(10-25-2021 09:57 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  I wouldn’t speak for all Tribe fans though I think the consensus is the CAA is the best option out there for W&M. It’s all sports for us. In football it includes some of our biggest rivals, Richmond and Delaware, and the basketball is competitive. I actually like being in a league with good schools up/down the eastern seaboard. For our alums, there are chances to watch us play at least once in Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore, Raleigh and SC. We have a lot of alums spread through there. Periodically people might bring up the Patriot or So Con though they are just less attractive overall.

The eastern seaboard is really what the CAA is offering. If you feel that’s “a far flung mess”, I’m not sure any conference would meet your approval. As I said, if you want a more regional conference, go for it. I would assume if your school admins wanted out, they would do something about it. It’s not like UNCW and Drexel don’t have other options. The So Con and MAAC seem to fit your respective issues better.

SoCon may have less of a perceived sprawl problem, but W&M would be the northeastern corner of that league so the travel isn't likely to be any better. If we also rule out the ASUN, NEC, and Big South for obvious reasons I think W&M's calculus is purely CAA vs. Patriot, and they'd be the southern border of the Patriot so the geography benefits aren't great there either.

(10-24-2021 09:25 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Here is a CAA conference N/S split that might fly. 14 schools for full membership and football. We have 9 full when JMU leaves and 11 in football. So we need to add three additional schools with football that aren't already in the CAA and two more schools for full membership that are either already in CAA football or are non-football schools.

Full membership:

South - CofC, UNCW, Elon, William and Mary, Campbell(new, football), VMI(new, football), Wofford(new, football)

North - Drexel, Hofstra, NU, Towson, Delaware, Stony Brook(already CAA football), UMBC(non football).

CAA football

South - W&M, Elon, Richmond, Towson, Campbell(full football), VMI(full football), Wofford(full football)
North - Delaware, Albany, Stony Brook, Villanova, Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire

This is the best CAA scenario I could come up with for a N/S CAA division setup. It keeps football and basketball strong and brings in good baseball as well. Campbell, Wofford and VMI all step up to a stronger football conference, stay in a strong basketball conference, help with CAA baseball, and stay in a tight geographical area.

I would not have any real issue if this happened. I would have hoped the south division could have a stronger pull out of the SoCon, but overall that probably is a best realistic scenario that helps the league manage both sports fairly. My guess is Hofstra still wont allow Stony Brook, so they would be replaced by someone like a Monmouth or Albany

(10-25-2021 12:56 PM)dan10 Wrote:  

(10-24-2021 09:25 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Here is a CAA conference N/S split that might fly. 14 schools for full membership and football. We have 9 full when JMU leaves and 11 in football. So we need to add three additional schools with football that aren't already in the CAA and two more schools for full membership that are either already in CAA football or are non-football schools.

Full membership:

South - CofC, UNCW, Elon, William and Mary, Campbell(new, football), VMI(new, football), Wofford(new, football)

North - Drexel, Hofstra, NU, Towson, Delaware, Stony Brook(already CAA football), UMBC(non football).

CAA football

South - W&M, Elon, Richmond, Towson, Campbell(full football), VMI(full football), Wofford(full football)
North - Delaware, Albany, Stony Brook, Villanova, Rhode Island, Maine, New Hampshire

This is the best CAA scenario I could come up with for a N/S CAA division setup. It keeps football and basketball strong and brings in good baseball as well. Campbell, Wofford and VMI all step up to a stronger football conference, stay in a strong basketball conference, help with CAA baseball, and stay in a tight geographical area.

I would not have any real issue if this happened. I would have hoped the south division could have a stronger pull out of the SoCon, but overall that probably is a best realistic scenario that helps the league manage both sports fairly. My guess is Hofstra still wont allow Stony Brook, so they would be replaced by someone like a Monmouth or Albany

We'd let the northerners battle that out. And based on what I researched, these schools had the most value add across the board in athletics.

HBCU Gameday reports the CAA has had discussions with Howard.
https://hbcugameday.com/2021/10/26/could...-look-caa/

I’m hearing Wofford has checked into joining the CAA and UNC Greensboro is also looking at the CAA if they don’t get into the A-10.

Fairfield would also be the addition for the North and split the league into two divisions.

North - NU, HU, UD, Drexel, TU and Fairfield

South - CofC, WM, UNCW, Elon, UNCG and Wofford

Need an 18 game conference schedule. Here's an example with 7 teams in each division for all sports except football.

North - Delaware, NU, Drexel, Hofstra, Towson, UMBC, Stony Brook
South - CofC, UNCW, UNCG, Elon, William and Mary, Campbell, Winthrop or Wofford

12 home and home games come from conference division, and each school would play another 6 games from the other division.

Based on prior year final RPI >

#1 and #2 teams from each division from the prior year play home and home to get to 16 games and then play the #3 and #4 teams from the other division once to get to 18.

#3 and #4 teams from each division play home and home to get to 16 and play #1 and #2 from other division once to get to 18.

#5, #6 and #7 teams from each division play home and home to get to 18 games.

This gives every school in the conference an incentive to finish top 4 each year, and it also allows those top teams to avoid the bottom three teams in the other division for RPI purposes. This would really help to get to multiple bids. The A10 has 14 members right now.

Does there have to be an 18 game schedule?

I like 12 total vs 14. Also, I like the option of Wofford vs Monmouth.

The A10 is not going to take UNCG.

(10-27-2021 01:45 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Does there have to be an 18 game schedule?

I like 12 total vs 14. Also, I like the option of Wofford vs Monmouth.

The A10 is not going to take UNCG.

Yes. 18 game conference schedule. But something similar can be done with 12 teams as well.

(10-27-2021 04:16 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 01:45 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Does there have to be an 18 game schedule?

I like 12 total vs 14. Also, I like the option of Wofford vs Monmouth.

The A10 is not going to take UNCG.

Yes. 18 game conference schedule. But something similar can be done with 12 teams as well.

Thanks. I think 12 members should be a ceiling. When you go above that in basketball, the tourneys seem so jumbled. I never like the A10 tournament because they drag it out for what seems a week and you need a computer to keep track of who plays who. Too messy.

(10-27-2021 04:54 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 04:16 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 01:45 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  Does there have to be an 18 game schedule?

I like 12 total vs 14. Also, I like the option of Wofford vs Monmouth.

The A10 is not going to take UNCG.

Yes. 18 game conference schedule. But something similar can be done with 12 teams as well.

Thanks. I think 12 members should be a ceiling. When you go above that in basketball, the tourneys seem so jumbled. I never like the A10 tournament because they drag it out for what seems a week and you need a computer to keep track of who plays who. Too messy.

Expect Lead1 to come out with a full throated endorsement of 14 team mid-major conferences in near future.

(10-27-2021 10:47 AM)82hawk Wrote:  Need an 18 game conference schedule. Here's an example with 7 teams in each division for all sports except football.

North - Delaware, NU, Drexel, Hofstra, Towson, UMBC, Stony Brook
South - CofC, UNCW, UNCG, Elon, William and Mary, Campbell, Winthrop or Wofford

12 home and home games come from conference division, and each school would play another 6 games from the other division.

Based on prior year final RPI >

#1 and #2 teams from each division from the prior year play home and home to get to 16 games and then play the #3 and #4 teams from the other division once to get to 18.

#3 and #4 teams from each division play home and home to get to 16 and play #1 and #2 from other division once to get to 18.

#5, #6 and #7 teams from each division play home and home to get to 18 games.

This gives every school in the conference an incentive to finish top 4 each year, and it also allows those top teams to avoid the bottom three teams in the other division for RPI purposes. This would really help to get to multiple bids. The A10 has 14 members right now.

What makes you think the CAA north schools want to be in a league with UMBC?

That's not happening. They don't fit academically.

(10-27-2021 10:00 AM)geewizNU Wrote:  I’m hearing Wofford has checked into joining the CAA and UNC Greensboro is also looking at the CAA if they don’t get into the A-10.

Fairfield would also be the addition for the North and split the league into two divisions.

North - NU, HU, UD, Drexel, TU and Fairfield

South - CofC, WM, UNCW, Elon, UNCG and Wofford

This is just about perfect IMO. I would prefer Furman but would not be at all disappointed with Wofford.

(10-27-2021 08:44 PM)geewizNU Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 10:47 AM)82hawk Wrote:  Need an 18 game conference schedule. Here's an example with 7 teams in each division for all sports except football.

North - Delaware, NU, Drexel, Hofstra, Towson, UMBC, Stony Brook
South - CofC, UNCW, UNCG, Elon, William and Mary, Campbell, Winthrop or Wofford

12 home and home games come from conference division, and each school would play another 6 games from the other division.

Based on prior year final RPI >

#1 and #2 teams from each division from the prior year play home and home to get to 16 games and then play the #3 and #4 teams from the other division once to get to 18.

#3 and #4 teams from each division play home and home to get to 16 and play #1 and #2 from other division once to get to 18.

#5, #6 and #7 teams from each division play home and home to get to 18 games.

This gives every school in the conference an incentive to finish top 4 each year, and it also allows those top teams to avoid the bottom three teams in the other division for RPI purposes. This would really help to get to multiple bids. The A10 has 14 members right now.

What makes you think the CAA north schools want to be in a league with UMBC?

That's not happening. They don't fit academically.

UMBC is pretty close in academic standing to Drexel. Whether that says more about Drexel than UMBC is up for debate.

(10-27-2021 08:44 PM)geewizNU Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 10:47 AM)82hawk Wrote:  Need an 18 game conference schedule. Here's an example with 7 teams in each division for all sports except football.

North - Delaware, NU, Drexel, Hofstra, Towson, UMBC, Stony Brook
South - CofC, UNCW, UNCG, Elon, William and Mary, Campbell, Winthrop or Wofford

12 home and home games come from conference division, and each school would play another 6 games from the other division.

Based on prior year final RPI >

#1 and #2 teams from each division from the prior year play home and home to get to 16 games and then play the #3 and #4 teams from the other division once to get to 18.

#3 and #4 teams from each division play home and home to get to 16 and play #1 and #2 from other division once to get to 18.

#5, #6 and #7 teams from each division play home and home to get to 18 games.

This gives every school in the conference an incentive to finish top 4 each year, and it also allows those top teams to avoid the bottom three teams in the other division for RPI purposes. This would really help to get to multiple bids. The A10 has 14 members right now.

What makes you think the CAA north schools want to be in a league with UMBC?

That's not happening. They don't fit academically.

The setup isn't based on which schools come on board. I've heard UMBC from several posters, but i'm not from up north, so I have no idea. Pick your favorite substitute and the formula still works out. If we are going N/S divisions, this is a way to improve our RPI's, and thus our chances for multiple bids.

(10-28-2021 05:56 AM)82hawk Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 08:44 PM)geewizNU Wrote:  

(10-27-2021 10:47 AM)82hawk Wrote:  Need an 18 game conference schedule. Here's an example with 7 teams in each division for all sports except football.

North - Delaware, NU, Drexel, Hofstra, Towson, UMBC, Stony Brook
South - CofC, UNCW, UNCG, Elon, William and Mary, Campbell, Winthrop or Wofford

12 home and home games come from conference division, and each school would play another 6 games from the other division.

Based on prior year final RPI >

#1 and #2 teams from each division from the prior year play home and home to get to 16 games and then play the #3 and #4 teams from the other division once to get to 18.

#3 and #4 teams from each division play home and home to get to 16 and play #1 and #2 from other division once to get to 18.

#5, #6 and #7 teams from each division play home and home to get to 18 games.

This gives every school in the conference an incentive to finish top 4 each year, and it also allows those top teams to avoid the bottom three teams in the other division for RPI purposes. This would really help to get to multiple bids. The A10 has 14 members right now.

What makes you think the CAA north schools want to be in a league with UMBC?

That's not happening. They don't fit academically.

The setup isn't based on which schools come on board. I've heard UMBC from several posters, but i'm not from up north, so I have no idea. Pick your favorite substitute and the formula still works out. If we are going N/S divisions, this is a way to improve our RPI's, and thus our chances for multiple bids.

I don’t get the UMBC thing either. The CAA has Towson. Don’t think we need two members from Baltimore.

Why not? Neither of them is commanding a huge slice of the Baltimore media pie. It's a natural basketball rivalry. UMBC has brand recognition from their UVA win. It solidifies a Mid-Atlantic center for the conference. I think it's a no-brainer.

What I find most interesting in the conference realignment discussion for CAA schools is the constant drumbeat of hopeful movement to the A10. It's on almost every CAA message board. And it isn't just non-football schools, which is surprising since the argument about non football schools in the CAA is that they have an advantage in basktball and the football schools don't want them added.

So, what's the difference? If full CAA members WITH football went to the A10, they'd still have to fund football. And they'd be a part of a conference that doesn't offer football. Oh, and there is the fact that half the A10 schools HAVE football teams, lol.

Maybe the better solution is to court the schools with the best basketball teams we can, whether they have football or not. The mentality of keeping non football schools out of full membership in the CAA is a losers mentality. All boats rise with the tide. We already have an upper level option for FCS football in the CAA. Let's work on making CAA basketball great again. Don't forget, when it was great VCU, GMU and UNCW were all non football schools leading the way for the CAA. If UNCG or UMBC can come on board and make CAA basketball relevant again, it helps every school in the conference.

(10-28-2021 02:50 PM)82hawk Wrote:  What I find most interesting in the conference realignment discussion for CAA schools is the constant drumbeat of hopeful movement to the A10. It's on almost every CAA message board. And it isn't just non-football schools, which is surprising since the argument about non football schools in the CAA is that they have an advantage in basktball and the football schools don't want them added.

So, what's the difference? If full CAA members WITH football went to the A10, they'd still have to fund football. And they'd be a part of a conference that doesn't offer football. Oh, and there is the fact that half the A10 schools HAVE football teams, lol.

Maybe the better solution is to court the schools with the best basketball teams we can, whether they have football or not. The mentality of keeping non football schools out of full membership in the CAA is a losers mentality. All boats rise with the tide. We already have an upper level option for FCS football in the CAA. Let's work on making CAA basketball great again. Don't forget, when it was great VCU, GMU and UNCW were all non football schools leading the way for the CAA. If UNCG or UMBC can come on board and make CAA basketball relevant again, it helps every school in the conference.

The A-10 has media revenues and garners at-large bids. It's probably easier to schedule Power 5 OOC games, even at home.

An A-10 membership would signal a CAA school had been invited to a seat at the cheerleaders' table in the cafeteria. That said, it would appear that a good many of the schools seated at the table -- Fordham, LaSalle, and even St. Joe's and GMU these days -- aren't being asked out on many dates. Presumably it's still worth it, but don't know how much fun it is for the fan base at these institutions. Can almost hear leadership at the next school invited telling the fans "Trust me, you'll love it honey; you're gonna be the Vanderbilt of the A-10."

Howard and Hampton are being examined, N.C. Central is possible.
https://twitter.com/RTDNEWS/status/1453774081480970240

(10-28-2021 03:57 PM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  

(10-28-2021 02:50 PM)82hawk Wrote:  What I find most interesting in the conference realignment discussion for CAA schools is the constant drumbeat of hopeful movement to the A10. It's on almost every CAA message board. And it isn't just non-football schools, which is surprising since the argument about non football schools in the CAA is that they have an advantage in basktball and the football schools don't want them added.

So, what's the difference? If full CAA members WITH football went to the A10, they'd still have to fund football. And they'd be a part of a conference that doesn't offer football. Oh, and there is the fact that half the A10 schools HAVE football teams, lol.

Maybe the better solution is to court the schools with the best basketball teams we can, whether they have football or not. The mentality of keeping non football schools out of full membership in the CAA is a losers mentality. All boats rise with the tide. We already have an upper level option for FCS football in the CAA. Let's work on making CAA basketball great again. Don't forget, when it was great VCU, GMU and UNCW were all non football schools leading the way for the CAA. If UNCG or UMBC can come on board and make CAA basketball relevant again, it helps every school in the conference.

The A-10 has media revenues and garners at-large bids. It's probably easier to schedule Power 5 OOC games, even at home.

An A-10 membership would signal a CAA school had been invited to a seat at the cheerleaders' table in the cafeteria. That said, it would appear that a good many of the schools seated at the table -- Fordham, LaSalle, and even St. Joe's and GMU these days -- aren't being asked out on many dates. Presumably it's still worth it, but don't know how much fun it is for the fan base at these institutions. Can almost hear leadership at the next school invited telling the fans "Trust me, you'll love it honey; you're gonna be the Vanderbilt of the A-10."

Lol. I get your point. But, why not become the alternative to the A10 instead of trying to join the A10? Go after the best basketball schools you can and make CAA basketball as good as CAA football has been. The A10 offloaded football to the CAA to focus on basketball, and now the CAA football schools are all talking about going to the A10....for basketball and leaving football in the CAA, as though that somehow magically erases the expense of football.

I think we are right on the cusp of returning to basketball prominence, IF the FCS football schools don't kill it by insisting on only bringing in all sports member who must have football.