(07-14-2019 08:18 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  the smartest thing to do

The smartest thing to do would be to form a small, regional league that lets the others figure it out themselves and maybe, if we're lucky, those left out will drop back to D2 when it becomes too expensive to sustain, which will improve recruiting for that small league and increase revenue at the end of the day.

(07-15-2019 12:05 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 04:09 AM)Cardiff Wrote:  CUSA/Sun Belt could agree to let six teams switch leagues without paying any departure/entry fees:

Marshall, ODU, UNCC >>>> Sun Belt
Arkansas State, Texas State, ULL >>>> CUSA

Which would mean:
CUSA West
UTEP
UTSA
TXST
UNT
RICE
LT
ULL

CUSA East
ASU
USM
UAB
MTSU
WKU
FIU
FAU

Marshall
ODU
WKU
MTSU
USM
Appy State
Ga Southern
FAU
FIU
La Tech
UAB
ECU

That works for me.

(07-15-2019 02:32 PM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:18 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  the smartest thing to do

The smartest thing to do would be to form a small, regional league that lets the others figure it out themselves and maybe, if we're lucky, those left out will drop back to D2 when it becomes too expensive to sustain, which will improve recruiting for that small league and increase revenue at the end of the day.

this is the same failed thinking repeating itself

the idea of the "small regional league" is a failure....that is just a concept of hey lets all get together and offer basically the same thing as the other and pretend someone will think there is a difference

when you get where you are having pairs of schools in the same states as the basis of a conference you are going to have issues

the issue is much worse when you get to 3 or horribly 4 schools in the same state, but a conference of something like FIU, FAU, Troy, USA, ULM, Louisiana, stAte, USM looks OK on the outside, but those pairs of schools are going to end up struggling and pulling the conference down

it is a much smarter idea to split those pairs and let them play in the OOC

plus the left outs from some of that group would not be remotely considering dropping down.....most would try the stupid "lets get every school in the state in here" and head to failure, but the ones that ended up in the mismatched hodge podge conference would eventually have a much better chance to sustain success IMO

because they would offer recruits something different like TCU did in the MWC and UTEP did in the WAC (and even UTSA and Texas State in the WAC and LaTech in the WAC)

and there is no chance that most of those programs are not going to play other programs in their region or state in the OOC and eventually the "left out" one in the state will differentiate themselves and it will be an issue for the ones grouped together.....that is just how history shows it happens time and again

smaller is better, but you need to spread out some and differentiate not group to end up trying to sell basically the same thing to recruits

The "small regional league" is the ticket to FCS.

MWC please save us from this Southern based mess!

Going by the below travel/game cost has not increased that much for most schools in CUSA.

Western joined in 2014 so going by cost in 2012 and 2013 there really isnt much difference. Any difference could easily been OOC scheduling. Any increase 2 or more years after joining would have to be OOC scheduling or a cost increase on flying.

I wouldnt be surprised if some of ODU's women's sports spends as much as mens basketball on travel. Some of them play OOC games from coast to coast.

2014 is when the last school(Western) joined CUSA, most of the others between 2012 and 2013

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.org...s/0f07890c

(07-15-2019 03:48 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  The "small regional league" is the ticket to G5

FIFY. We are already there. May as well set ourselves up for success

(07-15-2019 07:53 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 03:48 PM)goliath74 Wrote:  The "small regional league" is the ticket to FCS

FIFY. We are already there. May as well set ourselves up for success

Well, not quite.

(07-15-2019 03:28 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 02:32 PM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:18 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  the smartest thing to do

The smartest thing to do would be to form a small, regional league that lets the others figure it out themselves and maybe, if we're lucky, those left out will drop back to D2 when it becomes too expensive to sustain, which will improve recruiting for that small league and increase revenue at the end of the day.

this is the same failed thinking repeating itself

the idea of the "small regional league" is a failure....that is just a concept of hey lets all get together and offer basically the same thing as the other and pretend someone will think there is a difference

when you get where you are having pairs of schools in the same states as the basis of a conference you are going to have issues

the issue is much worse when you get to 3 or horribly 4 schools in the same state, but a conference of something like FIU, FAU, Troy, USA, ULM, Louisiana, stAte, USM looks OK on the outside, but those pairs of schools are going to end up struggling and pulling the conference down

it is a much smarter idea to split those pairs and let them play in the OOC

plus the left outs from some of that group would not be remotely considering dropping down.....most would try the stupid "lets get every school in the state in here" and head to failure, but the ones that ended up in the mismatched hodge podge conference would eventually have a much better chance to sustain success IMO

because they would offer recruits something different like TCU did in the MWC and UTEP did in the WAC (and even UTSA and Texas State in the WAC and LaTech in the WAC)

and there is no chance that most of those programs are not going to play other programs in their region or state in the OOC and eventually the "left out" one in the state will differentiate themselves and it will be an issue for the ones grouped together.....that is just how history shows it happens time and again

smaller is better, but you need to spread out some and differentiate not group to end up trying to sell basically the same thing to recruits

So you believe a conference of

Southern Miss
La Tech
Ark State
UNT
MTSU
ULL
UAB
WKU
Marshall

would condemn those schools to FCS? I'm not talking getting as compact as possible, I'm saying to shrink the group to a place where travel is far more reasonable and rivalries can actually develop.


This conference would leave many schools in no man's land, where they'd either have to join some new far flung league they can't afford to be in or drop to FCS. And while it may seem harsh, that just becomes a win-win for those in the league.

(07-16-2019 08:40 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 03:28 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 02:32 PM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:18 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  the smartest thing to do

The smartest thing to do would be to form a small, regional league that lets the others figure it out themselves and maybe, if we're lucky, those left out will drop back to D2 when it becomes too expensive to sustain, which will improve recruiting for that small league and increase revenue at the end of the day.

this is the same failed thinking repeating itself

the idea of the "small regional league" is a failure....that is just a concept of hey lets all get together and offer basically the same thing as the other and pretend someone will think there is a difference

when you get where you are having pairs of schools in the same states as the basis of a conference you are going to have issues

the issue is much worse when you get to 3 or horribly 4 schools in the same state, but a conference of something like FIU, FAU, Troy, USA, ULM, Louisiana, stAte, USM looks OK on the outside, but those pairs of schools are going to end up struggling and pulling the conference down

it is a much smarter idea to split those pairs and let them play in the OOC

plus the left outs from some of that group would not be remotely considering dropping down.....most would try the stupid "lets get every school in the state in here" and head to failure, but the ones that ended up in the mismatched hodge podge conference would eventually have a much better chance to sustain success IMO

because they would offer recruits something different like TCU did in the MWC and UTEP did in the WAC (and even UTSA and Texas State in the WAC and LaTech in the WAC)

and there is no chance that most of those programs are not going to play other programs in their region or state in the OOC and eventually the "left out" one in the state will differentiate themselves and it will be an issue for the ones grouped together.....that is just how history shows it happens time and again

smaller is better, but you need to spread out some and differentiate not group to end up trying to sell basically the same thing to recruits

So you believe a conference of

Southern Miss
La Tech
Ark State
UNT
MTSU
ULL
UAB
WKU
Marshall

would condemn those schools to FCS? I'm not talking getting as compact as possible, I'm saying to shrink the group to a place where travel is far more reasonable and rivalries can actually develop.


This conference would leave many schools in no man's land, where they'd either have to join some new far flung league they can't afford to be in or drop to FCS. And while it may seem harsh, that just becomes a win-win for those in the league.

Wasn't there like 138 teams in FBS in the 1980s? And a bunch of them were independents.

There are already 4-5 independents out there, and they are slowly showing that going independent may not be the program killer most of us think it is.

(07-16-2019 10:41 AM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 08:40 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 03:28 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 02:32 PM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:18 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  the smartest thing to do

The smartest thing to do would be to form a small, regional league that lets the others figure it out themselves and maybe, if we're lucky, those left out will drop back to D2 when it becomes too expensive to sustain, which will improve recruiting for that small league and increase revenue at the end of the day.

this is the same failed thinking repeating itself

the idea of the "small regional league" is a failure....that is just a concept of hey lets all get together and offer basically the same thing as the other and pretend someone will think there is a difference

when you get where you are having pairs of schools in the same states as the basis of a conference you are going to have issues

the issue is much worse when you get to 3 or horribly 4 schools in the same state, but a conference of something like FIU, FAU, Troy, USA, ULM, Louisiana, stAte, USM looks OK on the outside, but those pairs of schools are going to end up struggling and pulling the conference down

it is a much smarter idea to split those pairs and let them play in the OOC

plus the left outs from some of that group would not be remotely considering dropping down.....most would try the stupid "lets get every school in the state in here" and head to failure, but the ones that ended up in the mismatched hodge podge conference would eventually have a much better chance to sustain success IMO

because they would offer recruits something different like TCU did in the MWC and UTEP did in the WAC (and even UTSA and Texas State in the WAC and LaTech in the WAC)

and there is no chance that most of those programs are not going to play other programs in their region or state in the OOC and eventually the "left out" one in the state will differentiate themselves and it will be an issue for the ones grouped together.....that is just how history shows it happens time and again

smaller is better, but you need to spread out some and differentiate not group to end up trying to sell basically the same thing to recruits

So you believe a conference of

Southern Miss
La Tech
Ark State
UNT
MTSU
ULL
UAB
WKU
Marshall

would condemn those schools to FCS? I'm not talking getting as compact as possible, I'm saying to shrink the group to a place where travel is far more reasonable and rivalries can actually develop.


This conference would leave many schools in no man's land, where they'd either have to join some new far flung league they can't afford to be in or drop to FCS. And while it may seem harsh, that just becomes a win-win for those in the league.

Wasn't there like 138 teams in FBS in the 1980s? And a bunch of them were independents.

There are already 4-5 independents out there, and they are slowly showing that going independent may not be the program killer most of us think it is.

The 1980s didn't have the same rules and bowl access that exists today, big difference. Independent is a long term death roll for most G5 programs. You lose bowl tie ins (unless you are BYU or Army or ND), and you have absolutely no shot at the access bowl. Remember, to make that bowl, you have to be a conference champion, or ND lol they did not leave language in there for independents.

(07-14-2019 02:46 PM)Reggie Favre Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 01:51 PM)SethManKA1 Wrote:  I know the responses but I wish USM would go Indy. I would be open to forming a new conference. I read the article and it didn’t really reveal much to me.

Ive been preaching this on every message board for at least 5 years. People have been shouting me down, laughing and calling me an idiot for it. But folks are starting to finally come around to it. This conference does nothing for USM. Doesn't do much for anyone. Hard to understand why wku, charlotte, old domion and others think its so great but i guess its bc they never had any better to know the difference.

The fans of the schools with the lowest athletic budget and two championships in football in C-USA in the last 20 years is always complaining the most.
The undeserved self-worth is unbelievable. It should be studied.

(07-16-2019 04:56 PM)owlcountry40 Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 02:46 PM)Reggie Favre Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 01:51 PM)SethManKA1 Wrote:  I know the responses but I wish USM would go Indy. I would be open to forming a new conference. I read the article and it didn’t really reveal much to me.

Ive been preaching this on every message board for at least 5 years. People have been shouting me down, laughing and calling me an idiot for it. But folks are starting to finally come around to it. This conference does nothing for USM. Doesn't do much for anyone. Hard to understand why wku, charlotte, old domion and others think its so great but i guess its bc they never had any better to know the difference.

The fans of the schools with the lowest athletic budget and two championships in football in C-USA in the last 20 years is always complaining the most.
The undeserved self-worth is unbelievable. It should be studied.

Actually it is 3 in last 20 years and 5 in 23 years. But yeah, that ain’t impressive.

I used to go on the forum more, but it got so old with a good portion of C-USA fans from the old guard just constantly complaining about the league and blaming newer schools.

I see a lot of potential in C-USA to be a fun competitive conference. Schools like ODU, UNT, UNCC, FAU, and FIU are making efforts to raise their athletic departments with investments.

USM has been playing football for over 100 years. What has USM done in the past 20 years to help C-USA?

(07-16-2019 08:32 PM)owlcountry40 Wrote:  I used to go on the forum more, but it got so old with a good portion of C-USA fans from the old guard just constantly complaining about the league and blaming newer schools.

I see a lot of potential in C-USA to be a fun competitive conference. Schools like ODU, UNT, UNCC, FAU, and FIU are making efforts to raise their athletic departments with investments.

USM has been playing football for over 100 years. What has USM done in the past 20 years to help C-USA?

We allowed FAU to join. Feel free to disappear again.

(07-16-2019 08:32 PM)owlcountry40 Wrote:  I used to go on the forum more, but it got so old with a good portion of C-USA fans from the old guard just constantly complaining about the league and blaming newer schools.

I see a lot of potential in C-USA to be a fun competitive conference. Schools like ODU, UNT, UNCC, FAU, and FIU are making efforts to raise their athletic departments with investments.

USM has been playing football for over 100 years. What has USM done in the past 20 years to help C-USA?

Spot on. Let them keep pining and lobbying for the AAC.

(07-16-2019 09:46 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(07-16-2019 08:32 PM)owlcountry40 Wrote:  I used to go on the forum more, but it got so old with a good portion of C-USA fans from the old guard just constantly complaining about the league and blaming newer schools.

I see a lot of potential in C-USA to be a fun competitive conference. Schools like ODU, UNT, UNCC, FAU, and FIU are making efforts to raise their athletic departments with investments.

USM has been playing football for over 100 years. What has USM done in the past 20 years to help C-USA?

Spot on. Let them keep pining and lobbying for the AAC.

I'm no USM fan, but I think USM has done a lot for CUSA in the past 20 years.

Football has been a consistent winner aside from the Johnson era. A lot of bowl appearances. Many people remember their run in 2011 when they were ranked #24 and proceeded to demolish #7 Houston, and Case Keenum, in the CUSA Championship on TV. It totally killed Houston's chances at a BCS bowl bid. That made a lot noise in the media, and still to this day I remember how shocking that was. USM finished ranked #19. That brought a lot of notoriety for CUSA.

On top of that, their baseball program has had 14 NCAA bids, 1 College World Series appearance, and has been ranked countless times in the last 20 years.

Some of you that are saying "let USM go elsewhere, they haven't done anything lately".... I think you refuse to realize how valuable USM is as a program. Most people with knowledge of college football would probably agree that if USM were to leave CUSA tomorrow, the perception of CUSA would take a pretty good hit. It's one of the most tradition-rich programs you have.

Just an outsiders perspective...

When the big 12 came calling? USM said no thank you, we’ll not be a part of that charade. When the Big East came a plucking? USM said heck no, we’ll stay right here in the good old CUSA and finish what we started, thank you very much.

USM has been tried and true and I think would never have it any other way.

THAT’S what USM has done for the CUSA. It’s called loyalty. Thank you Golden Eagles!


(Now if you’ll excuse me I have a call coming in from Aresco, I’d better take this one)

(07-16-2019 08:40 AM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 03:28 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  

(07-15-2019 02:32 PM)EagNBran Wrote:  

(07-14-2019 08:18 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  the smartest thing to do

The smartest thing to do would be to form a small, regional league that lets the others figure it out themselves and maybe, if we're lucky, those left out will drop back to D2 when it becomes too expensive to sustain, which will improve recruiting for that small league and increase revenue at the end of the day.

this is the same failed thinking repeating itself

the idea of the "small regional league" is a failure....that is just a concept of hey lets all get together and offer basically the same thing as the other and pretend someone will think there is a difference

when you get where you are having pairs of schools in the same states as the basis of a conference you are going to have issues

the issue is much worse when you get to 3 or horribly 4 schools in the same state, but a conference of something like FIU, FAU, Troy, USA, ULM, Louisiana, stAte, USM looks OK on the outside, but those pairs of schools are going to end up struggling and pulling the conference down

it is a much smarter idea to split those pairs and let them play in the OOC

plus the left outs from some of that group would not be remotely considering dropping down.....most would try the stupid "lets get every school in the state in here" and head to failure, but the ones that ended up in the mismatched hodge podge conference would eventually have a much better chance to sustain success IMO

because they would offer recruits something different like TCU did in the MWC and UTEP did in the WAC (and even UTSA and Texas State in the WAC and LaTech in the WAC)

and there is no chance that most of those programs are not going to play other programs in their region or state in the OOC and eventually the "left out" one in the state will differentiate themselves and it will be an issue for the ones grouped together.....that is just how history shows it happens time and again

smaller is better, but you need to spread out some and differentiate not group to end up trying to sell basically the same thing to recruits

So you believe a conference of

Southern Miss
La Tech
Ark State
UNT
MTSU
ULL
UAB
WKU
Marshall

would condemn those schools to FCS? I'm not talking getting as compact as possible, I'm saying to shrink the group to a place where travel is far more reasonable and rivalries can actually develop.


This conference would leave many schools in no man's land, where they'd either have to join some new far flung league they can't afford to be in or drop to FCS. And while it may seem harsh, that just becomes a win-win for those in the league.

1. I did not make the D1-AA comment

2. that conference you showed would not, but that is not an example of what people usually give when they talk about "small regional"

3. when people talk about these Sunbelt and CUSA teams realigning they usually talk about some crap like this

Rice
UTSA
UTEP
Texas State
north Texas state
Louisiana
La Tech
ULM

and yes that conference would fail so fast your head would spin it would be a total disaster

4. the conference you proposed was much more like the 3 conferences of 8 teams that I proposed that had many of the teams in the same state spread out and NOT in the same conference

5. the idea is that you can have regional conferences, you can have smaller conferences, but that does not mean you need to go to the extreme and cram every team from the same states into one conference

having Louisiana, La Tech, and ULM in the same conference is a disaster

having 3, 4, or 5 Texas teams in the same conference is a disaster

I think it would be better for FAU, FIU, Troy, USA and similar pairs to NOT be in the same conference especially if you have conferences of 8 playing 7 conference games and 5 OOC games because they can still play in the OOC

it gives those teams in those states a chance to still win a conference even in they lose to an in state team or even 2 in state teams if they do so in the OOC

it gives those teams a chance to offer recruits something different

6. look at Florida and FSU or Florida and Miami those are big games partially because they are OOC and those teams can come to that game with good records and even be the best team in their conference

UGA and GT

Clemson and SC

and while there are pairs of teams in many conferences that is not as bad as getting 3 or more in the same conference plus as a P5 team it is easier to have the resources to put out a winning product and or to have body bag games AT HOME and get enough wins to go to a bowl game and sell something to recruits (even if the fans want more)

as a G5 conference you have to stop trying to do what the P5 does and pretend it will just work

even the Big 12 would benefit from playing fewer conference games as a P5 (playing 7 in divisions of 5 with a fixed cross over game) because they have only 10 teams, play a CCG, and have 4 Texas teams

it hurts the PAC 12 to have 4 California schools especially with 9 conference games

it hurts the ACC to have 4 North Carolina teams even with 8 conference games

but the TV money makes it where the PAC 12 clings to those 9 games same with the Big 12

it HELPS the SEC SEC SEC that they have limited it to 2 teams at most in the same state and most are 1 in the same state and they play 8 conference games.....that is where they get the "strength" argument because they get wins in the OOC (even against bad teams) which is better than a "good loss" because there is no such thing as a "good loss" that is better than a bad win

with the G5 that TV money is not there to try and hold you to stupid ideas and the need is there to have to win to attract your own fans

the idea of other teams from your state filling your stands is a stupid one....the idea that 4 or 5 teams in the same state that all play each other will somehow be meaningful is a stupid one.....because for any one or two of those teams to be good the others have to take a bunch of losses to other teams in their same state and thus they never win the conference or the division and they end up sucking for a LONG time

if you spread some of that out it does not tear itself down.....just look at the conferences with 4 or 5 teams in the same state and compare those teams performance to others in the conference and others in the same state not in that conference and the drag on those teams is very clear over a long history

I do not think that UCF and USF playing in the same conference is pulling that conference down. Same with FSU and Miami.