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Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #41
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:22 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 11:17 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 11:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 11:08 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  If so then they can cut teachers. My child is more important than someone's job.

Right...more students per classroom. Delusional.

My child alive and safe >>>>>>>> My child having to deal with less personal attention. My wife and I can make up the difference in her education quality because we aren't hands-off parents and understand her education is our responsibility and not the state's.

If you bring dozens of guns into thousands of schools, you're child will be in way more danger than they are now with doing nothing.

My child is in no more danger from a properly vetted teacher being armed than she is right now. Liberals act as if having a gun makes a person turn from a perfectly normal human being into a psychopath. Do you really believe guns make people go crazy?

Wrong. Accidents happen. I'm not talking about the teacher turning...although you going to guarantee that one won't have a mental issue and do something rash at some point? Additionally, at some point a student is going to get their hands on said gun. You can't deny that if you add dozens of guns into over a hundred thousand schools. It will happen.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 12:33 PM by Redwingtom.)
02-23-2018 12:31 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If you bring dozens of guns into thousands of schools, you're child will be in way more danger than they are now with doing nothing.

You're getting the vapours over the thought of letting school staff carry guns for self-defense? Then this is your alternative; lives dependent on the frailty of human nature of a non-responsive SRO, or relying on an armed response arriving even just one minute too late, to defend them from the depravity of human nature.

Secure the entrances. Arm the guards. Arm the teachers. Arm the administrators. Give those kids a chance.................
02-23-2018 12:32 PM
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #43
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:32 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If you bring dozens of guns into thousands of schools, you're child will be in way more danger than they are now with doing nothing.

You're getting the vapours over the thought of letting school staff carry guns for self-defense? Then this is your alternative; lives dependent on the frailty of human nature of a non-responsive SRO, or relying on an armed response arriving even just one minute too late, to defend them from the depravity of human nature.

Secure the entrances. Arm the guards. Arm the teachers. Arm the administrators. Give those kids a chance.................

LS, are you denying the facts that people with guns in the home are at greater risk of injury from that gun then they are from any intruder's gun?
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 12:35 PM by Redwingtom.)
02-23-2018 12:35 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  LS, are you denying the facts that people with guns in the home are at greater risk of injury from that gun then they are from any intruder's gun?

Nope. But you cannot dismiss that firearms also protect individuals and prevent violence.

It's not some magical talisman that will guide us to a better place but why not use one of human nature’s more automatic traits – self-preservation – to our kids advantage?
02-23-2018 12:41 PM
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #45
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:41 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  LS, are you denying the facts that people with guns in the home are at greater risk of injury from that gun then they are from any intruder's gun?

Nope. But you cannot dismiss that firearms also protect individuals and prevent violence.

It's not some magical talisman that will guide us to a better place but why not use one of human nature’s more automatic traits – self-preservation – to our kids advantage?

Because it doesn't work that way. Look at the stats of successfully hitting targets by trained police officials. Now you expect teachers to do that work that the police don't do all that well? Puhleeze!

In fact you just saw an example of that in Florida. They had a guy with a gun there and his self-preservation trait was to wait and not go directly into the fray.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 12:47 PM by Redwingtom.)
02-23-2018 12:45 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-22-2018 05:11 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  How much would it cost to have a number of armed guards at every school in the country?

You DON'T need armed policemen on campus. You need to make it clear that if you make the effort to go shooting up a school that THERE WILL BE ARMED PERSONNEL around and you won't know who they are. You will need to have ONLY ONE entrance after the bell rings. You will be searched at that time if you look suspicious or are carrying more school supplies than you need. You will have someone BEHIND you while you are being searched. You will have cameras that monitor anyone wanting to come in through another not sanctioned entrance. ONLY one entrance after the bell rings and only that door will be allowed to be opened by an electric door lock. All other doors will be wired to remain closed at all times except when at the beginning of the day and at the close of the school day. No one can leave or enter the premises after the bell because the door won't open because like I stated before it will be electronically controlled by someone inside the office. If that office member disobeys that order that person will face stiff penalties. The fear of losing money or job will force that person to abide by that rule.

We don't need any more lackadaisical thinking in something this serious.

One time during basic training I had guard duty outside our only sanctioned entrance to our barracks. A tech sergeant tried to intimidate me into opening the door through yelling and screaming. I love that I had the rule book on my side and I was doubly glad that I could keep this jerk outside the door through all his tantrum. I didn't smile I'm smarter than that. But he didn't come in. My TA yelled out his office door to let him in. He started laughing at the Tsgt because I didn't give in. I earned my TA's respect that day and other ensuing days. This is what will be needed at office schools, no budging on the rules.
02-23-2018 12:45 PM
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hoopfan Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:32 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If you bring dozens of guns into thousands of schools, you're child will be in way more danger than they are now with doing nothing.

You're getting the vapours over the thought of letting school staff carry guns for self-defense? Then this is your alternative; lives dependent on the frailty of human nature of a non-responsive SRO, or relying on an armed response arriving even just one minute too late, to defend them from the depravity of human nature.

Secure the entrances. Arm the guards. Arm the teachers. Arm the administrators. Give those kids a chance.................

LS, are you denying the facts that people with guns in the home are at greater risk of injury from that gun then they are from any intruder's gun?

Just go to your bottom line argument already. "repeal the 2nd amendment." leftists always dance around arguments instead of just hitting the bottom line of what they want because they know they will get few to no votes. (And I am referring to almost all issues)
02-23-2018 12:47 PM
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49RFootballNow Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:41 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  LS, are you denying the facts that people with guns in the home are at greater risk of injury from that gun then they are from any intruder's gun?

Nope. But you cannot dismiss that firearms also protect individuals and prevent violence.

It's not some magical talisman that will guide us to a better place but why not use one of human nature’s more automatic traits – self-preservation – to our kids advantage?

Because it doesn't work that way. Look at the stats of successfully hitting targets by trained police officials. Now you expect teachers to do that work that the police don't do all that well? Puhleeze!

It's about prevention. Even suicide gunmen want to go out taking as many as they can with them. If they think there's a good chance they'll get dropped by an armed teacher after shooting off a few bullets, maybe they'll just put the barrel in their own mouths instead and leave the rest of us alone.
02-23-2018 12:47 PM
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #49
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:47 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:32 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  If you bring dozens of guns into thousands of schools, you're child will be in way more danger than they are now with doing nothing.

You're getting the vapours over the thought of letting school staff carry guns for self-defense? Then this is your alternative; lives dependent on the frailty of human nature of a non-responsive SRO, or relying on an armed response arriving even just one minute too late, to defend them from the depravity of human nature.

Secure the entrances. Arm the guards. Arm the teachers. Arm the administrators. Give those kids a chance.................

LS, are you denying the facts that people with guns in the home are at greater risk of injury from that gun then they are from any intruder's gun?

Just go to your bottom line argument already. "repeal the 2nd amendment." leftists always dance around arguments instead of just hitting the bottom line of what they want because they know they will get few to no votes. (And I am referring to almost all issues)

Because you don't need to repeal it, nor am I advocating for that.

Additionally, our Constitution and country's history both show that even the most basic rights of our country are allowed to be limited and altered for the good of the whole.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2018 12:51 PM by Redwingtom.)
02-23-2018 12:51 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:41 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(02-23-2018 12:35 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  LS, are you denying the facts that people with guns in the home are at greater risk of injury from that gun then they are from any intruder's gun?

Nope. But you cannot dismiss that firearms also protect individuals and prevent violence.

It's not some magical talisman that will guide us to a better place but why not use one of human nature’s more automatic traits – self-preservation – to our kids advantage?

Because it doesn't work that way. Look at the stats of successfully hitting targets by trained police officials. Now you expect teachers to do that work that the police don't do all that well? Puhleeze!

In fact you just saw an example of that in Florida. They had a guy with a gun there and his self-preservation trait was to wait and not go directly into the fray.

Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self defense.
02-23-2018 01:02 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 12:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Because it doesn't work that way. Look at the stats of successfully hitting targets by trained police officials. Now you expect teachers to do that work that the police don't do all that well? Puhleeze!

Shite, I can barely put rounds on a small target with my (now lost in a terrible, terrible canoe accident in a very deep lake) 9MM at ten yards.

But hitting the target is not the point! The job is to get in there and put shots on target. ALL the data shows that is all that is needed. Shots on target. It may just buy some children a lifetime of looking back at a psychological trauma rather than a lifetime measured in seconds.

Now, if you’re a teacher, you have options for how you carry out that responsibility. I’m the last person who’ll ever tell you how you’re “supposed” to do it. But those that want, and pass the training, the responsibility to conceal and carry in schools have my complete support. We can judge their actions or lack thereof after the fact.

(02-23-2018 12:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  In fact you just saw an example of that in Florida. They had a guy with a gun there and his self-preservation trait was to wait and not go directly into the fray.

Not charging toward gunfire is a pretty normal human reaction but this was a trained deputy. Disappointing for sure and I've read recently that up to 10% of police and military immediately freeze up in a firefight. I am willing to support the other 90%.
02-23-2018 01:05 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
I like how the leftist hoplophobes bring up Parkland as the concrete example and ignore Texas, where a civilian not even at the church took up arms and ran towards the gunfire putting a stop to it.

Or how they ignore the Garland Texas officer who engaged and contained two armed terrorists planning on attacking an event as people were leaving until they could be taken out by a SWAT sniper.

Or the Roseburg Oregon officers who engaged Chris Mercer.
02-23-2018 01:28 PM
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #53
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 01:05 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Now, if you’re a teacher, you have options for how you carry out that responsibility. I’m the last person who’ll ever tell you how you’re “supposed” to do it. But those that want, and pass the training, the responsibility to conceal and carry in schools have my complete support. We can judge their actions or lack thereof after the fact.

Not totally opposed to this, but I'd still prefer it be a non-teacher.
02-23-2018 01:42 PM
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Redwingtom Online
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Post: #54
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 01:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I like how the leftist hoplophobes bring up Parkland as the concrete example and ignore Texas, where a civilian not even at the church took up arms and ran towards the gunfire putting a stop to it.

Or how they ignore the Garland Texas officer who engaged and contained two armed terrorists planning on attacking an event as people were leaving until they could be taken out by a SWAT sniper.

Or the Roseburg Oregon officers who engaged Chris Mercer.

Nobody is ignoring those. It's clearly the exception rather than the rule for trained officers. But we're talking about teachers here...it only stands to reason that they would be more apt to freeze that a trained officer.
02-23-2018 01:44 PM
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Post: #55
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
If just having someone engaging a shooter buys time for a victim to exit the area then that CCW person has done his job. Unfortunately, that was not the case in Florida. That cop could have given the shooter a different target because his focus would have swerved to the cop and not unprotected kids.
02-23-2018 01:44 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
(02-23-2018 01:44 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  If just having someone engaging a shooter buys time for a victim to exit the area then that CCW person has done his job. Unfortunately, that was not the case in Florida. That cop could have given the shooter a different target because his focus would have swerved to the cop and not unprotected kids.

Exactly!
02-23-2018 01:55 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #57
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
Knowing that there were going to be armed security present would possibly have discouraged Cruz from even trying, and would surely have discouraged others.
02-23-2018 04:27 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #58
RE: Wayne LaPierre Asks if We Love 'Celebrities More Than...Our Children'
Get rid of all the social engineering programs, get back to the three R’s and the classroom, and use the savings to build access restrictions and hire trained, armed security guards.
02-23-2018 04:29 PM
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