20 game league schedule. 16 games set in advance last four using weighted pods with home and away games against each pod member. (1, 2, 3)(4,5,6)(7,8,9),(10,11,12). Any team in pod 1-2-3 is guaranteed to be seeded no lower than 3. Results from pod play determine seed. So if 1 going into pod play concludes the season with the best 20 game Sun Belt record but finishes 3rd in pod play, that team would be the three seed despite having the best 20 game league record.

Tournament stays in NOLA. 1 and 2 get a bye to the semi-finals in NOLA. 3-4 get a bye to the quarterfinals and host. 7 hosts 10 with winner going to 6, 8 hosts 9 with the winner going to 5. Winner of 6/7/10 goes to 3 and winner of 5/8/9 goes to 4.

So it’s effectively 2 seasons?

First 16 games determine and lock-in 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-12.

Standings reset. Last 4 games are a double round robin within each pod. Tiebreaker would be 16-game record if teams split 2-2/2-2/2-2 within a pod.

Conference tournament sounds a lot like WCC is going to.

(06-04-2018 03:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  20 game league schedule. 16 games set in advance last four using weighted pods with home and away games against each pod member. (1, 2, 3)(4,5,6)(7,8,9),(10,11,12). Any team in pod 1-2-3 is guaranteed to be seeded no lower than 3. Results from pod play determine seed. So if 1 going into pod play concludes the season with the best 20 game Sun Belt record but finishes 3rd in pod play, that team would be the three seed despite having the best 20 game league record.

Tournament stays in NOLA. 1 and 2 get a bye to the semi-finals in NOLA. 3-4 get a bye to the quarterfinals and host. 7 hosts 10 with winner going to 6, 8 hosts 9 with the winner going to 5. Winner of 6/7/10 goes to 3 and winner of 5/8/9 goes to 4.

In this format, two teams could conceivably play each other five times in one season, if they meet in the conference tournament.

Would that be a record? Have any two teams in D1 hoops ever played each other five times in a season?

Potentially could be really squirelly
if A is 16-0 and B is 13-3 and C is 10-6
If A goes 0-4 in pod to be 16-4 and B goes 2-2 to be 15-3 and C goes 4-0 to be 14-6
C will be 1
B will be 2 and both go to NOLA
A will be 3 and host a quarterfinal game.

(06-04-2018 03:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  20 game league schedule. 16 games set in advance last four using weighted pods with home and away games against each pod member. (1, 2, 3)(4,5,6)(7,8,9),(10,11,12). Any team in pod 1-2-3 is guaranteed to be seeded no lower than 3. Results from pod play determine seed. So if 1 going into pod play concludes the season with the best 20 game Sun Belt record but finishes 3rd in pod play, that team would be the three seed despite having the best 20 game league record.

Tournament stays in NOLA. 1 and 2 get a bye to the semi-finals in NOLA. 3-4 get a bye to the quarterfinals and host. 7 hosts 10 with winner going to 6, 8 hosts 9 with the winner going to 5. Winner of 6/7/10 goes to 3 and winner of 5/8/9 goes to 4.

In this format, two teams could conceivably play each other five times in one season, if they meet in the conference tournament.

Would that be a record? Have any two teams in D1 hoops ever played each other five times in a season?

Yep

Five times. If two teams in the same division are in the same pod they can meet four times in the regular season (2 division and then again twice in the pod and again in the conference tournament!

(06-04-2018 03:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  20 game league schedule. 16 games set in advance last four using weighted pods with home and away games against each pod member. (1, 2, 3)(4,5,6)(7,8,9),(10,11,12). Any team in pod 1-2-3 is guaranteed to be seeded no lower than 3. Results from pod play determine seed. So if 1 going into pod play concludes the season with the best 20 game Sun Belt record but finishes 3rd in pod play, that team would be the three seed despite having the best 20 game league record.

Tournament stays in NOLA. 1 and 2 get a bye to the semi-finals in NOLA. 3-4 get a bye to the quarterfinals and host. 7 hosts 10 with winner going to 6, 8 hosts 9 with the winner going to 5. Winner of 6/7/10 goes to 3 and winner of 5/8/9 goes to 4.

In this format, two teams could conceivably play each other five times in one season, if they meet in the conference tournament.

Would that be a record? Have any two teams in D1 hoops ever played each other five times in a season?

I'm sure this has happened before and/or since, but what springs to mind is N.C. State and Virginia playing four times in the 82-83 season (twice in the regular season, once in the ACC final, once in Elite Eight). They split the four, but State got the two that mattered.

(06-04-2018 03:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  20 game league schedule. 16 games set in advance last four using weighted pods with home and away games against each pod member. (1, 2, 3)(4,5,6)(7,8,9),(10,11,12). Any team in pod 1-2-3 is guaranteed to be seeded no lower than 3. Results from pod play determine seed. So if 1 going into pod play concludes the season with the best 20 game Sun Belt record but finishes 3rd in pod play, that team would be the three seed despite having the best 20 game league record.

Tournament stays in NOLA. 1 and 2 get a bye to the semi-finals in NOLA. 3-4 get a bye to the quarterfinals and host. 7 hosts 10 with winner going to 6, 8 hosts 9 with the winner going to 5. Winner of 6/7/10 goes to 3 and winner of 5/8/9 goes to 4.

In this format, two teams could conceivably play each other five times in one season, if they meet in the conference tournament.

Would that be a record? Have any two teams in D1 hoops ever played each other five times in a season?

Yep

Five times. If two teams in the same division are in the same pod they can meet four times in the regular season (2 division and then again twice in the pod and again in the conference tournament!

In theory, six times if they also meet in the post-conference postseason.

And in super-duper will-never-happen-even-in-a-world-where-Vegas-made-the-Stanley-Cup-final-in-its-first-season mode: Eight times (twice in the regular season, twice in the pod, once in the conference tournament, then three times in the CBI best-of-three final).

(06-04-2018 05:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm sure this has happened before and/or since, but what springs to mind is N.C. State and Virginia playing four times in the 82-83 season (twice in the regular season, once in the ACC final, once in Elite Eight). They split the four, but State got the two that mattered.

I bet it's happened a number of times. E.g. in 1984-1985, Georgetown and St Johns played four times as well - twice regular season, Big East tournament, and Final 4.

(06-04-2018 03:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  20 game league schedule. 16 games set in advance last four using weighted pods with home and away games against each pod member. (1, 2, 3)(4,5,6)(7,8,9),(10,11,12). Any team in pod 1-2-3 is guaranteed to be seeded no lower than 3. Results from pod play determine seed. So if 1 going into pod play concludes the season with the best 20 game Sun Belt record but finishes 3rd in pod play, that team would be the three seed despite having the best 20 game league record.

Tournament stays in NOLA. 1 and 2 get a bye to the semi-finals in NOLA. 3-4 get a bye to the quarterfinals and host. 7 hosts 10 with winner going to 6, 8 hosts 9 with the winner going to 5. Winner of 6/7/10 goes to 3 and winner of 5/8/9 goes to 4.

In this format, two teams could conceivably play each other five times in one season, if they meet in the conference tournament.

Would that be a record? Have any two teams in D1 hoops ever played each other five times in a season?

I don't know about 5, but Kentucky played Alabama and LSU 4 times in I believe 1987. Beat them twice in regular season, beat each in SEC tourney and then the NCAA put them in UK's region (which lead to the rule just recently repealed that stopped teams from the same conference playing before regional finals). UK beat Alabama for the 4th time, but narrowly lost to LSU in the regional final.

(06-04-2018 06:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 05:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  I'm sure this has happened before and/or since, but what springs to mind is N.C. State and Virginia playing four times in the 82-83 season (twice in the regular season, once in the ACC final, once in Elite Eight). They split the four, but State got the two that mattered.

I bet it's happened a number of times. E.g. in 1984-1985, Georgetown and St Johns played four times as well - twice regular season, Big East tournament, and Final 4.

And Cincinnati-Memphis in 1991-92; the Bearcats won all four.

A little trivia

From the 1946-47 through the 1978-79 season, the Big Eight hosted a mid-season holiday tournament in which all of the league teams participated. From the 1946-47 through the 1957-58 season when the conference had fewer than eight members, non-member schools would be invited in order to field an 8-team tournament. Among teams invited from outside the conference, only SMU during the 1946-47 season ever won the tournament.

Starting during the 1976-77 season, the conference held a post-season tournament in order to determine the conference bid to the NCAA Tournament. All Big Eight men's basketball post-season tournaments were held at Kemper Arena in Kansas City, MO. However, from the 1976-77 to 1984-85 season, quarterfinal rounds were played on the home courts of the top four seeds in the tournament.

So this means for 3 seasons, 1976-77, 1977-78, and 1978-79, the Big 8 had both a holiday tourney and post-season tourney, making it possible for teams to play 4 times a season. In fact, because every team played 3 games in the holiday tourney, it was quite common.

Just looking at Iowa State for example. ISU played Mizzou 4 times in the 1977-78 season and played Kansas 4 times in the 1978-79 season.

(06-04-2018 03:54 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Potentially could be really squirelly
if A is 16-0 and B is 13-3 and C is 10-6
If A goes 0-4 in pod to be 16-4 and B goes 2-2 to be 15-3 and C goes 4-0 to be 14-6
C will be 1
B will be 2 and both go to NOLA
A will be 3 and host a quarterfinal game.

Who would be the regular season champ in this scenario. The team with the best overall record (Team A at 16-4), or the team that won the pod (Team C at 4-0), or someone else.

The most memorable 4 time meeting I can remember is Danny Manning and Kansas meeting Stacy King, Mookie Blaylock and HArvey Grant for the 4th time in the NCAA championship game, with Oklahoma winning the first three. They did not get the sweep.

I don't think anyone has ever met 5 times in the same year. About the only way it could happen (previously) are two teams in a pre-arranged holiday tournament, where one team changes leagues a year or two before, and it is too late to change (generally two teams in the same conference cannot be in a preseason tourney) and they end up playing in the tourney, then play twice in conference (where one has moved to join the other), and then in the conference tourney, and in the NCAA tourney.

(06-05-2018 10:04 AM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:54 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Potentially could be really squirelly
if A is 16-0 and B is 13-3 and C is 10-6
If A goes 0-4 in pod to be 16-4 and B goes 2-2 to be 15-3 and C goes 4-0 to be 14-6
C will be 1
B will be 2 and both go to NOLA
A will be 3 and host a quarterfinal game.

Who would be the regular season champ in this scenario. The team with the best overall record (Team A at 16-4), or the team that won the pod (Team C at 4-0), or someone else.

Release doesn't address that.

Makes a difference when it comes to the NIT.

This is very similar to the CUSA proposal. Is still don't see how taking your top teams and giving them 4 possible losses vs 4 probable wins is going to get another NCAA bid.

(06-04-2018 05:43 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-04-2018 03:30 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  20 game league schedule. 16 games set in advance last four using weighted pods with home and away games against each pod member. (1, 2, 3)(4,5,6)(7,8,9),(10,11,12). Any team in pod 1-2-3 is guaranteed to be seeded no lower than 3. Results from pod play determine seed. So if 1 going into pod play concludes the season with the best 20 game Sun Belt record but finishes 3rd in pod play, that team would be the three seed despite having the best 20 game league record.

Tournament stays in NOLA. 1 and 2 get a bye to the semi-finals in NOLA. 3-4 get a bye to the quarterfinals and host. 7 hosts 10 with winner going to 6, 8 hosts 9 with the winner going to 5. Winner of 6/7/10 goes to 3 and winner of 5/8/9 goes to 4.

In this format, two teams could conceivably play each other five times in one season, if they meet in the conference tournament.

Would that be a record? Have any two teams in D1 hoops ever played each other five times in a season?

I'm sure this has happened before and/or since, but what springs to mind is N.C. State and Virginia playing four times in the 82-83 season (twice in the regular season, once in the ACC final, once in Elite Eight). They split the four, but State got the two that mattered.

And UC beat Penny & Memphis (State) 4 times in 1992 including in E-8

(06-05-2018 01:40 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  This is very similar to the CUSA proposal. Is still don't see how taking your top teams and giving them 4 possible losses vs 4 probable wins is going to get another NCAA bid.

RPI. Especially if you have teams in the bottom third (like the Sun Belt did with half the members). More games against the top teams (two home, two road) will give better chance to boost RPI versus games against bottom feeders).

The goal is to boost the RPI of the teams at the top-- to either allow a better seed, or give the conference an outside chance at two bids.

Interesting what Jon Rothstein said today-
"If you are conference like the @atlantic10 @MountainWest and you're not creatively trying to find ways to get your teams into the Tourney, you're an endangered species."

(06-05-2018 03:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 01:40 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  This is very similar to the CUSA proposal. Is still don't see how taking your top teams and giving them 4 possible losses vs 4 probable wins is going to get another NCAA bid.

RPI. Especially if you have teams in the bottom third (like the Sun Belt did with half the members). More games against the top teams (two home, two road) will give better chance to boost RPI versus games against bottom feeders).

The goal is to boost the RPI of the teams at the top-- to either allow a better seed, or give the conference an outside chance at two bids.

I understand the math, I think the application is flawed.

(06-05-2018 01:40 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  This is very similar to the CUSA proposal. Is still don't see how taking your top teams and giving them 4 possible losses vs 4 probable wins is going to get another NCAA bid.

That's one issue, yeah. Take the 2018 Sun Belt standings. ULL's final RPI was 63 per realtimerpi. Next was UT Arlington at 108 and Georgia State at 120. Realistically, what a conference like the SBC is hoping for is to boost the RPI of its best team enough that it might get an at-large bid if it fails in the conference tournament.

How much does this help a team like 2018 ULL, though? It probably boosts their RPI a total of 10 places at most -- if they win at least 3 of those 4 pod games. But even if a team was boosted 30 points it might not be enough. The teams who were 33rd and 34th in realtimerpi (MTSU and USC) were not selected, while the 64th and 66th RPI teams (NC State and Arizona State) were selected. What did the committee see in those two teams? "Quality wins" is the only explanation. NC State beat teams with RPI of 7 and 13; ASU beat the #3 and 5 RPI teams.

A conference pod system can't help a team like ULL to get wins like that. If they're not scheduling and winning those games on their own, then 4, 5, or 6 games against a conference mate with a 90-100 RPI isn't going to get them an at-large berth.