The reality is MH's compensation would of ranked about #100 in all of Division 1 coaches if he hit all his incentives meaning winning the NC every year. You could argue on average he had a top 50-60 program over the last 3 years, or in that ballpark.

I struggle trying to figure out what the appropriate pay should be at JMU. I hoped last year he would get in the range of $1,000,000 a year with his new contract. That's top 85 in Division 1 coaches. I was surprised how low his new contract was.

Houston was a huge bargain with a salary in the 500s and total potential of 700s. If JMU moved up they would have to pay more than what was paid Houston. Why can't they pay more now? 23,000k a game. All the high priced seats are sold. Don't have to pay for as many scholarships. Why is the base only 500k for a coach that goes to the NC his first two years?

Seems like we are cheap on the level of football (FCS versus FBS). Cheap on scholarships. Cheap on coaches pay versus FBS, but well supported at the gate by our fans.

JMU had a higher attendance than 42 FBS schools in 2017. (I counted by hand, so BDK if I'm off one or two, give me some slack.) Paid less for scholarships, and paid less for Coaches. The premium seats at JMU are probably way higher than what those 42 FBS schools as well.

Why move up if the fans will pay for FBS and accept the minors? And if it's not the minors, what don't we pay like a top 75 program?

If you don't pay coaches like a top 75 program, and you don't have the scholarships that top 75 programs have you are swimming up stream trying to maintain a top 75 program.

dont have the numbers handy, but I doubt our revenue is similar to a top 75 program( no bowl or TV revenue) sure, money is an issue, but the gap between JMU and a good G5 job is always going to be an issue. why pay an additional $200k a year to ward off G5 opportunities, when that coach is in all likely hood going to leave to climb the ladder. over 4-5 years, that is an additional $1 m that you can use when proven to try and retain.

Until we actually intend to move to FBS, it's irrelevant what we pay compared to FBS schools. The fact is we pay way more than 99% of our peers (FCS schools). A salary of $1M wasn't going to keep Houston at JMU with ECU coming after him.

Right now we're #107 in Massey. While his first couple years we were much higher...it's hard to count on that every year. I do think his bonuses should have been much higher, especially for winning the NC. His bonus for winning the NC was the same as it was to make it, while I would argue that the payoff to the school is incredibly higher when we win it. I don't think his base was out of line, just the bonuses should have been better. Back to this year...we ended out of the top 100. Should we still pay the coach a top 60 salary? That's a very high risk proposition. Sure, if the team goes 10-1 every year and makes it to at least the semis it makes sense to pay them well, but a couple 7-4/8-3 seasons and people would be up in arms. Hell, on here the FIRE XXXXX would start after the second loss. And in the unlikely scenario that we do finally move up but we're already paying them as a top 60 coach...then what...we pay them like a top 40 coach even as a G5 school?

As much as we want to think we're better than FCS, the fact is we're still FCS. While our fundraising and revenue have improved...we're still not where we need to be. You can't regularly have conversations about the high percentage of student fees that go toward athletics and then pay the FB coach a million dollar base salary.

I also think Houston took a slightly lower contract to make sure he got his staff paid well and to demand the indoor practice facility.

Also agree with PG that our pay isn't the issue. There's not THAT big of a pay gap between JMU making it to the NC and a mediocre G5 team. As much as some of us love to talk about the top of FCS being as good or better than the bottom of FBS...when it comes to the coaching ladder, that FBS label still matters. Unless we move up we will always be a stepping stone for any coach that wants to move up to any decent P5 school. Doesn't matter if we pay over a million dollars...good coaches will always leave for greener pastures. The only thing that moving up would do is reduce the number of schools that would be viewed as above JMU. Unless you're Clemson or Alabama, you're always at risk of losing your coach...and those could always want the challenge of the NFL.

(12-03-2018 10:27 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  Until we actually intend to move to FBS, it's irrelevant what we pay compared to FBS schools. The fact is we pay way more than 99% of our peers (FCS schools). A salary of $1M wasn't going to keep Houston at JMU with ECU coming after him.

But would it of stop a Charlotte or ODU with a $1,000,000 salary, and a $1,000,000 buy out? I think it would.

Looks like a 5 year deal starting at $1.3M ending at $1.67M

http://footballscoop.com/news/east-carol...ead-coach/

(12-03-2018 11:27 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 10:27 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  Until we actually intend to move to FBS, it's irrelevant what we pay compared to FBS schools. The fact is we pay way more than 99% of our peers (FCS schools). A salary of $1M wasn't going to keep Houston at JMU with ECU coming after him.

But would it of stop a Charlotte or ODU with a $1,000,000 salary, and a $1,000,000 buy out? I think it would.

but if we hire a coach that doesnt become a hot name or doesnt want to leave, we are paying him an extra $300k a year needlessly. let him prove himself and then we can adjust to retain as best we can. when they leave, it is as much about climbing as it is $$$. money alone wont keep 'em, so why pay it when we dont need to

(12-03-2018 12:39 PM)arlingtonduke Wrote:  Looks like a 5 year deal starting at $1.3M ending at $1.67M

http://footballscoop.com/news/east-carol...ead-coach/

It's likely this low because we didn't end up in a bidding war. Heard through someone on the BOT that we were prepared to go up to around 1.8 or 1.9 to get him.

I think this is a very interesting question and can obviously be looked at from a bunch of different angles.

Why does Charlotte who is abysmal performance wise in a conference that power rates near the Missouri Valley with no fans spend 1 million + a year on a coach? The easy argument is that is what the market demands with supply and demand forces in Conference USA. In the money sports (or lack of money) it seems like what could be going to pay the players gets funneled to the coaches or facilities. Of course with TV money dried up and only college football playoff subsidies coming in for revenue (why do the BCS big conference teams even pay this?) most of these schools are lighting money on fire.

Big salaries of coaches is always topped off by the additional money from donors. JMU has some cool things going with the Alpha Dogs but would it be possible to supplement the next 500k a year? Seems doubtful but that is what it would take.

Houston was sniffing FBS jobs after every year he was at JMU on top of kicking A$$ and taking names. I would assume the Mike Houston $ is not the new baseline for JMU football coaches.

I understand the argument here though, if the job is kind of in its own world in FCS (think Mark Few at Gonzaga) then the other teams in the conference are not what you use to benchmark what the salary should be.

What if the facilities and program are so appealing you don't have to over pay to keep the party going?

(12-03-2018 12:57 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 12:39 PM)arlingtonduke Wrote:  Looks like a 5 year deal starting at $1.3M ending at $1.67M

http://footballscoop.com/news/east-carol...ead-coach/

It's likely this low because we didn't end up in a bidding war. Heard through someone on the BOT that we were prepared to go up to around 1.8 or 1.9 to get him.

Yep I figured when Charlotte pulled the plug last Friday that took some leverage away.

Quote: It's likely this low because we didn't end up in a bidding war. Heard through someone on the BOT that we were prepared to go up to around 1.8 or 1.9 to get him.

Considering he is already looking at better jobs might want to go for a preemptive strike!

https://twitter.com/cusaReport/status/10...0008144896

(12-03-2018 10:07 AM)Dukester Wrote:  The reality is MH's compensation would of ranked about #100 in all of Division 1 coaches if he hit all his incentives meaning winning the NC every year. You could argue on average he had a top 50-60 program over the last 3 years, or in that ballpark.

I struggle trying to figure out what the appropriate pay should be at JMU. I hoped last year he would get in the range of $1,000,000 a year with his new contract. That's top 85 in Division 1 coaches. I was surprised how low his new contract was.

Houston was a huge bargain with a salary in the 500s and total potential of 700s. If JMU moved up they would have to pay more than what was paid Houston. Why can't they pay more now? 23,000k a game. All the high priced seats are sold. Don't have to pay for as many scholarships. Why is the base only 500k for a coach that goes to the NC his first two years?

Seems like we are cheap on the level of football (FCS versus FBS). Cheap on scholarships. Cheap on coaches pay versus FBS, but well supported at the gate by our fans.

JMU had a higher attendance than 42 FBS schools in 2017. (I counted by hand, so BDK if I'm off one or two, give me some slack.) Paid less for scholarships, and paid less for Coaches. The premium seats at JMU are probably way higher than what those 42 FBS schools as well.

Why move up if the fans will pay for FBS and accept the minors? And if it's not the minors, what don't we pay like a top 75 program?

If you don't pay coaches like a top 75 program, and you don't have the scholarships that top 75 programs have you are swimming up stream trying to maintain a top 75 program.

If you raised MH’s salary by 50%, then you’d naturally raise the 10 assistants by 50% also to keep the same ratio..So you wouldn’t be adding just 250-300k a year for MH, you’d be adding 600-700k. And aren’t there percentage base eployee payrool taxes on top of that. Can’t justify that for I-AA ball..

(12-03-2018 12:47 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 11:27 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 10:27 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  Until we actually intend to move to FBS, it's irrelevant what we pay compared to FBS schools. The fact is we pay way more than 99% of our peers (FCS schools). A salary of $1M wasn't going to keep Houston at JMU with ECU coming after him.

But would it of stop a Charlotte or ODU with a $1,000,000 salary, and a $1,000,000 buy out? I think it would.

but if we hire a coach that doesnt become a hot name or doesnt want to leave, we are paying him an extra $300k a year needlessly. let him prove himself and then we can adjust to retain as best we can. when they leave, it is as much about climbing as it is $$$. money alone wont keep 'em, so why pay it when we dont need to

My comment was about the new contract for a coach that had gone to the NC his first two years. For instance when GMU upped Laranaga's salary, and VCU upped Smart's pay to keep them.

My comment was not to stop power 5 or the AAC schools. Mine was to stop the Sun Belt/CUSA/Charlotte's that were going to offer only $200,000-300,000 more.

(12-03-2018 12:47 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 11:27 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 10:27 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  Until we actually intend to move to FBS, it's irrelevant what we pay compared to FBS schools. The fact is we pay way more than 99% of our peers (FCS schools). A salary of $1M wasn't going to keep Houston at JMU with ECU coming after him.

But would it of stop a Charlotte or ODU with a $1,000,000 salary, and a $1,000,000 buy out? I think it would.

but if we hire a coach that doesnt become a hot name or doesnt want to leave, we are paying him an extra $300k a year needlessly. let him prove himself and then we can adjust to retain as best we can. when they leave, it is as much about climbing as it is $$$. money alone wont keep 'em, so why pay it when we dont need to

After Withers to Texas St, and Houston saying he had interest in Charlotte (they negotiated a deal and thought they had him), I’m not sure it is about anything more than $$$ for these guys.

JMU’s football is vastly superior to those two schools in every way but the label.

Guess you can argue the FBS label will open more doors, but if that’s the case then we need to be on the first FBS bound bus too.

(12-03-2018 01:01 PM)UofRfan Wrote:  I think this is a very interesting question and can obviously be looked at from a bunch of different angles.

Why does Charlotte who is abysmal performance wise in a conference that power rates near the Missouri Valley with no fans spend 1 million + a year on a coach? The easy argument is that is what the market demands with supply and demand forces in Conference USA. In the money sports (or lack of money) it seems like what could be going to pay the players gets funneled to the coaches or facilities. Of course with TV money dried up and only college football playoff subsidies coming in for revenue (why do the BCS big conference teams even pay this?) most of these schools are lighting money on fire.

its hush money.

if they didn't pay that, the left behinds would be bringing every lawsuit under the sun that they can.

(12-03-2018 02:57 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 12:47 PM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 11:27 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 10:27 AM)JMU_Newbill Wrote:  Until we actually intend to move to FBS, it's irrelevant what we pay compared to FBS schools. The fact is we pay way more than 99% of our peers (FCS schools). A salary of $1M wasn't going to keep Houston at JMU with ECU coming after him.

But would it of stop a Charlotte or ODU with a $1,000,000 salary, and a $1,000,000 buy out? I think it would.

but if we hire a coach that doesnt become a hot name or doesnt want to leave, we are paying him an extra $300k a year needlessly. let him prove himself and then we can adjust to retain as best we can. when they leave, it is as much about climbing as it is $$$. money alone wont keep 'em, so why pay it when we dont need to

After Withers to Texas St, and Houston saying he had interest in Charlotte (they negotiated a deal and thought they had him), I’m not sure it is about anything more than $$$ for these guys.

JMU’s football is vastly superior to those two schools in every way but the label.

Guess you can argue the FBS label will open more doors, but if that’s the case then we need to be on the first FBS bound bus too.

Yes, that little label makes a lot of difference in numerous ways to both schools and fans.

(12-03-2018 02:04 PM)UofRfan Wrote:  https://twitter.com/cusaReport/status/10...0008144896

the pictures from the CUSA title game were embarrassing.

no way anywhere near 20k were there.

(12-03-2018 03:04 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 02:04 PM)UofRfan Wrote:  https://twitter.com/cusaReport/status/10...0008144896

the pictures from the CUSA title game were embarrassing.

no way anywhere near 20k were there.

If NDSU gets knocked out, the FCS national championship will be lucky to draw 5-10k. Even sadder.

Outside JMU, no CAA games reach 20k fans either, and many are quite embarrassing attendance wise. I felt at home, but not blown away when we visited ECU, that felt like a slightly larger peer school. Visiting some of the CAA schools feels like glorified high school games.

Reality is JMU is at mid-tier or better FBS G5 numbers already, and we dwarf most of FCS by every single metric.

(12-03-2018 03:14 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 03:04 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 02:04 PM)UofRfan Wrote:  https://twitter.com/cusaReport/status/10...0008144896

the pictures from the CUSA title game were embarrassing.

no way anywhere near 20k were there.

If NDSU gets knocked out, the FCS national championship will be lucky to draw 5-10k. Even sadder.

Outside JMU, no CAA games reach 20k fans either, and many are quite embarrassing attendance wise. I felt at home, but not blown away when we visited ECU, that felt like a slightly larger peer school. Visiting some of the CAA schools feels like glorified high school games.

Reality is JMU is at mid-tier or better FBS G5 numbers already, and we dwarf most of FCS by every single metric.

True. UD reached 18.7-19.2k 3 times. If Rocco gets them back to a national power they’ll be regularly over 20k again like they used to be a decade ago and prior...