(05-18-2021 08:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-16-2021 07:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's begin with an interesting correlation. I know they are only estimates of intrinsic worth based on support, regional merchandise sales, and the impacts made upon hotels, restaurants, and other aspects of schools economic impact upon their regions but the Wall Street Journal Valuations have an interesting rough but not quite exact correlation to media revenue. Roughly 1 billion in WSJ valuation translates to 10 million in media revenue.

The SEC's Value was 7.5 billion their new contract will translate in 2024-5 into roughly 70 million.

The Big 10's Value is at 5.4 billion and their most recently reported media distribution was in the 55 million range.

The PAC 12's Value was 3.0 billion and they last earned right at 32 million.

The ACC's Value was 2.2 billion but roughly half of Notre Dame's is 460 million so that translates into 27 million for the last reported income which will be highe after this year and likely more in the 32 million range. Anyway you get the point in this inexact but interesting correlation.

First there aren't enough potential valuable targets for the ACC to catch the SEC, but hypothetically they could catch the Big 10, but it would take some kind of super deal with moving parts all nursed by ESPN to make it happen.

How do you raise the 2.2 billion dollar conference value to levels equal to or exceeding the Big 10?

The answer is you have to attract Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame all in.

Texas alone has a value of 1.1 billion.
Notre Dame's value is .913 billion.
Oklahoma's is .885 billion.
Together that's roughly 2.9 billion.
Add all 3 in full to the ACC and you have a 5.1 billion dollar value.

Drop your lowest 3 valued schools and you only lose combined 225 million. (Duke, B.C., Wake Forest).

Now add Oklahoma State and Texas Tech 515 million. You now have a valuation of 5.39 billion which is a virtual tie with the Big 10. And you are at 16 members. And nobody leaves. If Texas refuses to move without more Texas schools you take Baylor and Kansas State (another 382 million) and stop at 18 in 3 divisions of 6.

Now keep in mind that even in the 16 team iteration of this plan the payout would be right at 54 million per school. Texas made 55 last year.

Notre Dame wants independence.

Oklahoma wants a solid football conference with good academics.

So the least valuable of the 3 is the only one you have a chance to land and they wouldn't come alone.

But this should put things into perspective.

It doesn't come as a surprise but the task before Phillips is monumental, though theoretically possible, and I'd say a bit more possible at 18 than 16, and without asking Duke, Wake Forest and B.C. to leave the task is a lot tougher. I think to attract Texas you would need to add a Big 12 division of 6 schools. To accomplish this you need to place 3 schools elsewhere in the ESPN family. But who has more value elsewhere than in the ACC? Basketball schools from North Carolina and Virginia would have market and hoops value to the SEC.

That might solve any internal power struggles for the ACC as well. Your new leaders would be Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Florida State.

Perhaps an ACC that looks like this could best rival both the Big 10 and SEC?

OBE Division: Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

OB12 Division: Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

OACC Division: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

The SEC picks up Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas.

East: Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas A&M

The SEC gets pro rata for the 4 additions.

The ACC gets 62 million per school.

Why? North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Kansas need solid football revenue to remain at the top of the heap in recruiting nationwide in hoops. The SEC has plenty of football value. They get their money and the SEC accepts this face value.

The ACC finally becomes a premier football conference and is paid accordingly.

It all stays under ESPN.

JR, what is the total value of the Big 12?
It would seem the most logical thing to do would be to try to increase the value of the ACC and the PAC to equal standing to about 4 to 4.5 each.

In order to get equality, major shifting and conference engineering would have to take place....I don't think the SEC and the B1G are ready for that.

The Conferences are valued as follows:
SEC: 7.5 billion
B1G: 5.4 billion
B12: 3.5 billion
PAC: 3.0 billion
ACC: 2.4 billion (Notre Dame at 910 million not included)

To do what you suggest Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Kansas State to the PAC would raise their total value to 4.65 billion.

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. to the ACC would bring your total to 4.03 billion.

Iowa State 8th in value in the Big 12 and WVU is 10th.

(05-18-2021 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-16-2021 07:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's begin with an interesting correlation. I know they are only estimates of intrinsic worth based on support, regional merchandise sales, and the impacts made upon hotels, restaurants, and other aspects of schools economic impact upon their regions but the Wall Street Journal Valuations have an interesting rough but not quite exact correlation to media revenue. Roughly 1 billion in WSJ valuation translates to 10 million in media revenue.

The SEC's Value was 7.5 billion their new contract will translate in 2024-5 into roughly 70 million.

The Big 10's Value is at 5.4 billion and their most recently reported media distribution was in the 55 million range.

The PAC 12's Value was 3.0 billion and they last earned right at 32 million.

The ACC's Value was 2.2 billion but roughly half of Notre Dame's is 460 million so that translates into 27 million for the last reported income which will be highe after this year and likely more in the 32 million range. Anyway you get the point in this inexact but interesting correlation.

First there aren't enough potential valuable targets for the ACC to catch the SEC, but hypothetically they could catch the Big 10, but it would take some kind of super deal with moving parts all nursed by ESPN to make it happen.

How do you raise the 2.2 billion dollar conference value to levels equal to or exceeding the Big 10?

The answer is you have to attract Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame all in.

Texas alone has a value of 1.1 billion.
Notre Dame's value is .913 billion.
Oklahoma's is .885 billion.
Together that's roughly 2.9 billion.
Add all 3 in full to the ACC and you have a 5.1 billion dollar value.

Drop your lowest 3 valued schools and you only lose combined 225 million. (Duke, B.C., Wake Forest).

Now add Oklahoma State and Texas Tech 515 million. You now have a valuation of 5.39 billion which is a virtual tie with the Big 10. And you are at 16 members. And nobody leaves. If Texas refuses to move without more Texas schools you take Baylor and Kansas State (another 382 million) and stop at 18 in 3 divisions of 6.

Now keep in mind that even in the 16 team iteration of this plan the payout would be right at 54 million per school. Texas made 55 last year.

Notre Dame wants independence.

Oklahoma wants a solid football conference with good academics.

So the least valuable of the 3 is the only one you have a chance to land and they wouldn't come alone.

But this should put things into perspective.

It doesn't come as a surprise but the task before Phillips is monumental, though theoretically possible, and I'd say a bit more possible at 18 than 16, and without asking Duke, Wake Forest and B.C. to leave the task is a lot tougher. I think to attract Texas you would need to add a Big 12 division of 6 schools. To accomplish this you need to place 3 schools elsewhere in the ESPN family. But who has more value elsewhere than in the ACC? Basketball schools from North Carolina and Virginia would have market and hoops value to the SEC.

That might solve any internal power struggles for the ACC as well. Your new leaders would be Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Florida State.

Perhaps an ACC that looks like this could best rival both the Big 10 and SEC?

OBE Division: Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

OB12 Division: Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

OACC Division: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

The SEC picks up Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas.

East: Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas A&M

The SEC gets pro rata for the 4 additions.

The ACC gets 62 million per school.

Why? North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Kansas need solid football revenue to remain at the top of the heap in recruiting nationwide in hoops. The SEC has plenty of football value. They get their money and the SEC accepts this face value.

The ACC finally becomes a premier football conference and is paid accordingly.

It all stays under ESPN.

JR, what is the total value of the Big 12?
It would seem the most logical thing to do would be to try to increase the value of the ACC and the PAC to equal standing to about 4 to 4.5 each.

In order to get equality, major shifting and conference engineering would have to take place....I don't think the SEC and the B1G are ready for that.

The Conferences are valued as follows:
SEC: 7.5 billion
B1G: 5.4 billion
B12: 3.5 billion
PAC: 3.0 billion
ACC: 2.4 billion (Notre Dame at 910 million not included)

To do what you suggest Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Kansas State to the PAC would raise their total value to 4.65 billion.

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. to the ACC would bring your total to 4.03 billion.

Iowa State 8th in value in the Big 12 and WVU is 10th.

What's 5/8's Notre Dame's value?
Add Notre Dame's value. The SEC would need to add two of: WVU, TCU, Iowa State, Texas Tech or Baylor.
Work out the numbers JR, you are good with math.

(05-18-2021 08:43 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-16-2021 07:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's begin with an interesting correlation. I know they are only estimates of intrinsic worth based on support, regional merchandise sales, and the impacts made upon hotels, restaurants, and other aspects of schools economic impact upon their regions but the Wall Street Journal Valuations have an interesting rough but not quite exact correlation to media revenue. Roughly 1 billion in WSJ valuation translates to 10 million in media revenue.

The SEC's Value was 7.5 billion their new contract will translate in 2024-5 into roughly 70 million.

The Big 10's Value is at 5.4 billion and their most recently reported media distribution was in the 55 million range.

The PAC 12's Value was 3.0 billion and they last earned right at 32 million.

The ACC's Value was 2.2 billion but roughly half of Notre Dame's is 460 million so that translates into 27 million for the last reported income which will be highe after this year and likely more in the 32 million range. Anyway you get the point in this inexact but interesting correlation.

First there aren't enough potential valuable targets for the ACC to catch the SEC, but hypothetically they could catch the Big 10, but it would take some kind of super deal with moving parts all nursed by ESPN to make it happen.

How do you raise the 2.2 billion dollar conference value to levels equal to or exceeding the Big 10?

The answer is you have to attract Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame all in.

Texas alone has a value of 1.1 billion.
Notre Dame's value is .913 billion.
Oklahoma's is .885 billion.
Together that's roughly 2.9 billion.
Add all 3 in full to the ACC and you have a 5.1 billion dollar value.

Drop your lowest 3 valued schools and you only lose combined 225 million. (Duke, B.C., Wake Forest).

Now add Oklahoma State and Texas Tech 515 million. You now have a valuation of 5.39 billion which is a virtual tie with the Big 10. And you are at 16 members. And nobody leaves. If Texas refuses to move without more Texas schools you take Baylor and Kansas State (another 382 million) and stop at 18 in 3 divisions of 6.

Now keep in mind that even in the 16 team iteration of this plan the payout would be right at 54 million per school. Texas made 55 last year.

Notre Dame wants independence.

Oklahoma wants a solid football conference with good academics.

So the least valuable of the 3 is the only one you have a chance to land and they wouldn't come alone.

But this should put things into perspective.

It doesn't come as a surprise but the task before Phillips is monumental, though theoretically possible, and I'd say a bit more possible at 18 than 16, and without asking Duke, Wake Forest and B.C. to leave the task is a lot tougher. I think to attract Texas you would need to add a Big 12 division of 6 schools. To accomplish this you need to place 3 schools elsewhere in the ESPN family. But who has more value elsewhere than in the ACC? Basketball schools from North Carolina and Virginia would have market and hoops value to the SEC.

That might solve any internal power struggles for the ACC as well. Your new leaders would be Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Florida State.

Perhaps an ACC that looks like this could best rival both the Big 10 and SEC?

OBE Division: Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

OB12 Division: Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

OACC Division: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

The SEC picks up Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas.

East: Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas A&M

The SEC gets pro rata for the 4 additions.

The ACC gets 62 million per school.

Why? North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Kansas need solid football revenue to remain at the top of the heap in recruiting nationwide in hoops. The SEC has plenty of football value. They get their money and the SEC accepts this face value.

The ACC finally becomes a premier football conference and is paid accordingly.

It all stays under ESPN.

JR, what is the total value of the Big 12?
It would seem the most logical thing to do would be to try to increase the value of the ACC and the PAC to equal standing to about 4 to 4.5 each.

In order to get equality, major shifting and conference engineering would have to take place....I don't think the SEC and the B1G are ready for that.

The Conferences are valued as follows:
SEC: 7.5 billion
B1G: 5.4 billion
B12: 3.5 billion
PAC: 3.0 billion
ACC: 2.4 billion (Notre Dame at 910 million not included)

To do what you suggest Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Kansas State to the PAC would raise their total value to 4.65 billion.

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. to the ACC would bring your total to 4.03 billion.

Iowa State 8th in value in the Big 12 and WVU is 10th.

What's 5/8's Notre Dame's value?
Add Notre Dame's value. The SEC would need to add two of: WVU, TCU, Iowa State, Texas Tech or Baylor.
Work out the numbers JR, you are good with math.

The SEC wouldn't be adding anyone as they detract and offer nothing we want.

N.D.'s value is 379 million. And Texas isn't coming without buddies and more than 2 at that. In fact there is no incentive for Texas to come at all unless they have their own division.

There is no magic bullet for you here X. It is what it is. Only 1 conference can catch the SEC's current value and that's the Big 10 if they landed both Texas and Oklahoma they would be within 100 million in value. If they added Texas and N.D. they would catch us unless we added Oklahoma.

The Big 12 and PAC could merge and they could catch the Big 10. But for the ACC to close the gap you really need to land Texa-homa and Notre Dame in fully and then that gets you to 5.3 plus another school gets you even with the Big 10 but with more schools.

Are we throwing pipe dreams out there? If we are then yes add ND, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State & Penn State.
Or maybe the ACC could have a coup and remove members with subpar athletic quality.

But if we're throwing out realistic possibilities then the best answer is adding UCF & Cincinnati. I've posted it here before but here's the format.

South - FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, UCF
Mid Atlantic - Clemson, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Louisville
Tobacco Road - NC State, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest
North - Boston College, Pittsburg, Syracuse, Cincinnati

Full conference slate in 4 years, gives you 32 additional regular season games by adding 2 teams and going to 9 conference games. Adding a semifinal game would also give a tv contract boost and could be significant in getting additional teams into an expanded CFP. It changes the ACC from a stretched conference feel to a small conference feel emphasizing each region. This format will create and strengthen rivalries drawing better ratings. Oh also every team would play a conference game in Florida 3 out of every 4 years.

(05-16-2021 07:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's begin with an interesting correlation. I know they are only estimates of intrinsic worth based on support, regional merchandise sales, and the impacts made upon hotels, restaurants, and other aspects of schools economic impact upon their regions but the Wall Street Journal Valuations have an interesting rough but not quite exact correlation to media revenue. Roughly 1 billion in WSJ valuation translates to 10 million in media revenue.

The SEC's Value was 7.5 billion their new contract will translate in 2024-5 into roughly 70 million.

The Big 10's Value is at 5.4 billion and their most recently reported media distribution was in the 55 million range.

The PAC 12's Value was 3.0 billion and they last earned right at 32 million.

The ACC's Value was 2.2 billion but roughly half of Notre Dame's is 460 million so that translates into 27 million for the last reported income which will be highe after this year and likely more in the 32 million range. Anyway you get the point in this inexact but interesting correlation.

First there aren't enough potential valuable targets for the ACC to catch the SEC, but hypothetically they could catch the Big 10, but it would take some kind of super deal with moving parts all nursed by ESPN to make it happen.

How do you raise the 2.2 billion dollar conference value to levels equal to or exceeding the Big 10?

The answer is you have to attract Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame all in.

Texas alone has a value of 1.1 billion.
Notre Dame's value is .913 billion.
Oklahoma's is .885 billion.
Together that's roughly 2.9 billion.
Add all 3 in full to the ACC and you have a 5.1 billion dollar value.

Drop your lowest 3 valued schools and you only lose combined 225 million. (Duke, B.C., Wake Forest).

Now add Oklahoma State and Texas Tech 515 million. You now have a valuation of 5.39 billion which is a virtual tie with the Big 10. And you are at 16 members. And nobody leaves. If Texas refuses to move without more Texas schools you take Baylor and Kansas State (another 382 million) and stop at 18 in 3 divisions of 6.

Now keep in mind that even in the 16 team iteration of this plan the payout would be right at 54 million per school. Texas made 55 last year.

Notre Dame wants independence.

Oklahoma wants a solid football conference with good academics.

So the least valuable of the 3 is the only one you have a chance to land and they wouldn't come alone.

But this should put things into perspective.

It doesn't come as a surprise but the task before Phillips is monumental, though theoretically possible, and I'd say a bit more possible at 18 than 16, and without asking Duke, Wake Forest and B.C. to leave the task is a lot tougher. I think to attract Texas you would need to add a Big 12 division of 6 schools. To accomplish this you need to place 3 schools elsewhere in the ESPN family. But who has more value elsewhere than in the ACC? Basketball schools from North Carolina and Virginia would have market and hoops value to the SEC.

That might solve any internal power struggles for the ACC as well. Your new leaders would be Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Florida State.

Perhaps an ACC that looks like this could best rival both the Big 10 and SEC?

OBE Division: Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

OB12 Division: Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

OACC Division: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

The SEC picks up Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas.

East: Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas A&M

The SEC gets pro rata for the 4 additions.

The ACC gets 62 million per school.

Why? North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Kansas need solid football revenue to remain at the top of the heap in recruiting nationwide in hoops. The SEC has plenty of football value. They get their money and the SEC accepts this face value.

The ACC finally becomes a premier football conference and is paid accordingly.

It all stays under ESPN.

Leaving the ACC to save the ACC would be the ultimate humbling experience for you-know-who.

(05-18-2021 08:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:43 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-16-2021 07:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's begin with an interesting correlation. I know they are only estimates of intrinsic worth based on support, regional merchandise sales, and the impacts made upon hotels, restaurants, and other aspects of schools economic impact upon their regions but the Wall Street Journal Valuations have an interesting rough but not quite exact correlation to media revenue. Roughly 1 billion in WSJ valuation translates to 10 million in media revenue.

The SEC's Value was 7.5 billion their new contract will translate in 2024-5 into roughly 70 million.

The Big 10's Value is at 5.4 billion and their most recently reported media distribution was in the 55 million range.

The PAC 12's Value was 3.0 billion and they last earned right at 32 million.

The ACC's Value was 2.2 billion but roughly half of Notre Dame's is 460 million so that translates into 27 million for the last reported income which will be highe after this year and likely more in the 32 million range. Anyway you get the point in this inexact but interesting correlation.

First there aren't enough potential valuable targets for the ACC to catch the SEC, but hypothetically they could catch the Big 10, but it would take some kind of super deal with moving parts all nursed by ESPN to make it happen.

How do you raise the 2.2 billion dollar conference value to levels equal to or exceeding the Big 10?

The answer is you have to attract Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame all in.

Texas alone has a value of 1.1 billion.
Notre Dame's value is .913 billion.
Oklahoma's is .885 billion.
Together that's roughly 2.9 billion.
Add all 3 in full to the ACC and you have a 5.1 billion dollar value.

Drop your lowest 3 valued schools and you only lose combined 225 million. (Duke, B.C., Wake Forest).

Now add Oklahoma State and Texas Tech 515 million. You now have a valuation of 5.39 billion which is a virtual tie with the Big 10. And you are at 16 members. And nobody leaves. If Texas refuses to move without more Texas schools you take Baylor and Kansas State (another 382 million) and stop at 18 in 3 divisions of 6.

Now keep in mind that even in the 16 team iteration of this plan the payout would be right at 54 million per school. Texas made 55 last year.

Notre Dame wants independence.

Oklahoma wants a solid football conference with good academics.

So the least valuable of the 3 is the only one you have a chance to land and they wouldn't come alone.

But this should put things into perspective.

It doesn't come as a surprise but the task before Phillips is monumental, though theoretically possible, and I'd say a bit more possible at 18 than 16, and without asking Duke, Wake Forest and B.C. to leave the task is a lot tougher. I think to attract Texas you would need to add a Big 12 division of 6 schools. To accomplish this you need to place 3 schools elsewhere in the ESPN family. But who has more value elsewhere than in the ACC? Basketball schools from North Carolina and Virginia would have market and hoops value to the SEC.

That might solve any internal power struggles for the ACC as well. Your new leaders would be Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Florida State.

Perhaps an ACC that looks like this could best rival both the Big 10 and SEC?

OBE Division: Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

OB12 Division: Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

OACC Division: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

The SEC picks up Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas.

East: Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas A&M

The SEC gets pro rata for the 4 additions.

The ACC gets 62 million per school.

Why? North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Kansas need solid football revenue to remain at the top of the heap in recruiting nationwide in hoops. The SEC has plenty of football value. They get their money and the SEC accepts this face value.

The ACC finally becomes a premier football conference and is paid accordingly.

It all stays under ESPN.

JR, what is the total value of the Big 12?
It would seem the most logical thing to do would be to try to increase the value of the ACC and the PAC to equal standing to about 4 to 4.5 each.

In order to get equality, major shifting and conference engineering would have to take place....I don't think the SEC and the B1G are ready for that.

The Conferences are valued as follows:
SEC: 7.5 billion
B1G: 5.4 billion
B12: 3.5 billion
PAC: 3.0 billion
ACC: 2.4 billion (Notre Dame at 910 million not included)

To do what you suggest Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Kansas State to the PAC would raise their total value to 4.65 billion.

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. to the ACC would bring your total to 4.03 billion.

Iowa State 8th in value in the Big 12 and WVU is 10th.

What's 5/8's Notre Dame's value?
Add Notre Dame's value. The SEC would need to add two of: WVU, TCU, Iowa State, Texas Tech or Baylor.
Work out the numbers JR, you are good with math.

The SEC wouldn't be adding anyone as they detract and offer nothing we want.

N.D.'s value is 379 million. And Texas isn't coming without buddies and more than 2 at that. In fact there is no incentive for Texas to come at all unless they have their own division.

There is no magic bullet for you here X. It is what it is. Only 1 conference can catch the SEC's current value and that's the Big 10 if they landed both Texas and Oklahoma they would be within 100 million in value. If they added Texas and N.D. they would catch us unless we added Oklahoma.

The Big 12 and PAC could merge and they could catch the Big 10. But for the ACC to close the gap you really need to land Texa-homa and Notre Dame in fully and then that gets you to 5.3 plus another school gets you even with the Big 10 but with more schools.

I'm not looking for a magic bullet. The numbers are what they are. Any school that has a big stadium and can fill it will always have more value than a small stadium school regardless of 'media' income.
What you are looking for JR, is a formula that would allow a "conference" to solidify a collective fan base so that it could be marketed to that fan base for the purpose of playoff sports. The SEC and the B1G have done a much better job of making their fans feel a kinship with one another, and tend to follow other teams in their conferences much more closely than the other three P5 leagues.
If you can construct two other leagues (in addition to the SEC and B1G) such that the schools in those leagues will buy into a conference mantra, then you will have provided a foundation for successful playoff football.
Eventually 'media' income will be regulated by the NCAA or other overseeing group like it is in professional sports to aid the folks in small markets, but the money differential will always be there because Texas A&M will always be able to put 80,000 more fans in their stadium per game than Wake Forest can. That's a lot more chasers and mixers sold, not to mention the ticket revenue.
Of course the money is important and the SEC and B1G will always have the most, but for the sake of the sport and playoff football, marketable identities have to be found for the PAC, ACC and Big 12 with the caveat; only two of the three can survive.

(05-18-2021 11:07 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  Are we throwing pipe dreams out there? If we are then yes add ND, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State & Penn State.
Or maybe the ACC could have a coup and remove members with subpar athletic quality.

But if we're throwing out realistic possibilities then the best answer is adding UCF & Cincinnati. I've posted it here before but here's the format.

South - FSU, Miami, Georgia Tech, UCF
Mid Atlantic - Clemson, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Louisville
Tobacco Road - NC State, North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest
North - Boston College, Pittsburg, Syracuse, Cincinnati

Full conference slate in 4 years, gives you 32 additional regular season games by adding 2 teams and going to 9 conference games. Adding a semifinal game would also give a tv contract boost and could be significant in getting additional teams into an expanded CFP. It changes the ACC from a stretched conference feel to a small conference feel emphasizing each region. This format will create and strengthen rivalries drawing better ratings. Oh also every team would play a conference game in Florida 3 out of every 4 years.

That makes a very nice conference, but it adds zero value to the members. If anything, adding two more full shares could reduce the per team payout. That's fine if the league is satisfied with where it stands financially relative to the other P5 conferences. But this conversation is more about how the ACC can start to close the revenue gap. This doesn't do that.

(05-19-2021 05:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:43 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-18-2021 08:03 PM)XLance Wrote:  JR, what is the total value of the Big 12?
It would seem the most logical thing to do would be to try to increase the value of the ACC and the PAC to equal standing to about 4 to 4.5 each.

In order to get equality, major shifting and conference engineering would have to take place....I don't think the SEC and the B1G are ready for that.

The Conferences are valued as follows:
SEC: 7.5 billion
B1G: 5.4 billion
B12: 3.5 billion
PAC: 3.0 billion
ACC: 2.4 billion (Notre Dame at 910 million not included)

To do what you suggest Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Kansas State to the PAC would raise their total value to 4.65 billion.

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. to the ACC would bring your total to 4.03 billion.

Iowa State 8th in value in the Big 12 and WVU is 10th.

What's 5/8's Notre Dame's value?
Add Notre Dame's value. The SEC would need to add two of: WVU, TCU, Iowa State, Texas Tech or Baylor.
Work out the numbers JR, you are good with math.

The SEC wouldn't be adding anyone as they detract and offer nothing we want.

N.D.'s value is 379 million. And Texas isn't coming without buddies and more than 2 at that. In fact there is no incentive for Texas to come at all unless they have their own division.

There is no magic bullet for you here X. It is what it is. Only 1 conference can catch the SEC's current value and that's the Big 10 if they landed both Texas and Oklahoma they would be within 100 million in value. If they added Texas and N.D. they would catch us unless we added Oklahoma.

The Big 12 and PAC could merge and they could catch the Big 10. But for the ACC to close the gap you really need to land Texa-homa and Notre Dame in fully and then that gets you to 5.3 plus another school gets you even with the Big 10 but with more schools.

I'm not looking for a magic bullet. The numbers are what they are. Any school that has a big stadium and can fill it will always have more value than a small stadium school regardless of 'media' income.
What you are looking for JR, is a formula that would allow a "conference" to solidify a collective fan base so that it could be marketed to that fan base for the purpose of playoff sports. The SEC and the B1G have done a much better job of making their fans feel a kinship with one another, and tend to follow other teams in their conferences much more closely than the other three P5 leagues.
If you can construct two other leagues (in addition to the SEC and B1G) such that the schools in those leagues will buy into a conference mantra, then you will have provided a foundation for successful playoff football.
Eventually 'media' income will be regulated by the NCAA or other overseeing group like it is in professional sports to aid the folks in small markets, but the money differential will always be there because Texas A&M will always be able to put 80,000 more fans in their stadium per game than Wake Forest can. That's a lot more chasers and mixers sold, not to mention the ticket revenue.
Of course the money is important and the SEC and B1G will always have the most, but for the sake of the sport and playoff football, marketable identities have to be found for the PAC, ACC and Big 12 with the caveat; only two of the three can survive.

I see what you are saying and I don't know if we can accomplish what you ask without blowing it all up and re-dividing which of course would damage the associations in the Big 10 and SEC and may cure the symptoms but kill the patient.

As to the NCAA they will never again set media prices (OU/UGa 1983) and will likely soon lose their control over the NCAA tourney (NIL/Stipends).

The PAC 12 / Big 12 merger could help the PAC but the political visions of the two conferences would be opposites and the revenue isn't there for Texas and Oklahoma. The problem for the ACC is that the Big 10 and SEC have sucked the oxygen out of the room and left you with few profitable expansion candidates.

The only upside I see to two large leagues, basically built around the Big 10 and SEC, is that at least within those leagues the equal revenue distributions could legally take place bringing a semblance of leveling the field by leveling the media revenue base. It would also tie larger markets into your brand whether your people culturally followed the other members of the league or not. Essentially your games would borrow the league viewers of the former SEC or Big 10 schools who are habituated and even that raises your value.

The downsides are too much cultural homogenization, unfamiliar scheduling, and the loss of autonomy. I fear, however, that this is where we are headed by force of finances regardless of how we feel about it. And if so, the sooner we get there the less pain for all, and likely the fewer casualties.

I’m still not sure where Kansas is.

Are they in the SEC West or ACC West? SEC West with Missouri makes more sense. This would open a spot in the ACC West for Baylor.

I’m also going to propose that if this were to occur, that the acronym ACC remain in place, but the name changes to the American Collegiate Conference.

(05-17-2021 12:08 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Your figures seem to only be taking into account football value and not basketball value. While for some schools, like Texas, the basketball value is negligible relative to the football value, in others the basketball value is comparable to or greater than that for football. For instance, based on the 2018 WSJ valuations for football, Duke is dead last in the ACC with $67.5M, but their most recent WSJ valuation for basketball (2016) was $190M. That was second best in the ACC after Louisville.

Not sure if you saw this, JR. Thoughts?

(05-19-2021 02:31 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-17-2021 12:08 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Your figures seem to only be taking into account football value and not basketball value. While for some schools, like Texas, the basketball value is negligible relative to the football value, in others the basketball value is comparable to or greater than that for football. For instance, based on the 2018 WSJ valuations for football, Duke is dead last in the ACC with $67.5M, but their most recent WSJ valuation for basketball (2016) was $190M. That was second best in the ACC after Louisville.

Not sure if you saw this, JR. Thoughts?

I did. Did you see the difference in values? Football is done in billions, basketball in 100's of millions where the most valuable were 200 million or below. So for the purposes of the discussion that would impact the ACC departing schools less than 350 million and Kansas around 191 million (and it's been a while since I looked). If they were added to their conferences revenue totals by the 2017 numbers I had posted on the SEC board the ratios wouldn't change. So for the purposes of valuations in the billions a difference of .3 billion makes little to no difference and recalculating the value of the Big 12, SEC and Big 12 / PAC to account more specifically for the valuation of negligible hoops value differences wasn't worth the time. Indiana and Kentucky still earned a lot and we are talking 220 to 240 million range tops, and that is still not significant.

(05-19-2021 01:50 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(05-16-2021 07:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Let's begin with an interesting correlation. I know they are only estimates of intrinsic worth based on support, regional merchandise sales, and the impacts made upon hotels, restaurants, and other aspects of schools economic impact upon their regions but the Wall Street Journal Valuations have an interesting rough but not quite exact correlation to media revenue. Roughly 1 billion in WSJ valuation translates to 10 million in media revenue.

The SEC's Value was 7.5 billion their new contract will translate in 2024-5 into roughly 70 million.

The Big 10's Value is at 5.4 billion and their most recently reported media distribution was in the 55 million range.

The PAC 12's Value was 3.0 billion and they last earned right at 32 million.

The ACC's Value was 2.2 billion but roughly half of Notre Dame's is 460 million so that translates into 27 million for the last reported income which will be highe after this year and likely more in the 32 million range. Anyway you get the point in this inexact but interesting correlation.

First there aren't enough potential valuable targets for the ACC to catch the SEC, but hypothetically they could catch the Big 10, but it would take some kind of super deal with moving parts all nursed by ESPN to make it happen.

How do you raise the 2.2 billion dollar conference value to levels equal to or exceeding the Big 10?

The answer is you have to attract Texas, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame all in.

Texas alone has a value of 1.1 billion.
Notre Dame's value is .913 billion.
Oklahoma's is .885 billion.
Together that's roughly 2.9 billion.
Add all 3 in full to the ACC and you have a 5.1 billion dollar value.

Drop your lowest 3 valued schools and you only lose combined 225 million. (Duke, B.C., Wake Forest).

Now add Oklahoma State and Texas Tech 515 million. You now have a valuation of 5.39 billion which is a virtual tie with the Big 10. And you are at 16 members. And nobody leaves. If Texas refuses to move without more Texas schools you take Baylor and Kansas State (another 382 million) and stop at 18 in 3 divisions of 6.

Now keep in mind that even in the 16 team iteration of this plan the payout would be right at 54 million per school. Texas made 55 last year.

Notre Dame wants independence.

Oklahoma wants a solid football conference with good academics.

So the least valuable of the 3 is the only one you have a chance to land and they wouldn't come alone.

But this should put things into perspective.

It doesn't come as a surprise but the task before Phillips is monumental, though theoretically possible, and I'd say a bit more possible at 18 than 16, and without asking Duke, Wake Forest and B.C. to leave the task is a lot tougher. I think to attract Texas you would need to add a Big 12 division of 6 schools. To accomplish this you need to place 3 schools elsewhere in the ESPN family. But who has more value elsewhere than in the ACC? Basketball schools from North Carolina and Virginia would have market and hoops value to the SEC.

That might solve any internal power struggles for the ACC as well. Your new leaders would be Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Florida State.

Perhaps an ACC that looks like this could best rival both the Big 10 and SEC?

OBE Division: Boston College, Louisville, Miami, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

OB12 Division: Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

OACC Division: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

The SEC picks up Duke, North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas.

East: Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Kansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas A&M

The SEC gets pro rata for the 4 additions.

The ACC gets 62 million per school.

Why? North Carolina, Duke, Virginia and Kansas need solid football revenue to remain at the top of the heap in recruiting nationwide in hoops. The SEC has plenty of football value. They get their money and the SEC accepts this face value.

The ACC finally becomes a premier football conference and is paid accordingly.

It all stays under ESPN.

Leaving the ACC to save the ACC would be the ultimate humbling experience for you-know-who.

Jim Phillips ??

(05-19-2021 02:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-19-2021 02:31 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-17-2021 12:08 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Your figures seem to only be taking into account football value and not basketball value. While for some schools, like Texas, the basketball value is negligible relative to the football value, in others the basketball value is comparable to or greater than that for football. For instance, based on the 2018 WSJ valuations for football, Duke is dead last in the ACC with $67.5M, but their most recent WSJ valuation for basketball (2016) was $190M. That was second best in the ACC after Louisville.

Not sure if you saw this, JR. Thoughts?

I did. Did you see the difference in values? Football is done in billions, basketball in 100's of millions where the most valuable were 200 million or below. So for the purposes of the discussion that would impact the ACC departing schools less than 350 million and Kansas around 191 million (and it's been a while since I looked). If they were added to their conferences revenue totals by the 2017 numbers I had posted on the SEC board the ratios wouldn't change. So for the purposes of valuations in the billions a difference of .3 billion makes little to no difference and recalculating the value of the Big 12, SEC and Big 12 / PAC to account more specifically for the valuation of negligible hoops value differences wasn't worth the time. Indiana and Kentucky still earned a lot and we are talking 220 to 240 million range tops, and that is still not significant.

Well, just generally speaking, the BB value is of course smaller than the FB value, but it's not exactly negligible. For example, looking at conference totals, the basketball value of the ACC puts it above the Pac-12 when combined with the football value.



But mostly I was referring to comments like this:

Quote:Drop your lowest 3 valued schools and you only lose combined 225 million. (Duke, B.C., Wake Forest).

While BC and WF are bottom of the pile even with BB value added, Duke's BB value puts them in the middle of the ACC pack.

(05-19-2021 05:13 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

Can this put an end to this "Duke should become a partial ACC member" crap? They bring in more revenue in men's basketball alone than to my count nine of the fourteen ACC football teams. And I'm sick of football, football, football. That might be true in the SEC and Big Ten. The #1 money maker in the ACC is Louisville men's basketball. Football might make 80% of other conferences' revenue but in the ACC it's 64%. If I'm Duke and the ACC tells me they want me to take a partial deal, I'll tell them to go kiss my butt and take my $190M where it will be appreciated.

(05-19-2021 05:25 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-19-2021 05:13 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

Can this put an end to this "Duke should become a partial ACC member" crap? They bring in more revenue in men's basketball alone than to my count nine of the fourteen ACC football teams. And I'm sick of football, football, football. That might be true in the SEC and Big Ten. The #1 money maker in the ACC is Louisville men's basketball. Football might make 80% of other conferences' revenue but in the ACC it's 64%. If I'm Duke and the ACC tells me they want me to take a partial deal, I'll tell them to go kiss my butt and take my $190M where it will be appreciated.

If their value is largely in BB, which it seems to be, then having them become a non-FB member is not totally unreasonable. Also, just to keep in mind, the WSJ BB valuations seem to be more volatile from year to year than the FB ones. I assume the large differences are mainly due to NCAAT performance, but I haven't looked that closely.

(05-19-2021 05:32 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-19-2021 05:25 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-19-2021 05:13 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

Can this put an end to this "Duke should become a partial ACC member" crap? They bring in more revenue in men's basketball alone than to my count nine of the fourteen ACC football teams. And I'm sick of football, football, football. That might be true in the SEC and Big Ten. The #1 money maker in the ACC is Louisville men's basketball. Football might make 80% of other conferences' revenue but in the ACC it's 64%. If I'm Duke and the ACC tells me they want me to take a partial deal, I'll tell them to go kiss my butt and take my $190M where it will be appreciated.

If their value is largely in BB, which it seems to be, then having them become a non-FB member is not totally unreasonable. Also, just to keep in mind, the WSJ BB valuations seem to be more volatile from year to year than the FB ones. I assume the large differences are mainly due to NCAAT performance, but I haven't looked that closely.

Of course it isn't negligible as a total, but it is still relative. And thanks for the compilations. If you can get data for 2018-9 on both I'll stick it to the top in the important section. You can find the football data on the SEC board it's the hoops values that are trickier to get as the WSJ usually uses the football values to draw hits but puts the hoops values behind a paywall.

The ACC's objective is to close the financial gap. As you can see they trail the Big 10 by a couple of hundred million and lead the SEC by 180 million. So the ability of basketball value to make up the revenue gap with regard specifically to the Big 10 and SEC is negligible. With regard to the PAC 12 and Big 12 it isn't. The point remains that there are only 3 schools which if they all joined the ACC in full could help them at least catch the Big 10 in football valuation: Texas, Notre Dame and Oklahoma the combination of which adds 2.9 billion to the ACC. So then the operative question becomes what do they have to do to land them? Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Baylor, etc, come into the equation at that point. I don't see Texas moving without at least their own division and taking them as a partial does nothing much in the way of closing the gap.

I'd say since 2016 however that the SEC, Big 12, and PAC valuations in hoops have gone up. It is useful information and nice to have but as it pertains to closing the financial gap it doesn't help the ACC against the Big 10 and is extremely negligible with regard to the SEC.

Edit: You make a good point about Wake and B.C. and having them become a football partial and open those slots for 2 stronger full time members.

Found 2019 valuations for BB: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-much-is...1554739458

And the 2018 valuations for FB: https://graphics.wsj.com/table/NCAA_2019

Looks like the ACC fell back behind the Pac.

Do they have Big East men's basketball numbers? How about AAC? I'd like to see UConn. The WSJ link required choosing a subscription.

(05-19-2021 05:25 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-19-2021 05:13 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

Can this put an end to this "Duke should become a partial ACC member" crap? They bring in more revenue in men's basketball alone than to my count nine of the fourteen ACC football teams. And I'm sick of football, football, football. That might be true in the SEC and Big Ten. The #1 money maker in the ACC is Louisville men's basketball. Football might make 80% of other conferences' revenue but in the ACC it's 64%. If I'm Duke and the ACC tells me they want me to take a partial deal, I'll tell them to go kiss my butt and take my $190M where it will be appreciated.

How can you tell from this data that Duke brings in more revenue from basketball than 9 members do from football? This doesn't appear to be measuring "revenue".

(05-19-2021 07:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-19-2021 05:25 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(05-19-2021 05:13 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

Can this put an end to this "Duke should become a partial ACC member" crap? They bring in more revenue in men's basketball alone than to my count nine of the fourteen ACC football teams. And I'm sick of football, football, football. That might be true in the SEC and Big Ten. The #1 money maker in the ACC is Louisville men's basketball. Football might make 80% of other conferences' revenue but in the ACC it's 64%. If I'm Duke and the ACC tells me they want me to take a partial deal, I'll tell them to go kiss my butt and take my $190M where it will be appreciated.

How can you tell from this data that Duke brings in more revenue from basketball than 9 members do from football? This doesn't appear to be measuring "revenue".

It's not. It's measuring the impact the school has on business generated independent of the school for its region and is therefore a kind of gauge of brand value. But it does appear to have a direct correlation to earnings probably because of the commercial value angle and its appeal for gauging advertising reach.

If he wants earnings Equity in Athletics will have it and Sandman has it posted in the Important threads section of the CS/CR forum and at the top of the SEC board where I have it broken down by conference.

And the CS/CR forum is the appropriate place to request the posting of G5 valuations.

In Gross Total Revenue Duke is 5th, Virginia 6th and North Carolina 7th in the ACC.