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Heres a quote from a tiger realist
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MemTigers1998 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 09:04 AM)skunk100 Wrote:  We can start simple, do not go 4 straight years without making any sort of postseason tournament...

Or how bout a single recruit ranked top 100.
[/quote]

Or how about having more than 2,000 or less in attendance for every home game.
[/quote]

All good points, but Tiger fans--- please lower your expectations. Tubby knows best and he says we should be happy with the results we are getting now. You cant recruit elite players here. Its hard to win games against tough competition.

#heswoneverywherehesbeen
#trusttheprocess
#03-puke
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2018 09:26 AM by MemTigers1998.)
02-16-2018 09:25 AM
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Dylan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
that's what kills me about the "expectations are too high" crowd. Why do you think he gets paid top 10 salary? Why should the last two years be acceptable? Why should not being able to land a top 300 recruit this year be acceptable?

Nobody is asking for final 4...most of us would have been happy with NIT this year with a solid recruiting class and hope for the future.
02-16-2018 09:27 AM
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wylioats Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?


Long before Calipari, there was Gene Bartow, There was Dana Kirk, there was Larry Finch (prior to him getting sick). So it's not just the Calipari years. It amazes me how some use this analogy just to make their point. As a Tiger fan, and yes, I'm a season ticket holder and yes I go to the games (Tickets too expensive not to). Me and many, many others (Tiger fans) do expect to get back to the level of Tiger basketball these coaches had us at. The Tubby hire was a major big time mistake with no hope for the future, go no farther than to look at our recruiting, or should I say lack of. And for the record, I'm a football first Tiger fan who just happens to also love Tiger basketball, who yes, wants it to get back to what we as Tiger fans expect our Tiger basketball program to be. In other words, being relevant in the world of college basketball, which currently we're not.
02-16-2018 09:39 AM
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450bench Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2018 10:02 AM by 450bench.)
02-16-2018 09:59 AM
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Atlanta Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 09:39 AM)wylioats Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?


Long before Calipari, there was Gene Bartow, There was Dana Kirk, there was Larry Finch (prior to him getting sick). So it's not just the Calipari years. It amazes me how some use this analogy just to make their point. As a Tiger fan, and yes, I'm a season ticket holder and yes I go to the games (Tickets too expensive not to). Me and many, many others (Tiger fans) do expect to get back to the level of Tiger basketball these coaches had us at. The Tubby hire was a major big time mistake with no hope for the future, go no farther than to look at our recruiting, or should I say lack of. And for the record, I'm a football first Tiger fan who just happens to also love Tiger basketball, who yes, wants it to get back to what we as Tiger fans expect our Tiger basketball program to be. In other words, being relevant in the world of college basketball, which currently we're not.

But there have also been Dean Ehlers, Moe Iba, Wayne Yates, Tic Price & Johnny Jones & the below avg years of some others that had success. And don't forget the probations on some occasions where there was success by those you mentioned. I'm not making any point, I'm not attempting to lower expectations, I'm not in some "crowd" of any sort, just asking the question of 450 based upon his statement. This thread is about being a realist, right - just trying to discuss what is actually real & you have to look at the 64 yr history of Memphis basketball to do that, IMO.
02-16-2018 10:10 AM
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Atlanta Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

Then let's not take away Dean Ehlers, Moe Iba, Wayne Yates, Tic Price, Johnny Jones, the probations associated with Kirk & Calipari - it's all part.

I too would love to have Calipari's last 4 yrs continuously & all the good that goes with it - without the NCAA probation. That said, Memphis historically is a .668 % win team. That's about 20 wins per season on avg. with a 30 game schedule & we've been to the NCAA 25 times in 64 seasons - including Calipar's last 4 yrs. Take those 4 yrs (well above avg) out, sub the historical avg & Memphis is at about .63 % & 21 NCAA appearances. Or maybe take out the years associated with probation.

Several other things. Memphis is currently playing a schedule (and have for several yrs) well below the historical Memphis SOS. That hurts consideration for the NCAA tourney & weakens the value of wins. This same dumbed-down schedule approach also hurts attendance. And regardless, the current criteria for NCAA tourney selection disadvantages a 20 win team playing a weak SOS schedule in favor of other weak conference champions. Relative to attendance, Calipari yrs were likely not the norm even for a winning Memphis program. Likely something approaching 12-14K is more likely given the increased competition for the entertainment $$. I don't care much about recruiting rankings & don't understand the obsessive addiction. It's the results that matter IMO, is Memphis competing, is Memphis winning. Sure recruiting is an indicator, but if it's the end-all, then Calipari should be fired at UK, he is severely underachieving. This thread is about be real, right?
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2018 10:22 AM by Atlanta.)
02-16-2018 10:17 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 08:01 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  Unless that "realist" has several million $$ to contribute to the cause, he's not a realist at all.

Thank God you said that; now it's official that the exact opposite is true. Please confirm that Tubby will be here until the end of his contract. The board needs some good news.
02-16-2018 10:29 AM
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450bench Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 10:17 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

Then let's not take away Dean Ehlers, Moe Iba, Wayne Yates, Tic Price, Johnny Jones, the probations associated with Kirk & Calipari - it's all part.

I too would love to have Calipari's last 4 yrs continuously & all the good that goes with it - without the NCAA probation. That said, Memphis historically is a .668 % win team. That's about 20 wins per season on avg. with a 30 game schedule & we've been to the NCAA 25 times in 64 seasons - including Calipar's last 4 yrs. Take those 4 yrs (well above avg) out, sub the historical avg & Memphis is at about .63 % & 21 NCAA appearances. Or maybe take out the years associated with probation.

Several other things. Memphis is currently playing a schedule (and have for several yrs) well below the historical Memphis SOS. That hurts consideration for the NCAA tourney & weakens the value of wins. This same dumbed-down schedule approach also hurts attendance. And regardless, the current criteria for NCAA tourney selection disadvantages a 20 win team playing a weak SOS schedule in favor of other weak conference champions. Relative to attendance, Calipari yrs were likely not the norm even for a winning Memphis program. Likely something approaching 12-14K is more likely given the increased competition for the entertainment $$. I don't care much about recruiting rankings & don't understand the obsessive addiction. It's the results that matter IMO, is Memphis competing, is Memphis winning. Sure recruiting is an indicator, but if it's the end-all, then Calipari should be fired at UK, he is severely underachieving. This thread is about be real, right?

Again, it's about getting back to being a top 25 program, period. About getting quality players and about being NCAA tourney relevant and whatever criteria that takes. That's what this program has historically been and what it should always be.
Tubby deserved the chance to succeed and he's a fine floor coach. Really good actually. Clearly a classy man. But he can't get players and has turned off the basketball community here and brings ZERO fire or energy to the program. His staff is bad on a historical level and that's on him. Totally. He's got one guy coming in. ONE GUY. That's pathetic and for that reason there is no real hope for the future. He's got to go, for that reason.
A lot of us were criticized for wanting to give the guy a chance and my comment to that was "if he doesn't produce and recruit, we'll all be wanting a change" and that has become reality. Nobody wants mediocrity and that's squarely what we have now. It started with pastner and now we have it with Tubby. That's unacceptable on every level.
02-16-2018 10:49 AM
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Tygrys Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 10:17 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

Then let's not take away Dean Ehlers, Moe Iba, Wayne Yates, Tic Price, Johnny Jones, the probations associated with Kirk & Calipari - it's all part.

I too would love to have Calipari's last 4 yrs continuously & all the good that goes with it - without the NCAA probation. That said, Memphis historically is a .668 % win team. That's about 20 wins per season on avg. with a 30 game schedule & we've been to the NCAA 25 times in 64 seasons - including Calipar's last 4 yrs. Take those 4 yrs (well above avg) out, sub the historical avg & Memphis is at about .63 % & 21 NCAA appearances. Or maybe take out the years associated with probation.

Several other things. Memphis is currently playing a schedule (and have for several yrs) well below the historical Memphis SOS. That hurts consideration for the NCAA tourney & weakens the value of wins. This same dumbed-down schedule approach also hurts attendance. And regardless, the current criteria for NCAA tourney selection disadvantages a 20 win team playing a weak SOS schedule in favor of other weak conference champions. Relative to attendance, Calipari yrs were likely not the norm even for a winning Memphis program. Likely something approaching 12-14K is more likely given the increased competition for the entertainment $$. I don't care much about recruiting rankings & don't understand the obsessive addiction. It's the results that matter IMO, is Memphis competing, is Memphis winning. Sure recruiting is an indicator, but if it's the end-all, then Calipari should be fired at UK, he is severely underachieving. This thread is about be real, right?

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read. Every sports team at every level ebbs and flows throughout history... Historically Memphis is not a team that misses the NCAA tournament 4 straight years. Historically we are not a team that can compete with top 25 teams. Historically we are not a program that lauds beating a 15-11 team down their two best players as a good and celebrated win.

You can set your bar based on the down years and be satisfied with Tubby so long as he performs at that level. The rest of fan base expects us to be competitive program on a consistent basis.

And to be fair. Legitimately, the only time I see people use the Cal era in any comparative form is when it is poster like you saying other fans have unreasonable expectations based on the Cal era. I never actually see fans saying they expect Tubby or JP (when he was here) perform at the same level. Nobody actually expects us to consistently win more games than any other NCAA program over a 4 year period or be competing for an NCAA title every year. So, stop with that lame argument.
02-16-2018 10:59 AM
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BandwagonJumper Away
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Post: #30
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 07:51 AM)holyterror Wrote:  OTOH, I'm seriously considering getting season tickets for the first time-FB and BB.

I'm taking my BB money and putting it towards one of those $5k Tiger Lane spots that are being released next week.
02-16-2018 11:02 AM
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wylioats Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 10:10 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 09:39 AM)wylioats Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?


Long before Calipari, there was Gene Bartow, There was Dana Kirk, there was Larry Finch (prior to him getting sick). So it's not just the Calipari years. It amazes me how some use this analogy just to make their point. As a Tiger fan, and yes, I'm a season ticket holder and yes I go to the games (Tickets too expensive not to). Me and many, many others (Tiger fans) do expect to get back to the level of Tiger basketball these coaches had us at. The Tubby hire was a major big time mistake with no hope for the future, go no farther than to look at our recruiting, or should I say lack of. And for the record, I'm a football first Tiger fan who just happens to also love Tiger basketball, who yes, wants it to get back to what we as Tiger fans expect our Tiger basketball program to be. In other words, being relevant in the world of college basketball, which currently we're not.

But there have also been Dean Ehlers, Moe Iba, Wayne Yates, Tic Price & Johnny Jones & the below avg years of some others that had success. And don't forget the probations on some occasions where there was success by those you mentioned. I'm not making any point, I'm not attempting to lower expectations, I'm not in some "crowd" of any sort, just asking the question of 450 based upon his statement. This thread is about being a realist, right - just trying to discuss what is actually real & you have to look at the 64 yr history of Memphis basketball to do that, IMO.


All schools have had their down years under bad coaching situations, as we're having now. My point being, the majority of Tiger fans aren't expecting it to be like Cal's last 4 years (would be nice though, lol) as you and others continuously say, but more in line with the Bartow, Kirk and Finch (before he got sick) years, and yes, Pastners first 4 years. All I'm saying is, you and some others saying expectations are being based on Cal's last 4 years by Tiger fans is not true. Apathy=program killer, and it's here in a big way.
02-16-2018 11:12 AM
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jgardne Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

People who think everybody is a fairweather fan and then uses the Calipari years probably don't understand the rich history of tiger basketball. With the NCAA field expanded where it is now, our historical level of performance would be making the ncaa tournament 3 out of every 4 years and being around the top 25 and being a top 50 program as the floor.
02-16-2018 11:16 AM
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Stammers Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 10:17 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

Then let's not take away Dean Ehlers, Moe Iba, Wayne Yates, Tic Price, Johnny Jones, the probations associated with Kirk & Calipari - it's all part.

I too would love to have Calipari's last 4 yrs continuously & all the good that goes with it - without the NCAA probation. That said, Memphis historically is a .668 % win team. That's about 20 wins per season on avg. with a 30 game schedule & we've been to the NCAA 25 times in 64 seasons - including Calipar's last 4 yrs. Take those 4 yrs (well above avg) out, sub the historical avg & Memphis is at about .63 % & 21 NCAA appearances. Or maybe take out the years associated with probation.

Several other things. Memphis is currently playing a schedule (and have for several yrs) well below the historical Memphis SOS. That hurts consideration for the NCAA tourney & weakens the value of wins. This same dumbed-down schedule approach also hurts attendance. And regardless, the current criteria for NCAA tourney selection disadvantages a 20 win team playing a weak SOS schedule in favor of other weak conference champions. Relative to attendance, Calipari yrs were likely not the norm even for a winning Memphis program. Likely something approaching 12-14K is more likely given the increased competition for the entertainment $$. I don't care much about recruiting rankings & don't understand the obsessive addiction. It's the results that matter IMO, is Memphis competing, is Memphis winning. Sure recruiting is an indicator, but if it's the end-all, then Calipari should be fired at UK, he is severely underachieving. This thread is about be real, right?

Quote:I don't care much about recruiting rankings

Which is the basis for many of your weird theories.

Quote:Sure recruiting is an indicator, but if it's the end-all, then Calipari should be fired at UK, he is severely underachieving. This thread is about be real, right?

It honestly is mind boggling that a human being thinks like this. You equate Tubby and his 1 NCAA win in the last 12 years with someone who in the same time period, has...

1 National championship
4 Final Fours
4 Elite 8
1 Sweet 16
39 NCAA wins

The last time Cal had a disappointing season was 2014. Kentucky went 24-10 entering the tournament and made it to the national championship game as a #8 seed.

So let's fire Cal when the season isn't even finished, when CLEARLY he is a proven performer in March and compare him to our over the hill, has been coach, who hasn't achieved anything in the last 12 years.

Tubby - Mr. November
Atlanta - Mr. Confused
02-16-2018 11:18 AM
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Atlanta Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 10:59 AM)Tygrys Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 10:17 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

Then let's not take away Dean Ehlers, Moe Iba, Wayne Yates, Tic Price, Johnny Jones, the probations associated with Kirk & Calipari - it's all part.

I too would love to have Calipari's last 4 yrs continuously & all the good that goes with it - without the NCAA probation. That said, Memphis historically is a .668 % win team. That's about 20 wins per season on avg. with a 30 game schedule & we've been to the NCAA 25 times in 64 seasons - including Calipar's last 4 yrs. Take those 4 yrs (well above avg) out, sub the historical avg & Memphis is at about .63 % & 21 NCAA appearances. Or maybe take out the years associated with probation.

Several other things. Memphis is currently playing a schedule (and have for several yrs) well below the historical Memphis SOS. That hurts consideration for the NCAA tourney & weakens the value of wins. This same dumbed-down schedule approach also hurts attendance. And regardless, the current criteria for NCAA tourney selection disadvantages a 20 win team playing a weak SOS schedule in favor of other weak conference champions. Relative to attendance, Calipari yrs were likely not the norm even for a winning Memphis program. Likely something approaching 12-14K is more likely given the increased competition for the entertainment $$. I don't care much about recruiting rankings & don't understand the obsessive addiction. It's the results that matter IMO, is Memphis competing, is Memphis winning. Sure recruiting is an indicator, but if it's the end-all, then Calipari should be fired at UK, he is severely underachieving. This thread is about be real, right?

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read. Every sports team at every level ebbs and flows throughout history... Historically Memphis is not a team that misses the NCAA tournament 4 straight years. Historically we are not a team that can compete with top 25 teams. Historically we are not a program that lauds beating a 15-11 team down their two best players as a good and celebrated win.

You can set your bar based on the down years and be satisfied with Tubby so long as he performs at that level. The rest of fan base expects us to be competitive program on a consistent basis.

And to be fair. Legitimately, the only time I see people use the Cal era in any comparative form is when it is poster like you saying other fans have unreasonable expectations based on the Cal era. I never actually see fans saying they expect Tubby or JP (when he was here) perform at the same level. Nobody actually expects us to consistently win more games than any other NCAA program over a 4 year period or be competing for an NCAA title every year. So, stop with that lame argument.

To be fair - you either can't read or your bias is so great you read things that aren't said - and you attribute things that aren't said or implied. I simply stated the historical performance of the Memphis program - and made NO concluding, therefore-type statements about what it means. I didn't set the bar anywhere, again simply stated the historical averages for consideration by those reading this thread - a thread on being realist LOL. Further, I've made NO argument & no statement that says, "Historically Memphis is not a team that misses the NCAA tournament 4 straight years. Historically we are not a team that can compete with top 25 teams. Historically we are not a program that lauds beating a 15-11 team down their two best players as a good and celebrated win." It's YOU making those statements, claims & drawing those conclusions & attributing them to me - they aren't mine. And BTW, Memphis is not, based upon historical averages, a school that recruited annually, multiple top 100 players, prior to Calipari. Maybe it happened but it is not supported by historical averages. Memphis historically recruited Memphis with an occasional exception. So Memphis' teams ebbed & flowed (in terms of wins) based upon Memphis talent (especially as relates to local big men). Today Memphis, the city's talent, is recruited nationally not just by Memphis. Sure I want Memphis to get a tourney invite every year but historically it's about 1 in 3 yrs. - with 2-3 of periods of 10 yrs or more without an invite & several periods where we had consecutive invites (the up years). And BTW, IMO with Memphis in the AAC, tourney invites are tougher to get than ever. Because the way Memphis is scheduling, unless Memphis wins the AAC or the AAC tourney, we will likely not have enough quality wins to get that invite unless we are close (like a UH type year) with a couple of in-conference quality wins.

But rather than falsely attribute some lowered expectations to me, why not look at the historical performance averages - and then compare your expectations to actual history. Oh and don't forget the probation years.......cheers.
02-16-2018 12:36 PM
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Atlanta Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 11:16 AM)jgardne Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

People who think everybody is a fairweather fan and then uses the Calipari years probably don't understand the rich history of tiger basketball. With the NCAA field expanded where it is now, our historical level of performance would be making the ncaa tournament 3 out of every 4 years and being around the top 25 and being a top 50 program as the floor.

That is not supported by reality. Historical averages say about 1 in 3 yrs., but hey, I'm rooting for every year.
02-16-2018 12:42 PM
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Tigergary Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 12:42 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 11:16 AM)jgardne Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:10 AM)450bench Wrote:  "True Tiger fans" come in many forms and as one myself, I certainly recognize that a coaching change needs to be made at the end of the year. Has to be made, actually, for the program to progress back to where we all want it to be.

Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

People who think everybody is a fairweather fan and then uses the Calipari years probably don't understand the rich history of tiger basketball. With the NCAA field expanded where it is now, our historical level of performance would be making the ncaa tournament 3 out of every 4 years and being around the top 25 and being a top 50 program as the floor.

That is not supported by reality. Historical averages say about 1 in 3 yrs., but hey, I'm rooting for every year.
Dude. We suck. Our coach sucks. His staff sucks. His recruiting sucks. You can crap out all the pessimistic history averages all you want. We will continue to suck until a change is made. That simple. Most of us don't want to suck or keep on sucking.
02-16-2018 01:46 PM
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450bench Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
* It played out
* we're mediocre as some here predicted prior to it playing out
* There is no hope due to the staffs inability to recruit upper level talent
* it's time to cut bait
* period
02-16-2018 01:55 PM
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GermantownTiger Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 11:16 AM)jgardne Wrote:  People who think everybody is a fairweather fan and then uses the Calipari years probably don't understand the rich history of tiger basketball. With the NCAA field expanded where it is now, our historical level of performance would be making the ncaa tournament 3 out of every 4 years and being around the top 25 and being a top 50 program as the floor.

Spot on! 04-cheers

This sums up what most long-time fans know about the Tiger basketball program.

TS's biggest error in managing his personal brand is failing to generate consistent enthusiasm in getting us back to relevance. How can we possibly expect recruiting targets and their handlers to get excited about being a part of the resurgence of Tiger basketball when the head coach is sandbagging his own performance left and right.
02-16-2018 01:57 PM
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Tigx Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 01:55 PM)450bench Wrote:  * It played out
* we're mediocre as some here predicted prior to it playing out
* There is no hope due to the staffs inability to recruit upper level talent
* it's time to cut bait
* period

May all be true, but if the money is not there, the money is not there.

We took years to fund a basketball IPF, including a $10M donation, and ended up costing only $21M, and years more to fund a football IPF.

The admin/boosters are not going to pay $9.75M to make a coach go away after his 2nd season, when he will have had winning records both years. You can divide it by 6 or 12 or 24, it's still not going to happen.

You can hope he resigns (won't happen either) or hope he gets another job (possible), but Memphis isn't cutting bait this year.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2018 02:28 PM by Tigx.)
02-16-2018 02:28 PM
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Tygrys Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Heres a quote from a tiger realist
(02-16-2018 12:36 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 10:59 AM)Tygrys Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 10:17 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 09:59 AM)450bench Wrote:  
(02-16-2018 08:41 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  Honestly just curious - if you set aside the Calipari years (actually his last 4 yrs), what exactly do you see as "back to where we all want it to be"? What are the expectations expressed in that phrase?

Getting back to being a top 25 program, planning for NCAA tournaments, recruiting top100 talent, at minimum, and keeping most of the hometown talent home.
Memphis has a tradition of winning and talent and you can’t take away Cal or Kirk or Finch or Bartow or any other period for the sake of discussion. They all contributed to the programs success and tradition.

Then let's not take away Dean Ehlers, Moe Iba, Wayne Yates, Tic Price, Johnny Jones, the probations associated with Kirk & Calipari - it's all part.

I too would love to have Calipari's last 4 yrs continuously & all the good that goes with it - without the NCAA probation. That said, Memphis historically is a .668 % win team. That's about 20 wins per season on avg. with a 30 game schedule & we've been to the NCAA 25 times in 64 seasons - including Calipar's last 4 yrs. Take those 4 yrs (well above avg) out, sub the historical avg & Memphis is at about .63 % & 21 NCAA appearances. Or maybe take out the years associated with probation.

Several other things. Memphis is currently playing a schedule (and have for several yrs) well below the historical Memphis SOS. That hurts consideration for the NCAA tourney & weakens the value of wins. This same dumbed-down schedule approach also hurts attendance. And regardless, the current criteria for NCAA tourney selection disadvantages a 20 win team playing a weak SOS schedule in favor of other weak conference champions. Relative to attendance, Calipari yrs were likely not the norm even for a winning Memphis program. Likely something approaching 12-14K is more likely given the increased competition for the entertainment $$. I don't care much about recruiting rankings & don't understand the obsessive addiction. It's the results that matter IMO, is Memphis competing, is Memphis winning. Sure recruiting is an indicator, but if it's the end-all, then Calipari should be fired at UK, he is severely underachieving. This thread is about be real, right?

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read. Every sports team at every level ebbs and flows throughout history... Historically Memphis is not a team that misses the NCAA tournament 4 straight years. Historically we are not a team that can compete with top 25 teams. Historically we are not a program that lauds beating a 15-11 team down their two best players as a good and celebrated win.

You can set your bar based on the down years and be satisfied with Tubby so long as he performs at that level. The rest of fan base expects us to be competitive program on a consistent basis.

And to be fair. Legitimately, the only time I see people use the Cal era in any comparative form is when it is poster like you saying other fans have unreasonable expectations based on the Cal era. I never actually see fans saying they expect Tubby or JP (when he was here) perform at the same level. Nobody actually expects us to consistently win more games than any other NCAA program over a 4 year period or be competing for an NCAA title every year. So, stop with that lame argument.

To be fair - you either can't read or your bias is so great you read things that aren't said - and you attribute things that aren't said or implied. I simply stated the historical performance of the Memphis program - and made NO concluding, therefore-type statements about what it means. I didn't set the bar anywhere, again simply stated the historical averages for consideration by those reading this thread - a thread on being realist LOL. Further, I've made NO argument & no statement that says, "Historically Memphis is not a team that misses the NCAA tournament 4 straight years. Historically we are not a team that can compete with top 25 teams. Historically we are not a program that lauds beating a 15-11 team down their two best players as a good and celebrated win." It's YOU making those statements, claims & drawing those conclusions & attributing them to me - they aren't mine. And BTW, Memphis is not, based upon historical averages, a school that recruited annually, multiple top 100 players, prior to Calipari. Maybe it happened but it is not supported by historical averages. Memphis historically recruited Memphis with an occasional exception. So Memphis' teams ebbed & flowed (in terms of wins) based upon Memphis talent (especially as relates to local big men). Today Memphis, the city's talent, is recruited nationally not just by Memphis. Sure I want Memphis to get a tourney invite every year but historically it's about 1 in 3 yrs. - with 2-3 of periods of 10 yrs or more without an invite & several periods where we had consecutive invites (the up years). And BTW, IMO with Memphis in the AAC, tourney invites are tougher to get than ever. Because the way Memphis is scheduling, unless Memphis wins the AAC or the AAC tourney, we will likely not have enough quality wins to get that invite unless we are close (like a UH type year) with a couple of in-conference quality wins.

But rather than falsely attribute some lowered expectations to me, why not look at the historical performance averages - and then compare your expectations to actual history. Oh and don't forget the probation years.......cheers.

You should try reading comprehension before you claim others do not have it...
02-16-2018 02:55 PM
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