(06-01-2018 04:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 03:50 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 03:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  We may have to add Tulsa to the list of schools with dropping enrollment. A few years ago, I compared Tulsa's enrollment with Arkansas Tech on here. Tulsa had a little over 8000 students which Tech had 12,000. Now, Tulsa have less than 5000 students and enrollment is falling while Central Oklahoma is rising. Tulsa had to cut spending across the board in recent years. People lost their jobs at TU. If they keep losing students? They could head the way Bacone became. Tulsa is dead last in the AAC with fan support in football which is hurting AAC to become a P6 conference. AAC may need to rethink on what they should do with Tulsa. Army, Navy and Air Force also have under 5000 students, but they get better fan support for football.

Tulsa is in no danger. Quit posting stupid stuff.

Tulsa With 3406 Undergrads

Plus, with Oklahoma cutting spending on higher education which makes that state dead last in spending. It means the state cut higher ed spending which Tulsa do get state funding. Bacone and Saint Gregory depended on the state for some money have been hit hard by the cuts in higher ed in the state. The state of Oklahoma needs to change the problems by raising taxes to help education budgets. Kansas Republicans did that. Trump's tax cuts will not last long since you need funds to support education including higher education. Education is not a waste of tax payers money. It is just a waste at the schools.

Oklahoma Now Leads Nation In Budget Cuts For Higher Education and K-12

So Tulsa, with a significant endowment, many years of D1 experience and a location in a large city, should consider moving to a lower division (if they even survive!). But Upper Iowa, a school with 722 undergrad students on campus in an anonymous town in the northeast corner of the state, should consider D1.

If Tulsa drops to 722 on-campus students, would you advocate for their return to D1 then?

(06-02-2018 01:06 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If I’m not mistaken, Tulsa has had the smallest enrollment in FBS for a long time. Rice is not that far behind and I think Wake Forest is third. Tulsa had a good football run in their time in C-USA, first with Kragthorpe and then Todd Graham. Basketball hasn’t been the same since Bill Self left but as much as they struggled in both revenue sports lately, they’re not in any danger in dropping to FCS anytime soon.

I listened to Aresco on the AAC board talk about how P6 is right where they belong. Tulsa in my estimation does not belong in a power conference.

They are forced to keep up with the joneses in the AAC. If the AAC ends up raided and settles in as a run of the mill G5 conference they'll be able to drop down their spending levels accordingly.

(06-02-2018 01:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  So Tulsa, with a significant endowment, many years of D1 experience and a location in a large city, should consider moving to a lower division (if they even survive!). But Upper Iowa, a school with 722 undergrad students on campus in an anonymous town in the northeast corner of the state, should consider D1.

If Tulsa drops to 722 on-campus students, would you advocate for their return to D1 then?

I nominate this for top ten best post of all time!

(06-02-2018 02:06 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 01:06 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If I’m not mistaken, Tulsa has had the smallest enrollment in FBS for a long time. Rice is not that far behind and I think Wake Forest is third. Tulsa had a good football run in their time in C-USA, first with Kragthorpe and then Todd Graham. Basketball hasn’t been the same since Bill Self left but as much as they struggled in both revenue sports lately, they’re not in any danger in dropping to FCS anytime soon.

I listened to Aresco on the AAC board talk about how P6 is right where they belong. Tulsa in my estimation does not belong in a power conference.

They are forced to keep up with the joneses in the AAC. If the AAC ends up raided and settles in as a run of the mill G5 conference they'll be able to drop down their spending levels accordingly.

If the AAC wants to be a P6 conference. They need to boot the dead weights. I would replace Tulsa with UTSA. Tulane can be replaced by Southern Mississippi. If they want the best schools from the MWC? They might need to add some schools on the east side like Old Dominion, UMass., Southern Miss. VCU, Dayton and so forth.

(06-01-2018 09:57 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Tulsa’s endowment is ten figures. Arkansas Tech’s endowment is a rounding error for Tulsa. Enough said.

This basically it. They can blow cash on sports if they want.

No oversight like you find with the public universities.

(06-02-2018 02:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 02:06 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 01:06 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If I’m not mistaken, Tulsa has had the smallest enrollment in FBS for a long time. Rice is not that far behind and I think Wake Forest is third. Tulsa had a good football run in their time in C-USA, first with Kragthorpe and then Todd Graham. Basketball hasn’t been the same since Bill Self left but as much as they struggled in both revenue sports lately, they’re not in any danger in dropping to FCS anytime soon.

I listened to Aresco on the AAC board talk about how P6 is right where they belong. Tulsa in my estimation does not belong in a power conference.

They are forced to keep up with the joneses in the AAC. If the AAC ends up raided and settles in as a run of the mill G5 conference they'll be able to drop down their spending levels accordingly.

If the AAC wants to be a P6 conference. They need to boot the dead weights. I would replace Tulsa with UTSA. Tulane can be replaced by Southern Mississippi. If they want the best schools from the MWC? They might need to add some schools on the east side like Old Dominion, UMass., Southern Miss. VCU, Dayton and so forth.

That is what the AAC wants to happen but I don't think they'll get there.

Any realignment before the next CFP cycle and it knocks them down a peg. All the P5's move to 14 and they are heavily raided.

PAC (Texas, TCU)-With a new keep your own third tier rights TV deal.
B12 (BYU, Col St, SMU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati)
MWC (UTEP)
AAC (Rice, St. Louis, Dayton)
CUSA (Texas St, Louisiana)
SBC (NMSU, Liberty)-FB Only adds

Tulsa would be in a division with Wichita St, Rice, Tulane, St.Louis, Dayton. That seems like a good athletic fit for them. AAC has to have a 9th FB member because of a bylaw requiring 8 all sport members for an FBS conference.

(06-02-2018 02:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 02:06 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 01:06 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If I’m not mistaken, Tulsa has had the smallest enrollment in FBS for a long time. Rice is not that far behind and I think Wake Forest is third. Tulsa had a good football run in their time in C-USA, first with Kragthorpe and then Todd Graham. Basketball hasn’t been the same since Bill Self left but as much as they struggled in both revenue sports lately, they’re not in any danger in dropping to FCS anytime soon.

I listened to Aresco on the AAC board talk about how P6 is right where they belong. Tulsa in my estimation does not belong in a power conference.

They are forced to keep up with the joneses in the AAC. If the AAC ends up raided and settles in as a run of the mill G5 conference they'll be able to drop down their spending levels accordingly.

If the AAC wants to be a P6 conference. They need to boot the dead weights. I would replace Tulsa with UTSA. Tulane can be replaced by Southern Mississippi. If they want the best schools from the MWC? They might need to add some schools on the east side like Old Dominion, UMass., Southern Miss. VCU, Dayton and so forth.

This is completely unrealistic. Do you seriously think that, e.g., schools like Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State in the B1G, and schools like Florida, LSU, Alabama, and Georgia in the SEC will think they should be making equal CFP money as ECU, UTSA, Southern Miss, Memphis, Cincy, UConn, Houston, and yes, USF? And will TV networks want to give that conference an auto-spot in an NY6 bowl?

That the B1G and SEC will be impressed because the AAC dropped Tulsa and added UTSA? Seriously?

In what universe would that not be regarded as crazy from their point of view?

And that's the POV that matters.

I don't care enough to go look it up but I think the 4000ish number is including post-graduate numbers, I thought Tulsa's undergrad numbers were more like 3000 to 3200.

(06-02-2018 03:50 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don't care enough to go look it up but I think the 4000ish number is including post-graduate numbers, I thought Tulsa's undergrad numbers were more like 3000 to 3200.

I think the differences between Tulsa and the service academies is that the service academies draws from across the country and the world. The service academies have more alumni base and fans than Tulsa. The service academies are sought after by the power 5 conferences because of their tv reached that draws viewers from across the country. This is why Tulsa is not a P5 candidate, and should not be considered one until they get their enrollment levels up. There is no fan base, and they could kill the next tv deal which AAC could get a lot less money. Tulane is in the same boat. They do not have the viewers as well. UTSA seems to have the fan support for the games and for tv ratings for football.

(06-02-2018 04:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 03:50 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don't care enough to go look it up but I think the 4000ish number is including post-graduate numbers, I thought Tulsa's undergrad numbers were more like 3000 to 3200.

I think the differences between Tulsa and the service academies is that the service academies draws from across the country and the world. The service academies have more alumni base and fans than Tulsa. The service academies are sought after by the power 5 conferences because of their tv reached that draws viewers from across the country. This is why Tulsa is not a P5 candidate, and should not be considered one until they get their enrollment levels up. There is no fan base, and they could kill the next tv deal which AAC could get a lot less money. Tulane is in the same boat. They do not have the viewers as well. UTSA seems to have the fan support for the games and for tv ratings for football.

But ... the service academies aren't P5 candidates either.

(06-02-2018 02:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 02:06 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 01:06 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If I’m not mistaken, Tulsa has had the smallest enrollment in FBS for a long time. Rice is not that far behind and I think Wake Forest is third. Tulsa had a good football run in their time in C-USA, first with Kragthorpe and then Todd Graham. Basketball hasn’t been the same since Bill Self left but as much as they struggled in both revenue sports lately, they’re not in any danger in dropping to FCS anytime soon.

I listened to Aresco on the AAC board talk about how P6 is right where they belong. Tulsa in my estimation does not belong in a power conference.

They are forced to keep up with the joneses in the AAC. If the AAC ends up raided and settles in as a run of the mill G5 conference they'll be able to drop down their spending levels accordingly.

If the AAC wants to be a P6 conference. They need to boot the dead weights. I would replace Tulsa with UTSA. Tulane can be replaced by Southern Mississippi. If they want the best schools from the MWC? They might need to add some schools on the east side like Old Dominion, UMass., Southern Miss. VCU, Dayton and so forth.

I'm not sure it's worth wasting my virtual breath on this, but in the past decade thier football has had 4 10+ win seasons, their basketball team has made the post season 7 times (Twice in the big dance), and their soccer team has 7 NCAA tournament appearances. Not really the deadweight of the AAC by any metric.

ODU and Umass are both pretty subpar programs, even VCU and Dayton as basketball only don't really make sense.

(06-02-2018 04:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 03:50 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don't care enough to go look it up but I think the 4000ish number is including post-graduate numbers, I thought Tulsa's undergrad numbers were more like 3000 to 3200.

I think the differences between Tulsa and the service academies is that the service academies draws from across the country and the world. The service academies have more alumni base and fans than Tulsa. The service academies are sought after by the power 5 conferences because of their tv reached that draws viewers from across the country. This is why Tulsa is not a P5 candidate, and should not be considered one until they get their enrollment levels up. There is no fan base, and they could kill the next tv deal which AAC could get a lot less money. Tulane is in the same boat. They do not have the viewers as well. UTSA seems to have the fan support for the games and for tv ratings for football.

What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You are simply moving the finish line because you've been beaten down in your arguments.

Tulsa even if large enrollment public wouldn't be a P5 candidate in a state with two P5 schools already and a population below 4 million.

Tulsa is a well regarded academic institution with 10 bowl appearances since 2000 and five NCAA tournament appearances in that span making the second round three times and sweet 16 once.

They fit the AAC with their athletic performance and their academics is certainly something the presidents like to be affiliated with.

Tulsa doesn't make the revenue though to justify 5 million dollar coaching staffs.

They could get away with a staff that costs half as much had they stayed in CUSA or if the AAC backed off the gas pedal with coaching compensation.

As the third Oklahoma school they have recruiting advantages of cleaning up after OU/OSU are done picking players. Their football teams have been better for this reason than what could normally be expected.

It may be just a subjective thought, but I always group Tulsa, SMU, Rice, and Tulane and think they should stick as a package together.

(06-02-2018 02:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 02:06 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 01:06 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  If I’m not mistaken, Tulsa has had the smallest enrollment in FBS for a long time. Rice is not that far behind and I think Wake Forest is third. Tulsa had a good football run in their time in C-USA, first with Kragthorpe and then Todd Graham. Basketball hasn’t been the same since Bill Self left but as much as they struggled in both revenue sports lately, they’re not in any danger in dropping to FCS anytime soon.

I listened to Aresco on the AAC board talk about how P6 is right where they belong. Tulsa in my estimation does not belong in a power conference.

They are forced to keep up with the joneses in the AAC. If the AAC ends up raided and settles in as a run of the mill G5 conference they'll be able to drop down their spending levels accordingly.

If the AAC wants to be a P6 conference. They need to boot the dead weights. I would replace Tulsa with UTSA. Tulane can be replaced by Southern Mississippi. If they want the best schools from the MWC? They might need to add some schools on the east side like Old Dominion, UMass., Southern Miss. VCU, Dayton and so forth.

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(05-31-2018 06:50 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 06:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  There are schools that wants FBS for a long time that deserves the spots that Charlotte, Georgia State and Coastal Carolina. James Madison, Delaware, Youngstown State, Stony Brook, Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville State and so forth. Those schools have more years playing football under their belt than those three I mention.

Membership into the FBS is not a meritocracy. If those schools had the financial ability AND the administrative support needed they might already be FBS. James Madison had the chance, not once but twice, and they turned it down. If Eastern Kentucky isn't on your list to move down due to finances, maybe they should be as they are currently in the process of dropping men's and women's tennis, 153 jobs, and a long list of academic programs. http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/educa...67414.html

It is quite obvious just by looking at their football stadiums that Coastal Carolina and Georgia State have the finances and the support of the administration to be good competitive Sun Belt and FBS members. They have nice plans for future athletic expansion and enhancements as well.

Well he includes Miami!!! Miami is top 25 all time in winning percentage. They have two top 10 finishes, something a number of P5 schools can't claim, let alone the rest of G5. And, of course, they are the cradle of coaches.

(06-02-2018 09:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 06:50 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 06:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  There are schools that wants FBS for a long time that deserves the spots that Charlotte, Georgia State and Coastal Carolina. James Madison, Delaware, Youngstown State, Stony Brook, Eastern Kentucky, Jacksonville State and so forth. Those schools have more years playing football under their belt than those three I mention.

Membership into the FBS is not a meritocracy. If those schools had the financial ability AND the administrative support needed they might already be FBS. James Madison had the chance, not once but twice, and they turned it down. If Eastern Kentucky isn't on your list to move down due to finances, maybe they should be as they are currently in the process of dropping men's and women's tennis, 153 jobs, and a long list of academic programs. http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/educa...67414.html

It is quite obvious just by looking at their football stadiums that Coastal Carolina and Georgia State have the finances and the support of the administration to be good competitive Sun Belt and FBS members. They have nice plans for future athletic expansion and enhancements as well.

Well he includes Miami!!! Miami is top 25 all time in winning percentage. They have two top 10 finishes, something a number of P5 schools can't claim, let alone the rest of G5. And, of course, they are the cradle of coaches.

His lists are so long and ridiculous that I don't really read them so I missed Miami. Those are some impressive accomplishments by Miami and I seem to recall they also produced a great 2X Super Bowl winning QB (Go Steelers).

(06-02-2018 05:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 04:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 03:50 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don't care enough to go look it up but I think the 4000ish number is including post-graduate numbers, I thought Tulsa's undergrad numbers were more like 3000 to 3200.

I think the differences between Tulsa and the service academies is that the service academies draws from across the country and the world. The service academies have more alumni base and fans than Tulsa. The service academies are sought after by the power 5 conferences because of their tv reached that draws viewers from across the country. This is why Tulsa is not a P5 candidate, and should not be considered one until they get their enrollment levels up. There is no fan base, and they could kill the next tv deal which AAC could get a lot less money. Tulane is in the same boat. They do not have the viewers as well. UTSA seems to have the fan support for the games and for tv ratings for football.

What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You are simply moving the finish line because you've been beaten down in your arguments.

Tulsa even if large enrollment public wouldn't be a P5 candidate in a state with two P5 schools already and a population below 4 million.

Tulsa is a well regarded academic institution with 10 bowl appearances since 2000 and five NCAA tournament appearances in that span making the second round three times and sweet 16 once.

They fit the AAC with their athletic performance and their academics is certainly something the presidents like to be affiliated with.

Big 12 offered Air Force to join them around the same time West Virginia.
Navy would be picked by ACC to keep Notre Dame happy.

That is what I am talking about Tulsa not a P5 or P6 school. Aressco wants the AAC be a Power 6 conference as equals with the Big 12. My point is if the AAC wants yo be considered a P6? Ther need to get rid of Tulsa and Tulane.

(06-02-2018 11:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 05:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 04:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 03:50 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don't care enough to go look it up but I think the 4000ish number is including post-graduate numbers, I thought Tulsa's undergrad numbers were more like 3000 to 3200.

I think the differences between Tulsa and the service academies is that the service academies draws from across the country and the world. The service academies have more alumni base and fans than Tulsa. The service academies are sought after by the power 5 conferences because of their tv reached that draws viewers from across the country. This is why Tulsa is not a P5 candidate, and should not be considered one until they get their enrollment levels up. There is no fan base, and they could kill the next tv deal which AAC could get a lot less money. Tulane is in the same boat. They do not have the viewers as well. UTSA seems to have the fan support for the games and for tv ratings for football.

What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You are simply moving the finish line because you've been beaten down in your arguments.

Tulsa even if large enrollment public wouldn't be a P5 candidate in a state with two P5 schools already and a population below 4 million.

Tulsa is a well regarded academic institution with 10 bowl appearances since 2000 and five NCAA tournament appearances in that span making the second round three times and sweet 16 once.

They fit the AAC with their athletic performance and their academics is certainly something the presidents like to be affiliated with.

Big 12 offered Air Force to join them around the same time West Virginia.
Navy would be picked by ACC to keep Notre Dame happy.

That is what I am talking about Tulsa not a P5 or P6 school. Aressco wants the AAC be a Power 6 conference as equals with the Big 12. My point is if the AAC wants yo be considered a P6? Ther need to get rid of Tulsa and Tulane.

So you just gloss over that you have changed the finish line. Instead of they don't belong in Division I, they don't belong in P5 or P6.

Got news for ya. Ain't no collection of schools going to get AAC into the guaranteed NY6 club nor the autonomy club so maybe AAC should just kick out all of its members for failing to get the AAC in.

(06-02-2018 11:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 05:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 04:37 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-02-2018 03:50 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I don't care enough to go look it up but I think the 4000ish number is including post-graduate numbers, I thought Tulsa's undergrad numbers were more like 3000 to 3200.

I think the differences between Tulsa and the service academies is that the service academies draws from across the country and the world. The service academies have more alumni base and fans than Tulsa. The service academies are sought after by the power 5 conferences because of their tv reached that draws viewers from across the country. This is why Tulsa is not a P5 candidate, and should not be considered one until they get their enrollment levels up. There is no fan base, and they could kill the next tv deal which AAC could get a lot less money. Tulane is in the same boat. They do not have the viewers as well. UTSA seems to have the fan support for the games and for tv ratings for football.

What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?

You are simply moving the finish line because you've been beaten down in your arguments.

Tulsa even if large enrollment public wouldn't be a P5 candidate in a state with two P5 schools already and a population below 4 million.

Tulsa is a well regarded academic institution with 10 bowl appearances since 2000 and five NCAA tournament appearances in that span making the second round three times and sweet 16 once.

They fit the AAC with their athletic performance and their academics is certainly something the presidents like to be affiliated with.

Big 12 offered Air Force to join them around the same time West Virginia.
Navy would be picked by ACC to keep Notre Dame happy.

That is what I am talking about Tulsa not a P5 or P6 school. Aressco wants the AAC be a Power 6 conference as equals with the Big 12. My point is if the AAC wants yo be considered a P6? Ther need to get rid of Tulsa and Tulane.

*sigh*


“Big 12 offered Air Force to join them around the same time West Virginia”

Narrator voice: They didn’t

“Navy would be picked by ACC to keep Notre Dame happy.”

Would? WOULD? You’re getting time trippy with the timeline here. What do you mean would? They haven’t. In fact I have never heard them mentioned in connection with the ACC as a prospective member. Some of your spinning plates are about to fall.

“That is what I am talking about Tulsa not a P5 or P6 school. Aressco wants the AAC be a Power 6 conference as equals with the Big 12. My point is if the AAC wants yo be considered a P6? Ther need to get rid of Tulsa and Tulane. Navy would be picked by ACC to keep Notre Dame happy.”




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