(03-15-2018 04:31 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  Firing Tubby has everything to do with "on the court" matters, because being a borderline Top 100 RPI team is dreadful on the court performance no matter how many hollow wins they amassed against Northern Kentucky and Bryant.

it was year 2.. YEAR 2...do you know how any great coaches had horrific year 2s that are argued as the best ever...

no one said this year was the goal...but there was improvement ..you cant see it because of your love for memphis and immediate need or success

i worry bout this with penny..bruce pearl is an elite coach and elite recruiter but took him 4 years to turn them around...

if a top 100-ish rpi is the bar for firing year 2... lsu with simmons/ washinton with fulltz, etc..#1 recruit doesnt even mean nit in todays game...you are giving penny no room to adapt if he isnt winning year one

(03-15-2018 04:46 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 04:31 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  Firing Tubby has everything to do with "on the court" matters, because being a borderline Top 100 RPI team is dreadful on the court performance no matter how many hollow wins they amassed against Northern Kentucky and Bryant.

it was year 2.. YEAR 2...do you know how any great coaches had horrific year 2s that are argued as the best ever...

no one said this year was the goal...but there was improvement ..you cant see it because of your love for memphis and immediate need or success

i worry bout this with penny..bruce pearl is an elite coach and elite recruiter but took him 4 years to turn them around...

if a top 100-ish rpi is the bar for firing year 2... lsu with simmons/ washinton with fulltz, etc..#1 recruit doesnt even mean nit in todays game...you are giving penny no room to adapt if he isnt winning year one

If you're getting the players, patience will follow. Pastner held on for a long time because he could still recruit. Then he lost players, couldn't get more, and got run off. Tubby never got players, he got run off. What cost Larry Finch his job? The impression that he couldn't recruit in Memphis (or elsewhere) anymore.

If Penny gets players, he'll get time.

(03-15-2018 03:26 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 02:59 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 11:10 AM)pesik Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 10:58 AM)2bumsabroad Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 01:35 PM)pesik Wrote:  ecu isnt pulling 5stars anytime soon..

in 2 years he took an empty team (everyone transfered out) and maybe them a top 100ish rpi team, on a team projected to be better the next year

standards are different...ecu would 100% have loved the job tubby was doing to this point. he'd make a great hire for them

Memphis didn't even make the NIT. ECU would not have loved the job Tubby was doing. Just because we sucked in the past doesn't mean we have different aspirations than anyone else in the conference. All it takes is one player. Non blue chip schools compete for championships all the time. Look at St. Joes, george mason, butler pre BE, gonzaga, VCU, etc.

We want a coach that can get us to the tourney and compete

on year 2?????
everyone at memphis transferred out when he got there (started from scratch).. still on year 2 he had memphis finishing fifth in the aac, and had everyone projected to come back....5th would be the highest finish for ecu in the aac

im not saying you would want to be finish where memphis was ths season but youd have love the trajectory...memphis next year with tubby would have been a nit lock, potential bubble team....ecu has never been to the nit..that would have just been year 3

if houston had fired sampson year 2 youd think he was a horrible coach too...
yet year 4 we are in the tournament, and project a top 25 again next year
tubby was doing a passable job at Memphis on the court, for year 2 starting from scratch...he just lost the fanbase...

look at tubbys resume..he has taken 6 different teams to the ncaa tournament. he has a national championship...all of them when they became tournament good, they all stayed good...some of them took 3 or so years to get there thou...
memphis is the only place he hasnt taken a team to the tournament and that as because he was only given 2 years

tubby would be a elite coach for ecu....anyone who says otherwise isnt paying attention

Wait a sec. "All the players transferred out" between his first season and his second, lol. Last April. The Lawsons caused some of it, but Tubby lost all but 2 scholly players.

And it is iffy we would have made the NCAAT next year. And after that, we would have lost almost everybody to graduation, with ZERO recruits in the pipeline. Not just Memphis recruits. Any recruits.

you are missing the point that the same thing happened at houston....houston was in the exact same situation when we hired sampson that memphis was..we had a elite recruiter who couldnt coach before sampson

sampson was supposd to inherit 1 5star, 4 espn 100 4star,..they all left ..
sampson brought in a ton players of his own, most of them transferred out before playing or only 1 year...
houston fans used to argue non stop that samspon couldnt recruit...we didnt want to fire sampson we just wanted him to hire a aau guy who could recruit on his staff

houston cared more about winning and the fact we improved every season, than who stayed on the roster or who he recruited ..again i know houtson didnt have to deal with losing fans like memphis..i get the firing

im just rebutting the fact the notion tubbs is a bad coach looking for a place to cash checks ... you could argue everything that memphis hated about tubby for Sampson at houston his second year

Pesik, as usual, I have no clue what you are talking about.

I was simply correcting your incorrect statement that "...everyone at memphis transferred out when he (Tubby) got there..."

NO, THEY DID NOT. They transferred out between his first season and his second season. Get it now?

(03-15-2018 04:33 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 03:33 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  I'm happy for Houston and thrilled to have Wichita State bolster our league, but you guys have no understanding of how anomalously terrible our program had gotten under Tubby. It wasn't just missing the NCAA and NIT multiple years in a row, it's how it happened and how difficult it made recovering from those self-inflicted wounds. The future wasn't just bleak, it was empty, and that's what the cupboard was going to be after another bunch of seniors left in 2019. He alienated local talent and had us in recruiting fights with MAAC schools. That's barely acceptable at ECU, much less Memphis.

We had to scrap it because the solution to those self-inflicted problems is sitting in Memphis about to win another high school state championship with talent that Kentucky covets. If you think this is somehow a gamble, rather than the only sensible path out of a historically awful mess, that's your lack of understanding speaking.

I don't know how good a coach Penny will be, but we'll get more serious tourney runs from his teams the next few seasons with him than we had any hope of making with Tubby "Best coach to keep getting fired for stubbornly insisting the programs he's at shouldn't aspire to more" Smith.

So why not go after this dude at Rhode Island, or SDSU, or Dick Ratino? Maybe hire Penny as the DOBO and pay him stupid money $1.5M or so. THIS is the strategy of a winner.


T


...

You still don't get it. Penny as HC gets a lot of good recruits, doubles the attendance back to maybe 12K at least, pulls us out of a revenue abyss, and gets the fan base excited.

Penny as DBO, and one of those other blokes you mentioned as HC, does none of that. Penny can hire an AC with whatever coaching chops Penny lacks.

Here's a hint. We had to cancel Memphis Madness not long ago, b/c nobody would show up, even for free. This October, we will have 18,000 there, and more people on the outside trying to get in, even charging $5 a ticket. I'll send you pics.

Coaching is not the concern for Memphis fans, with Penny. It's pulling in all those top recruits he says he can get without stubbing our toe with the NCAA.

(03-15-2018 07:06 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 04:33 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 03:33 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  I'm happy for Houston and thrilled to have Wichita State bolster our league, but you guys have no understanding of how anomalously terrible our program had gotten under Tubby. It wasn't just missing the NCAA and NIT multiple years in a row, it's how it happened and how difficult it made recovering from those self-inflicted wounds. The future wasn't just bleak, it was empty, and that's what the cupboard was going to be after another bunch of seniors left in 2019. He alienated local talent and had us in recruiting fights with MAAC schools. That's barely acceptable at ECU, much less Memphis.

We had to scrap it because the solution to those self-inflicted problems is sitting in Memphis about to win another high school state championship with talent that Kentucky covets. If you think this is somehow a gamble, rather than the only sensible path out of a historically awful mess, that's your lack of understanding speaking.

I don't know how good a coach Penny will be, but we'll get more serious tourney runs from his teams the next few seasons with him than we had any hope of making with Tubby "Best coach to keep getting fired for stubbornly insisting the programs he's at shouldn't aspire to more" Smith.

So why not go after this dude at Rhode Island, or SDSU, or Dick Ratino? Maybe hire Penny as the DOBO and pay him stupid money $1.5M or so. THIS is the strategy of a winner.


T


...

You still don't get it. Penny as HC gets a lot of good recruits, doubles the attendance back to maybe 12K at least, pulls us out of a revenue abyss, and gets the fan base excited.

Penny as DBO, and one of those other blokes you mentioned as HC, does none of that. Penny can hire an AC with whatever coaching chops Penny lacks.

Here's a hint. We had to cancel Memphis Madness not long ago, b/c nobody would show up, even for free. This October, we will have 18,000 there, and more people on the outside trying to get in, even charging $5 a ticket. I'll send you pics.

Coaching is not the concern for Memphis fans, with Penny. It's pulling in all those top recruits he says he can get without stubbing our toe with the NCAA.

Didn't you say you were like 70 years old? Throughout your life have you routinely made important decisions based on the expected effects said decision would have over the next 16 weeks or did you consider a longer time frame?

If you were trying to buy a house and couldn't afford the down payment, would you choose to wait and save longer, or would you just take out a $20K cash advance on your credit card at 28% and wing it?

Those "blokes", as you say, could build Memphis back into a National Power. Penny on the other hand may fill your arena on opening day for a host of reasons; but if he starts losing, which statistically he is nearly assured to do, the crowds will dwindle and whatever recruiting pipeline you think Penny now enjoys, will be no more.

Kevin Ollie has 13 years in the NBA, he studied under one of college basketball's great coaches for 2 years, he won a freakin' NCAA Championship in his second year as head coach, and he nearly drove the great UConn off the proverbial cliff.

Ollie had the NBA, he had the training, he had the recruits, he had the championship, he coached a program with far superior tradition to Memphis,... and he failed miserably. Please tell me how you can realistically expect Penny to outperform Ollie in any scenario?

You people thinking this Penny thing is a good idea are so far out of the realm of rationality it is scary. I literally think they put something in the water down there.


T


...

(03-15-2018 09:53 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 07:06 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 04:33 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(03-15-2018 03:33 PM)Psicosis Wrote:  I'm happy for Houston and thrilled to have Wichita State bolster our league, but you guys have no understanding of how anomalously terrible our program had gotten under Tubby. It wasn't just missing the NCAA and NIT multiple years in a row, it's how it happened and how difficult it made recovering from those self-inflicted wounds. The future wasn't just bleak, it was empty, and that's what the cupboard was going to be after another bunch of seniors left in 2019. He alienated local talent and had us in recruiting fights with MAAC schools. That's barely acceptable at ECU, much less Memphis.

We had to scrap it because the solution to those self-inflicted problems is sitting in Memphis about to win another high school state championship with talent that Kentucky covets. If you think this is somehow a gamble, rather than the only sensible path out of a historically awful mess, that's your lack of understanding speaking.

I don't know how good a coach Penny will be, but we'll get more serious tourney runs from his teams the next few seasons with him than we had any hope of making with Tubby "Best coach to keep getting fired for stubbornly insisting the programs he's at shouldn't aspire to more" Smith.

So why not go after this dude at Rhode Island, or SDSU, or Dick Ratino? Maybe hire Penny as the DOBO and pay him stupid money $1.5M or so. THIS is the strategy of a winner.


T


...

You still don't get it. Penny as HC gets a lot of good recruits, doubles the attendance back to maybe 12K at least, pulls us out of a revenue abyss, and gets the fan base excited.

Penny as DBO, and one of those other blokes you mentioned as HC, does none of that. Penny can hire an AC with whatever coaching chops Penny lacks.

Here's a hint. We had to cancel Memphis Madness not long ago, b/c nobody would show up, even for free. This October, we will have 18,000 there, and more people on the outside trying to get in, even charging $5 a ticket. I'll send you pics.

Coaching is not the concern for Memphis fans, with Penny. It's pulling in all those top recruits he says he can get without stubbing our toe with the NCAA.

Didn't you say you were like 70 years old? Throughout your life have you routinely made important decisions based on the expected effects said decision would have over the next 16 weeks or did you consider a longer time frame?

If you were trying to buy a house and couldn't afford the down payment, would you choose to wait and save longer, or would you just take out a $20K cash advance on your credit card at 28% and wing it?

Those "blokes", as you say, could build Memphis back into a National Power. Penny on the other hand may fill your arena on opening day for a host of reasons; but if he starts losing, which statistically he is nearly assured to do, the crowds will dwindle and whatever recruiting pipeline you think Penny now enjoys, will be no more.

Kevin Ollie has 13 years in the NBA, he studied under one of college basketball's great coaches for 2 years, he won a freakin' NCAA Championship in his second year as head coach, and he nearly drove the great UConn off the proverbial cliff.

Ollie had the NBA, he had the training, he had the recruits, he had the championship, he coached a program with far superior tradition to Memphis,... and he failed miserably. Please tell me how you can realistically expect Penny to outperform Ollie in any scenario?

You people thinking this Penny thing is a good idea are so far out of the realm of rationality it is scary. I literally think they put something in the water down there.


T


...

You people? How many times have I posted that I would not have done this? I'm simply explaining why the decision was made.

It doesn't matter what I think, nor what you think. But your ideas are worse than hiring Penny.

You still don't understand the problem. If Tubby had stayed this coming year, attendance would have almost completely disappeared. We would look like USF basketball on a bad night.

NOBODY in this country can pump up attendance like Penny with our fan base. Anybody else, and they will stay away.

It could be a bad decision. Most coaching decisions go that way, sooner or later. So what? We made 2 bad ones in a row, and now after 9 years, we need major surgery.

If this doesn't work out, then we'll ask for your list of coaches. But until then, Penny is going to get his shot, just like every college basketball legend does with his alma mater, if he really wants to coach. The fan base won't return until he does.

I'm out. You keep saying the same things over and over. So do I.

Still comical that people know exactly how successful Penny will or wont be and yet no one knows who his assistants will be or what recruits he'll bring with him. There's a whole lot that will play out over the next few months.