CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt are about to learn a valuable lesson on how not to be so reliant on big pay days from P5 schools to help sustain their operating cost. I think the AAC and MWC while affected by what the P5 does is not has hampered as the other 3 conferences are (but I could be wrong).

Eventually, these 3 conferences are going to have to figure out another way to generate income or their shelf life could be expiring sooner rather than later.

Body bag games are a small fraction of the athletic budget. Most G5 don’t depend on that for operations. Same with the TV $$. Sure it helps but a $2 million payday against a $30+ million dollar budget is hardly anything.
It’s more of being visible playing a P5 school than anything.

(07-10-2020 10:42 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt are about to learn a valuable lesson on how not to be so reliant on big pay days from P5 schools to help sustain their operating cost. I think the AAC and MWC while affected by what the P5 does is not has hampered as the other 3 conferences are (but I could be wrong).

Eventually, these 3 conferences are going to have to figure out another way to generate income or their shelf life could be expiring sooner rather than later.

Most of the MWC play these games.

We are in the beginning stage of the culling of higher ed and college athletics. There’s a lot of us in D1 who are in major trouble, ECU included.

(07-10-2020 10:42 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt are about to learn a valuable lesson on how not to be so reliant on big pay days from P5 schools to help sustain their operating cost. I think the AAC and MWC while affected by what the P5 does is not has hampered as the other 3 conferences are (but I could be wrong).

Eventually, these 3 conferences are going to have to figure out another way to generate income or their shelf life could be expiring sooner rather than later.

Is there anyone who gets even 20% that way? Handful I've looked at its like 5% and less.

(07-10-2020 11:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Body bag games are a small fraction of the athletic budget. Most G5 don’t depend on that for operations. Same with the TV $$. Sure it helps but a $2 million payday against a $30+ million dollar budget is hardly anything.
It’s more of being visible playing a P5 school than anything.

Uh 2 million is almost 10% of your budget, with those numbers. And the 30 million is generally the cost of the whole athletic department, not just football. Losing out on the paydays is a big deal for some schools, especially when they already rely on millions in student fees.

(07-10-2020 11:17 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 11:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Body bag games are a small fraction of the athletic budget. Most G5 don’t depend on that for operations. Same with the TV $$. Sure it helps but a $2 million payday against a $30+ million dollar budget is hardly anything.
It’s more of being visible playing a P5 school than anything.

Uh 2 million is almost 10% of your budget, with those numbers. And the 30 million is generally the cost of the whole athletic department, not just football. Losing out on the paydays is a big deal for some schools, especially when they already rely on millions in student fees.

I'll tell you who this is going to destroy...SWAC, MEAC, etc schools. Those paydays are a huge part of their already shoestring budgets.

If the P5 want to ONLY play P5 in most sports-- here is their chance. Enjoy fewer home games and fewer wins. There is a symbiotic relationship between G5 and P5 that few are discussing.

(07-10-2020 11:31 AM)SouthernBoiNOLA Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 11:17 AM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 11:12 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Body bag games are a small fraction of the athletic budget. Most G5 don’t depend on that for operations. Same with the TV $$. Sure it helps but a $2 million payday against a $30+ million dollar budget is hardly anything.
It’s more of being visible playing a P5 school than anything.

Uh 2 million is almost 10% of your budget, with those numbers. And the 30 million is generally the cost of the whole athletic department, not just football. Losing out on the paydays is a big deal for some schools, especially when they already rely on millions in student fees.

I'll tell you who this is going to destroy...SWAC, MEAC, etc schools. Those paydays are a huge part of their already shoestring budgets.

Nah, SWAC and MEAC schools are historically used to getting by on duct tape and bailing wire. They are used to having very few resources. A pay-game vs a P5 is pure gravy.

But for MAC and CUSA and SB schools, that is a major hit, because these schools are striving to have "big time" FBS budgets.

One thing for FCS schools is these games pay way less, W&M usually gets around 300-500k per game, while Sun Belt schools can get a million or more.

For some of the SWAC/MEAC schools their total budget is under 10 million, so 300k is still a lot, don't get me wrong, but it's not as big a hole as it could've otherwise been.

The body bag games are indeed significant. You can trim 10-20% of your budget if you like, but that's not going to be fun. People either lose jobs or you do other cost savings like cutting sports.

Especially this year because no one is going to be selling a ton of tickets. Those leagues needed those paydays to supplement what they were already losing.

(07-10-2020 10:42 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt are about to learn a valuable lesson on how not to be so reliant on big pay days from P5 schools to help sustain their operating cost. I think the AAC and MWC while affected by what the P5 does is not has hampered as the other 3 conferences are (but I could be wrong).

Eventually, these 3 conferences are going to have to figure out another way to generate income or their shelf life could be expiring sooner rather than later.

So if we assume current conditions continue indefinitely but somehow none of the other sources of income are affected, then losing buy games will knock them out of FBS?

If we assume current conditions continue indefinitely, not being able to get the exposure playing sports that the Go5 Universities are paying $10m's for will be a lot bigger issue than missing out $1m-$4m in revenue from guarantees.

And if we assume current conditions don't continue indefinitely, why are buy games any bigger deal than anything else?

(07-10-2020 11:14 AM)Pir8inRichmond Wrote:  We are in the beginning stage of the culling of higher ed and college athletics. There’s a lot of us in D1 who are in major trouble, ECU included.

Without a doubt. I'll admit that I'm one who wants college football operations spotlighted and put on trial. The impact of COVID is going to have to force schools to be a little more open and honest about their operating costs, and football poses probably the hardest questions to address. While non-majors have to reconcile the body-bag games, on the majors side, this exposes the need for the number of home games they need. I'm reminded of the excuses the Big Ten put out that they "needed" seven home games. Maybe we'll see why.

I think the fashionable move to cut everything else but the sport is going to come back and hurt the schools that make it out the other side, and while I'm sure schools will "go there" and scapegoat Title IX where they can, the cost of football is what it is, no matter what level it's played.

(07-10-2020 11:14 AM)Pir8inRichmond Wrote:  We are in the beginning stage of the culling of higher ed and college athletics. There’s a lot of us in D1 who are in major trouble, ECU included.

I think ECU is safe. It is more about the schools that are struggling to get fans in the seats for football.

If I am a top MAC school like CMU, WMU, Northern Illinois, Ohio U. or Toledo? I will try and find a way out of dodge to get away from the Tuesday, Wednsday and Thursday night games for Friday nights and Saturday games by trying to get into conferences like C-USA or the AAC. Their attendance took a nose dive.

(07-11-2020 07:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 11:14 AM)Pir8inRichmond Wrote:  We are in the beginning stage of the culling of higher ed and college athletics. There’s a lot of us in D1 who are in major trouble, ECU included.

I think ECU is safe. It is more about the schools that are struggling to get fans in the seats for football.

If I am a top MAC school like CMU, WMU, Northern Illinois, Ohio U. or Toledo? I will try and find a way out of dodge to get away from the Tuesday, Wednsday and Thursday night games for Friday nights and Saturday games by trying to get into conferences like C-USA or the AAC. Their attendance took a nose dive.

Non-Saturday games raises a tough question about the sport. Like, why does college football have to be played on a Saturday? While one could say the MAC schools sold out on the fans for the ESPN contract and unique gig they have, there was a bit of a collective eye-roll when schools like Michigan and Ohio State said they wouldn't do non-Saturday games.

Are Saturday games any different than facemasks, names on the back of the jerseys, and helmet stickers? If everything else about the game can change, why can't the date games are played?

Those of us college basketball fans would love to know the answer to that one...

(07-10-2020 11:17 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 10:42 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt are about to learn a valuable lesson on how not to be so reliant on big pay days from P5 schools to help sustain their operating cost. I think the AAC and MWC while affected by what the P5 does is not has hampered as the other 3 conferences are (but I could be wrong).

Eventually, these 3 conferences are going to have to figure out another way to generate income or their shelf life could be expiring sooner rather than later.

Is there anyone who gets even 20% that way? Handful I've looked at its like 5% and less.

Yeah, it’s easy money and a boost that many rely on but not a major component. The biggest threat will be declining enrollment and decrease in state funding effecting the student fees and school funds transfers.

(07-10-2020 11:17 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Is there anyone who gets even 20% that way? Handful I've looked at its like 5% and less.

Doubt it. Kent State plays away in three buy games ... but then part of that finances an FCS buy game. Kent State would be the biggest, according to a USA Today article last year, and it wouldn't break 20%. Southern Miss and MTSU were tied for second last year.

It's a real significant part of Kent State's athletic department budget, but even for Kent State, the argument makes little sense. In an environment in which the P5 schools cannot play a regular schedule for three or more years, the Go5 schools are going to be facing a lot more urgent issues than lack of buy game revenue.

By contrast in an environment where things get back to normal, the buy game revenue is going to bounce back a lot quicker than the season ticket revenue.

(07-11-2020 07:49 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-11-2020 07:34 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 11:14 AM)Pir8inRichmond Wrote:  We are in the beginning stage of the culling of higher ed and college athletics. There’s a lot of us in D1 who are in major trouble, ECU included.

I think ECU is safe. It is more about the schools that are struggling to get fans in the seats for football.

If I am a top MAC school like CMU, WMU, Northern Illinois, Ohio U. or Toledo? I will try and find a way out of dodge to get away from the Tuesday, Wednsday and Thursday night games for Friday nights and Saturday games by trying to get into conferences like C-USA or the AAC. Their attendance took a nose dive.

Non-Saturday games raises a tough question about the sport. Like, why does college football have to be played on a Saturday? While one could say the MAC schools sold out on the fans for the ESPN contract and unique gig they have, there was a bit of a collective eye-roll when schools like Michigan and Ohio State said they wouldn't do non-Saturday games.

Are Saturday games any different than facemasks, names on the back of the jerseys, and helmet stickers? If everything else about the game can change, why can't the date games are played?

Those of us college basketball fans would love to know the answer to that one...

I think there has to be a balance. You want to maximize exposure while still making your games available to attend to as many of your fans as possible.

I'm okay with what the Sun Belt does. Teams typically have one midweek conference road game and one midweek conference home game. (That doesn't count, say, a Thursday or Friday night season opener against a non conference opponent, usually a P5 road game.) Exposure is provided, but at least in my school's case, there are still five Saturday home games per year.

C-USA and the MAC go to opposite extremes. C-USA has pretty much all Saturday games, but nothing on ESPN. Games are very hard to find, and the ones that can be found are in direct competition with P5 games on those Saturdays, while midweek games are often the only college football that night. Meanwhile, the MAC typically has all its teams spend the last four weeks of the season on TV midweek on ESPN networks, but to the detriment of their own fanbase. Attendance at those games is dreadful.

(07-11-2020 08:39 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  C-USA and the MAC go to opposite extremes. C-USA has pretty much all Saturday games, but nothing on ESPN. Games are very hard to find.......

Had to stop you right there. Games are not hard to find anymore. Either they are on some network or they aren't. You do not have to put a whole lot of effort to finding a CUSA, Sun Belt, or MAC game. That whole "it's hard to find a game" excuse jumped the shark a long time ago.

Now you may not like the network or the streaming service the game is being shown but the games are very accessible.

(07-10-2020 11:17 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(07-10-2020 10:42 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt are about to learn a valuable lesson on how not to be so reliant on big pay days from P5 schools to help sustain their operating cost. I think the AAC and MWC while affected by what the P5 does is not has hampered as the other 3 conferences are (but I could be wrong).

Eventually, these 3 conferences are going to have to figure out another way to generate income or their shelf life could be expiring sooner rather than later.

Is there anyone who gets even 20% that way? Handful I've looked at its like 5% and less.

Around 10% would be about as much as I could imagine—and that would only be possible if a ULM type 19-20 million budget was bringing in 2 million a year in body bag game income.