(02-18-2018 08:39 AM)Old Blue Wrote:  If the question is; Is an 18 year old really an adult? I would have to say no. 18 year olds are children.

No, they aren't children by any stretch. However, based on maturity some act more adult than others.

(02-18-2018 09:04 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:39 AM)Old Blue Wrote:  If the question is; Is an 18 year old really an adult? I would have to say no. 18 year olds are children.

Hunh.

I'll gently disagree here.

They may not be adults, but they ain't chillin's no longer either. Tweeners, perhaps? Maybe. Sure. We still worry about and welcome/wish/look forward to anytime they come home from school.

But. It's also a time, they gotta go. If not now, when?

They're not hanging around til they're 26 or whatever, when do they get their "training"? 25?

Errrr, no.

Yeah and I remember the debate. If they were old enough to go to Vietnam, they should be able to vote. A lot of 18-19 year olds are living on their own and have families. I also remember the alcohol debate. Now I was young enough so that the draft wasn't an issue, but old enough that I could drink at 18. But the decline in vehicle deaths from drunk driving speaks for itself. There was a lot of insurance data to raise the drinking age.

I don't think the 18-21 year olds are doing most of the mass murders. They may be more likely to target schools, but older nuts target post offices and other places.

(02-18-2018 09:19 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 09:04 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:39 AM)Old Blue Wrote:  If the question is; Is an 18 year old really an adult? I would have to say no. 18 year olds are children.

Hunh.

I'll gently disagree here.

They may not be adults, but they ain't chillin's no longer either. Tweeners, perhaps? Maybe. Sure. We still worry about and welcome/wish/look forward to anytime they come home from school.

But. It's also a time, they gotta go. If not now, when?

They're not hanging around til they're 26 or whatever, when do they get their "training"? 25?

Errrr, no.

Yeah and I remember the debate. If they were old enough to go to Vietnam, they should be able to vote. A lot of 18-19 year olds are living on their own and have families. I also remember the alcohol debate. Now I was young enough so that the draft wasn't an issue, but old enough that I could drink at 18. But the decline in vehicle deaths from drunk driving speaks for itself. There was a lot of insurance data to raise the drinking age.

I don't think the 18-21 year olds are doing most of the mass murders. They may be more likely to target schools, but older nuts target post offices and other places.

Oh, as far as drinking at 18, I don't argue with the insurance data, I just think that if 18 is military deployment age, enter into legal contract age, go to adult prison age - then it should be legal drinking age........even if they do immature stupid things.

As I stated earlier, 21 might be a better age of majority.

To me, it's 21 yo to vote. 21 yo to drink. 18 yo to join the military with parent's permission, if not, 21 yo for that also.

(02-18-2018 09:26 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 09:19 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 09:04 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:39 AM)Old Blue Wrote:  If the question is; Is an 18 year old really an adult? I would have to say no. 18 year olds are children.

Hunh.

I'll gently disagree here.

They may not be adults, but they ain't chillin's no longer either. Tweeners, perhaps? Maybe. Sure. We still worry about and welcome/wish/look forward to anytime they come home from school.

But. It's also a time, they gotta go. If not now, when?

They're not hanging around til they're 26 or whatever, when do they get their "training"? 25?

Errrr, no.

Yeah and I remember the debate. If they were old enough to go to Vietnam, they should be able to vote. A lot of 18-19 year olds are living on their own and have families. I also remember the alcohol debate. Now I was young enough so that the draft wasn't an issue, but old enough that I could drink at 18. But the decline in vehicle deaths from drunk driving speaks for itself. There was a lot of insurance data to raise the drinking age.

I don't think the 18-21 year olds are doing most of the mass murders. They may be more likely to target schools, but older nuts target post offices and other places.

Oh, as far as drinking at 18, I don't argue with the insurance data, I just think that if 18 is military deployment age, enter into legal contract age, go to adult prison age - then it should be legal drinking age........even if they do immature stupid things.

As I stated earlier, 21 might be a better age of majority.

Well the problem with drinking is that other people pay the ultimate price. Thousands every year when the drinking age was 18.

(02-17-2018 03:39 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Old enough for military service and to vote. Old enough to purchase weapons. Many are in college being “groomed”. Many being “groomed” through social media.

Back in the day an 18yr old had property. Back in the day 18yr olds worked from sun up to sun down. They had skin in the game.
Now it seems skin is the game.

Jmo. 21years old is the new adult. No guns or voting till then

I agree with the historical context of the importance of the 18th year of an American life. I too, agree, that it has changed significantly. To provide more examples, recent federal laws included the expansion of the age to which dependent children may remain on their parent's healthcare plan. I believe that went to 25, if I'm not mistaken. I would like to see the data between 1970 and let's say 2015 of how many 18 year olds owned land. Additionally, even with the legal age of voting, purchasing a rifle (handguns are legally purchased at 21), purchasing cigarettes... you can't rent a car on your own accord until you hit the ripe age of 25.

I'm a proponent of raising the age of EVERYTHING to 21. Why does an 18 year old need to be able to purchase cigs? That's dumb and nothing more than long-term suicide. Make ALL gun purchases legal at 21, across the board as it virtually eliminates the possibility that any HS student would have the legal ability to purchase one. As for voting, I'm not convinced 18 year olds make sound, logical decisions and I don't think they should be voting either. Additionally, raise the age of entry into the U.S. military to 21 as well. It may reduce our force numbers, but honestly... that's needed. We're far over-extended in that realm, IMO.

The British navy conquered a quarter of the world with 15 year olds as officers.

(02-17-2018 03:39 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Old enough for military service and to vote. Old enough to purchase weapons. Many are in college being “groomed”. Many being “groomed” through social media.

Back in the day an 18yr old had property. Back in the day 18yr olds worked from sun up to sun down. They had skin in the game.
Now it seems skin is the game.

Jmo. 21years old is the new adult. No guns or voting till then

FINE the then age they can be volunteer for military service moves to 21 as well. Good luck fielding an all volunteer military if that law changes. Changing the law would also mean 21 is the youngest age to enter into contracts as well as age of consent for sex.

IMHO 18 year olds are more street smart today than they were 30 years ago. It's not a maturity issue, it's a moral compass issue. 18 year olds today don't have a definitive moral compass so they choose the path that fits the social media narrative they want to believe.

(02-18-2018 09:26 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 09:19 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 09:04 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:39 AM)Old Blue Wrote:  If the question is; Is an 18 year old really an adult? I would have to say no. 18 year olds are children.

Hunh.

I'll gently disagree here.

They may not be adults, but they ain't chillin's no longer either. Tweeners, perhaps? Maybe. Sure. We still worry about and welcome/wish/look forward to anytime they come home from school.

But. It's also a time, they gotta go. If not now, when?

They're not hanging around til they're 26 or whatever, when do they get their "training"? 25?

Errrr, no.

Yeah and I remember the debate. If they were old enough to go to Vietnam, they should be able to vote. A lot of 18-19 year olds are living on their own and have families. I also remember the alcohol debate. Now I was young enough so that the draft wasn't an issue, but old enough that I could drink at 18. But the decline in vehicle deaths from drunk driving speaks for itself. There was a lot of insurance data to raise the drinking age.

I don't think the 18-21 year olds are doing most of the mass murders. They may be more likely to target schools, but older nuts target post offices and other places.

Oh, as far as drinking at 18, I don't argue with the insurance data, I just think that if 18 is military deployment age, enter into legal contract age, go to adult prison age - then it should be legal drinking age........even if they do immature stupid things.

As I stated earlier, 21 might be a better age of majority.

Agree government can't choose one responsibility that requires age of majority to be 21 and let 18 be the age for everything else INCLUDING putting life on the line for the country.

(02-18-2018 07:18 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 09:26 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 09:19 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 09:04 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 08:39 AM)Old Blue Wrote:  If the question is; Is an 18 year old really an adult? I would have to say no. 18 year olds are children.

Hunh.

I'll gently disagree here.

They may not be adults, but they ain't chillin's no longer either. Tweeners, perhaps? Maybe. Sure. We still worry about and welcome/wish/look forward to anytime they come home from school.

But. It's also a time, they gotta go. If not now, when?

They're not hanging around til they're 26 or whatever, when do they get their "training"? 25?

Errrr, no.

Yeah and I remember the debate. If they were old enough to go to Vietnam, they should be able to vote. A lot of 18-19 year olds are living on their own and have families. I also remember the alcohol debate. Now I was young enough so that the draft wasn't an issue, but old enough that I could drink at 18. But the decline in vehicle deaths from drunk driving speaks for itself. There was a lot of insurance data to raise the drinking age.

I don't think the 18-21 year olds are doing most of the mass murders. They may be more likely to target schools, but older nuts target post offices and other places.

Oh, as far as drinking at 18, I don't argue with the insurance data, I just think that if 18 is military deployment age, enter into legal contract age, go to adult prison age - then it should be legal drinking age........even if they do immature stupid things.

As I stated earlier, 21 might be a better age of majority.

Agree government can't choose one responsibility that requires age of majority to be 21 and let 18 be the age for everything else INCLUDING putting life on the line for the country.

Yep. Hate to say it but we lose consistency in our laws any other way... buy a car, etc, etc.

(02-18-2018 03:45 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  The British navy conquered a quarter of the world with 15 year olds as officers.

They didn't have the snowflake problem we have today.

(02-18-2018 10:24 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 03:45 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  The British navy conquered a quarter of the world with 15 year olds as officers.

They didn't have the snowflake problem we have today.

Thank you! The age to own any gun should be equal to the age to vote! The pen is mightier than the sword.

(02-19-2018 12:43 AM)Dasville Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 10:24 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 03:45 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  The British navy conquered a quarter of the world with 15 year olds as officers.

They didn't have the snowflake problem we have today.

Thank you! The age to own any gun should be equal to the age to vote! The pen is mightier than the sword.

Don't thank me, I see this thread as yet another one of your many convoluted, nonsensical posts on here.

At 18 I was a certified interior firefighter and a medical first responder. I've seen hundreds more like me over the years. My next door neighbor's son was the owner of his own successful landscaping company. My cousin's son was managing their multi-million dollar poultry farm single handedly while his father was undergoing advanced cancer treatment at Duke University. I think your thought process is extremely flawed because you are making a broad ranging decision based on a small segment of the population.

(02-19-2018 08:15 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 12:43 AM)Dasville Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 10:24 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 03:45 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  The British navy conquered a quarter of the world with 15 year olds as officers.

They didn't have the snowflake problem we have today.

Thank you! The age to own any gun should be equal to the age to vote! The pen is mightier than the sword.

Don't thank me, I see this thread as yet another one of your many convoluted, nonsensical posts on here.

At 18 I was a certified interior firefighter and a medical first responder. I've seen hundreds more like me over the years. My next door neighbor's son was the owner of his own successful landscaping company. My cousin's son was managing their multi-million dollar poultry farm single handedly while his father was undergoing advanced cancer treatment at Duke University. I think your thought process is extremely flawed because you are making a broad ranging decision based on a small segment of the population.

These kids will be as old as we'll let them be. If we decide that our 20 year olds should be children, they will act like children. And what a waste of energy and creativity.

IMO, if you make your own money and pay for your own ****, you are an adult. If mommy and daddy pay for your ****, you're a minor.

Move the elections to April 15, and you cast your votes when you file your taxes. If somebody claims you on their taxes, you don't get to vote. Or drink. Or vape. Or have sex, lol.

(02-17-2018 03:39 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Old enough for military service and to vote. Old enough to purchase weapons. Many are in college being “groomed”. Many being “groomed” through social media.

Back in the day an 18yr old had property. Back in the day 18yr olds worked from sun up to sun down. They had skin in the game.
Now it seems skin is the game.

Jmo. 21years old is the new adult. No guns or voting till then

Kids are being coddled too much and for too long now, but I don't think making "21 the new adult" is the right action. If anything I think it is the wrong action.

We need to get back to teaching kids responsibility at an earlier age. In most states, kids can start part-time work at 14. Let's encourage this. Why not make their income tax free or reduce the taxes they have to pay. Another option would be putting their income earned (or match it) between 14 and 18 in an accelerated retirement or college savings account to create an incentive for them to do more than go home and play video games. I'd also support making a work history part of the requirement for college or for financial aid.

The military needs 18 and 19 year olds and lots of 18 and 19 year olds need the military. I don't think we should change the age requirements for military service. Again, I might would go the opposite direction, making draft registration mandatory for men and women, and finding a way to encourage at least a semester of ROTC or equivalent training for high school graduation. I would support limiting the ability to purchase firearms to individuals under 20 to pump action shotguns and bolt action rifles unless they are in the military, no further restrictions on the 2nd Amendment in any way.

As for the voting age, I definitely think it needs some attention. I think an individual needs to demonstrate "skin in the game" through taxes filed prior to being able to vote. I could also see raising the voting to 22 as an alternative unless an individual is in the military.

Bottom line is we need more accountability at a younger age, not less.

(02-19-2018 09:21 AM)Chappy Wrote:  IMO, if you make your own money and pay for your own ****, you are an adult. If mommy and daddy pay for your ****, you're a minor.

Move the elections to April 15, and you cast your votes when you file your taxes. If somebody claims you on their taxes, you don't get to vote. Or drink. Or vape. Or have sex, lol.

Nah, mommy and daddy paying for you doesn't make one a minor. It just makes one a lazy/spoiled adult. I bet in lots of those cases; however, the parents are to blame.

(02-18-2018 06:04 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(02-17-2018 03:45 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I can agree with that. With the way the world is designed today, people need more time "growing up" in order to handle the demands of a society that requires utilizing and communicating information to a much greater extent than decades ago.

Disagree with you here.

We did some dopey “testing” when both our kids were in pre-K. amazingly, they both came up as “hold them back, keep them in pre-k, call us back in a year and we’ll charge you again for a “test”.

Both tested in the 98-99%th percentiles. You know, apple falling far from the tree stuff and all...

Kick em outta the nest, they fluff the wings and let them grow stronger.

Cut em off. Make their own way.

Far to little of that anymore, the peers that have parent(s) that have done like are doing well, growing up, literally.
The others? Rotting in the basement or “playrooms”?

They’ll be there til they’re 30 or longer.

Got both sets on one street alone...

I'm not advocating that kids be shielded from the world until they're in their mid 20s or anything like that. My point was that many years ago people had all they needed to survive as adults by the time they hit 15-16 years of age. Schooling started when they were 5 and 6 like it does today and only learned the skill they needed to get by in life. Silversmiths, coopers, farriers, etc knew their trades by the time they were 15/16 - not masters but competent. Factory workers and miners were even easier jobs because those were unskilled labor. Contrast that to today where everyone has to have an awareness at least if not varying levels of knowledge of subjects like biology, chemistry, mathematics, history, classical civilizations, english, literature, economics, etc. That plus the knowledge needed for operating technologies has increased the age of adulthood IMHO.

Quote:18 yr old really an adult?

Yes.

Did Cruz register to vote and did he ever actually vote?