(02-19-2018 02:39 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 02:31 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 02:26 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Unless I'm completely mistaken, the original intent of the 2nd Amendment was to act as a deterrent against the gov't infringing on the rights of others via tyrannical methods. For the longest time, our access to firearms largely mirrored the access that the military and police had access to. We first started diverging with the invention of tanks, airplanes and then automatic weapons.

For all intents and purposes even *back in the day* the government was better armed. How many tall war ships did private citizens own? Really by the time of the civil war the idea of a group of civilians fighting an army on the field was on it's way out.

But....

Look at Vietnam, Iraq, .... A large armed populace fighting for their home and their liberty can be damn pesky.

I don't believe the US Army would be able to stomach a long drawn out conflict where they are gunning down their country men. Morale would collapse. Hence the current weapons people are allowed are sufficient to the task so long as enough people own them.

Even in the late 1700s, citizens did not own "ships of the line" or land based cannons. But private citizens - of means - could buy smaller sized ships like clippers armed with cannons (privateers). That at least puts them significantly closer to armament than what we have in today's world.

IDK... A Humvee with a high callibar weapon is not a tank (Ship of the line) but is very effective..

And, like I said, you can beat a better armed force if you have good tactics and if your enemy's morale is low.

Not all the people who did mass killings with the AK15 are mentally wackos.

South Carolina's church shooter was not a wack job.
The San Bernardino couple were not mentally wackos.
The Orlando night club shooter was not either.
The Texas church shooter had anger issues, and was not mentally a nutjob.
The Colorado Springs abortion clinic shooter was not mental whack job.
The mass shooting events in France used the same types of weapons were not whack jobs.
The las Vegas shooter was not one either.

(02-19-2018 03:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Not all the people who did mass killings with the AK15 are mentally wackos.

South Carolina's church shooter was not a wack job.
The San Bernardino couple were not mentally wackos.
The Orlando night club shooter was not either.
The Texas church shooter had anger issues, and was not mentally a nutjob.
The Colorado Springs abortion clinic shooter was not mental whack job.
The mass shooting events in France used the same types of weapons were not whack jobs.
The las Vegas shooter was not one either.

No AK 15 assault rifles can be legally purchased in the United States.

It is actually physically impossible to obtain an AK-15

(02-19-2018 04:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  It is actually physically impossible to obtain an AK-15

Not impossible, but obtaining one would result in a felony.

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/ak_15.htm

(02-19-2018 11:36 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 06:39 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 05:20 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 05:05 PM)Claw Wrote:  Screw him. The problem is the public school system that is churning out killers.

Yep, these rifles are not a new thing, they have been around for a LONG time now. What is a new thing is so many 17 years olds suddenly feeling to need to mass murder classmates and others.

The question is what in our culture has driven these teens in their heart to now want to mass murder their own communities?

Focusing on rifles misses the whole problem.

Many military people came out and said that the AR-15 is a military weapon which is used for war to kill people. They said these weapons are not meant for civilian use.

I realize I'm talking to a wall here but maybe we should start focusing in on the actual problem, which is WHY these kids now feel the need to mass murder their classmates.

They aren't murdering them simply because rifles exist.

Well, most of them seem to have mental issues. So it doesn't help when people want to cut spending for things like mental health programs. Not that they're a panacea, there's a ton we don't know about trying to fix mental issues. But it's a start.

We say they are crazy because they mass murdered, but the fact is many of these people are quite sane, planning these things out in great detail for many months.

They know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

(02-19-2018 04:08 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 04:04 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  It is actually physically impossible to obtain an AK-15

Not impossible, but obtaining one would result in a felony.

http://www.military-today.com/firearms/ak_15.htm

Well stand me up as stupid..... I thought he conflated 'AR-15' and an AK. Never knew an AK-15 existed. This is *awesome* fodder to befuddle them even more.....

(02-19-2018 04:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 11:36 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 06:39 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 05:20 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Yep, these rifles are not a new thing, they have been around for a LONG time now. What is a new thing is so many 17 years olds suddenly feeling to need to mass murder classmates and others.

The question is what in our culture has driven these teens in their heart to now want to mass murder their own communities?

Focusing on rifles misses the whole problem.

Many military people came out and said that the AR-15 is a military weapon which is used for war to kill people. They said these weapons are not meant for civilian use.

I realize I'm talking to a wall here but maybe we should start focusing in on the actual problem, which is WHY these kids now feel the need to mass murder their classmates.

They aren't murdering them simply because rifles exist.

Well, most of them seem to have mental issues. So it doesn't help when people want to cut spending for things like mental health programs. Not that they're a panacea, there's a ton we don't know about trying to fix mental issues. But it's a start.

We say they are crazy because they mass murdered, but the fact is many of these people are quite sane, planning these things out in great detail for many months.

They know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

There is no such thing as "crazy" in the mental health field. There is mental illness and it's broken down into several categories. But, you are correct. Being mentally ill does not make a person "stupid". Depending on there illness, many people are quite capable of planning things out in detail. They may well still be quite mentally ill. Most psychopaths and sociopaths can appear to be perfectly sane, until you explore their psyche and discover things like guilt, shame, remorse, empathy etc don't exist. It's not that they act "crazy" that distinguishes them, it's more about what's not there.

Quote:Big Republican donor says no more money if you support assault weapons

OK.

(02-19-2018 05:05 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 04:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 11:36 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 06:39 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Many military people came out and said that the AR-15 is a military weapon which is used for war to kill people. They said these weapons are not meant for civilian use.

I realize I'm talking to a wall here but maybe we should start focusing in on the actual problem, which is WHY these kids now feel the need to mass murder their classmates.

They aren't murdering them simply because rifles exist.

Well, most of them seem to have mental issues. So it doesn't help when people want to cut spending for things like mental health programs. Not that they're a panacea, there's a ton we don't know about trying to fix mental issues. But it's a start.

We say they are crazy because they mass murdered, but the fact is many of these people are quite sane, planning these things out in great detail for many months.

They know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

There is no such thing as "crazy" in the mental health field. There is mental illness and it's broken down into several categories. But, you are correct. Being mentally ill does not make a person "stupid". Depending on there illness, many people are quite capable of planning things out in detail. They may well still be quite mentally ill. Most psychopaths and sociopaths can appear to be perfectly sane, until you explore their psyche and discover things like guilt, shame, remorse, empathy etc don't exist. It's not that they act "crazy" that distinguishes them, it's more about what's not there.

The Vegas nut was certainly a thorough planner and schemer. If this Fl kook bought an AR a year out with this in mind, that's some serious planning as well. He created an alibi/reason for not going to school that day and had more magazines left over than he used. Same as Vegas, very planned.

Many of these people in fact test out or have, towards the higher areas of IQ.

I still think they're crazy muthaf$%Rers. But, maybe that's just me...

Assault weapons are already illegal. Ignorant people shouldn't have children.

(02-19-2018 04:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 11:36 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 06:39 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:46 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 05:20 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Yep, these rifles are not a new thing, they have been around for a LONG time now. What is a new thing is so many 17 years olds suddenly feeling to need to mass murder classmates and others.
The question is what in our culture has driven these teens in their heart to now want to mass murder their own communities?
Focusing on rifles misses the whole problem.

Many military people came out and said that the AR-15 is a military weapon which is used for war to kill people. They said these weapons are not meant for civilian use.

I realize I'm talking to a wall here but maybe we should start focusing in on the actual problem, which is WHY these kids now feel the need to mass murder their classmates.
They aren't murdering them simply because rifles exist.

Well, most of them seem to have mental issues. So it doesn't help when people want to cut spending for things like mental health programs. Not that they're a panacea, there's a ton we don't know about trying to fix mental issues. But it's a start.

We say they are crazy because they mass murdered, but the fact is many of these people are quite sane, planning these things out in great detail for many months.
They know exactly what they are doing and why they are doing it.

Anybody contemplating something like this for many months is not sane.

And Cruz, like most of the others, left plenty of signs where he was going. Following up on those signs would seem to be more productive than banning a gun. Particularly a gun that doesn't kill many people.

(02-18-2018 05:57 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  What is an "assault weapon"?

A hammer. A knife. A billy club. A karate kick from a black belt. A frying pan. Need I go on?

(02-19-2018 09:15 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(02-18-2018 05:57 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  What is an "assault weapon"?

A hammer. A knife. A billy club. A karate kick from a black belt. A frying pan. Need I go on?

The glare from your wife if you say the chicken is a little dry...

(02-19-2018 03:39 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Not all the people who did mass killings with the AK15 are mentally wackos.

* South Carolina's church shooter - Used a Glock 41 .45-caliber handgun
* The San Bernardino couple - Used DPMS A15 Rifle / S&W M&P15 Rifle, Llama 9mm semi-automatic pistol, Springfield XD 9mm pistol Pipe Bombs
* The Orlando night club shooter - Used SIG Sauer MCX and a 9mm Glock 17 pistol
* The Texas church shooter - Used a Ruger AR-556
* The Colorado Springs abortion clinic shooter - Used a AK-47 semi-automatic

How many AR 15s do you see there?

I see more Glock handguns than AR15s... I see more pipe bombs than AR15s....

Why do fools keep focusing on a weapon rarely used.