push for wide spread help and referrals for mental illness.

Yes.

I agree 100%. That said, I admit I know very little about gun control, gun laws, gun rights. I don't hunt, I've never had the desire to go hunting.

I think everyone should have the right to protect themselves, I don't think anyone would ever need an assault rifle to do so.

The real issue is with the person that pulled the trigger and the sad thing is the people he took out because of his issues. It's just terrible all the way around and the politicians make me want to vomit on both sides.

No easy answer, but at some point hard questions need to be addressed, not just asked.

(02-15-2018 08:38 AM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Listen, if you want to stop all this then overturn the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all the guns. Any half measure aside of this is window dressing because crimnals and crazy people don't obey the law or "gun free zones".

Now back to my winning Pirates.....

we know that's not happening, unless you want so much bloodshed in this country that it makes school shootings look like a church picnic

(02-15-2018 08:38 AM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Listen, if you want to stop all this then overturn the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all the guns. Any half measure aside of this is window dressing because crimnals and crazy people don't obey the law or "gun free zones".

Now back to my winning Pirates.....

(02-15-2018 09:31 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 08:38 AM)8BitPirate Wrote:  Listen, if you want to stop all this then overturn the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all the guns. Any half measure aside of this is window dressing because crimnals and crazy people don't obey the law or "gun free zones".

Now back to my winning Pirates.....

we know that's not happening, unless you want so much bloodshed in this country that it makes school shootings look like a church picnic

Both statements 100% true.

The alternative is tighter security, i.e. more guns (in the hands of good guys), and some accountability for those that know a madman is on the loose and do not report it (same with Muslim terrorist sympathizers).


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My son-in-laws's friend. Normally he would not have been home, but his wife would.
She was out and he had the day off. Not that far South of Stoneman Douglas HS.

abcnews.go.com/US/video/man-fatally-shoots-home-intruder-phone-911-43909041

(02-15-2018 04:15 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  My son-in-laws's friend. Normally he would not have been home, but his wife would.
She was out and he had the day off. Not that far South of Stoneman Douglas HS.

abcnews.go.com/US/video/man-fatally-shoots-home-intruder-phone-911-43909041

Great story! There are literally thousands more like them on sites like DefensiveCarry.com

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. When things like this happen, word gets out on the street. Homeboy maybe thinks twice next time he gets an itch to burgle a home.

School's should have armed employees at all four corners of a school building. Apparently they had an armed guard on duty but he was never able to engage the shooter. One armed guard sitting in the corner of a building large enough to house a reported student population of 3,000 is not enough. There should have been 4 at a minimum.


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(02-15-2018 05:03 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(02-15-2018 04:15 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  My son-in-laws's friend. Normally he would not have been home, but his wife would.
She was out and he had the day off. Not that far South of Stoneman Douglas HS.

abcnews.go.com/US/video/man-fatally-shoots-home-intruder-phone-911-43909041

Great story! There are literally thousands more like them on sites like DefensiveCarry.com

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. When things like this happen, word gets out on the street. Homeboy maybe thinks twice next time he gets an itch to burgle a home.

School's should have armed employees at all four corners of a school building. Apparently they had an armed guard on duty but he was never able to engage the shooter. One armed guard sitting in the corner of a building large enough to house a reported student population of 3,000 is not enough. There should have been 4 at a minimum.


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A speeding car or truck in a crosswalk or on a sidewalk could have caused more carnage.

If an alcoholic crashes a car into a crowd killing people, it's an illness. A mentally disturbed individual kills people with a gun, it's the gun and the NRA.