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Tribeheart Offline
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Post: #101
New W&M President
As long as her husband champions state of the art video boards and wifi access at Zable and Kaplan, I'm good....hup hup!

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02-22-2018 08:33 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #102
RE: New W&M President
I just want someone to be progressive and lead us to new heights. I'm not as concerned about where we end up as some have been. When the college as a whole becomes more successful the individual parts should be better off. I don't see this as a zero sum game.
02-22-2018 08:45 AM
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tribeintexas Offline
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Post: #103
RE: New W&M President
I think KR will do just fine. Give her a chance to settle in first.
02-22-2018 09:00 AM
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nogretheogre Offline
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Post: #104
RE: New W&M President
(02-22-2018 06:02 AM)Tribal Wrote:  You were the first person to use the term "diversity hire." That sounds a lot like you trying to inject a dirty term to make others look like massagonist. ...

Whats so bad about being a massagonist? Is that a synonym for masochist or maybe someone who gives massages, but wants to save space on their business card?
02-22-2018 09:01 AM
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Tribe2011 Offline
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Post: #105
RE: New W&M President
(02-22-2018 07:30 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Perjorative. Embarrassing. Some folks need to lighten up, turn off the PC meter, and start using their brains. Observe and think ... tone down the emotion.

I always love the all too common move of making an offensive insinuation and then throwing a hissy fit when called out for it. Damn snowflakes.
02-22-2018 09:24 AM
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Tribe3455 Offline
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Post: #106
RE: New W&M President
The arguments back and forth on this subject are ridiculous. One person wrote that based on her biography, this looks like a diversity hire. It was a really thoughtful post that was hard to argue with. He didn't say it was a bad hire. Didn't say she was going to be a bad president. Anyone that thinks gender, inclusivity, diversity didn't play a part in this decision is just ignoring current events. It also doesn't mean it was a bad hire. In fact, in many ways, it makes KR a good hire. The committee chose her. She was the best choice based on what they were looking for. That's how all of us who aren't self-employed were chosen for our positions. We were the best option based on fit at the time we were hired. (I think Tribal made this point very clearly comparing to college admissions) KR may be a great president that supports athletics as well. But nobody knows. Just because a few pointed out her inexperience with a D1 athletic department under her (or even at the schools she worked for) is not disparaging. Hoping for someone with that kind of background actually makes sense. Doesn't it? But the inference that some made that this means they believe she was inferior is quite a stretch.
02-22-2018 11:50 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #107
RE: New W&M President
Hope the hire works out well for W&M. People used similar language to describe our current President Alger because he was a "diversity attorney" before coming to JMU. He's done especially well correcting faculty pay issues. He is not an exceptionally bold leader otherwise. He literally kept EVERY SINGLE senior staff member from the previous administration.

Not that this means anything for W&M, just a tangentially related factoid.
02-22-2018 11:56 AM
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ttgwm02 Offline
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Post: #108
RE: New W&M President
My initial reaction was similar to many - Bryn Mawr and Smith are small, wealthy, single-sex institutions in the Northeast that cater to a very different student population than William & Mary. The student body at both schools is a mixture of very wealthy students, and students receiving significant financial aid. Very few "upper middle class" attendees. The donor bases for these institutions are culturally and politically homogenous, making fund-raising easier. Further, the key donors to these institutions are often transferring generational wealth. Very few Joe Plumeri-type donors in their Rolodex. The faculty are highly qualified, but there are no meaningful programs in "practical" disciplines, and the political orientation of the faculty at both institutions is nearly universal.

My ex-girlfriend was a non-traditional student who interviewed at both schools after completing her associate's degree when I was practicing law in New York. All of the "seven sisters" offer programs for transfer students in similar circumstances; we toured both schools and I found the campuses to be unpleasant, unfriendly, and snobby. I never considered W&M an overtly "friendly" place, but this was different. The best way I could describe many of the students I encountered was "Neiman Marxist." (SF, I know you will laugh seeing me write this). I also had concerns about hiring a President that, in thirty years of academia, may have never taught, disciplined, or interacted with a male student. (Bryn Mawr does occasionally have students from Haverford or Swarthmore audit classes, but it is rare). And like many of you, I did not see any background in intercollegiate athletics.

However, after a few days to reconsider, I realized that many of the Board must have had similar concerns. They are all sharp people. If they considered these things, and ultimately agreed she was the best and most qualified choice - she deserves the chance to prove herself. Go Tribe.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2018 12:35 PM by ttgwm02.)
02-22-2018 12:32 PM
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zablenoise Online
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Post: #109
RE: New W&M President
(02-22-2018 12:32 PM)ttgwm02 Wrote:  My initial reaction was similar to many - Bryn Mawr and Smith are small, wealthy, single-sex institutions in the Northeast that cater to a very different student population than William & Mary. The student body at both schools is a mixture of very wealthy students, and students receiving significant financial aid. Very few "upper middle class" attendees. The donor bases for these institutions are culturally and politically homogenous, making fund-raising easier. Further, the key donors to these institutions are often transferring generational wealth. Very few Joe Plumeri-type donors in their Rolodex. The faculty are highly qualified, but there are no meaningful programs in "practical" disciplines, and the political orientation of the faculty at both institutions is nearly universal.

My ex-girlfriend was a non-traditional student who interviewed at both schools after completing her associate's degree when I was practicing law in New York. All of the "seven sisters" offer programs for transfer students in similar circumstances; we toured both schools and I found the campuses to be unpleasant, unfriendly, and snobby. The best way I could describe many of the students I encountered was "Neiman Marxist." (SF, I know you will laugh seeing me write this). I also had concerns about hiring a President that, in thirty years of academia, may have never taught, disciplined, or interacted with a male student. (Bryn Mawr does occasionally have students from Haverford or Swarthmore audit classes, but it is rare). And like many of you, I did not see any background in intercollegiate athletics.

However, after a few days to reconsider, I realized that many of the Board must have had similar concerns. They are all sharp people. If they considered these things, and ultimately agreed she was the best and most qualified choice - she deserves the chance to prove herself. Go Tribe.
Fantastic post.

I think I'm coming around to where you are but I still have an issue getting over the Smith of it all. Smith. I just didn't see that coming.

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02-22-2018 12:36 PM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #110
RE: New W&M President
(02-22-2018 09:24 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 07:30 AM)nj alum Wrote:  Perjorative. Embarrassing. Some folks need to lighten up, turn off the PC meter, and start using their brains. Observe and think ... tone down the emotion.

I always love the all too common move of making an offensive insinuation and then throwing a hissy fit when called out for it. Damn snowflakes.

I always love the all too common move of characterizing a statement as offensive, and then labeling the pushback as a hissy fit.

But I agree with you on one thing you said.

Damn snowflakes.

:-)
02-22-2018 01:57 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #111
New W&M President
Here is a link to Rowes' speech in case you missed it.

http://www.wm.edu/news/stories/2018/rema...e-rowe.php

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02-23-2018 10:30 AM
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tribetime10 Offline
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Post: #112
RE: New W&M President
Article from VA Pilot's Editorial Board this AM about the selection and the tricky terrain that Rowe will need to navigate:

https://pilotonline.com/opinion/editoria...53dee.html
02-23-2018 10:41 AM
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soccerguy315 Offline
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Post: #113
RE: New W&M President
(02-22-2018 06:02 AM)Tribal Wrote:  You were the first person to use the term "diversity hire." That sounds a lot like you trying to inject a dirty term to make others look like massagonist. No one said diversity hire...two of us pointed out her documented history of working with a population consisting of 100% women. Rowe even made a point to remind us that W&M first admitted women a hundred years ago and that she us the first woman President.

The College teased the announcement as "historic," so her sex was clearly on the schools' mind regarding the introduction. W&M also makes it a point to celebrate a so-in-so increase in minority and female applicants and those admitted each year. That's fantastic. It's a stated goal of the school to increase the number of minority students. To be more diverse.

No one here said she was hired because she's a woman or that she or any other woman is an inferior candidate. That's you trying to stir the pot. People aren't always hired because they are the best candidate. Does that make them inferior or is it fairly possible that they were the best fit? Do you really think that you produced better test scores or earned better grades than every person not admitted to W&M? Or, is it acceptable to recognize the truth that the admissions staff thought you were a better fit? I'm confident that there were probably hundreds of applicants who looked better than me on paper when I applied to grad school but I happened to have one thing that, I think, set me apart and made me a better fit. Does that make me inferior?

You like soccer, right? Are you aware that Baron Trump was recently placed on the DC United Academy roster? Do you realize how difficult it is to be selected to that squad? That's the elite of elite as for as national youth soccer. Now tell me, do you really think he is a better soccer player than every kid who didn't make the squad? Maybe it had to do with influence. Or cash. Or maybe he has a niche as a shutdown holding midfielder...something the team really needed. That hardly makes him an inferior player. Nothing to support that, anyway.

I don't know if Rowe was the superior candidate. How could I know that? Same reason I would never...ever...claim she is inferior or that she was hired because she was a woman. Maybe 7 of the 10 candidates were women? Do you know? I don't. My single criticism is that I don't think she appears to be as concerned as I would like about athletics. I'll bet she wouldn't consider anything I wrote to be bashing...unlike a few of my fellow posters. She understands that she's a professional, confident adult who won't make everyone pleased all of the time. Same with our AD...we discussed the hire. Some praised. Some were skeptical. Everyone on this board had an opinion. Shame on you for saying some gave our AD crap for the same reason as Rowe. You have zero access to how or why people think the way they do unless they tell you. If you can't produce a single piece of evidence to support your claim that someone on here doesn't like Huge or Rowe because they are women, then I think you owe an apology. I'm seeing quite a bit of projection in your post.

We are entitled to our initial thoughts on a given hire. I've stated my one concern and I'm hoping on hope that Rowe is the best president W&M has ever had. What I don't have is some creepy agenda.

Actually, you are wrong. "Diversity hire" was mentioned in post #49, and I did not post in the thread until post #54.

Thank you for acknowledging that it is a "dirty term" and "massagonist" (sic) though. Now you can feel free to direct your comments to where it actually came from, which is not from me.

Please feel free to apologize for accusing me of having a "creepy agenda" and accusing me of being the first one to use the term "diversity hire". I do not owe anyone an apology for quoting their own words.

Quote:I'll be honest ... this diversity push has consumed higher education, IMO. It was in the recent athletics survey, for goodness sakes. We all knew that this was coming (I'll duck ... fire away).

Biographically, this has all of the appearances of being a diversity hire.

All I did is read what other people wrote and respond to it. Maybe you have certain posters blocked, I don't know.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 08:25 AM by soccerguy315.)
02-24-2018 08:20 AM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #114
RE: New W&M President
(02-24-2018 08:20 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  Actually, you are wrong. "Diversity hire" was mentioned in post #49, and I did not post in the thread until post #54.

Thank you for acknowledging that it is a "dirty term" and "massagonist" (sic) though. Now you can feel free to direct your comments to where it actually came from, which is not from me.

Please feel free to apologize for accusing me of having a "creepy agenda" and accusing me of being the first one to use the term "diversity hire". I do not owe anyone an apology for quoting their own words.

Quote:I'll be honest ... this diversity push has consumed higher education, IMO. It was in the recent athletics survey, for goodness sakes. We all knew that this was coming (I'll duck ... fire away).

Biographically, this has all of the appearances of being a diversity hire.

All I did is read what other people wrote and respond to it. Maybe you have certain posters blocked, I don't know.

After I used the terms higher education diversity push, and a biographical appearance of a diversity hire in post #49, I supported my opinion in post #99.

In post #99, among other links, I linked the W&M staff's request for diversity in the search process, the Rector's comments about diversity in the hire, and the incoming President's comments about the virtues of diversity.

In post #99, among other links, I linked an article about diversity hiring in which that specific term was used.

In post #99, among other links, I linked a presentation before the EEOC in which objection was taken to current diversity hiring practices, and the diversity push.

In post #100, the moderator indicated that folks wouldn't read the links. He was right. Obviously, you haven't read the links that I attached, and continue to fan the flames on this issue.

Just because someone holds a different view point, that doesn't make them, or their viewpoint, "dirty".

If you want to continue this, I'm game.

Regardless, for the third time, I support the hire; I have never said otherwise, nor do I think otherwise, nor do I insinuate otherwise. Does that cover it?

:-)
02-24-2018 09:17 AM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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Post: #115
RE: New W&M President
She was at the UNCW game this afternoon...stayed for the entire 45 minutes!
02-24-2018 07:31 PM
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tribelifer Offline
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RE: New W&M President
So, is that a bad sign for basketball?
02-24-2018 08:43 PM
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Tribal Offline
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RE: New W&M President
(02-24-2018 07:31 PM)BigTribe3 Wrote:  She was at the UNCW game this afternoon...stayed for the entire 45 minutes!
<snicker>

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(This post was last modified: 02-24-2018 09:24 PM by Tribal.)
02-24-2018 08:44 PM
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billymac Offline
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Post: #118
RE: New W&M President
(02-24-2018 08:43 PM)tribelifer Wrote:  So, is that a bad sign for basketball?

I think BigTribe meant "Charleston"...maybe...

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02-24-2018 09:11 PM
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bubbadog57 Offline
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RE: New W&M President
Sorry, of course was yesterday's Charleston game. By the way, she was directly in front of us and, even though in the front row, stood like everyone else in crunch time and was really into the game. May not signify anything, but surely a hopeful sign.
02-25-2018 07:04 AM
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ttgwm02 Offline
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RE: New W&M President
(02-22-2018 12:36 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  
(02-22-2018 12:32 PM)ttgwm02 Wrote:  My initial reaction was similar to many - Bryn Mawr and Smith are small, wealthy, single-sex institutions in the Northeast that cater to a very different student population than William & Mary. The student body at both schools is a mixture of very wealthy students, and students receiving significant financial aid. Very few "upper middle class" attendees. The donor bases for these institutions are culturally and politically homogenous, making fund-raising easier. Further, the key donors to these institutions are often transferring generational wealth. Very few Joe Plumeri-type donors in their Rolodex. The faculty are highly qualified, but there are no meaningful programs in "practical" disciplines, and the political orientation of the faculty at both institutions is nearly universal.

My ex-girlfriend was a non-traditional student who interviewed at both schools after completing her associate's degree when I was practicing law in New York. All of the "seven sisters" offer programs for transfer students in similar circumstances; we toured both schools and I found the campuses to be unpleasant, unfriendly, and snobby. The best way I could describe many of the students I encountered was "Neiman Marxist." (SF, I know you will laugh seeing me write this). I also had concerns about hiring a President that, in thirty years of academia, may have never taught, disciplined, or interacted with a male student. (Bryn Mawr does occasionally have students from Haverford or Swarthmore audit classes, but it is rare). And like many of you, I did not see any background in intercollegiate athletics.

However, after a few days to reconsider, I realized that many of the Board must have had similar concerns. They are all sharp people. If they considered these things, and ultimately agreed she was the best and most qualified choice - she deserves the chance to prove herself. Go Tribe.
Fantastic post.

I think I'm coming around to where you are but I still have an issue getting over the Smith of it all. Smith. I just didn't see that coming.

Sent from my VS500 using Tapatalk

I agree. Yet as I've considered it, I have no question that Rowe is highly intelligent and was extremely well-prepared for the interviews. I'm sure she was coached and prepared for questions about the vast distinction between the institutions where she has spent the majority of her career and William & Mary.

What will ultimately determine the success of her administration is how she adapts to a very different environment. It is much easier for someone of her intelligence and pedigree to charm a relatively homogenous subcommittee of the Board of Visitors than to navigate the murky waters of Virginia politics and lead an institution with a much more diverse group of stakeholders than either Smith or Bryn Mawr.

Part of what in my opinion made Taylor Reveley so successful was that his experience as Managing Partner of Hunton & Williams gave him strong political connections in Richmond, experience at managing a divergent group of stakeholders, and instant respect from donors, regardless of whether the donor was self-made or transferring an inheritance. His personality helped tremendously, but these experiences made him ideal for the job.

Rowe's background makes her an outsider in Virginia (unfortunately, like Terry Sullivan at UVA) and she will need to acclimate quickly. Sullivan also had much more experience in leading state universities after her tenure at Michigan. Hopefully, other skills Rowe developed will assist in this process. I note that UVA hired Jim Ryan as its new President (a double Hoo who also taught at the Law School); I hope Rowe has a more stable tenure than Sullivan.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2018 12:16 PM by ttgwm02.)
02-25-2018 12:14 PM
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