(07-09-2020 07:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 07:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:14 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Notre Dame isn't joining a conference. They've already proven they can make the CFP as an independent and if the playoff ever expands to 8 it's as likely as not that the rumored "G5 auto-bid" will be written to include the independents.

Why would it have to include the independents? They are just as eligible for the at large spots in an 8 team playoff as everybody else.

Your question is a good one, and it highlights the problem with giving anyone an auto-bid in an 8-team playoff: Any playoff should be formally neutral among all teams, but an auto-bid regime gives some teams, namely the P5 teams, more paths to getting in. An 8-team playoff with say auto-bids for the P5 conferences and 3 at-large gives P5 schools two ways to make the playoffs - win your conference or get in as an at-large - while giving any school not in a P5 just one way to get in, as an at-large. And that's structurally unequal, thus bad.

Best therefore to have no auto-bids for anyone.

How about auto-bids for the P5 if their champ finishes in the top eight?

I think we both can agree on that.

And to add to that requirement, an autobid to the best G5 if it meets certain requirements (which could be much stricter than those of the P5).

(07-09-2020 08:28 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 07:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 07:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:14 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Notre Dame isn't joining a conference. They've already proven they can make the CFP as an independent and if the playoff ever expands to 8 it's as likely as not that the rumored "G5 auto-bid" will be written to include the independents.

Why would it have to include the independents? They are just as eligible for the at large spots in an 8 team playoff as everybody else.

Your question is a good one, and it highlights the problem with giving anyone an auto-bid in an 8-team playoff: Any playoff should be formally neutral among all teams, but an auto-bid regime gives some teams, namely the P5 teams, more paths to getting in. An 8-team playoff with say auto-bids for the P5 conferences and 3 at-large gives P5 schools two ways to make the playoffs - win your conference or get in as an at-large - while giving any school not in a P5 just one way to get in, as an at-large. And that's structurally unequal, thus bad.

Best therefore to have no auto-bids for anyone.

How about auto-bids for the P5 if their champ finishes in the top eight?

I think we both can agree on that.

And to add to that requirement, an autobid to the best G5 if it meets certain requirements (which could be much stricter than those of the P5).

Oh Monsieur Dazzle, perhaps my sarcasm is lost on you.

How are the ladies treating you these days? Any glorious triumphs?

(07-09-2020 11:31 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Only 36 UConn players? You mean half their team can actually play? That's probably an improvement by UConn's standards!

Hence the bonus, which was actually whether the whole first string could play ... after some rearrangement after the test, that performance standard was met and the check cut.

Would have been a second performance check if they could have sorted out an entire second string that could pass the test.
__________________

(07-09-2020 07:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Your question is a good one, and it highlights the problem with giving anyone an auto-bid in an 8-team playoff: Any playoff should be formally neutral among all teams, but an auto-bid regime gives some teams, namely the P5 teams, more paths to getting in. ...

And if the Go5 argue that they should have their Access Bowl race moved to the CFP in order to have the formal equity of two paths to the CFP, the Media Partners can argue that could be a single slot for the Highest Ranked of Go5 Champions or Independents and then everyone has two paths.

(07-09-2020 07:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 07:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:14 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Notre Dame isn't joining a conference. They've already proven they can make the CFP as an independent and if the playoff ever expands to 8 it's as likely as not that the rumored "G5 auto-bid" will be written to include the independents.

Why would it have to include the independents? They are just as eligible for the at large spots in an 8 team playoff as everybody else.

Your question is a good one, and it highlights the problem with giving anyone an auto-bid in an 8-team playoff: Any playoff should be formally neutral among all teams, but an auto-bid regime gives some teams, namely the P5 teams, more paths to getting in. An 8-team playoff with say auto-bids for the P5 conferences and 3 at-large gives P5 schools two ways to make the playoffs - win your conference or get in as an at-large - while giving any school not in a P5 just one way to get in, as an at-large. And that's structurally unequal, thus bad.

Best therefore to have no auto-bids for anyone.

How about auto-bids for the P5 if their champ finishes in the top eight?

I think we both can agree on that.

Then what if a G5 champ finishes in the top 8? They're not guaranteed a bid? The minute you say it's only for P5's you are again making it unfair, especially if the Big 12 loses Oklahoma and/or Texas.

(07-09-2020 09:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 08:28 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 07:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 07:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Why would it have to include the independents? They are just as eligible for the at large spots in an 8 team playoff as everybody else.

Your question is a good one, and it highlights the problem with giving anyone an auto-bid in an 8-team playoff: Any playoff should be formally neutral among all teams, but an auto-bid regime gives some teams, namely the P5 teams, more paths to getting in. An 8-team playoff with say auto-bids for the P5 conferences and 3 at-large gives P5 schools two ways to make the playoffs - win your conference or get in as an at-large - while giving any school not in a P5 just one way to get in, as an at-large. And that's structurally unequal, thus bad.

Best therefore to have no auto-bids for anyone.

How about auto-bids for the P5 if their champ finishes in the top eight?

I think we both can agree on that.

And to add to that requirement, an autobid to the best G5 if it meets certain requirements (which could be much stricter than those of the P5).

Oh Monsieur Dazzle, perhaps my sarcasm is lost on you.

How are the ladies treating you these days? Any glorious triumphs?

Dazzy is still penning limericks (some rather raw and nasty) for the office lasses and, fortunately, not being reported to HR.

Thanks for asking, esayem.

(07-09-2020 07:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 07:05 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:18 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 12:14 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Notre Dame isn't joining a conference. They've already proven they can make the CFP as an independent and if the playoff ever expands to 8 it's as likely as not that the rumored "G5 auto-bid" will be written to include the independents.

Why would it have to include the independents? They are just as eligible for the at large spots in an 8 team playoff as everybody else.

Your question is a good one, and it highlights the problem with giving anyone an auto-bid in an 8-team playoff: Any playoff should be formally neutral among all teams, but an auto-bid regime gives some teams, namely the P5 teams, more paths to getting in. An 8-team playoff with say auto-bids for the P5 conferences and 3 at-large gives P5 schools two ways to make the playoffs - win your conference or get in as an at-large - while giving any school not in a P5 just one way to get in, as an at-large. And that's structurally unequal, thus bad.

Best therefore to have no auto-bids for anyone.

How about auto-bids for the P5 if their champ finishes in the top eight?

I think we both can agree on that.

We sure can.

Best teams in the playoff regardless of conference affiliation would be the best way to go.

(07-10-2020 09:30 AM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  Best teams in the playoff regardless of conference affiliation would be the best way to go.

But he who plays the piper will call the tune. Guaranteeing that the P5 CCG's are play in games is good for the media companies that have those games, and there are the same media companies in the CFP negotiations.

If there is an 8-team playoff later this decade, my preference and prediction is he same as what has been kicked around the most: auto bids for the P5 champions, a bid for the highest ranked G5 champion, and two at-larges.

(07-10-2020 10:15 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  If there is an 8-team playoff later this decade, my preference and prediction is he same as what has been kicked around the most: auto bids for the P5 champions, a bid for the highest ranked G5 champion, and two at-larges.

I would be fine with this IF there are some basic minimal requirements for the five P5 auto bids and some rather strict requirements for the one G5 autobid.

(07-10-2020 09:30 AM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  Best teams in the playoff regardless of conference affiliation would be the best way to go.

That will always be subjective.

A 13-0 USA football team would never get in over a 11-2 team from the P5

(07-10-2020 11:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 09:30 AM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  Best teams in the playoff regardless of conference affiliation would be the best way to go.

That will always be subjective.

A 13-0 USA football team would never get in over a 11-2 team from the P5

but SHOULD it get in (assuming some modicum of schedule strength)? Winning has to count for something, or else... why even play the games? Just pick the playoff teams right now - you already know how the "eye test" looks without a single play.

Polls are bad. Subjective is bad. Winning on the field is good. Autobids for champs are good.

(07-10-2020 12:12 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 11:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 09:30 AM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  Best teams in the playoff regardless of conference affiliation would be the best way to go.

That will always be subjective.

A 13-0 USA football team would never get in over a 11-2 team from the P5

but SHOULD it get in (assuming some modicum of schedule strength)? Winning has to count for something, or else... why even play the games? Just pick the playoff teams right now - you already know how the "eye test" looks without a single play.

Polls are bad. Subjective is bad. Winning on the field is good. Autobids for champs are good.

Autobids make sense if schedules are totally created by a central body independent of the teams, like in the pro leagues. But in college football, teams create their own OOC schedules so going undefeated just isn't the same kind of achievement. It's kind of like letting someone set up their own pins and then knock them down and then cheer for themselves.

Now teams do not control their conference schedules, but then again autobids for conference champs doesn't make sense because then what happens if a team loses a bunch of OOC games? You can have a conference champ at 8-4 get in over a non-champ at 11-1 or something, ridiculous. Plus, with 8 teams, you can't give autobids to everyone, so some conferences will get bids and others won't, just, well, because they have more power to get their way.

So given the imperfections of the college football world, in an 8-team format I prefer a subjective CFP selection type process for all the spots, a process that can balance all the factors in play. Not perfect by any means, but better than rigid criteria like autobids.

(07-10-2020 01:15 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 12:12 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 11:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 09:30 AM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  Best teams in the playoff regardless of conference affiliation would be the best way to go.

That will always be subjective.

A 13-0 USA football team would never get in over a 11-2 team from the P5

but SHOULD it get in (assuming some modicum of schedule strength)? Winning has to count for something, or else... why even play the games? Just pick the playoff teams right now - you already know how the "eye test" looks without a single play.

Polls are bad. Subjective is bad. Winning on the field is good. Autobids for champs are good.

Autobids make sense if schedules are totally created by a central body independent of the teams, like in the pro leagues. But in college football, teams create their own OOC schedules so going undefeated just isn't the same kind of achievement. It's kind of like letting someone set up their own pins and then knock them down and then cheer for themselves.

Now teams do not control their conference schedules, but then again autobids for conference champs doesn't make sense because then what happens if a team loses a bunch of OOC games? You can have a conference champ at 8-4 get in over a non-champ at 11-1 or something, ridiculous. Plus, with 8 teams, you can't give autobids to everyone, so some conferences will get bids and others won't, just, well, because they have more power to get their way.

So given the imperfections of the college football world, in an 8-team format I prefer a subjective CFP selection type process for all the spots, a process that can balance all the factors in play. Not perfect by any means, but better than rigid criteria like autobids.

Which is why I've been an advocate of autobids for conference champs PLUS a few at-large bids for teams with really good non-conference resumes. You seem fixated on worrying about letting an undeserving conference champ into the playoffs. I say "so what" - if they are undeserving, they'll lose and that's that. I'm far, FAR more concerned about omitting a deserving conference champ (which, IMO, has already happened many times). Having autobids fixes that problem once and for all.

Whispers heard from Storz:

UConn has cancelled all their games this Fall, they have order Washington Generals Football Uniforms, and will be on call for any team needing a short notice opponent this Fall.

(07-11-2020 09:23 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Whispers heard from Storz:

UConn has cancelled all their games this Fall, they have order Washington Generals Football Uniforms, and will be on call for any team needing a short notice opponent this Fall.

I'd be upset too if a former rival had more national championships than I had conference championships in the last 20 years.

(07-11-2020 07:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  You seem fixated on worrying about letting an undeserving conference champ into the playoffs. I say "so what" - if they are undeserving, they'll lose and that's that.

This is an important point. There is absolutely no system that will invariably pick the best four out of four, or the best eight out of eight.

Part of the driving force for P5 autobids is that having the CCG being a bona fide play in game as opposed to a "well, probably a play in game for this one, maybe a play in game for that one, one of these two over here are probably in with a win but the other one might not be" bolsters the media value of the CCG's.

But on the one hand, that makes it less of a beauty contest and more of a prize won on the field.

And on the other hand, a 5-1-2 system of some sort, however the one is set up, is still going to pick up the best four teams in the country, and let them play to decide which of them is the best.

I obviously apologize for following up on the national championship sidetrack from slagging off on either UConn or the AAC, but I don't have any particular dislike for either, so can't generate any enthusiasm for that pursuit.

(07-09-2020 11:34 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 10:57 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The ACC will add a FB school next unless Notre Dame joins and dictates #16 as UConn or Navy (FB only).

I think besides ND, the ACC would look at WVU, Cincy or UCF. I don't think Temple brings enough.

I have heard that the ACC will not expand unless ND joins. If ND joins the top two schools on the hsort list will be UCONN & Cincy. I have not heard anything about WVU.

Well if they were on any short list they would have gotten word and not gone back to the Big East.

They would take WVU first and foremost.

(07-09-2020 11:11 AM)Bogg Wrote:  

(07-09-2020 10:57 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  The ACC will add a FB school next unless Notre Dame joins and dictates #16 as UConn or Navy (FB only).

I think besides ND, the ACC would look at WVU, Cincy or UCF. I don't think Temple brings enough.

Don't see UCF ever getting a look as long as Florida State and Miami are in the conference. It's pretty much Big 12 or bust for them.

Even without football for two years (or intraconference only), ND should be fine as independent. Let's just say, exceptions will be made. This is more of a short squeeze on ND to get them to divest their brand and buy into a competitor brand at higher $'s. They've been sellers of the B1G and buyers of the PAC and ACC, but they really want a small piece of all three. Now they are getting squeezed by all three. We'll see if they cave in over the next 5-6 years.

It won't be the ACC because I can't see ND locking into football match ups with Cuse, BC and Pitt annually. And there isn't a cultural fit there with FSU, Clemson, Va Tech, and Miami. Makes no sense to be there long term.

The ACC will move on with UC as 15 unless the Big 12 scoops them first. I would offer WVU and UC if WVU can get $$$ for a buyout to get out of the Big 12. While it would be a major hit in the near term financially, it's the only viable solution long term. This also cuts the Big 12 out of the greater valley area entirely. In this scenario, names like UCF/USF gain more traction in the interim, while Memphis would be in play with a 10 team model. But honestly a Big 9 model with a CC game is just as viable.

How is it not a win win for anyone besides the AAC? The P5 basically stands clear cut from the G5. AAC never recovers and becomes another Conference USA. The play at that point becomes FAU and/or FIU, Marshall, and Old Dominion.

(07-09-2020 07:54 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Dateline Storrs: 36 University of Connecticut football players displayed a total lack of football ability at practice today. As a result coach Edsall received a $5000 bonus. Some of the players have decided to reclassify as high schoolers.

Apologies for my impertinence.

H/T: Joke Stolen from CA Monk @ http://www.syracusefan.com

I needed a good laugh. Thanks.