It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

These are the conferences that will be Division 1:
B1G (14) - Power 6
SEC (14) - Power 6
ACC (15) - Power 6
Pac-12 (12) - Power 6
Big 12 (10) - Power 6
Big East (11) - Power 6
AAC (11) - Mid-major
A-10 (14) - Mid-major
MWC (11) - Mid-major
WCC (10) - Mid-major
MVC (10) - Mid-major
Ivy League (8) - Low-major
C-USA (14) Low-major
MAC (12) Low-major
Sun Belt (12) Low-major
CAA (10) Low-major
Independents (12):
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
Stephen F. Austin
Army
Navy
Belmont
Murray State
Hawaii
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Santa Barbara
Liberty

Total number of schools making the cut: 200

The NCAA tournament would go back to 64 schools. The NIT would be only 16.

The NCAA would reduce the number of sports required to support to 4 for men and the corresponding number for women (probably 5 or 6).

Football would be split into FBS and FCS:
FBS-B1G, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12, ACC, AAC, MWC, Notre Dame, BYU, UConn, Army, Liberty
FCS-MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, New Mexico State, North Dakota State,
Stephen F. Austin, etc.

FBS would have an 8-team playoff

FCS would have a 16-team playoff

I would be in favor of something like this. IMO D1 should be about 250 schools or so

I am against this because it does not save money. It will not work. You need to bring up schools from the FCS like most of the Big Sky, CAA, A-Sun, MVFC, OVC, Fordham, Stony Brook, NC A&T, Florida A&M and the stronger basketball schools. Bring up the best of D2 and create 1A and 1AA for all sports.

This would be a good iteration of Division 1 (needs some tweaks like swapping out bottom half of CAA and swapping in GCU, DU, SDSU, FGCU & NKU but otherwise spot-on). I don’t see any split coming. It’s mid-July and so far COVID has yet to capture a D1 school.

(07-19-2020 10:40 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am against this because it does not save money. It will not work. You need to bring up schools from the FCS like most of the Big Sky, CAA, A-Sun, MVFC, OVC, Fordham, Stony Brook, NC A&T, Florida A&M and the stronger basketball schools. Bring up the best of D2 and create 1A and 1AA for all sports.

This has literally already happened and is our current D1 landscape. There really shouldnt be anore move ups at this point.

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

These are the conferences that will be Division 1:
B1G (14) - Power 6
SEC (14) - Power 6
ACC (15) - Power 6
Pac-12 (12) - Power 6
Big 12 (10) - Power 6
Big East (11) - Power 6
AAC (11) - Mid-major
A-10 (14) - Mid-major
MWC (11) - Mid-major
WCC (10) - Mid-major
MVC (10) - Mid-major
Ivy League (8) - Low-major
C-USA (14) Low-major
MAC (12) Low-major
Sun Belt (12) Low-major
CAA (10) Low-major
Independents (12):
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
Stephen F. Austin
Army
Navy
Belmont
Murray State
Hawaii
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Santa Barbara
Liberty

Total number of schools making the cut: 200

The NCAA tournament would go back to 64 schools. The NIT would be only 16.

The NCAA would reduce the number of sports required to support to 4 for men and the corresponding number for women (probably 5 or 6).

Football would be split into FBS and FCS:
FBS-B1G, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12, ACC, AAC, MWC, Notre Dame, BYU, UConn, Army, Liberty
FCS-MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, New Mexico State, North Dakota State,
Stephen F. Austin, etc.

FBS would have an 8-team playoff

FCS would have a 16-team playoff

Several schools you listed as independents are not indy in basketball and Olympic sports.

(07-19-2020 10:40 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am against this because it does not save money. It will not work. You need to bring up schools from the FCS like most of the Big Sky, CAA, A-Sun, MVFC, OVC, Fordham, Stony Brook, NC A&T, Florida A&M and the stronger basketball schools. Bring up the best of D2 and create 1A and 1AA for all sports.

Yes, moving schools from DII to DI and from FCS to FBS, which requires them to spend much more on scholarships, coach salaries, etc., only saves money for those schools.

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

These are the conferences that will be Division 1:
B1G (14) - Power 6
SEC (14) - Power 6
ACC (15) - Power 6
Pac-12 (12) - Power 6
Big 12 (10) - Power 6
Big East (11) - Power 6
AAC (11) - Mid-major
A-10 (14) - Mid-major
MWC (11) - Mid-major
WCC (10) - Mid-major
MVC (10) - Mid-major
Ivy League (8) - Low-major
C-USA (14) Low-major
MAC (12) Low-major
Sun Belt (12) Low-major
CAA (10) Low-major
Independents (12):
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
Stephen F. Austin
Army
Navy
Belmont
Murray State
Hawaii
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Santa Barbara
Liberty

Total number of schools making the cut: 200

The NCAA tournament would go back to 64 schools. The NIT would be only 16.

The NCAA would reduce the number of sports required to support to 4 for men and the corresponding number for women (probably 5 or 6).

Football would be split into FBS and FCS:
FBS-B1G, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12, ACC, AAC, MWC, Notre Dame, BYU, UConn, Army, Liberty
FCS-MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, New Mexico State, North Dakota State,
Stephen F. Austin, etc.

FBS would have an 8-team playoff

FCS would have a 16-team playoff

You lost me at "Power 6" and naming the Big East as one. The "Power 6" is a Football reference.

Leave it to a UConn fan to post this drival. Just stop please. We all miss sports but, there's no reason to go out of your way to embarass yourself.

(07-19-2020 11:59 AM)Mestophalies Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

These are the conferences that will be Division 1:
B1G (14) - Power 6
SEC (14) - Power 6
ACC (15) - Power 6
Pac-12 (12) - Power 6
Big 12 (10) - Power 6
Big East (11) - Power 6
AAC (11) - Mid-major
A-10 (14) - Mid-major
MWC (11) - Mid-major
WCC (10) - Mid-major
MVC (10) - Mid-major
Ivy League (8) - Low-major
C-USA (14) Low-major
MAC (12) Low-major
Sun Belt (12) Low-major
CAA (10) Low-major
Independents (12):
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
Stephen F. Austin
Army
Navy
Belmont
Murray State
Hawaii
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Santa Barbara
Liberty

Total number of schools making the cut: 200

The NCAA tournament would go back to 64 schools. The NIT would be only 16.

The NCAA would reduce the number of sports required to support to 4 for men and the corresponding number for women (probably 5 or 6).

Football would be split into FBS and FCS:
FBS-B1G, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12, ACC, AAC, MWC, Notre Dame, BYU, UConn, Army, Liberty
FCS-MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, New Mexico State, North Dakota State,
Stephen F. Austin, etc.

FBS would have an 8-team playoff

FCS would have a 16-team playoff

You lost me at "Power 6" and naming the Big East as one. The "Power 6" is a Football reference.

Leave it to a UConn fan to post this drival. Just stop please. We all miss sports but, there's no reason to go out of your way to embarass yourself.

Pretty sure this is only about hoops... at least... I hope to goodness it is.

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

These are the conferences that will be Division 1:
B1G (14) - Power 6
SEC (14) - Power 6
ACC (15) - Power 6
Pac-12 (12) - Power 6
Big 12 (10) - Power 6
Big East (11) - Power 6
AAC (11) - Mid-major
A-10 (14) - Mid-major
MWC (11) - Mid-major
WCC (10) - Mid-major
MVC (10) - Mid-major
Ivy League (8) - Low-major
C-USA (14) Low-major
MAC (12) Low-major
Sun Belt (12) Low-major
CAA (10) Low-major
Independents (12):
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
Stephen F. Austin
Army
Navy
Belmont
Murray State
Hawaii
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Santa Barbara
Liberty

Total number of schools making the cut: 200

The NCAA tournament would go back to 64 schools. The NIT would be only 16.

The NCAA would reduce the number of sports required to support to 4 for men and the corresponding number for women (probably 5 or 6).

Football would be split into FBS and FCS:
FBS-B1G, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12, ACC, AAC, MWC, Notre Dame, BYU, UConn, Army, Liberty
FCS-MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, New Mexico State, North Dakota State,
Stephen F. Austin, etc.

FBS would have an 8-team playoff

FCS would have a 16-team playoff

Other than the FBS playoffs, the proposed plan has been in place and was a bust.

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

The power conferences already receive the lion's share of the Football revenue pie. After all, the majority of football revenue is media contracts with individual P5 conferences, and they intrinsically receive 100% of that. Those are five pies, of different sizes, but each conference gets 100% of their pie.

The next big pie is the CFP / NY6 Bowl game money, and they get well over 5/6 of that.

Kicking any given number of teams out of Division 1 doesn't change that.

And the NCAA takes 70% of the NCAA Tourney money ... changing the membership of Division 1 is only going to change the Tourney money going to the Power conferences by a marginal amount.

If the P5 wants to take a much bigger slice of the pie, they need to breakaway from the NCAA, and take however many schools they need to take with them to have a "National College Basketball Championship" that eclipses the NCAA tournament and grabs the lion share of the revenue for themselves.

The proposal here is that the P5 should push through a controversial, wrenching change in pursuit of what amounts to pocket change for the P5 conferences. It's a non-starter.

There's nothing low-major about the MAC, it's a solid mid-major conference.

FIRE UP CHIPS! :)

If there is going to be a split I see it mostly on the FBS rule set.

That would require the BE to once again add football, probably by taking in AAC teams. A10 could start up a FB conference too with UMass, ECU, Marshall, ODU and 4 others that didn't make the cut for the Big East.

WCC would be in a tough spot. MWC could raid for Gonzaga and Pacific with Hawaii joining all sports. Big West would lose Hawaii to the MWC with the others probably pushed into DII.

MAC/CUSA/SBC could take in a few schools each. If Buffalo moved to the A10 conference that would create a spot for an MVC school in the MAC.

Move to all conferences having the same rules for the FB post season. Eight team playoff with any conference champion ranked #20 or higher getting a spot in a NYD game. Playoff money though still stacked in favor of the P5.

Permissible rules for scheduling DII opponents since there won't be as many DI's.

The new DI would have 11 conferences and about 170 or so teams which sounds right. Those conferences would act as a gatekeeper for new membership.

With 32 conferences out there right now its still too easy to get a call up to D1 when fragile leagues like the WAC, Summit and Atlantic Sun which are still only a member or 2 away from dissolution.

Let's just do away with divisions altogether, and eliminate the NCAA. Let the conferences make their own rules and determine their own champions. If the P5 conferences and their media partners don't want to play some other conferences, so what?

Let everybody have as much sport as they are willing to pay for.

(07-19-2020 10:31 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I would be in favor of something like this. IMO D1 should be about 250 schools or so

IMHO that is the high side... really should be under 200... hopefully closer to 150

(07-20-2020 12:20 PM)ken d Wrote:  Let's just do away with divisions altogether, and eliminate the NCAA. Let the conferences make their own rules and determine their own champions. If the P5 conferences and their media partners don't want to play some other conferences, so what?

Let everybody have as much sport as they are willing to pay for.

Fine by me. That will leave 30 - 40 football playing schools only that will look A LOT like NFL-lite. Because what will happen is the vast majority of schools that are already running persistent, annual budget deficits from their athletic departments will be dropping their sports the deficits will worsen.

I've seen you post this in other threads and it appears like you believe it's a free market style solution. Again, not sure if this is what you believe but I can say that college football is most definitely NOT a free market universe. IRL where industries exist where the barriers to entry are high, new companies can still freely participate or shut down. That's not the case for college football.

(07-19-2020 12:51 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 11:59 AM)Mestophalies Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

These are the conferences that will be Division 1:
B1G (14) - Power 6
SEC (14) - Power 6
ACC (15) - Power 6
Pac-12 (12) - Power 6
Big 12 (10) - Power 6
Big East (11) - Power 6
AAC (11) - Mid-major
A-10 (14) - Mid-major
MWC (11) - Mid-major
WCC (10) - Mid-major
MVC (10) - Mid-major
Ivy League (8) - Low-major
C-USA (14) Low-major
MAC (12) Low-major
Sun Belt (12) Low-major
CAA (10) Low-major
Independents (12):
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
Stephen F. Austin
Army
Navy
Belmont
Murray State
Hawaii
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Santa Barbara
Liberty

Total number of schools making the cut: 200

The NCAA tournament would go back to 64 schools. The NIT would be only 16.

The NCAA would reduce the number of sports required to support to 4 for men and the corresponding number for women (probably 5 or 6).

Football would be split into FBS and FCS:
FBS-B1G, Big 12, SEC, Pac-12, ACC, AAC, MWC, Notre Dame, BYU, UConn, Army, Liberty
FCS-MAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, New Mexico State, North Dakota State,
Stephen F. Austin, etc.

FBS would have an 8-team playoff

FCS would have a 16-team playoff

You lost me at "Power 6" and naming the Big East as one. The "Power 6" is a Football reference.

Leave it to a UConn fan to post this drival. Just stop please. We all miss sports but, there's no reason to go out of your way to embarass yourself.

Pretty sure this is only about hoops... at least... I hope to goodness it is.

Concur. Just as proposed in another thread, after getting their arses kicked 13 out of the last 16 years by Cincinnati in football, and given the general direction of the two programs, is UConn football now playing at a higher level than Cincinnati by moving Independent? Are they playing at a higher level than UCF, Houston, Memphis?

(07-20-2020 03:26 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

The power conferences already receive the lion's share of the Football revenue pie. After all, the majority of football revenue is media contracts with individual P5 conferences, and they intrinsically receive 100% of that. Those are five pies, of different sizes, but each conference gets 100% of their pie.

The next big pie is the CFP / NY6 Bowl game money, and they get well over 5/6 of that.

Kicking any given number of teams out of Division 1 doesn't change that.

And the NCAA takes 70% of the NCAA Tourney money ... changing the membership of Division 1 is only going to change the Tourney money going to the Power conferences by a marginal amount.

If the P5 wants to take a much bigger slice of the pie, they need to breakaway from the NCAA, and take however many schools they need to take with them to have a "National College Basketball Championship" that eclipses the NCAA tournament and grabs the lion share of the revenue for themselves.

The proposal here is that the P5 should push through a controversial, wrenching change in pursuit of what amounts to pocket change for the P5 conferences. It's a non-starter.

I don't believe that the NCAA takes 70% of the NCAAT money. I agree that somewhere in the neighborhood of 30% goes into the pool that is distributed based on tournament participation. But that's not the only pool funded by the tournament, and P5 schools also receive the bulk of the distributions from these other funds.

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

From a college football perspective the current FBS model needs to be scrap period. No more SEC, B1G, and blah blah blah. Since 1970 only 22 teams have won a national championship in football:

LSU, Clemson, Alabama, Ohio St, FSU, Auburn, Florida. Texas, USC, Miami, Oklahoma, Michigan, Nebraska, Washington, Notre Dame, Penn St, Pitt, BYU, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Tennessee, & Georgia.

You can create a FBS I Division just from those teams with the exception of BYU, Colorado, Tennessee, Nebraska, Ga Tech, and Pitt. Replace those teams with Oregon & Wisconsin and that's a solid 18 team conference that consistently place in the Top 20 of college football recruiting and either wins or compete for NC's.

Then you create and FBS II, FBS III and FBS IV with provisions for being able to move up to another division or down a division based off a 5 year performance model.

My point history shows there are only about 20 teams that can recruit high ranking classes and compete for a NC and these teams need to be in the same conference, division, or whatever.

(07-21-2020 01:22 PM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(07-19-2020 10:17 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  It's time. COVID is going to accelerate the split because the financial impact will be exaggerated. Division 1 has gotten bloated again and the power conferences are going to want a bigger share of the pie.

From a college football perspective the current FBS model needs to be scrap period. No more SEC, B1G, and blah blah blah. Since 1970 only 22 teams have won a national championship in football:

LSU, Clemson, Alabama, Ohio St, FSU, Auburn, Florida. Texas, USC, Miami, Oklahoma, Michigan, Nebraska, Washington, Notre Dame, Penn St, Pitt, BYU, Colorado, Georgia Tech, Tennessee, & Georgia.

You can create a FBS I Division just from those teams with the exception of BYU, Colorado, Tennessee, Nebraska, Ga Tech, and Pitt. Replace those teams with Oregon & Wisconsin and that's a solid 18 team conference that consistently place in the Top 20 of college football recruiting and either wins or compete for NC's.

Then you create and FBS II, FBS III and FBS IV with provisions for being able to move up to another division or down a division based off a 5 year performance model.

My point history shows there are only about 20 teams that can recruit high ranking classes and compete for a NC and these teams need to be in the same conference, division, or whatever.

With the bolded above, do you mean promotion/relegation or that each level can and will eventually be differently sized?