I worked all weekend, did not get to see the game. Saw the box score, it was pretty even aside from UC having more steals and Wichita shooting better from behind the arc.

(02-18-2018 10:09 PM)payday Wrote:  Oops! Wasn’t Steve Logan UC’s prior 1st teamer? How’d he do in the league?

Look at where Logan was at his freshman year and where he was his senior year. Same for Bobby Brannen, Erick Hicks, Melvin Levitt, Keith Gregor, etc.... Kenyon Martin most of all. And before we go there it isn't a Bob versus Mick thing as they are more similar coaches than some might think but it does fall on Mick to at least have assistants who can develop these players.

(02-19-2018 07:58 AM)bearcat65 Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 10:09 PM)payday Wrote:  Oops! Wasn’t Steve Logan UC’s prior 1st teamer? How’d he do in the league?

Look at where Logan was at his freshman year and where he was his senior year. Same for Bobby Brannen, Erick Hicks, Melvin Levitt, Keith Gregor, etc.... Kenyon Martin most of all. And before we go there it isn't a Bob versus Mick thing as they are more similar coaches than some might think but it does fall on Mick to at least have assistants who can develop these players.

yeah I'm looking more so at the assistants we have than Mick himself. We only develop 2-3 players at a time instead of the entire team.

Wichita State looked like the team most people thought they were going to be at the start of the year. Honestly, the better team won the game. Realistic goal right now is win the next three to get a piece of the conference championship. Conference tournament is going to be up for grabs as well and Cincinnati has a good chance to win that thing in Orlando.

From a seeding perspective, UC can still earn 2 or 3 seed by winning out which at this point is very difficult. 15-3 and trip to conference tournament finals probably has the Cats on the 4 line assuming that includes a win over Houston in the conference tournament; however, Wichita State is also tracking on the 3/4 seed line. Houston is is probably somewhere in the 5 to 7 seed range.

Lets say this occurs
1. Wichita State wins out. 15-3, 29-5, 2 or 3 seed
2. Cincinnati loses only to Wichita State two more times beats Houston and one other solid team in the conference tournament 15-3, 28-6, 4 or 5 seed. I actually believe a 4 seed is the likely result based on this outcome.
3. Houston wins out until the conference tournament. 26-6, 6 or 7 seed.

Very similar to year one in the league when Louisville, Cincinnati, and UConn earned a 4, 5, and 7 seeds. Big difference is that year one year better at the top with Memphis and SMU but was horrible at the middle and lower end. This year 9 teams currently carry RPI's in the top 115.

Once again WS didnt have better players than us. All on our coaching. They don't have guys jumping out the gym or 7ft freak of natures. What they have is a coach that puts his players in position to shoot from their spots on floor by spacing court and having high IQ players. Our guards and wings need start helping out more on defensive rebounds also. Can't get out rebounded and we the bigger more physical team

A disappointing week to say the least. Goodbye #2 seed. Goodbye outright conference title for the regular season; hope they didn't order that banner yet. Was this week just a bump in the road? If so, UC hit a damaging pothole that may derail hopes for a special year by dropping from a protected seed in a few weeks.

I guess after ten years plus it's too much to ask a coaching staff to run some offensive sets in a winnable game against a quality opponent. Two possession game when it counted, but watching the Bearcats with the ball down the stretch was painful--all dribbling, little meaningful passing, and an invisible wall sealing off the lane yielding a desperation (missed) shot as the clock expired. We've seen that movie before.

With that said, all is not doom and gloom. Broome was a real bright spot and surely must be the starter the rest of the way. When he's flying into the paint he's unstoppable and adds a completely new dimension on offense. Nsoseme brings energy and skill defensively and it seems to me he should see a lot more minutes the rest of the way. Cumberland made some tough shots. Clark, Evans and Washington will return to form.

Finally, I was disturbed by Mick's postgame comments on WLW, essentially throwing his two seniors under the bus for their performances yesterday. If that's the message in the locker room perhaps the players are tired of the tirades and have checked out emotionally. For their sake, and ours as Bearcat fans, I hope that's not the case. We'll soon know. As evidenced by several top 25 teams this week, a couple of losses won't kill the dream but it certainly damages postseason seeding which often means an easier path to the second weekend of the tournament. And I think that's one place all Bearcat fans want to see this team playing.

(02-19-2018 08:23 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote:  Once again WS didnt have better players than us. All on our coaching. They don't have guys jumping out the gym or 7ft freak of natures. What they have is a coach that puts his players in position to shoot from their spots on floor by spacing court and having high IQ players. Our guards and wings need start helping out more on defensive rebounds also. Can't get out rebounded and we the bigger more physical team

Technically, we won the rebounding battle (27-26 I think). Unless you are referring to the Houston game (where we did get dominated on the boards). Wichita State is very good at rebounding as well.

Offense is not just coaching, it's the players. WSU has a bunch of guys you can't let have any space from 3 (Shamet, Reaves, Brown, Frankamp, McDuffie) which forces defenders to the perimeter and opens up the interior. When the D switched they found the mismatch, if the D collapsed they found the open man.

We have better athletes, but not better shooters. Shooters create spacing by making the D come out and guard them. Cumberland is 33% from 3 for the year, that doesn't strike fear in any team. Jenifer doesn't shoot it from 3 unless he has no defender within 15 feet. Williams and Moore aren't major threats from 3 either (13.6% and 34.5% respectively). Our only high % 3 point shooters are Evans, Broome, Clark and Washington and Clark/Washington aren't generally on the perimeter. That's part of why our offense runs better with Broome in, he is one of two legitimate outside threats we have from a guard.

(02-19-2018 08:43 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:23 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote:  Once again WS didnt have better players than us. All on our coaching. They don't have guys jumping out the gym or 7ft freak of natures. What they have is a coach that puts his players in position to shoot from their spots on floor by spacing court and having high IQ players. Our guards and wings need start helping out more on defensive rebounds also. Can't get out rebounded and we the bigger more physical team

Technically, we won the rebounding battle (27-26 I think). Unless you are referring to the Houston game (where we did get dominated on the boards). Wichita State is very good at rebounding as well.

Offense is not just coaching, it's the players. WSU has a bunch of guys you can't let have any space from 3 (Shamet, Reaves, Brown, Frankamp, McDuffie) which forces defenders to the perimeter and opens up the interior. When the D switched they found the mismatch, if the D collapsed they found the open man.

We have better athletes, but not better shooters. Shooters create spacing by making the D come out and guard them. Cumberland is 33% from 3 for the year, that doesn't strike fear in any team. Jenifer doesn't shoot it from 3 unless he has no defender within 15 feet. Williams and Moore aren't major threats from 3 either (13.6% and 34.5% respectively). Our only high % 3 point shooters are Evans, Broome, Clark and Washington and Clark/Washington aren't generally on the perimeter. That's part of why our offense runs better with Broome in, he is one of two legitimate outside threats we have from a guard.

Teams like Wichita State, Xavier, and to a lesser extent Temple continue to exploit UC's switching defense by finding the mismatch and making the Cats pay. Not every team has the players to do that so I wouldn't be too concerned unless UC gets that type of matchup in the tournament.

(02-19-2018 08:32 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Finally, I was disturbed by Mick's postgame comments on WLW, essentially throwing his two seniors under the bus for their performances yesterday. If that's the message in the locker room perhaps the players are tired of the tirades and have checked out emotionally. For their sake, and ours as Bearcat fans, I hope that's not the case. We'll soon know. As evidenced by several top 25 teams this week, a couple of losses won't kill the dream but it certainly damages postseason seeding which often means an easier path to the second weekend of the tournament. And I think that's one place all Bearcat fans want to see this team playing.

You can't go by local news, they highlight the stuff that makes their story. Listen to the entire interview

He's calling out the seniors. Our five big guys: Clark, Washington, Brooks, Nsoseme and Scott combined for one offensive rebounds in whole game (he says 80 minutes).

Our inside game was non-existant yesterday. Very disapponting.

The other major issue he states is lack of deflections in the second half. Poor defense.

(02-19-2018 08:57 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:43 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:23 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote:  Once again WS didnt have better players than us. All on our coaching. They don't have guys jumping out the gym or 7ft freak of natures. What they have is a coach that puts his players in position to shoot from their spots on floor by spacing court and having high IQ players. Our guards and wings need start helping out more on defensive rebounds also. Can't get out rebounded and we the bigger more physical team

Technically, we won the rebounding battle (27-26 I think). Unless you are referring to the Houston game (where we did get dominated on the boards). Wichita State is very good at rebounding as well.

Offense is not just coaching, it's the players. WSU has a bunch of guys you can't let have any space from 3 (Shamet, Reaves, Brown, Frankamp, McDuffie) which forces defenders to the perimeter and opens up the interior. When the D switched they found the mismatch, if the D collapsed they found the open man.

We have better athletes, but not better shooters. Shooters create spacing by making the D come out and guard them. Cumberland is 33% from 3 for the year, that doesn't strike fear in any team. Jenifer doesn't shoot it from 3 unless he has no defender within 15 feet. Williams and Moore aren't major threats from 3 either (13.6% and 34.5% respectively). Our only high % 3 point shooters are Evans, Broome, Clark and Washington and Clark/Washington aren't generally on the perimeter. That's part of why our offense runs better with Broome in, he is one of two legitimate outside threats we have from a guard.

Teams like Wichita State, Xavier, and to a lesser extent Temple continue to exploit UC's switching defense by finding the mismatch and making the Cats pay. Not every team has the players to do that so I wouldn't be too concerned unless UC gets that type of matchup in the tournament.

Yeah, there aren't that many teams with the players to exploit mismatches and the offensive IQ to find them. It would be nice if Cronin had a backup plan ready for when that does happen though. Change the defense, or don't switch with Washington or something. Right now his backup plan is to take Washington out of the game, which isn't good for our offense.

Post game comments from Coach and several players...

(02-19-2018 09:27 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:57 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:43 AM)skyblade Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:23 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote:  Once again WS didnt have better players than us. All on our coaching. They don't have guys jumping out the gym or 7ft freak of natures. What they have is a coach that puts his players in position to shoot from their spots on floor by spacing court and having high IQ players. Our guards and wings need start helping out more on defensive rebounds also. Can't get out rebounded and we the bigger more physical team

Technically, we won the rebounding battle (27-26 I think). Unless you are referring to the Houston game (where we did get dominated on the boards). Wichita State is very good at rebounding as well.

Offense is not just coaching, it's the players. WSU has a bunch of guys you can't let have any space from 3 (Shamet, Reaves, Brown, Frankamp, McDuffie) which forces defenders to the perimeter and opens up the interior. When the D switched they found the mismatch, if the D collapsed they found the open man.

We have better athletes, but not better shooters. Shooters create spacing by making the D come out and guard them. Cumberland is 33% from 3 for the year, that doesn't strike fear in any team. Jenifer doesn't shoot it from 3 unless he has no defender within 15 feet. Williams and Moore aren't major threats from 3 either (13.6% and 34.5% respectively). Our only high % 3 point shooters are Evans, Broome, Clark and Washington and Clark/Washington aren't generally on the perimeter. That's part of why our offense runs better with Broome in, he is one of two legitimate outside threats we have from a guard.

Teams like Wichita State, Xavier, and to a lesser extent Temple continue to exploit UC's switching defense by finding the mismatch and making the Cats pay. Not every team has the players to do that so I wouldn't be too concerned unless UC gets that type of matchup in the tournament.

Yeah, there aren't that many teams with the players to exploit mismatches and the offensive IQ to find them. It would be nice if Cronin had a backup plan ready for when that does happen though. Change the defense, or don't switch with Washington or something. Right now his backup plan is to take Washington out of the game, which isn't good for our offense.

dude every team in ncaa after 1st rd has players that hit wide open shots. also once again clark is getting exposed more on switches than washington. dont feed into mick bias BS

Disappointing loss, Wichita St is good offensively.

More disappointing to me was Coach's comments after the game. Something about having to get back to doing the uncomfortable things (rebounding and defense).

We out rebounded a good WS club 27-26 (10-9 on the offensive glass). We held WS 10 points below their season average. UC had fewer turnovers for the game (13-15). UC had more steals (8-3).

The thing that killed us was coming out after the half and turning the ball over three straight times as WS extended a two point lead to nine.

But, UC will go back and work on its "D".

Frustrating, but at some point you have to realize when you play good teams, you have to score the ball, especially at home. Half court sets just get bogged down too much (that's not a new thing).

Anyway, 2 losses in a row to good teams... kind of takes the air out of things with the back loaded schedule we have.

We need to hold at two losses and steal one at WS. Go Cats.

I guess my take on the game after sleeping on it,

-WS legit team. I was impressed by how physical they were. I knew they were good, but much bigger and physical than i expected. Definitely deeper than Uc in the shooting dept.
-We had success coming back when we spread the floor aka Nova and let Broome beat guys off the dribble. Why that was pretty much abandoned once we got within a possession was kind of mind boggling. We seemed to resort right back to what was not working which was Cumberland and Evans dribbling into the defense.
-Again Evans, make your ft's down the stretch.Just a momentum killer the past two games.
-Clark was marginalized by their bigger guys. He's been very good, but he wasn't at his best yesterday.
-Unless they invest time in getting Broome minutes and shots, i do not think the results will be much different from recent history down the stretch. Evans and Cumberland stand their best chance of hitting open shots when they are kicked back to instead of trying to dribble their way into position to shoot. To much forcing in this offense. Frustrating given Broome has the quickness to create.

(02-19-2018 09:37 AM)Topkat Wrote:  Disappointing loss, Wichita St is good offensively.

More disappointing to me was Coach's comments after the game. Something about having to get back to doing the uncomfortable things (rebounding and defense).

We out rebounded a good WS club 27-26 (10-9 on the offensive glass). We held WS 10 points below their season average. UC had fewer turnovers for the game (13-15). UC had more steals (8-3).

The thing that killed us was coming out after the half and turning the ball over three straight times as WS extended a two point lead to nine.

But, UC will go back and work on its "D".

Frustrating, but at some point you have to realize when you play good teams, you have to score the ball, especially at home. Half court sets just get bogged down too much (that's not a new thing).

Anyway, 2 losses in a row to good teams... kind of takes the air out of things with the back loaded schedule we have.

We need to hold at two losses and steal one at WS. Go Cats.

i thought it was odd blaming the loss on the bigs not getting offensive rebounds. we rebounded 37% of our misses, just shy of our season average. wichita state only gives up 22.2% for the season, 5th best mark in the country.

(02-19-2018 09:37 AM)Topkat Wrote:  Disappointing loss, Wichita St is good offensively.

More disappointing to me was Coach's comments after the game. Something about having to get back to doing the uncomfortable things (rebounding and defense).

We out rebounded a good WS club 27-26 (10-9 on the offensive glass). We held WS 10 points below their season average. UC had fewer turnovers for the game (13-15). UC had more steals (8-3).

The thing that killed us was coming out after the half and turning the ball over three straight times as WS extended a two point lead to nine.

But, UC will go back and work on its "D".

Frustrating, but at some point you have to realize when you play good teams, you have to score the ball, especially at home. Half court sets just get bogged down too much (that's not a new thing).

Anyway, 2 losses in a row to good teams... kind of takes the air out of things with the back loaded schedule we have.

We need to hold at two losses and steal one at WS. Go Cats.

Mick said what you are alluding to: this team can't hit shots on a consistent basis, therefore need to improve their chances of scoring points by grabbing offensive rebounds and putting the ball in the hole with a dunk of laying it off the glass.

(02-19-2018 09:27 AM)cpawstoney Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 08:32 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Finally, I was disturbed by Mick's postgame comments on WLW, essentially throwing his two seniors under the bus for their performances yesterday. If that's the message in the locker room perhaps the players are tired of the tirades and have checked out emotionally. For their sake, and ours as Bearcat fans, I hope that's not the case. We'll soon know. As evidenced by several top 25 teams this week, a couple of losses won't kill the dream but it certainly damages postseason seeding which often means an easier path to the second weekend of the tournament. And I think that's one place all Bearcat fans want to see this team playing.

You can't go by local news, they highlight the stuff that makes their story. Listen to the entire interview

He's calling out the seniors. Our five big guys: Clark, Washington, Brooks, Nsoseme and Scott combined for one offensive rebounds in whole game (he says 80 minutes).

Our inside game was non-existant yesterday. Very disapponting.

The other major issue he states is lack of deflections in the second half. Poor defense.

clark was horrendous yesterday

I think Mick is kind of glossing over the fact that the need to rebound misses is because they took a lot of bad shots. If you want good clean looks clear the floor and let Broome work. He'll draw the d and they can pitch out. This deal with Evans and Cumberland trying to bull rush to an opening or the basket looks more like fball than bball. Cumberland often looks like he's trying to score touchdowns instead of baskets. You have to be smarter with your shot selection. Frustrating to watch as Broome had a step on everyone they had guarding him.

(02-19-2018 10:18 AM)Bearcat01 Wrote:  clark was horrendous yesterday

In the second half, we had no inside game yesterday, offensively or defensively

(02-19-2018 09:56 AM)CallMeSlim Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 09:37 AM)Topkat Wrote:  Disappointing loss, Wichita St is good offensively.

More disappointing to me was Coach's comments after the game. Something about having to get back to doing the uncomfortable things (rebounding and defense).

We out rebounded a good WS club 27-26 (10-9 on the offensive glass). We held WS 10 points below their season average. UC had fewer turnovers for the game (13-15). UC had more steals (8-3).

The thing that killed us was coming out after the half and turning the ball over three straight times as WS extended a two point lead to nine.

But, UC will go back and work on its "D".

Frustrating, but at some point you have to realize when you play good teams, you have to score the ball, especially at home. Half court sets just get bogged down too much (that's not a new thing).

Anyway, 2 losses in a row to good teams... kind of takes the air out of things with the back loaded schedule we have.

We need to hold at two losses and steal one at WS. Go Cats.

i thought it was odd blaming the loss on the bigs not getting offensive rebounds. we rebounded 37% of our misses, just shy of our season average. wichita state only gives up 22.2% for the season, 5th best mark in the country.

I called same thing yesterday during game Mick is saying. Stats got to get thrown out window sometimes. When it mattered most they got the key rebounds. We also much bigger than them when we go to our bench and bench bigs didnt do nothing for us at all. Defense and rebounding destroyed us yesterday.