(01-23-2022 09:31 AM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 11:08 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 10:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 12:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-21-2022 08:53 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  That does seem likely, and it might help get them into the Big 12. Certainly won't hurt.

It seems clear the Big 12 intends to add at least two by 2025 or 2027, and four by 2030 or so.

Memphis is the only shoo-in, but SMU is probably on the Big 12's short list, along with Boise St., USF, and the top MWC schools such as SDSU. They could be one of the first two to make the jump.

.

Actually if you spend time on the big 12 board and around the current teams in the big 12 almost none of them want Memphis anymore. It’s all about Colorado St. for BYU and possibly USF for UCF. But Memphis is a no and SMU is a better chance of every fan in the big 12 winning the lottery no.

But in general most of them have no interest in expanding at all unless there is guaranteed raise to the TV deal.


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Except, none of them will make the decisions on whether to expand or who to add.
I am happy to see SMU, USF and any other school in this conference spending and improving facilities regardless of whether they end up in Big12 or not.

I know the fans don’t necessarily make the decisions. But those fans more than likely share the mentality of their schools admin. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unless the Big 12 gets poached again there is only a non-zero chance SMU gets invited.

The knock on Memphis is they don’t bring the big things the current Big 12 teams want, a fertile recruiting ground and a major market. Florida brings that which is why USF has a better shot than Memphis in almost every latest scenario. Colorado st. is different in that alot of the legacy schools desperately want a school in Colorado again. Colorado St. gives them the potential to get a presence in Colorado again along with a good travel partner for BYU, plus a great market.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

coming from a homer who can't spell a lot. it's not alot, bro.

Dinging somebody on spelling

(01-23-2022 09:31 AM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 11:08 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 10:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 12:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-21-2022 08:53 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  That does seem likely, and it might help get them into the Big 12. Certainly won't hurt.

It seems clear the Big 12 intends to add at least two by 2025 or 2027, and four by 2030 or so.

Memphis is the only shoo-in, but SMU is probably on the Big 12's short list, along with Boise St., USF, and the top MWC schools such as SDSU. They could be one of the first two to make the jump.

.

Actually if you spend time on the big 12 board and around the current teams in the big 12 almost none of them want Memphis anymore. It’s all about Colorado St. for BYU and possibly USF for UCF. But Memphis is a no and SMU is a better chance of every fan in the big 12 winning the lottery no.

But in general most of them have no interest in expanding at all unless there is guaranteed raise to the TV deal.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

Except, none of them will make the decisions on whether to expand or who to add.
I am happy to see SMU, USF and any other school in this conference spending and improving facilities regardless of whether they end up in Big12 or not.

I know the fans don’t necessarily make the decisions. But those fans more than likely share the mentality of their schools admin. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unless the Big 12 gets poached again there is only a non-zero chance SMU gets invited.

The knock on Memphis is they don’t bring the big things the current Big 12 teams want, a fertile recruiting ground and a major market. Florida brings that which is why USF has a better shot than Memphis in almost every latest scenario. Colorado st. is different in that alot of the legacy schools desperately want a school in Colorado again. Colorado St. gives them the potential to get a presence in Colorado again along with a good travel partner for BYU, plus a great market.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

coming from a homer who can't spell a lot. it's not alot, bro.

The fact that your only retort is a critic on spelling is very telling.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

(01-23-2022 11:10 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 09:31 AM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 11:08 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 10:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 12:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  Actually if you spend time on the big 12 board and around the current teams in the big 12 almost none of them want Memphis anymore. It’s all about Colorado St. for BYU and possibly USF for UCF. But Memphis is a no and SMU is a better chance of every fan in the big 12 winning the lottery no.

But in general most of them have no interest in expanding at all unless there is guaranteed raise to the TV deal.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

Except, none of them will make the decisions on whether to expand or who to add.
I am happy to see SMU, USF and any other school in this conference spending and improving facilities regardless of whether they end up in Big12 or not.

I know the fans don’t necessarily make the decisions. But those fans more than likely share the mentality of their schools admin. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unless the Big 12 gets poached again there is only a non-zero chance SMU gets invited.

The knock on Memphis is they don’t bring the big things the current Big 12 teams want, a fertile recruiting ground and a major market. Florida brings that which is why USF has a better shot than Memphis in almost every latest scenario. Colorado st. is different in that alot of the legacy schools desperately want a school in Colorado again. Colorado St. gives them the potential to get a presence in Colorado again along with a good travel partner for BYU, plus a great market.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

coming from a homer who can't spell a lot. it's not alot, bro.

The fact that your only retort is a critic on spelling is very telling.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

I think the word your looking for is critique

(01-24-2022 10:12 AM)UAB Schnauzer Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 11:10 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 09:31 AM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 11:08 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 10:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  Except, none of them will make the decisions on whether to expand or who to add.
I am happy to see SMU, USF and any other school in this conference spending and improving facilities regardless of whether they end up in Big12 or not.

I know the fans don’t necessarily make the decisions. But those fans more than likely share the mentality of their schools admin. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unless the Big 12 gets poached again there is only a non-zero chance SMU gets invited.

The knock on Memphis is they don’t bring the big things the current Big 12 teams want, a fertile recruiting ground and a major market. Florida brings that which is why USF has a better shot than Memphis in almost every latest scenario. Colorado st. is different in that alot of the legacy schools desperately want a school in Colorado again. Colorado St. gives them the potential to get a presence in Colorado again along with a good travel partner for BYU, plus a great market.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

coming from a homer who can't spell a lot. it's not alot, bro.

The fact that your only retort is a critic on spelling is very telling.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

I think the word your looking for is critique

(Looks like Rice fans will fit right in with these pedants.)

So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

(01-22-2022 11:08 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 10:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 12:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-21-2022 08:53 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  

(01-21-2022 11:12 AM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Obviously a push for Big 12 future expansion.

That does seem likely, and it might help get them into the Big 12. Certainly won't hurt.

It seems clear the Big 12 intends to add at least two by 2025 or 2027, and four by 2030 or so.

Memphis is the only shoo-in, but SMU is probably on the Big 12's short list, along with Boise St., USF, and the top MWC schools such as SDSU. They could be one of the first two to make the jump.

.

Actually if you spend time on the big 12 board and around the current teams in the big 12 almost none of them want Memphis anymore. It’s all about Colorado St. for BYU and possibly USF for UCF. But Memphis is a no and SMU is a better chance of every fan in the big 12 winning the lottery no.

But in general most of them have no interest in expanding at all unless there is guaranteed raise to the TV deal.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

Except, none of them will make the decisions on whether to expand or who to add.
I am happy to see SMU, USF and any other school in this conference spending and improving facilities regardless of whether they end up in Big12 or not.

I know the fans don’t necessarily make the decisions. But those fans more than likely share the mentality of their schools admin. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unless the Big 12 gets poached again there is only a non-zero chance SMU gets invited.

The knock on Memphis is they don’t bring the big things the current Big 12 teams want, a fertile recruiting ground and a major market. Florida brings that which is why USF has a better shot than Memphis in almost every latest scenario. Colorado st. is different in that alot of the legacy schools desperately want a school in Colorado again. Colorado St. gives them the potential to get a presence in Colorado again along with a good travel partner for BYU, plus a great market.


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I'm so tired of people saying travel partner for schools that are 7+ hours apart by bus. CSU is not a travel partner for BYU. Flights are required to get to both and between the two. Once you step on a plane, the word travel partner is gone.

Travel partner would be like UCF and usf that are 2 hours apart. You can fly your women's volleyball and softball teams into Orlando, play against UCF, then hop on a quick bus ride to Tampa to play usf and fly home out of Tampa. That is what a real travel partner looks like. Two schools close enough to lower the burden of travels costs to play them in the same trip.

(01-24-2022 11:16 AM)MagicKnightmare Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 11:08 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 10:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 12:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-21-2022 08:53 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  That does seem likely, and it might help get them into the Big 12. Certainly won't hurt.

It seems clear the Big 12 intends to add at least two by 2025 or 2027, and four by 2030 or so.

Memphis is the only shoo-in, but SMU is probably on the Big 12's short list, along with Boise St., USF, and the top MWC schools such as SDSU. They could be one of the first two to make the jump.

.

Actually if you spend time on the big 12 board and around the current teams in the big 12 almost none of them want Memphis anymore. It’s all about Colorado St. for BYU and possibly USF for UCF. But Memphis is a no and SMU is a better chance of every fan in the big 12 winning the lottery no.

But in general most of them have no interest in expanding at all unless there is guaranteed raise to the TV deal.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

Except, none of them will make the decisions on whether to expand or who to add.
I am happy to see SMU, USF and any other school in this conference spending and improving facilities regardless of whether they end up in Big12 or not.

I know the fans don’t necessarily make the decisions. But those fans more than likely share the mentality of their schools admin. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unless the Big 12 gets poached again there is only a non-zero chance SMU gets invited.

The knock on Memphis is they don’t bring the big things the current Big 12 teams want, a fertile recruiting ground and a major market. Florida brings that which is why USF has a better shot than Memphis in almost every latest scenario. Colorado st. is different in that alot of the legacy schools desperately want a school in Colorado again. Colorado St. gives them the potential to get a presence in Colorado again along with a good travel partner for BYU, plus a great market.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

I'm so tired of people saying travel partner for schools that are 7+ hours apart by bus. CSU is not a travel partner for BYU. Flights are required to get to both and between the two. Once you step on a plane, the word travel partner is gone.

Travel partner would be like UCF and usf that are 2 hours apart. You can fly your women's volleyball and softball teams into Orlando, play against UCF, then hop on a quick bus ride to Tampa to play usf and fly home out of Tampa. That is what a real travel partner looks like. Two schools close enough to lower the burden of travels costs to play them in the same trip.

I mean you’re not wrong, but traveling in the same timezone is still better than traveling possibly two time zones away.


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(01-24-2022 10:12 AM)UAB Schnauzer Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 11:10 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 09:31 AM)tigerfan39 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 11:08 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 10:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  Except, none of them will make the decisions on whether to expand or who to add.
I am happy to see SMU, USF and any other school in this conference spending and improving facilities regardless of whether they end up in Big12 or not.

I know the fans don’t necessarily make the decisions. But those fans more than likely share the mentality of their schools admin. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unless the Big 12 gets poached again there is only a non-zero chance SMU gets invited.

The knock on Memphis is they don’t bring the big things the current Big 12 teams want, a fertile recruiting ground and a major market. Florida brings that which is why USF has a better shot than Memphis in almost every latest scenario. Colorado st. is different in that alot of the legacy schools desperately want a school in Colorado again. Colorado St. gives them the potential to get a presence in Colorado again along with a good travel partner for BYU, plus a great market.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

coming from a homer who can't spell a lot. it's not alot, bro.

The fact that your only retort is a critic on spelling is very telling.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

I think the word your looking for is critique

Sorry that’s my laziness showing again. Most of the time I’m just too lazy to actually proofread my posts. And it’s fun to watch the Karen’s get in a tizzy over minor spelling mistakes when they can’t think of a good reply.


Sent from the Warp via the ruinous powers of Chaos!

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

Facilities help but first and foremost you must win on the field unless you are big name like Texas or Notre Dame who would be taken regardless whether you are winning or not.
Regarding USF, I always knew that building an OCS would only happen if either a big donor appeared or a Power Conference required it. The fact that we are moving on it, tells me that USF was told that an OCS would help their cause. Would that alone get an invite? I think not, USF must win and I believe that the Scott extension also played into this, USF can’t afford a new coach and start from scratch and I think they have seen positives from Scott that this will lead to wins sooner than with a coaching change.
I don’t think USF is a lock, nor building an OCS be a lock, but I think the school being forced into this move will improve the program regardless of what conference it belongs.

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

The dirty truth is it’s a combination of alot of things. A good program is with terrible facilities is not attractive when compared to another good program with great facilities.

Then you have to go by the next data point, a classic I might add, location, location, location. If your school is out in the middle of bum fugging Egypt with no tv market or recruiting grounds what do you realistically bring to the table? SMU doesn’t bring a TV market or recruiting ground that isn’t already well covered by the Big 12. Now the size of the fan base and football history can make up for some of this, but SMU doesn’t have the first one and hasn’t had the second one since the pony express.

The next data point is success. Has your program had sustained periods of success recently. Has your program ever had major success. Ya you can invite a school that beings the first 2 data points but then you risk inviting another Rutgers or Vanderbilt.

The last data point is potential. What is the potential of SMU in a power conference over other possible candidates. When comparing SMU to USF in potential it’s not even close. USF blows SMU out of the water by a large margin. USF is in a great recruiting ground, a great TV market for the Big 12 to expand into, and a large fanbase that would attend games.

The only way SMU gets in is if either OSU or another Texas school is poached from the Big 12. Otherwise SMU needs to realize their future is somewhere else wherever that may be.


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(01-24-2022 11:39 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

Facilities help but first and foremost you must win on the field unless you are big name like Texas or Notre Dame who would be taken regardless whether you are winning or not.
Regarding USF, I always knew that building an OCS would only happen if either a big donor appeared or a Power Conference required it. The fact that we are moving on it, tells me that USF was told that an OCS would help their cause. Would that alone get an invite? I think not, USF must win and I believe that the Scott extension also played into this, USF can’t afford a new coach and start from scratch and I think they have seen positives from Scott that this will lead to wins sooner than with a coaching change.
I don’t think USF is a lock, nor building an OCS be a lock, but I think the school being forced into this move will improve the program regardless of what conference it belongs.

I understand usf's motivation. I think they were told build or you have little or no shot. But SMU's value is not in its facilities, but its location, history and frankly money. The facility must really be dumpy for them to throw this kind of money around. Either that or they are just flexing.

(01-24-2022 11:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

The dirty truth is it’s a combination of alot of things. A good program is with terrible facilities is not attractive when compared to another good program with great facilities.

Then you have to go by the next data point, a classic I might add, location, location, location. If your school is out in the middle of bum fugging Egypt with no tv market or recruiting grounds what do you realistically bring to the table? SMU doesn’t bring a TV market or recruiting ground that isn’t already well covered by the Big 12. Now the size of the fan base and football history can make up for some of this, but SMU doesn’t have the first one and hasn’t had the second one since the pony express.

The next data point is success. Has your program had sustained periods of success recently. Has your program ever had major success. Ya you can invite a school that beings the first 2 data points but then you risk inviting another Rutgers or Vanderbilt.

The last data point is potential. What is the potential of SMU in a power conference over other possible candidates. When comparing SMU to USF in potential it’s not even close. USF blows SMU out of the water by a large margin. USF is in a great recruiting ground, a great TV market for the Big 12 to expand into, and a large fanbase that would attend games.

The only way SMU gets in is if either OSU or another Texas school is poached from the Big 12. Otherwise SMU needs to realize their future is somewhere else wherever that may be.


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I would agree except for the power of politics and money. Too many times I have seen both usurp good sound business judgment.

(01-24-2022 12:44 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:39 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

Facilities help but first and foremost you must win on the field unless you are big name like Texas or Notre Dame who would be taken regardless whether you are winning or not.
Regarding USF, I always knew that building an OCS would only happen if either a big donor appeared or a Power Conference required it. The fact that we are moving on it, tells me that USF was told that an OCS would help their cause. Would that alone get an invite? I think not, USF must win and I believe that the Scott extension also played into this, USF can’t afford a new coach and start from scratch and I think they have seen positives from Scott that this will lead to wins sooner than with a coaching change.
I don’t think USF is a lock, nor building an OCS be a lock, but I think the school being forced into this move will improve the program regardless of what conference it belongs.

I understand usf's motivation. I think they were told build or you have little or no shot. But SMU's value is not in its facilities, but its location, history and frankly money. The facility must really be dumpy for them to throw this kind of money around. Either that or they are just flexing.

USF has to focus on itself and how to continue to improve. If it does that it will be ok. USF has many positive things to sell a conference, it just needs to get back to winning and it has proven in its past that it can win.

I've been to two games at Ford Stadium, and at no point in time while laid across multiple rows of stadium seating with a blanket and concessions around me did "expansion" of the stadium being necessary come to mind.

(01-24-2022 12:47 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

The dirty truth is it’s a combination of alot of things. A good program is with terrible facilities is not attractive when compared to another good program with great facilities.

Then you have to go by the next data point, a classic I might add, location, location, location. If your school is out in the middle of bum fugging Egypt with no tv market or recruiting grounds what do you realistically bring to the table? SMU doesn’t bring a TV market or recruiting ground that isn’t already well covered by the Big 12. Now the size of the fan base and football history can make up for some of this, but SMU doesn’t have the first one and hasn’t had the second one since the pony express.

The next data point is success. Has your program had sustained periods of success recently. Has your program ever had major success. Ya you can invite a school that beings the first 2 data points but then you risk inviting another Rutgers or Vanderbilt.

The last data point is potential. What is the potential of SMU in a power conference over other possible candidates. When comparing SMU to USF in potential it’s not even close. USF blows SMU out of the water by a large margin. USF is in a great recruiting ground, a great TV market for the Big 12 to expand into, and a large fanbase that would attend games.

The only way SMU gets in is if either OSU or another Texas school is poached from the Big 12. Otherwise SMU needs to realize their future is somewhere else wherever that may be.


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I would agree except for the power of politics and money. Too many times I have seen both usurp good sound business judgment.

Oh that’s definitely a factor but only to an extent. Harvard and Yale probably outshine every college in that respect. But no one is rushing to add them for the reasons I listed above.


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(01-24-2022 11:16 AM)MagicKnightmare Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 11:08 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 10:45 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-22-2022 12:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-21-2022 08:53 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  That does seem likely, and it might help get them into the Big 12. Certainly won't hurt.

It seems clear the Big 12 intends to add at least two by 2025 or 2027, and four by 2030 or so.

Memphis is the only shoo-in, but SMU is probably on the Big 12's short list, along with Boise St., USF, and the top MWC schools such as SDSU. They could be one of the first two to make the jump.

.

Actually if you spend time on the big 12 board and around the current teams in the big 12 almost none of them want Memphis anymore. It’s all about Colorado St. for BYU and possibly USF for UCF. But Memphis is a no and SMU is a better chance of every fan in the big 12 winning the lottery no.

But in general most of them have no interest in expanding at all unless there is guaranteed raise to the TV deal.


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Except, none of them will make the decisions on whether to expand or who to add.
I am happy to see SMU, USF and any other school in this conference spending and improving facilities regardless of whether they end up in Big12 or not.

I know the fans don’t necessarily make the decisions. But those fans more than likely share the mentality of their schools admin. And it doesn’t take a genius to realize that unless the Big 12 gets poached again there is only a non-zero chance SMU gets invited.

The knock on Memphis is they don’t bring the big things the current Big 12 teams want, a fertile recruiting ground and a major market. Florida brings that which is why USF has a better shot than Memphis in almost every latest scenario. Colorado st. is different in that alot of the legacy schools desperately want a school in Colorado again. Colorado St. gives them the potential to get a presence in Colorado again along with a good travel partner for BYU, plus a great market.


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I'm so tired of people saying travel partner for schools that are 7+ hours apart by bus. CSU is not a travel partner for BYU. Flights are required to get to both and between the two. Once you step on a plane, the word travel partner is gone.

Travel partner would be like UCF and usf that are 2 hours apart. You can fly your women's volleyball and softball teams into Orlando, play against UCF, then hop on a quick bus ride to Tampa to play usf and fly home out of Tampa. That is what a real travel partner looks like. Two schools close enough to lower the burden of travels costs to play them in the same trip.

Yeah, travel partners like SMU and TCU, both flying out of D/FW airport.

(01-24-2022 01:23 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 12:47 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

The dirty truth is it’s a combination of alot of things. A good program is with terrible facilities is not attractive when compared to another good program with great facilities.

Then you have to go by the next data point, a classic I might add, location, location, location. If your school is out in the middle of bum fugging Egypt with no tv market or recruiting grounds what do you realistically bring to the table? SMU doesn’t bring a TV market or recruiting ground that isn’t already well covered by the Big 12. Now the size of the fan base and football history can make up for some of this, but SMU doesn’t have the first one and hasn’t had the second one since the pony express.

The next data point is success. Has your program had sustained periods of success recently. Has your program ever had major success. Ya you can invite a school that beings the first 2 data points but then you risk inviting another Rutgers or Vanderbilt.

The last data point is potential. What is the potential of SMU in a power conference over other possible candidates. When comparing SMU to USF in potential it’s not even close. USF blows SMU out of the water by a large margin. USF is in a great recruiting ground, a great TV market for the Big 12 to expand into, and a large fanbase that would attend games.

The only way SMU gets in is if either OSU or another Texas school is poached from the Big 12. Otherwise SMU needs to realize their future is somewhere else wherever that may be.


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I would agree except for the power of politics and money. Too many times I have seen both usurp good sound business judgment.

Oh that’s definitely a factor but only to an extent. Harvard and Yale probably outshine every college in that respect. But no one is rushing to add them for the reasons I listed above.


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Yeah I don't think it matters much to Harvard or Yale. They like their place

(01-24-2022 01:58 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 01:23 PM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 12:47 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:47 AM)Westhoff123 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

The dirty truth is it’s a combination of alot of things. A good program is with terrible facilities is not attractive when compared to another good program with great facilities.

Then you have to go by the next data point, a classic I might add, location, location, location. If your school is out in the middle of bum fugging Egypt with no tv market or recruiting grounds what do you realistically bring to the table? SMU doesn’t bring a TV market or recruiting ground that isn’t already well covered by the Big 12. Now the size of the fan base and football history can make up for some of this, but SMU doesn’t have the first one and hasn’t had the second one since the pony express.

The next data point is success. Has your program had sustained periods of success recently. Has your program ever had major success. Ya you can invite a school that beings the first 2 data points but then you risk inviting another Rutgers or Vanderbilt.

The last data point is potential. What is the potential of SMU in a power conference over other possible candidates. When comparing SMU to USF in potential it’s not even close. USF blows SMU out of the water by a large margin. USF is in a great recruiting ground, a great TV market for the Big 12 to expand into, and a large fanbase that would attend games.

The only way SMU gets in is if either OSU or another Texas school is poached from the Big 12. Otherwise SMU needs to realize their future is somewhere else wherever that may be.


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I would agree except for the power of politics and money. Too many times I have seen both usurp good sound business judgment.

Oh that’s definitely a factor but only to an extent. Harvard and Yale probably outshine every college in that respect. But no one is rushing to add them for the reasons I listed above.


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Yeah I don't think it matters much to Harvard or Yale. They like their place

Im just saying though that wouldn’t be enough IF they decided they wanted to play big time football.


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(01-24-2022 01:00 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 12:44 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:39 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

Facilities help but first and foremost you must win on the field unless you are big name like Texas or Notre Dame who would be taken regardless whether you are winning or not.
Regarding USF, I always knew that building an OCS would only happen if either a big donor appeared or a Power Conference required it. The fact that we are moving on it, tells me that USF was told that an OCS would help their cause. Would that alone get an invite? I think not, USF must win and I believe that the Scott extension also played into this, USF can’t afford a new coach and start from scratch and I think they have seen positives from Scott that this will lead to wins sooner than with a coaching change.
I don’t think USF is a lock, nor building an OCS be a lock, but I think the school being forced into this move will improve the program regardless of what conference it belongs.

I understand usf's motivation. I think they were told build or you have little or no shot. But SMU's value is not in its facilities, but its location, history and frankly money. The facility must really be dumpy for them to throw this kind of money around. Either that or they are just flexing.

USF has to focus on itself and how to continue to improve. If it does that it will be ok. USF has many positive things to sell a conference, it just needs to get back to winning and it has proven in its past that it can win.

Agree, If a conf wants G5 program, USF has as much to sell as anyone.

(01-24-2022 04:52 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 01:00 PM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 12:44 PM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:39 AM)Cubanbull1 Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 11:05 AM)Noise Penalty Wrote:  So this sparks a question. Can you facility upgrade your way into the B12? Right now SMU and USF have discussed serious upgrades to facilities which can only be for the purpose of becoming a more attractive candidate for the B12. SMU has the money no doubt. Their boosters are big time. USF not as much. But will it be enough? If you do not show the support from the fans what difference does it make? SMU has just under 12,000 students. How many realistically can they get to a game? Then where do the rest of the fans come from?

USF has 50,000 students. If they get on campus their possible upside for a facility upgrade is much higher than SMU. They don't have the same financial as SMU (who does) and have more to lose if the bid to a new conference is unsuccessful.

Does the quality of the facility matter? I have never been to SMU but it seems like a nice enough place. Nothing super special, but not anything that needs 100 million dollars.

I understand usf's focus much more than SMU. SMU has a facility on campus and few people go. usf needs an OCS to create the college atmosphere to tap into their biggest asset which is the student body. Does anyone think that building new facilities means a lock to the B12 for any existing g5 program?

Facilities help but first and foremost you must win on the field unless you are big name like Texas or Notre Dame who would be taken regardless whether you are winning or not.
Regarding USF, I always knew that building an OCS would only happen if either a big donor appeared or a Power Conference required it. The fact that we are moving on it, tells me that USF was told that an OCS would help their cause. Would that alone get an invite? I think not, USF must win and I believe that the Scott extension also played into this, USF can’t afford a new coach and start from scratch and I think they have seen positives from Scott that this will lead to wins sooner than with a coaching change.
I don’t think USF is a lock, nor building an OCS be a lock, but I think the school being forced into this move will improve the program regardless of what conference it belongs.

I understand usf's motivation. I think they were told build or you have little or no shot. But SMU's value is not in its facilities, but its location, history and frankly money. The facility must really be dumpy for them to throw this kind of money around. Either that or they are just flexing.

USF has to focus on itself and how to continue to improve. If it does that it will be ok. USF has many positive things to sell a conference, it just needs to get back to winning and it has proven in its past that it can win.

Agree, If a conf wants G5 program, USF has as much to sell as anyone.

Funny how easy some forget where they came from.