(03-10-2018 01:15 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(03-10-2018 12:52 PM)pvtlamb Wrote:  @GaryParrishCBS
17h
17 hours ago

Gary Parrish Retweeted Geoff Calkins
Tubby Smith’s attorney implied Tubby can’t recruit in Memphis because Penny Hardaway controls the prospects and wants Tubby’s job — point being that the best way to get Tubby’s job is for Tubby to fail. So this is getting good!

Sounds like the conspiracy theorists who say UCONN leaked their own minor NCAA violations in order to fire Ollie with just cause.

It wouldn't surprise me a bit if both were true.

Tubby earning lifetime contact at Memphis today.

Yah, Tubbs ain't going anywhere.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...phew...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Enjoy another year.

How do you know tubby Smith doesn't end up in Connecticut

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(03-09-2018 10:08 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-09-2018 10:05 PM)Tigergary Wrote:  It's the way it's going down.

and I don't respect that at all...I'm once again embarrassed to be a Tiger fan.

not by Tubby...but by our terrible fans and admins.

firing someone properly is not that tough. It's amazing how we FUBAR the simple things.

It's the pro penny boosters that leaked this.....blame them.

(03-10-2018 11:44 AM)SHOCK_value Wrote:  Better hope Penny works out, because if in a couple of years he hasn’t, the job will be radioactive after the admin’s handling of Pastner/Tubbs/Penny. Which sucks and is out of place for a proud program like Memphis’.

I'm not in favor of how this was handled (mostly local HS/AAU peeps talking out of school and the media picking up on it), but it's a myth that the job will become radioactive. That's baloney.

We have a brand new state of the art basketball facility, we play in one of the best arenas in the country, on Beale Street. We have a long tradition of winning basketball and national prominence, going back to the early 1950s, and are one of the Top 25 programs of all time.

We have a passionate fan base, boosters willing to pay what it takes to the right coach, and all the financial support necessary for the program to thrive.

We can put 15K+ into the FEF for most games with decent Memphis teams, and sell it out at 18K, when we are ranked and in NCAA decent seed contention. (We're getting 6K with a mediocre team and a coach nobody wants).

We have expectations of getting to the NCAAT fairly often, to the S16 maybe 1 or 2 a decade, and a deep run now and then.

Calipari was there 9 years , with great success. Pastner was there 7, and successful the first 5, then left (with a push) to Ga Tech. Tubby was there only 2 years, won okay, but did a lot of things to shoot himself in the foot with admin and boosters, not to mention the fan base.

We can pay whatever salary is necessary for any level of coach (we doubled UK's offer to Cal).

So tell me, if Penny is unsuccessful, that we won't be able to find some young rising coaching protege who would jump at that job for a salary as high or higher than any other offer.

Does anyone honestly think we couldn't find one coach in America who would do that?

Radioactive. Pfffttt...

Here's an article just published in the Commercial Appeal that pretty much lays out the good and the bad with Tubby.

Tigers basketball coach Tubby Smith knows this may be the end of his time in Memphis
Geoff Calkins, USA TODAY NETWORK – Tennessee Published 5:15 p.m. CT March 10, 2018 | Updated 6:32 p.m. CT March 10, 2018

EXCERPT:

If Memphis doesn’t get an NIT invitation, Smith will become just the second Memphis coach since 1951 to fail to qualify for the postseason in either of his first two seasons. Josh Pastner, John Calipari, Tic Price, Larry Finch, Wayne Yates, Gene Bartow, Moe Iba, Dean Ehlers, Bob Vanatta and Eugene Lambert all made the postseason in their first two years on the job. The only coach who didn’t — Dana Kirk — then went to the NCAAs for five straight years.

So Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin can get up after the game and suggest that Memphis is nuts to even think about firing Smith. And in a vacuum, what he says makes a lot of sense. The Tigers did get better throughout the year. They did win 7 of their last 9 games.

But the Memphis administrators won’t make the decision in a vacuum. They can’t afford to, honestly. Not when attendance and athletic department contributions are both cratering, not when Smith has failed to recruit a single player from Memphis and not when the coach’s lawyer said Friday that increasing attendance isn’t part of his client’s job.

Indeed, the lawyer — Ricky Lefft — said a lot of incendiary things about the Memphis situation. It was enough to make you wonder if he knew that Smith was already toast. Among other things, Lefft suggested local icon Penny Hardaway may have hindered Smith’s ability to recruit local players and said that Memphis administrators and boosters misled Smith about the university’s future in the Big 12.

Might there be some truth to both those accusations? Absolutely, there might be. But that’s still not a reason to publicly blast his client’s employer. At least, not if Smith wants to stay in the job.

But the comments about attendance were in some ways even more revealing. Lefft said “It’s not the coach’s responsibility to put butts in the seats.” That’s an odd thing to say considering Smith’s contract includes $1.1 million for television and radio appearances and another $1.1 million for public relations. There may be schools where a coach can just focus on basketball, but Memphis is not one of those schools.

READ MORE HERE:

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/e...413398002/

It's over. You all will make your gamble and toss the dice. If you fail you will be indiana and irrelevant for a decade plus after you fire Penny. You have made your bed now you'll lie in it.

Not sure it's going to be very comfortable.

(03-10-2018 09:59 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  It's over. You all will make your gamble and toss the dice. If you fail you will be indiana and irrelevant for a decade plus after you fire Penny. You have made your bed now you'll lie in it.

Not sure it's going to be very comfortable.

"We all" ain't doing anything. That's on the president and the boosters paying the bills.

Did you read the excerpt, at least? Do you not see a single thing in there that might lay a bit of the blame legitimately on Tubby?

You never ever acknowledge any counter-argument, and you keep saying the same things over and over.

(03-10-2018 10:06 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-10-2018 09:59 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  It's over. You all will make your gamble and toss the dice. If you fail you will be indiana and irrelevant for a decade plus after you fire Penny. You have made your bed now you'll lie in it.

Not sure it's going to be very comfortable.

"We all" ain't doing anything. That's on the president and the boosters paying the bills.

Did you read the excerpt, at least? Do you not see a single thing in there that might lay a bit of the blame legitimately on Tubby?

You never ever acknowledge any counter-argument, and you keep saying the same things over and over.

Read the article, it says in a vacuum. So the entire nation is in the vacuum, but Memphis has it right?

Why do only local media guys and Memphis boosters think this is a good idea?

I don't have to say anything more about it, the national media and coaching fraternity are telling you what they think. Guess they're just repeating me.

If it works out for you then great. But thinking that you will just recover after such a clear butchering of the situation is simply fantasy. IF Penny fails you are in a lot of trouble, the job will be radio active.

As I said you all will have to lie in this bed. And yes this is on you and Memphis fans. Did you see what happened when Tennessee supporters saw something outrageous happening to their beloved football program?

If you think this is a bad idea did you email the board, president, ad to not do it?

The outside world could be completely wrong, Memphis better hope so.

(03-10-2018 10:26 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  

(03-10-2018 10:06 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-10-2018 09:59 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  It's over. You all will make your gamble and toss the dice. If you fail you will be indiana and irrelevant for a decade plus after you fire Penny. You have made your bed now you'll lie in it.

Not sure it's going to be very comfortable.

"We all" ain't doing anything. That's on the president and the boosters paying the bills.

Did you read the excerpt, at least? Do you not see a single thing in there that might lay a bit of the blame legitimately on Tubby?

You never ever acknowledge any counter-argument, and you keep saying the same things over and over.

Read the article, it says in a vacuum. So the entire nation is in the vacuum, but Memphis has it right?

Why do only local media guys and Memphis boosters think this is a good idea?

I don't have to say anything more about it, the national media and coaching fraternity are telling you what they think. Guess they're just repeating me.

If it works out for you then great. But thinking that you will just recover after such a clear butchering of the situation is simply fantasy. IF Penny fails you are in a lot of trouble, the job will be radio active.

As I said you all will have to lie in this bed. And yes this is on you and Memphis fans. Did you see what happened when Tennessee supporters saw something outrageous happening to their beloved football program?

If you think this is a bad idea did you email the board, president, ad to not do it?

The outside world could be completely wrong, Memphis better hope so.

Now I know why nobody can really discuss anything with you.

1. You used the "in a vacuum" quote to make your point. That is completely out of context. Here is the full quote:

And in a vacuum, what he says makes a lot of sense. The Tigers did get better throughout the year. They did win 7 of their last 9 games.

But the Memphis administrators won’t make the decision in a vacuum. They can’t afford to, honestly. Not when attendance and athletic department contributions are both cratering, not when Smith has failed to recruit a single player from Memphis and not when the coach’s lawyer said Friday that increasing attendance isn’t part of his client’s job.

2. You also asked, "Why do only local media guys and Memphis boosters think this is a good idea?"

The answer is in italics above. "Attendance, donations and revenue are cratering," to the tune of millions a year. Smith has yet to recruit a single player from Memphis , in two years, although there were plenty of good prospects. And Smith refuses to do any PR work, even though his contract requires it, and values it at over 1/3 of his salary. And his agent said yesterday that Tubby takes no responsibility for attendance, which is actually part of his contract.

If you think all of that is not reason to make a change, then I don't know what else to tell you. Anybody who says it's a bad idea doesn't know these things, or doesn't care. Not only would it be stupid to carry on with a coach like that, it would continue to send us in a downward spiral for all the things that keep the program afloat. Attendance. Revenue. Donations.

I'm out. Nothing else to say. If you can't see that, then you just don't want to see it. In fact, why does this subject even interest you? And again, you repeat yourself. over and over.

Adios. Keep on blathering.

You guys are going to fire a proven coach like Tubby. For a guy named Penny who has no proven history of coaching college basketball? That just seems strange.

Let me know if I am wrong. But it seems like Penny is the issue. Do you really want a guy who is purposely killing your program in order to help himself? Penny is the negative source and the one hurting your program not Tubby.

(03-11-2018 07:46 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You guys are going to fire a proven coach like Tubby. For a guy named Penny who has no proven history of coaching college basketball? That just seems strange.

Let me know if I am wrong. But it seems like Penny is the issue. Do you really want a guy who is purposely killing your program in order to help himself? Penny is the negative source and the one hurting your program not Tubby.

Memphis is going to crater in 2019 because our entire starting lineup graduates and no replacements have been recruited. It is similar to what happened to Tulsa a few years ago. The only way to avoid this is to make a change.

Some of you are extremely dense people. You can disparage the fact the only 5K are showing up to watch Tubby's teams play, but the reality is the program isn't a money maker anymore, it's a money loser. Penny makes the program a money winner again, at least for the first 3 years. That's why this decision is being made.

(03-11-2018 07:46 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You guys are going to fire a proven coach like Tubby. For a guy named Penny who has no proven history of coaching college basketball? That just seems strange.

Let me know if I am wrong. But it seems like Penny is the issue. Do you really want a guy who is purposely killing your program in order to help himself? Penny is the negative source and the one hurting your program not Tubby.

I think he probably has been hurting our recruiting. He has a lot of influence. He HAS been campaigning for the job, for at least 4 years. I don't want him. And I was fine with giving Tubby another year.

But I understand why admin is doing this.

TUBBY GONE:

* Attendance has cratered, way worse then with Pastner. Down to just a few thousand some nights. Instead of 16-18K with Calipari, and 9-15K with Pastner, we are struggling to get 6K. FedExForum is like a funeral home many nights.

* Donations and revenue are down millions.

* Tubby hasn't gotten a single Memphis recruit since he got here, although several good ones were in the mix.

* Tubby doesn't do interviews at all, except post game pressers, even though his contract requires it, and values it at over $1M.

* His lawyer/agent just said it is not Tubby's responsibility to worry about attendance. Yes, it is, again by the contract.

PENNY IN:

* No college coaching experience.

* Hasn't helped us with recruiting for 4 years now.

BUT:

* He is a Memphis legend, and his hiring will likely put attendance back into 5 digits, and maybe much higher.

* Ticket sales, donations and merchandise sales will skyrocket.

* Recruiting will jump dramatically. There are a number of Memphis players who have indicated such, and others who seem likely.

* It's not like Penny hasn't coached anywhere. He is the coach at East High in Memphis, won the state last year, was ranked #1 in the country this year, and will likely win the state again this week.

* He also sponsors a highly successful AAU team (Team Penny), with plenty of recruiting ties.

* There is no other coach, not even Gregg Marshall or Mark Few, who would excite the Memphis fan base like Penny.

I understand the skepticism from afar. I share it a bit. Penny is a gamble. But name another available coach who would have the impact that Penny will have.

Maybe he fails. It won't kill the program. It will just delay its recovery. Firing Gillispie after 2 years didn't kill UK. Firing Tubby after 2 years might run off big name coaches, but Memphis never gets those anyway.

Any up and coming coach would jump at the opportunity, the money, the program name, the facilities, the fan support if you're successful, etc.

So, we are about to roll the dice on Penny. Most reasonable CEOs would likely make the same choice, b/c the rewards likely outweigh the possible risks.

Only time will tell if it was worth it, but I understand the choice.

(03-11-2018 08:14 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 07:46 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You guys are going to fire a proven coach like Tubby. For a guy named Penny who has no proven history of coaching college basketball? That just seems strange.

Let me know if I am wrong. But it seems like Penny is the issue. Do you really want a guy who is purposely killing your program in order to help himself? Penny is the negative source and the one hurting your program not Tubby.

Memphis is going to crater in 2019 because our entire starting lineup graduates and no replacements have been recruited. It is similar to what happened to Tulsa a few years ago. The only way to avoid this is to make a change.

(03-11-2018 09:05 AM)Tampa Bay Tiger Wrote:  Some of you are extremely dense people. You can disparage the fact the only 5K are showing up to watch Tubby's teams play, but the reality is the program isn't a money maker anymore, it's a money loser. Penny makes the program a money winner again, at least for the first 3 years. That's why this decision is being made.

LOL. If I had read your posts first, I could have saved myself a lot of typing.

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.


T


...

That is the current Memphis-brainwashed response - and it has nothing to do with producing a long-term competitive team. Reality is if it's about basketball you don't fire one of the best coaches in the country who is improving the program (albeit slowly) to hire an unproven local hero WHO HAS NEVER COACHED A COLLEGE GAME. If college coaching experience wasn't needed to be successful everybody on this board would be out trying to coach. This will turn out just like Finch where a local hero gets destroyed - except apparently Penny has money where Finch didn't or his health.

And the nonsense logic of attendance, donations and revenues - is just that, nonsense, at least in the context of the planned Penny alternative, a very high risk quick fix with little chance of success. Sure there are problems but when someone is in financial difficulty they don't run to the casino & put everything they own on a single roulette table bet. And that is the equivalent of the Penny bet. And the long-term result will be to bury the program & further divide the fans. But there's a bright side, Memphis is a FB school.

(03-11-2018 04:41 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  That is the current Memphis-brainwashed response - and it has nothing to do with producing a long-term competitive team. Reality is if it's about basketball you don't fire one of the best coaches in the country who is improving the program (albeit slowly) to hire an unproven local hero WHO HAS NEVER COACHED A COLLEGE GAME. If college coaching experience wasn't needed to be successful everybody on this board would be out trying to coach. This will turn out just like Finch where a local hero gets destroyed - except apparently Penny has money where Finch didn't or his health.

And the nonsense logic of attendance, donations and revenues - is just that, nonsense, at least in the context of the planned Penny alternative, a very high risk quick fix with little chance of success. Sure there are problems but when someone is in financial difficulty they don't run to the casino & put everything they own on a single roulette table bet. And that is the equivalent of the Penny bet. And the long-term result will be to bury the program & further divide the fans. But there's a bright side, Memphis is a FB school.

If you think I am brain washed, then you obviously don't know me at all. I have been a Tubby supporter from the beginning, and still am. I prefer we keep him another year.

But if we keep Tubby, the attendance, revenue and donations will continue to plummet. So Tubby has to go, and I grudgingly realize that. People a lot smarter than you or me, with a lot more money, have already made that decision.

Then we come to Penny. I sure as heck don't want him as the next coach. But again, what did I say above that isn't true? He will excite the fan base like no other. Attendance and revenues will skyrocket. Recruiting will do the same.

Eventually, Penny will likely fail. Most coaches do. Or maybe we get lucky. If he is successful, he's not going anywhere.

And if we fire him, it's not going to bury the program. Finch was bigger than Penny. Did that bury the program? No. We had our best run ever after he left.

And dividing the fan base? I think it will unite the great majority of the fan base, and it certainly can't be more divided than it is with Tubby now.

So, what the heck? Off we go.