(08-08-2021 07:18 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 06:43 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  The idea that SBC and MAC are on the same level is so mind-meltingly stupid...

That's the point- they are not. Tech was in the Sunbelt at one point (not football). To play in the Sunbelt conference basketball tournament each team had to actually PAY $50,000 to participate and you had to pay again for the women's team to play. If you think Marshall is actually going to come out ahead financially with a move to the Sunbelt then I don't know what to tell you except- "Good luck with that and I hope your fans enjoy all of those Tues/Wed/Thurs football games".

Your comparisons as to what was the SBC as to what it is now is at the root of what is wrong with the the LTU admin and the vast majority of its fans.

But at least we agree on the bigger point: if, and that’s still a big if, the SBC were too add any cusa schools the ones we want are UAB, USM, Marshall or maybe ODU. So you have nothing to worry about.

(08-08-2021 07:49 PM)FrankyP Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 07:18 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 06:43 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  The idea that SBC and MAC are on the same level is so mind-meltingly stupid...

That's the point- they are not. Tech was in the Sunbelt at one point (not football). To play in the Sunbelt conference basketball tournament each team had to actually PAY $50,000 to participate and you had to pay again for the women's team to play. If you think Marshall is actually going to come out ahead financially with a move to the Sunbelt then I don't know what to tell you except- "Good luck with that and I hope your fans enjoy all of those Tues/Wed/Thurs football games".

Your comparisons as to what was the SBC as to what it is now is at the root of what is wrong with the the LTU admin and the vast majority of its fans.

But at least we agree on the bigger point: if, and that’s still a big if, the SBC were too add any cusa schools the ones we want are UAB, USM, Marshall or maybe ODU. So you have nothing to worry about.

Fans on message boards love to talk about what "they" think as if its fact. You or no other CUSA or SBC fans have a f'ing clue as to what the presidents "want".

As for the dollars I've showed the numbers reported, no not box score or made up numbers but what each schools reports under penalty to the feds and NCAA.

Travel expense for Ark St and ull has went up way more than for Western playing in CUSA vs SBC. The dollar amount for tickets sold has rose for Western while DECLINED for ULL and ArkSt. That's not my opinion but reports your school made to the feds and NCAA. Once more here they are for 2012, 2013 Western lastr years in the SBC and the past two season in CUSA for Western and SBC for d Ark St.
For Western this is after a awful hire in football and attendance/season tickets dropped. ULL had just made a good hire and was first or second in the west of SBC. ULL had a 11 win season in the last 2....tickets sold still dropped.

Stop talking like you actually know whats going on because you and most fans dont. That's just the facts of it...its all based on the way you FEEL





Does anyone really believe its cheaper for Olympics sports to travel to these smaller cities without a major hub? Its a lot cheaper flying to Miami than Ga Southern. Unless you are busing to Appy St the travel cost is going to be more for a eastern based school to get there flying than to UNCC or probably even Dallas

If it cost ULL 5 million in travel its going to cost Marshall 6 million playing in the SBC...yes that's only a opinion but based on facts that its cheaper traveling to major hubs than cities without them

(08-08-2021 05:56 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  First of all even if the "visit" were true, I think you guys could be missing the primary rationale for such a meeting.

To me, it actually would give the premise of a split credibility and Gill could be trying to sway Marshall not to f* with the Sun Belt membership in starting a new league or reforming C-USA. Or at the very least to understand what's happening to try to stay in front of it. To me, it would signal concern by the SBC brass about what Marshall is actually up to and how that could negatively impact the SBC.

And if that were in fact to be the case, I would give the guy credit for doing so. In one visit just to have his league's back, he would have done more than Judy has done in years.

Agree. If the meeting happen it was to protect the Sun Belt. The last thing he wants is CUSA East to split and try to take Appy, Coastal, Ga. Southern, and GA State. "If" he is making a proposal to Marshall there will be other schools getting an offer too.

(08-08-2021 06:43 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 03:50 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  Hey, if Marshall wants to pay the C-USA exit fees and forfeit all of their revenue share to join the Sunbelt, MAC, or whatever, they can do so.

Wait a minute. Exit fees plus ALL of our revenue share? Wow, that must be hundreds of dollars. We’ll see what we can do.

The idea that SBC and MAC are on the same level is so mind-meltingly stupid that a response isn’t really necessary. But it is a reminder of why we need to get out of this league.

Quote:We'll just need to make sure the 'ole check clears first. lol

After so many years in C-USA, there’s no doubt that each of us is scrambling to pay the bills. Don’t blame you for being cautious.

To the bold part, no its actually MILLIONS of dollars. I will take the word of Western's AD on this over fans on a message board. Any team that leaves must give a 14 months notice and forfeit that year conference revenues. Plus a fee to be agreed upon by the CUSA members. That could have changed since 2016 but I doubt it. That comment came when the Big12 thought they were losing Texas and a few others and had to add from AAC in 2016



NCAA/CONFERENCE DISTRIBUTIONS, MEDIA RIGHTS, AND POST-SEASON FOOTBALL
Revenue received from the NCAA (including championships) and athletics conferences, media rights, and post-season football bowl games

For Western in 2019 $2,767,825 and 2018 $3,428,797

(08-08-2021 05:41 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Is Sun Belt football that much better (now and in the future) that Marshall would put men's basketball in a conference whose most recent champion lost in the play-in round?

CUSA is a one bid league so let’s stop pretending we are a legit basketball conference. I do agree we should have had a 2nd bid most years but we didn’t.

(08-08-2021 08:23 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 06:43 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 03:50 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  Hey, if Marshall wants to pay the C-USA exit fees and forfeit all of their revenue share to join the Sunbelt, MAC, or whatever, they can do so.

Wait a minute. Exit fees plus ALL of our revenue share? Wow, that must be hundreds of dollars. We’ll see what we can do.

The idea that SBC and MAC are on the same level is so mind-meltingly stupid that a response isn’t really necessary. But it is a reminder of why we need to get out of this league.

Quote:We'll just need to make sure the 'ole check clears first. lol

After so many years in C-USA, there’s no doubt that each of us is scrambling to pay the bills. Don’t blame you for being cautious.

To the bold part, no its actually MILLIONS of dollars. I will take the word of Western's AD on this over fans on a message board. Any team that leaves must give a 14 months notice and forfeit that year conference revenues. Plus a fee to be agreed upon by the CUSA members. That could have changed since 2016 but I doubt it. That comment came when the Big12 thought they were losing Texas and a few others and had to add from AAC in 2016



NCAA/CONFERENCE DISTRIBUTIONS, MEDIA RIGHTS, AND POST-SEASON FOOTBALL
Revenue received from the NCAA (including championships) and athletics conferences, media rights, and post-season football bowl games

For Western in 2019 $2,767,825 and 2018 $3,428,797

It is also possible that you guys signed different agreements than the original 5 teams did. You don't know. But we made the rules upon your additions. And I think those rules would tend to favor us. I know we voted down any kind of grant of rights for that reason. Freedom to go if things didn't work out.

(08-08-2021 08:27 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 05:41 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Is Sun Belt football that much better (now and in the future) that Marshall would put men's basketball in a conference whose most recent champion lost in the play-in round?

CUSA is a one bid league so let’s stop pretending we are a legit basketball conference. I do agree we should have had a 2nd bid most years but we didn’t.

The point of spending money to "move" is about the future and what it could bring. Today CUSA is a bubble conference most years...

other words the 2nd bid is a good win or bad loss away from that 2nd bid. You cant say that for the SBC. If the basketball schools in CUSA returned to their historical play and no I'm not talk their HIGH, but good. CUSA becomes a 2 bid conference with looking to add to that.

Anything based solely on, the now, and not the past, to look towards the future, is a awful decision being made.

Football is the same way and while the SBC had the better seasons over the last 2 years...the top of CUSA was head and shoulders better from 2014-2017.

2015 & 2016 the top 3 and possibly top 4 in CUSA would have beat the SBC champion...easily.

Recruiting rankings (which I dont put much stock in but most fans do) you usually have 5 CUSA schools before you get to the first SBC school. Then 8 out the first 10 is usually CUSA .

The only thing some of you are looking at is two years in much CUSA football was awful.

(08-08-2021 08:27 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 05:41 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Is Sun Belt football that much better (now and in the future) that Marshall would put men's basketball in a conference whose most recent champion lost in the play-in round?

CUSA is a one bid league so let’s stop pretending we are a legit basketball conference. I do agree we should have had a 2nd bid most years but we didn’t.

Just wanted to help clear this up for you guys...here is the Men's Basketball Conference RPI from Warren Nolen for the last 6 seasons. CUSA was rated higher than the Sun Belt 3 out of 6 years so that's pretty much a wash at least recently.

Mens basketball RPI
2021
CUSA 12th OOC win pct - 57%
Sun Belt 15th OOC win pct – 47%

2020
Sun Belt 14th OOC win pct – 45%
CUSA 17th OOC win pct – 49%

2019
CUSA 13th OOC win pct – 51%
Sun Belt 17th OOC win pct – 48%

2018
CUSA 14th OOC win pct – 49%
Sun Belt 20th OOC win pct – 48%

2017
Sun Belt 13th OOC win pct – 52%
CUSA 23rd OOC win pct – 43%

2016
Sun Belt 17th OOC win pct – 43%
CUSA 21st OOC win pct - 41%

OK I'll let you guys and gals get back to arguing about who's cheating who and who's being true...

I don’t think Marshall will leave for the Sun Belt. That really doesn’t do much as moving from one conference to another is basically a lateral move.

If this rumor is true then I think it means that the new Eastern conference will basically be the Sun Belt with Gill as commissioner while the new western conference will be CUSA with their HQs in Texas and Judy.

The new Sun Belt will basically be...

Marshall
WKU
MTSU
ODU
Charlotte
FAU
FIU

App State
Ga So
Ga State
Coastal Carolina
???

I’m not sure who #12 will be but my guess is either UAB, Troy, Liberty, or possibly even JMU.

(08-08-2021 08:35 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 08:23 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 06:43 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 03:50 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  Hey, if Marshall wants to pay the C-USA exit fees and forfeit all of their revenue share to join the Sunbelt, MAC, or whatever, they can do so.

Wait a minute. Exit fees plus ALL of our revenue share? Wow, that must be hundreds of dollars. We’ll see what we can do.

The idea that SBC and MAC are on the same level is so mind-meltingly stupid that a response isn’t really necessary. But it is a reminder of why we need to get out of this league.

Quote:We'll just need to make sure the 'ole check clears first. lol

After so many years in C-USA, there’s no doubt that each of us is scrambling to pay the bills. Don’t blame you for being cautious.

To the bold part, no its actually MILLIONS of dollars. I will take the word of Western's AD on this over fans on a message board. Any team that leaves must give a 14 months notice and forfeit that year conference revenues. Plus a fee to be agreed upon by the CUSA members. That could have changed since 2016 but I doubt it. That comment came when the Big12 thought they were losing Texas and a few others and had to add from AAC in 2016



NCAA/CONFERENCE DISTRIBUTIONS, MEDIA RIGHTS, AND POST-SEASON FOOTBALL
Revenue received from the NCAA (including championships) and athletics conferences, media rights, and post-season football bowl games

For Western in 2019 $2,767,825 and 2018 $3,428,797

It is also possible that you guys signed different agreements than the original 5 teams did. You don't know. But we made the rules upon your additions. And I think those rules would tend to favor us. I know we voted down any kind of grant of rights for that reason. Freedom to go if things didn't work out.

No No no....

this conference is not working that way. Conference money, yes, those 5 got what the others that left paid. Western took a lesser share than the schools added before them...the money dropped Todd wasnt asked what it would cost Western to leave CUSA. His quote was what it would cost a CUSA member to leave CUSA.

You might argue what is "revenues" and cut that down some. I believe (no sure) included in that amount is the money CUSA pays each school out of bowl money to cover travel cost to bowls. Is that revenue? It is on a budget but there would also be a line for the expense.

(08-08-2021 05:41 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Is Sun Belt football that much better (now and in the future) that Marshall would put men's basketball in a conference whose most recent champion lost in the play-in round?

The Belt had an upset in their conference tournament. App State went 7-8 in reg-season but still got the auto-bid. It happens.

(08-08-2021 08:23 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 06:43 PM)Cardiff Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 03:50 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  Hey, if Marshall wants to pay the C-USA exit fees and forfeit all of their revenue share to join the Sunbelt, MAC, or whatever, they can do so.

Wait a minute. Exit fees plus ALL of our revenue share? Wow, that must be hundreds of dollars. We’ll see what we can do.

To the bold part, no its actually MILLIONS of dollars.

“hundreds of dollars” was sarcasm.

I don’t know and never claimed to know the exact amount Marshall would have to pay out-of-pocket, nor the exact amount of the distribution Marshall would have to forfeit. I’m skeptical that it would amount to $3.4m or more. But if it does, it does. C-USA is a shitshow on wheels and it’s time to get out.

(08-08-2021 08:45 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 08:27 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 05:41 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Is Sun Belt football that much better (now and in the future) that Marshall would put men's basketball in a conference whose most recent champion lost in the play-in round?

CUSA is a one bid league so let’s stop pretending we are a legit basketball conference. I do agree we should have had a 2nd bid most years but we didn’t.

Just wanted to help clear this up for you guys...here is the Men's Basketball Conference RPI from Warren Nolen for the last 6 seasons. CUSA was rated higher than the Sun Belt 3 out of 6 years so that's pretty much a wash at least recently.

Mens basketball RPI
2021
CUSA 12th OOC win pct - 57%
Sun Belt 15th OOC win pct – 47%

2020
Sun Belt 14th OOC win pct – 45%
CUSA 17th OOC win pct – 49%

2019
CUSA 13th OOC win pct – 51%
Sun Belt 17th OOC win pct – 48%

2018
CUSA 14th OOC win pct – 49%
Sun Belt 20th OOC win pct – 48%

2017
Sun Belt 13th OOC win pct – 52%
CUSA 23rd OOC win pct – 43%

2016
Sun Belt 17th OOC win pct – 43%
CUSA 21st OOC win pct - 41%

OK I'll let you guys and gals get back to arguing about who's cheating who and who's being true...

That is useless when you are looking at the top of a conference for NCAA bids. Cut CUSA down to the same amount of schools as the SBC...

taking out the bottom

I will correct myself in its not 100% useless because a heavy bottom hurts the top schools just by playing them.

I am actually shocked that in the, what 3?, threads we have going right now about Marshall and what they are going to do, nobody mentions their Men's Soccer. The Belt doesn't sponsor the sport, so where will they play? I suppose they could ask CUSA if they could stay here, and while it might be hard to say no to the defending National Champions, it would also be tough to bail them out after they just stuck it to CUSA. It would be interesting to watch that unfold.

I’ll just add that the OP doesn’t have access to the board where this rumor was posted. So he doesn’t know who posted it or what that person was told and by who. I got the OK from him to ASK about it on the Sun Belt board under the condition I made it clear it was a rumor.

So johns the next time you want to look stupid just DM me so for your sake there will only be an audience of one.

(08-08-2021 08:53 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 08:45 PM)Georgia_Power_Company Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 08:27 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(08-08-2021 05:41 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Is Sun Belt football that much better (now and in the future) that Marshall would put men's basketball in a conference whose most recent champion lost in the play-in round?

CUSA is a one bid league so let’s stop pretending we are a legit basketball conference. I do agree we should have had a 2nd bid most years but we didn’t.

Just wanted to help clear this up for you guys...here is the Men's Basketball Conference RPI from Warren Nolen for the last 6 seasons. CUSA was rated higher than the Sun Belt 3 out of 6 years so that's pretty much a wash at least recently.

Mens basketball RPI
2021
CUSA 12th OOC win pct - 57%
Sun Belt 15th OOC win pct – 47%

2020
Sun Belt 14th OOC win pct – 45%
CUSA 17th OOC win pct – 49%

2019
CUSA 13th OOC win pct – 51%
Sun Belt 17th OOC win pct – 48%

2018
CUSA 14th OOC win pct – 49%
Sun Belt 20th OOC win pct – 48%

2017
Sun Belt 13th OOC win pct – 52%
CUSA 23rd OOC win pct – 43%

2016
Sun Belt 17th OOC win pct – 43%
CUSA 21st OOC win pct - 41%

OK I'll let you guys and gals get back to arguing about who's cheating who and who's being true...

That is useless when you are looking at the top of a conference for NCAA bids. Cut CUSA down to the same amount of schools as the SBC...

taking out the bottom

I will correct myself in its not 100% useless because a heavy bottom hurts the top schools just by playing them.

Excellent point Guns. For example, last year CUSA had 9 teams in the top half of all D1 teams in the Massey ratings (4 of which were in the Top 100). The Sun Belt only had 3 in the top half (none in the Top 100) and NINE in the bottom half of all D1.

CUSA has a strong core of schools that care about basketball and if we can get those few bottom teams to improve their program, the entire conference improves significantly.

(08-08-2021 08:54 PM)Nugget49er Wrote:  I am actually shocked that in the, what 3?, threads we have going right now about Marshall and what they are going to do, nobody mentions their Men's Soccer. The Belt doesn't sponsor the sport, so where will they play? I suppose they could ask CUSA if they could stay here, and while it might be hard to say no to the defending National Champions, it would also be tough to bail them out after they just stuck it to CUSA. It would be interesting to watch that unfold.

Agreed, but Coastal and Ga St play soccer that I know of... I wonder if we could get WVU, UK, and South Carolina to follow the defending national champs to the Sun Belt. I don’t see why they would care as it’s only for one sport.

That would be 6 schools right there.

Either way, I don’t see this happening. Marshall is happy for the most part with CUSA East. I don’t see us leaving our CUSA East schools. If anything, I think we are trying to take CUSA East and merge with the Sun Belt East.

(08-08-2021 03:50 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  Hey, if Marshall wants to pay the C-USA exit fees and forfeit all of their revenue share to join the Sunbelt, MAC, or whatever, they can do so. We'll just need to make sure the 'ole check clears first. lol

I totally agree. I'm tired of dealing with this stupid realignment garbage every off-season. Any program that wants out is free to pay their exit fees and leave. The rest of us will be better off.

(08-08-2021 04:59 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  So Marshall is joining the SBC? When do you think this will happen and who will be the 12th? Maybe USM? No Marshall games in Florida so maybe the 12th would be FAU?

At least it would be very rare for Marshall to trek to Texas. You would really like that fact.

Please let it be ODU....

(08-08-2021 08:46 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  I don’t think Marshall will leave for the Sun Belt. That really doesn’t do much as moving from one conference to another is basically a lateral move.

If this rumor is true then I think it means that the new Eastern conference will basically be the Sun Belt with Gill as commissioner while the new western conference will be CUSA with their HQs in Texas and Judy.

The new Sun Belt will basically be...

Marshall
WKU
MTSU
ODU
Charlotte
FAU
FIU

App State
Ga So
Ga State
Coastal Carolina
???

I’m not sure who #12 will be but my guess is either UAB, Troy, Liberty, or possibly even JMU.

Southern Miss

Let's agree on one thing: things have become so stale in the last couple of years in the C-USA that people are clamoring for a change - ANY change - just to shake things up. Even if the move is, at best, a lateral move.