An ODU fan has floated the idea of ceasing games against FCS opponents for CUSA (and been pretty much shot down by other fans).

https://csnbbs.com/thread-850862.html

My question is: how do others feel about playing FBS teams? I know several think they are injury risks with low upside.

For me, I've always enjoyed the games. For the most part, I enjoy seeing other teams' fans get surprised when they see the quality of the starters at decent FCS schools. Most of them don't seem to have much idea that the starters at upper-tier FCS schools can hang with most anyone. I also think the depth, speed and strength of these teams helps us in prepping for the remainder of the season (and the game check is an added bonus).

What do others think?

Would imagine the program would be pushed to meet a budget without the money.

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It's a big recruitment tool for us

We need $400,000

Cheap way to get good to excellent exposure/PR

Doesn't usually hurt us as far as playoff bids

Can catapult us in rankings and playoff seed

Fun for fans

Not sure, but I think some or all of the attendance # counts toward our overall attendance.

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It's a false statement that players are more prone to injury playing a FBS opponent vs playing a FCS team. Studies have shown there's absolutely no more of a chance playing the big boys than playing anyone else. The only thing that may prevent an injury to a starter when playing a lessor opponent is getting a huge lead and pulling the better players. But the same can be said if you are getting blown out by a FBS team there is the coaches decision as to whether to leave in the starters or not.

(05-30-2018 03:53 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  It's a false statement that players are more prone to injury playing a FBS opponent vs playing a FCS team. Studies have shown there's absolutely no more of a chance playing the big boys than playing anyone else. The only thing that may prevent an injury to a starter when playing a lessor opponent is getting a huge lead and pulling the better players. But the same can be said if you are getting blown out by a FBS team there is the coaches decision as to whether to leave in the starters or not.

I'd appreciate a link to the studies you cited.

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It's hard to take that suggestion seriously from someone who is a fan of a C-USA football team, a conference that 98% of football fans would be hard pressed to name one team which is a member.

Here is an article about ODU's students not coming out to support them, and spot-on quotes from several students:

"I asked ODU students, via Twitter, why they aren’t going to games and got a dozen or so responses. One from Daniel MacCall, a finance major from Northern Virginia, seemed to hit most of the high points.

He said most ODU students are unfamiliar with C-USA opponents and that home games aren’t as exciting as they used to be. Two games were scheduled too close to the fall and Thanksgiving breaks, he said, and the north end zone that holds the student seating is a lousy place to watch a game.

Tailgating, and then leaving to watch a game at a sports bar, is just more fun than going in person, he said.

Jake Ayers, an electrical engineering student from Richmond, said many students wish ODU had never left the Colonial Athletic Association and in-state rivalries with Richmond, William & Mary and James Madison."

(05-31-2018 08:35 AM)namtrag Wrote:  It's hard to take that suggestion seriously from someone who is a fan of a C-USA football team, a conference that 98% of football fans would be hard pressed to name one team which is a member.

Here is an article about ODU's students not coming out to support them, and spot-on quotes from several students:

"I asked ODU students, via Twitter, why they aren’t going to games and got a dozen or so responses. One from Daniel MacCall, a finance major from Northern Virginia, seemed to hit most of the high points.

He said most ODU students are unfamiliar with C-USA opponents and that home games aren’t as exciting as they used to be. Two games were scheduled too close to the fall and Thanksgiving breaks, he said, and the north end zone that holds the student seating is a lousy place to watch a game.

Tailgating, and then leaving to watch a game at a sports bar, is just more fun than going in person, he said.

Jake Ayers, an electrical engineering student from Richmond, said many students wish ODU had never left the Colonial Athletic Association and in-state rivalries with Richmond, William & Mary and James Madison."

True enough, but they have Va. Tech playing at their place this September. If they can manage a game like that every year or so, that may mollify the fans considerably.

That's a good point, but then they will have 4-5 home games against the likes of Rice, Western Kentucky, UTEP, etc.

I realize it's all driven by money, but they were a natural fit for the CAA, and would have been better off as an overall program if they had come back to the CAA in all sports, especially from a fans' perspective.

If you have a home game against VT and get stomped by 40, does that do anything more for attendance than beating a directional state school?

(05-31-2018 09:53 AM)hktribefan Wrote:  If you have a home game against VT and get stomped by 40, does that do anything more for attendance than beating a directional state school?

Yes, because VT fans that live in Tidewater aren't going to see ODU play a directional state school.

Lots of JMU fans here in Tidewater. That game would be more rabidly attended than the VT game.

(05-30-2018 02:37 PM)Tribal Wrote:  It's a big recruitment tool for us

Doesn't usually hurt us as far as playoff bids

I did not play collegiate football and so it is possible that other posters who underwent the recruitment process can chime in to disagree ...but I do not think that getting beaten every year by an FBS opponent, as we are most years and many times by large margins, serves as a recruiting inducement. I would think that the possibility of regular appearances in the FCS playoffs (hopefully to the point of being routine) would serve as more of an attraction.

Speaking of playoffs, it is true that an FBS loss wouldn't necessarily hurt us for playoff considerations -- as long as we qualify for the playoffs anyway. However, I maintain that trading an almost guaranteed FBS loss for an FCS win would go a lot further toward getting us into the playoffs on a routine basis. The formula is there for FCS success (6 or more home games and no guaranteed losses) and all we have to do is follow it. JMU already has and they have won 2 national championships.

By the way, I know 6 home games is not going to happen in an 11 game schedule and the reason is because we need the guaranteed money from the FBS school. Just saying, though, that ideally we would want to always play 6 home games.

(05-30-2018 05:08 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(05-30-2018 03:53 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  It's a false statement that players are more prone to injury playing a FBS opponent vs playing a FCS team. Studies have shown there's absolutely no more of a chance playing the big boys than playing anyone else. The only thing that may prevent an injury to a starter when playing a lessor opponent is getting a huge lead and pulling the better players. But the same can be said if you are getting blown out by a FBS team there is the coaches decision as to whether to leave in the starters or not.

I'd appreciate a link to the studies you cited.

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I do worry about QB injuries is you are an FCS team that is over matched on the offensive line against a good FBS team. I can think of 2 QBs injured against UVA in the late 80s/early 90's and will never forget losing our QB against UNC and a cheap shop.

I do think the FCS vs FBS match cup increases the probability of the QB getting blindsided. If you throw only quick passes, maybe it doesn't happen, but if you are trying to win the game as W&M was in the 3 games I can remember with QB injuries, you run your offense and wind up with some long yardage situation because you can't run very well against a bigger d line.

(05-31-2018 11:23 AM)namtrag Wrote:  Lots of JMU fans here in Tidewater. That game would be more rabidly attended than the VT game.

(05-31-2018 12:45 PM)NC Tribe Wrote:  I do worry about QB injuries is you are an FCS team that is over matched on the offensive line against a good FBS team. I can think of 2 QBs injured against UVA in the late 80s/early 90's and will never forget losing our QB against UNC and a cheap shop.

I do think the FCS vs FBS match cup increases the probability of the QB getting blindsided. If you throw only quick passes, maybe it doesn't happen, but if you are trying to win the game as W&M was in the 3 games I can remember with QB injuries, you run your offense and wind up with some long yardage situation because you can't run very well against a bigger d line.

That UNC game wasn't much different than the cheap shot we took in a game vs. VMI in '97. Injuries and cheap shots happen vs. big time teams and scrubs. FCS vs. FBS differences in ability are overstated in general. It's not like a high school team playing an NFL team, it's like a medium sized high school team playing a large high school team.

(05-31-2018 08:18 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 12:45 PM)NC Tribe Wrote:  I do worry about QB injuries is you are an FCS team that is over matched on the offensive line against a good FBS team. I can think of 2 QBs injured against UVA in the late 80s/early 90's and will never forget losing our QB against UNC and a cheap shop.

I do think the FCS vs FBS match cup increases the probability of the QB getting blindsided. If you throw only quick passes, maybe it doesn't happen, but if you are trying to win the game as W&M was in the 3 games I can remember with QB injuries, you run your offense and wind up with some long yardage situation because you can't run very well against a bigger d line.

That UNC game wasn't much different than the cheap shot we took in a game vs. VMI in '97. Injuries and cheap shots happen vs. big time teams and scrubs. FCS vs. FBS differences in ability are overstated in general. It's not like a high school team playing an NFL team, it's like a medium sized high school team playing a large high school team.

The two injuries I believe you are referencing:

1) 1988 - John Brosnahan - sliced a tendon in his throwing hand against a helmet snap or facemask clip while following through on a pass. Fluke play that could have happened in any game. Missed several games the rest of the season.

2) 1994 - Shawn Knight - I don't recall if it was a shoulder injury, wrist injury or ankle injury (he was often banged up). Shawn was somewhat prone to shoulder injuries having had recurring pains in 1992 (I recall him having an issue just before the Epson Ivy Bowl in January 1993 - played after the 1992 season) as well as being injured in the shoulder against Delaware in 1993 - causing him to miss a game or two (definitely missed Tulane game). If it was his wrist or ankle, those are things that just happen regardless of the level of competition. Heck, those are often "non-contact injuries".

In short, my opinion is neither of these QB injuries against UVA had anything to do with playing an FBS (1-A at the time) school.

(05-31-2018 10:18 PM)Tribe1693 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 08:18 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 12:45 PM)NC Tribe Wrote:  I do worry about QB injuries is you are an FCS team that is over matched on the offensive line against a good FBS team. I can think of 2 QBs injured against UVA in the late 80s/early 90's and will never forget losing our QB against UNC and a cheap shop.

I do think the FCS vs FBS match cup increases the probability of the QB getting blindsided. If you throw only quick passes, maybe it doesn't happen, but if you are trying to win the game as W&M was in the 3 games I can remember with QB injuries, you run your offense and wind up with some long yardage situation because you can't run very well against a bigger d line.

That UNC game wasn't much different than the cheap shot we took in a game vs. VMI in '97. Injuries and cheap shots happen vs. big time teams and scrubs. FCS vs. FBS differences in ability are overstated in general. It's not like a high school team playing an NFL team, it's like a medium sized high school team playing a large high school team.

The two injuries I believe you are referencing:

1) 1988 - John Brosnahan - sliced a tendon in his throwing hand against a helmet snap or facemask clip while following through on a pass. Fluke play that could have happened in any game. Missed several games the rest of the season.

2) 1994 - Shawn Knight - I don't recall if it was a shoulder injury, wrist injury or ankle injury (he was often banged up). Shawn was somewhat prone to shoulder injuries having had recurring pains in 1992 (I recall him having an issue just before the Epson Ivy Bowl in January 1993 - played after the 1992 season) as well as being injured in the shoulder against Delaware in 1993 - causing him to miss a game or two (definitely missed Tulane game). If it was his wrist or ankle, those are things that just happen regardless of the level of competition. Heck, those are often "non-contact injuries".

In short, my opinion is neither of these QB injuries against UVA had anything to do with playing an FBS (1-A at the time) school.

Mike Cook at VMI. Derailed a very promising season.

Mike Paulus at UNC.

(06-01-2018 05:44 AM)TribeNomad Wrote:  Mike Cook at VMI. Derailed a very promising season.

Mike Paulus at UNC.

These were the two biggest "intentional" injuries, in my memory.

The Paulus injury in the game at UNC, where we led 13-7 well into the fourth quarter, was intentional.
He had completed something like 14 of 15 passes and was racked up on a blatant late hit, hurt his shoulder and never was the same player again.

(06-01-2018 12:00 PM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  The Paulus injury in the game at UNC, where we led 13-7 well into the fourth quarter, was intentional.
He had completed something like 14 of 15 passes and was racked up on a blatant late hit, hurt his shoulder and never was the same player again.

In addition to the fact that Paulus had transferred to W&M from UNC.