And what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.


I think ESPN will be interested in helping advance the SEC's cause because it's their tentpole college property and the SEC Network has been very successful.

I do think, however, that it may be necessary to go to 20 because the SEC will be on an island when it comes to being interested in changing the rule structure in order to allow for 3 divisions. That and ESPN may need some help securing key properties for their broader plan.

Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes. It may be necessary to take Texas Tech and Oklahoma State as well in order to secure those moves. The two other schools that I think ESPN would be most interested in securing would be West Virginia and Kansas. Both of those should pay dividends in a world where individual viewers matter more than particular markets. The SEC takes those 6.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

As far as divisional alignment goes, these wouldn't represent 4 divisions...just pods. You could play 11 conference games in this structure and maintain a simple divisional structure...the winners of 2 matched pods meet in Atlanta. The 4 from your own pod are annual, then a permanent rival from each of the other 3, and the final 4 schools from one of the other pods in a given season.

Now, it's time to rebuild the Big 12. Why? The brand value of a Power league will help elevate the ratings for the additions so that the league won't lose as much cache.

I don't think we're quite to the point where a P4 model can take over because there's so much uncertainty in the marketplace. The CFP contract will run for several more years and I think there will be significant hurdles in creating a champs-only model even when that contract ends. That and the 5th Power league allows for some additional drama in the CFP race. If nothing else, it creates the opportunity for a Cinderella story which college fans seem to love more than just about anything.

Legacy members: TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State

New members: BYU, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, East Carolina, and Wichita State as a non-football member.

That's a solid 14 + 1 that will have somewhat decent money and decent content. That could be very beneficial to ESPN's coffers as no further investment in the ACC would be required while the Big 12 would likely be wholly owned by the network.

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.

1. ESPN will pay the ACC just enough to stay together and relevant since their product fills so much Air time and a great profit.

2. Big 12 pieces will do what is best for themselves by choice or if forced

3. There are some good pieces in the Big 12 that can help the SEC. the six schools you referenced were also the ones I would look at if the sec added more members.

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.


I think ESPN will be interested in helping advance the SEC's cause because it's their tentpole college property and the SEC Network has been very successful.

I do think, however, that it may be necessary to go to 20 because the SEC will be on an island when it comes to being interested in changing the rule structure in order to allow for 3 divisions. That and ESPN may need some help securing key properties for their broader plan.

Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes. It may be necessary to take Texas Tech and Oklahoma State as well in order to secure those moves. The two other schools that I think ESPN would be most interested in securing would be West Virginia and Kansas. Both of those should pay dividends in a world where individual viewers matter more than particular markets. The SEC takes those 6.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

As far as divisional alignment goes, these wouldn't represent 4 divisions...just pods. You could play 11 conference games in this structure and maintain a simple divisional structure...the winners of 2 matched pods meet in Atlanta. The 4 from your own pod are annual, then a permanent rival from each of the other 3, and the final 4 schools from one of the other pods in a given season.

Now, it's time to rebuild the Big 12. Why? The brand value of a Power league will help elevate the ratings for the additions so that the league won't lose as much cache.

I don't think we're quite to the point where a P4 model can take over because there's so much uncertainty in the marketplace. The CFP contract will run for several more years and I think there will be significant hurdles in creating a champs-only model even when that contract ends. That and the 5th Power league allows for some additional drama in the CFP race. If nothing else, it creates the opportunity for a Cinderella story which college fans seem to love more than just about anything.

Legacy members: TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State

New members: BYU, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, East Carolina, and Wichita State as a non-football member.

That's a solid 14 + 1 that will have somewhat decent money and decent content. That could be very beneficial to ESPN's coffers as no further investment in the ACC would be required while the Big 12 would likely be wholly owned by the network.

you said rebuild the B12 after both the Longhorns and Sooners leave... that is simply unpossible.

Seriously, even if they were paid the same (and I can't why ESPN would do that) the perceived loss of relevance would be unacceptable to the likes of Baylor and KSU IMO.

(02-25-2018 08:22 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.

1. ESPN will pay the ACC just enough to stay together and relevant since their product fills so much Air time and a great profit.

2. Big 12 pieces will do what is best for themselves by choice or if forced

3. There are some good pieces in the Big 12 that can help the SEC. the six schools you referenced were also the ones I would look at if the sec added more members.

I have no issues with the Texa-homa schools and Kansas. The debate would be over #6. Iowa State has 3.2 million in population, they are AAU, their average attendance is not too far off from W.V.U.'s, and their economic impact valuation is higher.

West Virginia has 1,8 million in population, is not AAU, their average attendance is in the high 50's, and their economic impact valuation is the 2nd worst in the P5 behind Wake Forest. The only metric they have over Iowa State is gross total revenue which is 93 million to ISU's 78 million range.

(02-25-2018 08:41 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.


I think ESPN will be interested in helping advance the SEC's cause because it's their tentpole college property and the SEC Network has been very successful.

I do think, however, that it may be necessary to go to 20 because the SEC will be on an island when it comes to being interested in changing the rule structure in order to allow for 3 divisions. That and ESPN may need some help securing key properties for their broader plan.

Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes. It may be necessary to take Texas Tech and Oklahoma State as well in order to secure those moves. The two other schools that I think ESPN would be most interested in securing would be West Virginia and Kansas. Both of those should pay dividends in a world where individual viewers matter more than particular markets. The SEC takes those 6.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

As far as divisional alignment goes, these wouldn't represent 4 divisions...just pods. You could play 11 conference games in this structure and maintain a simple divisional structure...the winners of 2 matched pods meet in Atlanta. The 4 from your own pod are annual, then a permanent rival from each of the other 3, and the final 4 schools from one of the other pods in a given season.

Now, it's time to rebuild the Big 12. Why? The brand value of a Power league will help elevate the ratings for the additions so that the league won't lose as much cache.

I don't think we're quite to the point where a P4 model can take over because there's so much uncertainty in the marketplace. The CFP contract will run for several more years and I think there will be significant hurdles in creating a champs-only model even when that contract ends. That and the 5th Power league allows for some additional drama in the CFP race. If nothing else, it creates the opportunity for a Cinderella story which college fans seem to love more than just about anything.

Legacy members: TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State

New members: BYU, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, East Carolina, and Wichita State as a non-football member.

That's a solid 14 + 1 that will have somewhat decent money and decent content. That could be very beneficial to ESPN's coffers as no further investment in the ACC would be required while the Big 12 would likely be wholly owned by the network.

you said rebuild the B12 after both the Longhorns and Sooners leave... that is simply unpossible.

Seriously, even if they were paid the same (and I can't why ESPN would do that) the perceived loss of relevance would be unacceptable to the likes of Baylor and KSU IMO.

It won't matter by 2023. If the GOR hasn't been renewed the little 8 are pretty well hosed unless big brother throws them a rope.

(02-25-2018 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 08:41 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.


I think ESPN will be interested in helping advance the SEC's cause because it's their tentpole college property and the SEC Network has been very successful.

I do think, however, that it may be necessary to go to 20 because the SEC will be on an island when it comes to being interested in changing the rule structure in order to allow for 3 divisions. That and ESPN may need some help securing key properties for their broader plan.

Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes. It may be necessary to take Texas Tech and Oklahoma State as well in order to secure those moves. The two other schools that I think ESPN would be most interested in securing would be West Virginia and Kansas. Both of those should pay dividends in a world where individual viewers matter more than particular markets. The SEC takes those 6.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

As far as divisional alignment goes, these wouldn't represent 4 divisions...just pods. You could play 11 conference games in this structure and maintain a simple divisional structure...the winners of 2 matched pods meet in Atlanta. The 4 from your own pod are annual, then a permanent rival from each of the other 3, and the final 4 schools from one of the other pods in a given season.

Now, it's time to rebuild the Big 12. Why? The brand value of a Power league will help elevate the ratings for the additions so that the league won't lose as much cache.

I don't think we're quite to the point where a P4 model can take over because there's so much uncertainty in the marketplace. The CFP contract will run for several more years and I think there will be significant hurdles in creating a champs-only model even when that contract ends. That and the 5th Power league allows for some additional drama in the CFP race. If nothing else, it creates the opportunity for a Cinderella story which college fans seem to love more than just about anything.

Legacy members: TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State

New members: BYU, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, East Carolina, and Wichita State as a non-football member.

That's a solid 14 + 1 that will have somewhat decent money and decent content. That could be very beneficial to ESPN's coffers as no further investment in the ACC would be required while the Big 12 would likely be wholly owned by the network.

you said rebuild the B12 after both the Longhorns and Sooners leave... that is simply unpossible.

Seriously, even if they were paid the same (and I can't why ESPN would do that) the perceived loss of relevance would be unacceptable to the likes of Baylor and KSU IMO.

It won't matter by 2023. If the GOR hasn't been renewed the little 8 are pretty well hosed unless big brother throws them a rope.

I'm beginning to think that the network may not be inclined to pay the freight on "little brothers".

(02-25-2018 09:34 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 08:41 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.


I think ESPN will be interested in helping advance the SEC's cause because it's their tentpole college property and the SEC Network has been very successful.

I do think, however, that it may be necessary to go to 20 because the SEC will be on an island when it comes to being interested in changing the rule structure in order to allow for 3 divisions. That and ESPN may need some help securing key properties for their broader plan.

Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes. It may be necessary to take Texas Tech and Oklahoma State as well in order to secure those moves. The two other schools that I think ESPN would be most interested in securing would be West Virginia and Kansas. Both of those should pay dividends in a world where individual viewers matter more than particular markets. The SEC takes those 6.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

As far as divisional alignment goes, these wouldn't represent 4 divisions...just pods. You could play 11 conference games in this structure and maintain a simple divisional structure...the winners of 2 matched pods meet in Atlanta. The 4 from your own pod are annual, then a permanent rival from each of the other 3, and the final 4 schools from one of the other pods in a given season.

Now, it's time to rebuild the Big 12. Why? The brand value of a Power league will help elevate the ratings for the additions so that the league won't lose as much cache.

I don't think we're quite to the point where a P4 model can take over because there's so much uncertainty in the marketplace. The CFP contract will run for several more years and I think there will be significant hurdles in creating a champs-only model even when that contract ends. That and the 5th Power league allows for some additional drama in the CFP race. If nothing else, it creates the opportunity for a Cinderella story which college fans seem to love more than just about anything.

Legacy members: TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State

New members: BYU, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, East Carolina, and Wichita State as a non-football member.

That's a solid 14 + 1 that will have somewhat decent money and decent content. That could be very beneficial to ESPN's coffers as no further investment in the ACC would be required while the Big 12 would likely be wholly owned by the network.

you said rebuild the B12 after both the Longhorns and Sooners leave... that is simply unpossible.

Seriously, even if they were paid the same (and I can't why ESPN would do that) the perceived loss of relevance would be unacceptable to the likes of Baylor and KSU IMO.

It won't matter by 2023. If the GOR hasn't been renewed the little 8 are pretty well hosed unless big brother throws them a rope.

I'm beginning to think that the network may not be inclined to pay the freight on "little brothers".

That's an errant thought. If history shows anything it's that ESPN will want all of the marketable brands in every key state. So, Oklahoma State completes Oklahoma since Tulsa is an ESPN product in the AAC. Houston and S.M.U. are products of ESPN in the AAC. If there are six schools to be taken by the SEC, ACC, and AAC it will be Baylor, T.C.U., Texas, Texas Tech and the two Oklahomas. The why is simple. Those are the 6 schools that 33 million of the 40 million Big 12 viewers are interested in watching every week and who they play and what they do is important to them. Between the SEC and ACC those are the 6 we will likely be trying to take. If for any reason Kansas goes to one of our conferences then I look for KState to as well.

(02-25-2018 09:34 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 08:41 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.


I think ESPN will be interested in helping advance the SEC's cause because it's their tentpole college property and the SEC Network has been very successful.

I do think, however, that it may be necessary to go to 20 because the SEC will be on an island when it comes to being interested in changing the rule structure in order to allow for 3 divisions. That and ESPN may need some help securing key properties for their broader plan.

Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes. It may be necessary to take Texas Tech and Oklahoma State as well in order to secure those moves. The two other schools that I think ESPN would be most interested in securing would be West Virginia and Kansas. Both of those should pay dividends in a world where individual viewers matter more than particular markets. The SEC takes those 6.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

As far as divisional alignment goes, these wouldn't represent 4 divisions...just pods. You could play 11 conference games in this structure and maintain a simple divisional structure...the winners of 2 matched pods meet in Atlanta. The 4 from your own pod are annual, then a permanent rival from each of the other 3, and the final 4 schools from one of the other pods in a given season.

Now, it's time to rebuild the Big 12. Why? The brand value of a Power league will help elevate the ratings for the additions so that the league won't lose as much cache.

I don't think we're quite to the point where a P4 model can take over because there's so much uncertainty in the marketplace. The CFP contract will run for several more years and I think there will be significant hurdles in creating a champs-only model even when that contract ends. That and the 5th Power league allows for some additional drama in the CFP race. If nothing else, it creates the opportunity for a Cinderella story which college fans seem to love more than just about anything.

Legacy members: TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State

New members: BYU, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, East Carolina, and Wichita State as a non-football member.

That's a solid 14 + 1 that will have somewhat decent money and decent content. That could be very beneficial to ESPN's coffers as no further investment in the ACC would be required while the Big 12 would likely be wholly owned by the network.

you said rebuild the B12 after both the Longhorns and Sooners leave... that is simply unpossible.

Seriously, even if they were paid the same (and I can't why ESPN would do that) the perceived loss of relevance would be unacceptable to the likes of Baylor and KSU IMO.

It won't matter by 2023. If the GOR hasn't been renewed the little 8 are pretty well hosed unless big brother throws them a rope.

I'm beginning to think that the network may not be inclined to pay the freight on "little brothers".

What we consider "little brothers" could change drastically by 2023. While Texas/OK are always going to be bigwigs, what if Beard leads Texas Tech to 5 straight Sweet 16s by then and Gundy wins the Big 12 4 out of 5 seasons and gets a national championship. Or if Bill Self retires... Lots of.moving parts. Yes there are the "little 8" but value can be gained between now and then.

(02-25-2018 08:41 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.


I think ESPN will be interested in helping advance the SEC's cause because it's their tentpole college property and the SEC Network has been very successful.

I do think, however, that it may be necessary to go to 20 because the SEC will be on an island when it comes to being interested in changing the rule structure in order to allow for 3 divisions. That and ESPN may need some help securing key properties for their broader plan.

Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes. It may be necessary to take Texas Tech and Oklahoma State as well in order to secure those moves. The two other schools that I think ESPN would be most interested in securing would be West Virginia and Kansas. Both of those should pay dividends in a world where individual viewers matter more than particular markets. The SEC takes those 6.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

As far as divisional alignment goes, these wouldn't represent 4 divisions...just pods. You could play 11 conference games in this structure and maintain a simple divisional structure...the winners of 2 matched pods meet in Atlanta. The 4 from your own pod are annual, then a permanent rival from each of the other 3, and the final 4 schools from one of the other pods in a given season.

Now, it's time to rebuild the Big 12. Why? The brand value of a Power league will help elevate the ratings for the additions so that the league won't lose as much cache.

I don't think we're quite to the point where a P4 model can take over because there's so much uncertainty in the marketplace. The CFP contract will run for several more years and I think there will be significant hurdles in creating a champs-only model even when that contract ends. That and the 5th Power league allows for some additional drama in the CFP race. If nothing else, it creates the opportunity for a Cinderella story which college fans seem to love more than just about anything.

Legacy members: TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State

New members: BYU, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, East Carolina, and Wichita State as a non-football member.

That's a solid 14 + 1 that will have somewhat decent money and decent content. That could be very beneficial to ESPN's coffers as no further investment in the ACC would be required while the Big 12 would likely be wholly owned by the network.

you said rebuild the B12 after both the Longhorns and Sooners leave... that is simply unpossible.

Seriously, even if they were paid the same (and I can't why ESPN would do that) the perceived loss of relevance would be unacceptable to the likes of Baylor and KSU IMO.

What I'm saying is that the "Big 12" name could stick around, but the money wouldn't be remotely the same. Instead of a few schools gravitating towards the American, take the better products of the American and give them the Big 12 branding.

I think the Big 12 leftovers could be more amenable to this way of doing it over simply going their separate ways because the brand value would still exist to some degree and might help their ratings...kind of like how the Big East brand is still out there even though the league is very different from what it was 10 years ago.

The numbers are probably flexible as 12 might actually be more economical than 14 + 1, but I wasn't sure which American schools were necessarily more attractive.

Maybe this...

West: BYU, TCU, Baylor, SMU, Houston, Kansas State
East: Iowa State, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, UConn

You couldn't pay them what the Big 12 is getting now, but maybe a fair bit more than what the AAC is currently getting if they're allowed to have Power status for a while. That would be cheaper than placing schools in the ACC considering there aren't many that would really fit in that league.

When another 20 years passes then maybe the economics of the CFP look different and/or maybe a P3 is possible.

I guess what I'm getting at is that this could be a stop gap measure.

(02-25-2018 08:45 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 08:22 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.

1. ESPN will pay the ACC just enough to stay together and relevant since their product fills so much Air time and a great profit.

2. Big 12 pieces will do what is best for themselves by choice or if forced

3. There are some good pieces in the Big 12 that can help the SEC. the six schools you referenced were also the ones I would look at if the sec added more members.

I have no issues with the Texa-homa schools and Kansas. The debate would be over #6. Iowa State has 3.2 million in population, they are AAU, their average attendance is not too far off from W.V.U.'s, and their economic impact valuation is higher.

West Virginia has 1,8 million in population, is not AAU, their average attendance is in the high 50's, and their economic impact valuation is the 2nd worst in the P5 behind Wake Forest. The only metric they have over Iowa State is gross total revenue which is 93 million to ISU's 78 million range.

I thought about proposing Kansas and Kansas State as a combo for political reasons, but I don't know that KU has that sort of power to wield.

Iowa State could work better than West Virginia although I'm debating over which program would have more fans willing to purchase an OTT package when that day finally arrives. WV is clearly a smaller state, but they seem to have more folks spread out into some of the regional metro areas. Then again, the economics of IA are far better as a whole so perhaps there's more expendable income for ISU fans and perhaps more legacy fans.

(02-26-2018 12:37 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  What I'm saying is that the "Big 12" name could stick around, but the money wouldn't be remotely the same. Instead of a few schools gravitating towards the American, take the better products of the American and give them the Big 12 branding.

I think the Big 12 leftovers could be more amenable to this way of doing it over simply going their separate ways because the brand value would still exist to some degree and might help their ratings...kind of like how the Big East brand is still out there even though the league is very different from what it was 10 years ago.

The numbers are probably flexible as 12 might actually be more economical than 14 + 1, but I wasn't sure which American schools were necessarily more attractive.

Maybe this...

West: BYU, TCU, Baylor, SMU, Houston, Kansas State
East: Iowa State, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, USF, UConn

You couldn't pay them what the Big 12 is getting now, but maybe a fair bit more than what the AAC is currently getting if they're allowed to have Power status for a while. That would be cheaper than placing schools in the ACC considering there aren't many that would really fit in that league.

When another 20 years passes then maybe the economics of the CFP look different and/or maybe a P3 is possible.

I guess what I'm getting at is that this could be a stop gap measure.

If the past is prologue, then what happened to the BE portends the B12 future IMO. First, unless the CFP is expanded, keeping the B12 around serves no purpose. ESPN would be increasing the payouts on properties they currently have for the cheap. That of course pales in comparison to the haircut (scalping?) the schools that are left behind would end up taking.

There are only two realities the L8 will accept: the B12 soldering on past 2024 or joining the remaining P4. That's why I think this is the last stable season for the B12. I expect Baylor, KSU and TCU to rage against the dying light in 2019, because becoming UCONN is an existence they aren't going to accept without a fight.

Iowa State and Kansas just scream SEC SEC SEC.
Every time you move out from our base, your brand changes....ESPN doesn't care they are good at selling what they have.
Just don't repeat Icarus' mistake, once you've modified your DNA, you won't be recognizable in a mirror.

(02-25-2018 08:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 08:41 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(02-25-2018 05:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  And what I mean by that can be summed up in 3 points:

-Maybe it's more economical to keep the ACC making what they're making and hope the ACC Network performs decently.

-Maybe the Big 12 pieces could be realigned in such a way that still augment 2 leagues for the purpose of creating better content.

-Perhaps it would be more economical to position the SEC for the future while keeping the network's options open with regard to what content could be procured and/or what leagues might be available for reorganizing in the next generation.


I think ESPN will be interested in helping advance the SEC's cause because it's their tentpole college property and the SEC Network has been very successful.

I do think, however, that it may be necessary to go to 20 because the SEC will be on an island when it comes to being interested in changing the rule structure in order to allow for 3 divisions. That and ESPN may need some help securing key properties for their broader plan.

Texas and Oklahoma are the prizes. It may be necessary to take Texas Tech and Oklahoma State as well in order to secure those moves. The two other schools that I think ESPN would be most interested in securing would be West Virginia and Kansas. Both of those should pay dividends in a world where individual viewers matter more than particular markets. The SEC takes those 6.

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri, Ole Miss
South: Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

As far as divisional alignment goes, these wouldn't represent 4 divisions...just pods. You could play 11 conference games in this structure and maintain a simple divisional structure...the winners of 2 matched pods meet in Atlanta. The 4 from your own pod are annual, then a permanent rival from each of the other 3, and the final 4 schools from one of the other pods in a given season.

Now, it's time to rebuild the Big 12. Why? The brand value of a Power league will help elevate the ratings for the additions so that the league won't lose as much cache.

I don't think we're quite to the point where a P4 model can take over because there's so much uncertainty in the marketplace. The CFP contract will run for several more years and I think there will be significant hurdles in creating a champs-only model even when that contract ends. That and the 5th Power league allows for some additional drama in the CFP race. If nothing else, it creates the opportunity for a Cinderella story which college fans seem to love more than just about anything.

Legacy members: TCU, Baylor, Kansas State, Iowa State

New members: BYU, Houston, SMU, UCF, USF, Memphis, Cincinnati, UConn, Temple, East Carolina, and Wichita State as a non-football member.

That's a solid 14 + 1 that will have somewhat decent money and decent content. That could be very beneficial to ESPN's coffers as no further investment in the ACC would be required while the Big 12 would likely be wholly owned by the network.

you said rebuild the B12 after both the Longhorns and Sooners leave... that is simply unpossible.

Seriously, even if they were paid the same (and I can't why ESPN would do that) the perceived loss of relevance would be unacceptable to the likes of Baylor and KSU IMO.

It won't matter by 2023. If the GOR hasn't been renewed the little 8 are pretty well hosed unless big brother throws them a rope.

Which is why I think the 2019-20 is going to herald the return of real CR speculation and intrigue. I mean, how does Bowlsby answer inquires into how the GoR extension is going or what the new TV deal is looking like?

(02-26-2018 05:41 AM)XLance Wrote:  Iowa State and Kansas just scream SEC SEC SEC.
Every time you move out from our base, your brand changes....ESPN doesn't care they are good at selling what they have.
Just don't repeat Icarus' mistake, once you've modified your DNA, you won't be recognizable in a mirror.

Just being faithful to the thread concept by coming up with a 20 school scenario. In all likelihood the SEC takes 4, and the ACC takes 3. Texa-homa for the SEC, Baylor, T.C.U. and W.V.U.for the ACC.

(02-26-2018 11:10 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 05:41 AM)XLance Wrote:  Iowa State and Kansas just scream SEC SEC SEC.
Every time you move out from our base, your brand changes....ESPN doesn't care they are good at selling what they have.
Just don't repeat Icarus' mistake, once you've modified your DNA, you won't be recognizable in a mirror.

Just being faithful to the thread concept by coming up with a 20 school scenario. In all likelihood the SEC takes 4, and the ACC takes 3. Texa-homa for the SEC, Baylor, T.C.U. and W.V.U.for the ACC.

Even more likely, JR..........the SEC gets Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and West Virginia and the ACC takes Texas, TCU, Baylor and Notre Dame.