(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

Chew on this for a moment or two:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina
Missouri, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee

Miami, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

(03-10-2022 06:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

Chew on this for a moment or two:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina
Missouri, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee

Miami, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

(03-10-2022 06:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

Chew on this for a moment or two:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina
Missouri, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee

Miami, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

Kentucky is not a large state, but it does strengthen the SEC where it is the weakest.
Plus it does give the SEC something that they do not have and needs desperately: a signature basketball game.
Even if Carolina were to join the SEC, Carolina/Kentucky would never replace Duke/Carolina as the premier event because the Heels would continue to play the Blue Devils regardless. If the SEC added both Duke and Carolina, it would relegate Kentucky to no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order which is a position the Wildcats and their fans would find unacceptable.

(03-10-2022 08:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

Chew on this for a moment or two:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina
Missouri, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee

Miami, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

Kentucky is not a large state, but it does strengthen the SEC where it is the weakest.
Plus it does give the SEC something that they do not have and needs desperately: a signature basketball game.
Even if Carolina were to join the SEC, Carolina/Kentucky would never replace Duke/Carolina as the premier event because the Heels would continue to play the Blue Devils regardless. If the SEC added both Duke and Carolina, it would relegate Kentucky to no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order which is a position the Wildcats and their fans would find unacceptable.

I'm telling you, UNC, Duke, Virginia and a Florida school. Kentucky is Kentucky and isn't afraid of UNC or Duke. That move strengthens the SEC and kills the B1G's route South. ESPN merges the remaining B12 and ACC schools owns all of the rights and the only increase of significance is for the 4 new SEC schools. At pro rata 300 million with 2 possibly 3 national brands, more draw from Florida, and 20 million more in the footprint and Duke drawing New England and NYC eyeballs.

(03-10-2022 08:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

Chew on this for a moment or two:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina
Missouri, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee

Miami, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

Kentucky is not a large state, but it does strengthen the SEC where it is the weakest.
Plus it does give the SEC something that they do not have and needs desperately: a signature basketball game.
Even if Carolina were to join the SEC, Carolina/Kentucky would never replace Duke/Carolina as the premier event because the Heels would continue to play the Blue Devils regardless. If the SEC added both Duke and Carolina, it would relegate Kentucky to no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order which is a position the Wildcats and their fans would find unacceptable.

If the SEC really feels this way about competition, the Big Ten never has to worry about losing Ohio State. Then again, the SEC had no problem adding Oklahoma. They're no threat to the football schools?

(03-10-2022 08:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

Chew on this for a moment or two:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina
Missouri, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee

Miami, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

Kentucky is not a large state, but it does strengthen the SEC where it is the weakest.
Plus it does give the SEC something that they do not have and needs desperately: a signature basketball game.
Even if Carolina were to join the SEC, Carolina/Kentucky would never replace Duke/Carolina as the premier event because the Heels would continue to play the Blue Devils regardless. If the SEC added both Duke and Carolina, it would relegate Kentucky to no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order which is a position the Wildcats and their fans would find unacceptable.

I started feeling the same way JR felt about this, but XLance, you have me thinking!!!! I have to confess I am highly tempted to try something which you have hinted at while combining what JR has hinted at:

let's fuse the two together, shall we??? A little crazy, but let's say that the SEC goes for Louisville, UNC, and Duke. Vandy gets an Olympic sports only deal and plays in a weird ACC-AAC hybrid for football(more on that later). Where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke, and Louisville all rank, XLance??

(03-11-2022 01:45 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 08:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

Chew on this for a moment or two:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina
Missouri, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee

Miami, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

Kentucky is not a large state, but it does strengthen the SEC where it is the weakest.
Plus it does give the SEC something that they do not have and needs desperately: a signature basketball game.
Even if Carolina were to join the SEC, Carolina/Kentucky would never replace Duke/Carolina as the premier event because the Heels would continue to play the Blue Devils regardless. If the SEC added both Duke and Carolina, it would relegate Kentucky to no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order which is a position the Wildcats and their fans would find unacceptable.

I started feeling the same way JR felt about this, but XLance, you have me thinking!!!! I have to confess I am highly tempted to try something which you have hinted at while combining what JR has hinted at:

let's fuse the two together, shall we??? A little crazy, but let's say that the SEC goes for Louisville, UNC, and Duke. Vandy gets an Olympic sports only deal and plays in a weird ACC-AAC hybrid for football(more on that later). Where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke, and Louisville all rank, XLance??

I'm not sure I fully understand your question, re: where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke and Louisville rank?

I will say this: Carolina has more top ten finishes in the Learfield Cup competition than the rest of the ACC combined (including Notre Dame), and is one of only three schools to ever win the Cup.

(03-11-2022 08:57 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-11-2022 01:45 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 08:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:12 AM)XLance Wrote:  Chew on this for a moment or two:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, South Carolina
Missouri, Louisville, Kentucky, Tennessee

Miami, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, Duke, Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech
Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

Kentucky is not a large state, but it does strengthen the SEC where it is the weakest.
Plus it does give the SEC something that they do not have and needs desperately: a signature basketball game.
Even if Carolina were to join the SEC, Carolina/Kentucky would never replace Duke/Carolina as the premier event because the Heels would continue to play the Blue Devils regardless. If the SEC added both Duke and Carolina, it would relegate Kentucky to no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order which is a position the Wildcats and their fans would find unacceptable.

I started feeling the same way JR felt about this, but XLance, you have me thinking!!!! I have to confess I am highly tempted to try something which you have hinted at while combining what JR has hinted at:

let's fuse the two together, shall we??? A little crazy, but let's say that the SEC goes for Louisville, UNC, and Duke. Vandy gets an Olympic sports only deal and plays in a weird ACC-AAC hybrid for football(more on that later). Where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke, and Louisville all rank, XLance??

I'm not sure I fully understand your question, re: where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke and Louisville rank?

I will say this: Carolina has more top ten finishes in the Learfield Cup competition than the rest of the ACC combined (including Notre Dame), and is one of only three schools to ever win the Cup.

You were saying earlier that without Louisville, and with Carolina & Duke, Kentucky would be no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order. How would Louisville change things if they, Carolina, and Duke were added?? Obviously, Carolina sounds like #1. Why wouldn't Kentucky be 2

(03-11-2022 02:30 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-11-2022 08:57 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-11-2022 01:45 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 08:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

Kentucky is not a large state, but it does strengthen the SEC where it is the weakest.
Plus it does give the SEC something that they do not have and needs desperately: a signature basketball game.
Even if Carolina were to join the SEC, Carolina/Kentucky would never replace Duke/Carolina as the premier event because the Heels would continue to play the Blue Devils regardless. If the SEC added both Duke and Carolina, it would relegate Kentucky to no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order which is a position the Wildcats and their fans would find unacceptable.

I started feeling the same way JR felt about this, but XLance, you have me thinking!!!! I have to confess I am highly tempted to try something which you have hinted at while combining what JR has hinted at:

let's fuse the two together, shall we??? A little crazy, but let's say that the SEC goes for Louisville, UNC, and Duke. Vandy gets an Olympic sports only deal and plays in a weird ACC-AAC hybrid for football(more on that later). Where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke, and Louisville all rank, XLance??

I'm not sure I fully understand your question, re: where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke and Louisville rank?

I will say this: Carolina has more top ten finishes in the Learfield Cup competition than the rest of the ACC combined (including Notre Dame), and is one of only three schools to ever win the Cup.

You were saying earlier that without Louisville, and with Carolina & Duke, Kentucky would be no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order. How would Louisville change things if they, Carolina, and Duke were added?? Obviously, Carolina sounds like #1. Why wouldn't Kentucky be 2

Don't be fooled Kentucky's blood is bluer. They are easily #1 of that group. Look up natties and check revenue!

(03-11-2022 02:30 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-11-2022 08:57 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-11-2022 01:45 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 08:38 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 06:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I choked on and hurled that one a long time ago. Kentucky isn't a large state. Vandy is an academic bell cow.

Kentucky is not a large state, but it does strengthen the SEC where it is the weakest.
Plus it does give the SEC something that they do not have and needs desperately: a signature basketball game.
Even if Carolina were to join the SEC, Carolina/Kentucky would never replace Duke/Carolina as the premier event because the Heels would continue to play the Blue Devils regardless. If the SEC added both Duke and Carolina, it would relegate Kentucky to no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order which is a position the Wildcats and their fans would find unacceptable.

I started feeling the same way JR felt about this, but XLance, you have me thinking!!!! I have to confess I am highly tempted to try something which you have hinted at while combining what JR has hinted at:

let's fuse the two together, shall we??? A little crazy, but let's say that the SEC goes for Louisville, UNC, and Duke. Vandy gets an Olympic sports only deal and plays in a weird ACC-AAC hybrid for football(more on that later). Where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke, and Louisville all rank, XLance??

I'm not sure I fully understand your question, re: where do Kentucky, Carolina, Duke and Louisville rank?

I will say this: Carolina has more top ten finishes in the Learfield Cup competition than the rest of the ACC combined (including Notre Dame), and is one of only three schools to ever win the Cup.

You were saying earlier that without Louisville, and with Carolina & Duke, Kentucky would be no higher than third on the SEC basketball pecking order. How would Louisville change things if they, Carolina, and Duke were added?? Obviously, Carolina sounds like #1. Why wouldn't Kentucky be 2

Perhaps I wasn't clear.

The point was that if Duke and Carolina were to join the SEC, their game vs each other would become the #1 basketball match-up in that conference.
Kentucky as great a program as they are has never had a consistent challenger for basketball supremacy in the SEC like Duke has had Carolina. Louisville could be that foil, and as such could elevate both programs to an even higher stature.
The SEC has plenty of high profile football games, but they lack a signature basketball game.

So, Carolina-Duke & Louisville-Kentucky would be the premier basketball games of the SEC. Sounds about right!!!

(03-11-2022 04:37 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  So, Carolina-Duke & Louisville-Kentucky would be the premier basketball games of the SEC. Sounds about right!!!

If Louisville went to the SEC and Duke and Carolina didn't, the Kentucky v. Louisville games would quickly become the premiere basketball match-up in conference.

(03-11-2022 05:12 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-11-2022 04:37 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  So, Carolina-Duke & Louisville-Kentucky would be the premier basketball games of the SEC. Sounds about right!!!

If Louisville went to the SEC and Duke and Carolina didn't, the Kentucky v. Louisville games would quickly become the premiere basketball match-up in conference.

I'm talking about if all three (Carolina, Duke and Louisville)

(03-08-2022 03:54 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-08-2022 03:33 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2022 09:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  In the age of streaming, we've been told that live network TV wants events with an audience of 4 million or more. In football you have the highest likelihood of having this happen when a nationally recognized football school plays another of such standing.

If the 2 conferences earning well above the rest are secure which brands add value by driving the potential for 4 million viewers? Note we aren't talking top revenue earners, attendance leaders, or current rankings though all are quite likely present, just who is nationally known?

Football brands:

ACC: Florida State, Clemson, Miami
B12:
PAC12: Southern Cal, Washington, UCLA, Oregon, Stanford
Independent: Notre Dame

Basketball:

ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Syracuse, Viginia
B12: Kansas
PAC 12: UCLA, Arizona

If the Big 10 and SEC expand it will likely be from these schools. New Markets are a plus. National eyeballs a must.

Let's say that both the SEC and B1G moved to 20 how might that look?

SEC:
Preferences for Southern Flagships, academics and new markets a plus:
Duke, Miami/FSU, North Carolina, Virginia

Big 10:
Preferences for Land Grant AAU schools in contiguous states, new markets and flagship status preferred:

Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh/Syracuse, Virginia

Analysis: Duke, North Carolina and Virginia would be a stiff competition.
Kansas is the only flagship large state school which is contiguous. Duke, North Carolina and Virginia are not large but are AAU schools 2 of which are flagships and 1 which is elite academically. Notre Dame has long been a target. Pitt/Syracuse would be best available market additions.

An interesting competition.

I've just been going over your list again JR.
The more I look, the more it looks like the SEC may just stay where they are.
Looking at the ACC "football" schools it's likely that only Miami could afford to compete in the SEC since they have now enlisted a "sugar daddy".
My Clemson contacts suggest that they don't have enough money to compete with the deep pocket schools of the SEC.
Florida State's finances are in a mess. So much of their athletic department expenditure is run through their booster club, they really don't know how much money they are losing.
Carolina, Duke and Virginia have the funds to compete in the SEC, but not the desire.

But using your list for the benefit of ESPN; if the ACC traded Miami to the SEC for
Missouri this is what could happen:

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
LSU, Ole Miss, MSU, Alabama
Vandy, Kentucky, Tennessee, south Carolina
Miami, Florida, Georgia, Auburn

Kansas, Missouri, Louisville, Virginia Tech
BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia
Wake Forest, NC State, Clemson, Florida State
UVa, Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

I actually like this one X. The issue will be Missouri taking the hit.

Circling back to this configuration, JR.
Back in the day, when talking about the Big 12, it was said that all of the value in the Big 12 was centered in 4 schools (Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and West Virginia).
This configuration would allow the ACC and SEC to expand to the "classic" 16 school conference model that has so long been talked about while absorbing the "perceived value" of the Big 12.
This configuration is a bit of a stretch logistically, but it does re-connect the Kansas v. Missouri rivalry and the West Virginia v. Pitt series.
Travel may by an issue, however for the Kansas/Missouri pair because of distance and the only two schools in that configuration not in the ETZ.

Keeping the same 32, but moving Miami back to the ACC with South Carolina and returning Missouri and adding Kansas to the SEC (which would provide the SEC with it's own signature basketball series ((Kansas v. Kentucky)) and keep the conferences a little more geographical).

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Kansas, Missouri, LSU, Ole Miss
Florida, Georgia, Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

Boston College, Syracuse, Virginia, Carolina, Duke, South Carolina, Georgia Tech, Miami
Pitt, West Virginia, Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson, Florida State

A formula for income leveling could be worked out between Kansas and South Carolina for a period of time. In the long term some of South Carolina's losses would be made up of reduced travel expenses since they would have 6 schools within 3 hours of driving time as opposed to air travel.
This also keeps all of the ACC within the ETZ

If the SEC expanded big, with both football and basketball in mind:

Basketball Value: Duke, UNC, Louisville, Kansas
Football Value: Florida St, Clemson, Miami, VT

That would be a fearsome athletic consortium.

(03-14-2022 01:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the SEC expanded big, with both football and basketball in mind:

Basketball Value: Duke, UNC, Louisville, Kansas
Football Value: Florida St, Clemson, Miami, VT

That would be a fearsome athletic consortium.

And it would be relatively balanced.

(03-14-2022 01:01 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the SEC expanded big, with both football and basketball in mind:

Basketball Value: Duke, UNC, Louisville, Kansas
Football Value: Florida St, Clemson, Miami, VT

That would be a fearsome athletic consortium.

SEC + Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Kansas, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia Tech

B1G + PAC + Virginia

XII 11 + ACC 6 + East Carolina, Memphis, SMU, South Florida, Temple, Tulane, Tulsa

SEC
Central: Duke, Kentucky, Louisville, North Carolina, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech
East: Clemson, Florida, Florida St, Georgia, Miami, South Carolina
South: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Tennessee
West: Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

B1G
Central: Arizona St, Colorado, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Utah, Wisconsin
Midwest: Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St, Purdue, Rutgers, Virginia
Pacific: Arizona, California, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Washington, Washington St

XX
East: Central Florida, East Carolina, Georgia Tech, North Carolina St, South Florida, Wake Forest
North: Boston College, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Temple, West Virginia
South: Houston, Memphis, SMU, TCU, Tulane, Tulsa
West: Baylor, BYU, Iowa St, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech

I'd settle for one small change that leads to a big one. Surely, if they really put their mind to it, ESPN could facilitate a move of UNC and Virginia to the SEC by a deal in which those two pay relatively small exit fees from the ACC in exchange for reworking the onerous contract that league is currently stuck with.

Then, the P5 conferences separate from the rest of the FBS in a 69 team subdivision which includes an independent Notre Dame. The SEC is organized in two 9 team divisions:

SEC East:
Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee, UNC, Kentucky, Virginia

SEC West:
Oklahoma, LSU, Texas A&M, Mississippi St, Texas, Missouri, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Vanderbilt

The ACC realigns its divisions:
South (ACC): Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest
North (BE): Miami, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

Notre Dame agrees to play 6 games a year against ACC opponents, along with USC and Stanford, Navy and one game each vs the B1G, Big 12 and SEC

All 69 schools agree to schedule at least 10 games a year within their subdivision and no games against FCS opponents.

The B1G and SEC both have a four team post season tourney: East #1 plays West #2 and West #1 plays East #2. The other three conferences have a two team CCG. From the pool of teams not in a CCT (including Notre Dame), the two highest ranked play a wild card game. The two winners from the B1G and SEC games, plus the three champs from the other three conferences (B12, ACC and PAC) and the winner of the wild card game then have an 8 team playoff starting with four of the NY6 bowls.

Rose Bowl: B1G #1 vs PAC champ.
Sugar Bowl: SEC #1 vs wild card winner
Fiesta Bowl: B12 champ vs SEC #2
Orange Bowl: ACC champ vs B1G #2

Semifinals at Jerry World (Cotton Bowl) and Mercedes-Benz Stadium (Peach Bowl). Those sites also host their regular NY bowl.

Finals rotate among the four NY Day sites.

After deducting $2 million per team for travel expenses for each of the 7 playoff games, net playoff revenues are split 20% to the G5 schools (who divide their share equally) and 80% to the the P5 + ND teams which each get an equal share regardless of the outcome of the games.

The G5 subdivision can have its own playoff, which ESPN schedules in a way to maximize exposure without directly competing with the P5 playoff.

Minimal realignment moves and rational subdivisions.

(03-14-2022 08:22 PM)ken d Wrote:  I'd settle for one small change that leads to a big one. Surely, if they really put their mind to it, ESPN could facilitate a move of UNC and Virginia to the SEC by a deal in which those two pay relatively small exit fees from the ACC in exchange for reworking the onerous contract that league is currently stuck with.

Then, the P5 conferences separate from the rest of the FBS in a 69 team subdivision which includes an independent Notre Dame. The SEC is organized in two 9 team divisions:

SEC East:
Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee, UNC, Kentucky, Virginia

SEC West:
Oklahoma, LSU, Texas A&M, Mississippi St, Texas, Missouri, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Vanderbilt

The ACC realigns its divisions:
South (ACC): Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest
North (BE): Miami, Louisville, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College

Notre Dame agrees to play 6 games a year against ACC opponents, along with USC and Stanford, Navy and one game each vs the B1G, Big 12 and SEC

All 69 schools agree to schedule at least 10 games a year within their subdivision and no games against FCS opponents.

The B1G and SEC both have a four team post season tourney: East #1 plays West #2 and West #1 plays East #2. The other three conferences have a two team CCG. From the pool of teams not in a CCT (including Notre Dame), the two highest ranked play a wild card game. The two winners from the B1G and SEC games, plus the three champs from the other three conferences (B12, ACC and PAC) and the winner of the wild card game then have an 8 team playoff starting with four of the NY6 bowls.

Rose Bowl: B1G #1 vs PAC champ.
Sugar Bowl: SEC #1 vs wild card winner
Fiesta Bowl: B12 champ vs SEC #2
Orange Bowl: ACC champ vs B1G #2

Semifinals at Jerry World (Cotton Bowl) and Mercedes-Benz Stadium (Peach Bowl). Those sites also host their regular NY bowl.

Finals rotate among the four NY Day sites.

After deducting $2 million per team for travel expenses for each of the 7 playoff games, net playoff revenues are split 20% to the G5 schools (who divide their share equally) and 80% to the the P5 + ND teams which each get an equal share regardless of the outcome of the games.

The G5 subdivision can have its own playoff, which ESPN schedules in a way to maximize exposure without directly competing with the P5 playoff.

Minimal realignment moves and rational subdivisions.

Separating UNC and Duke would be grounds for malpractice. The schools have natural synergies, they increase the value of each other. UT-Austin has enough heft to take that type of risk…unless the situation is dire, UNC can’t afford to leave Duke behind.

I think we might be missing what ESPN really wants to do now, follow me for a minute....

Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC... ESPN win
Alliance blocks expanded playoff... ESPN loss
B1G TV contract, If ESPN got it, checkmate game over. Unfortunately for the mouse it sounds like FOX and CBS might win this battle... So what's the move?

JR has said it's a movement of the best pieces of the ACC to block the B1G, I agree. What I don't agree with is that the mouse would then want to combine the remnants of the ACC with the NB12. I offer an alternative... ESPN wants to get the westcoast and Kliavkoff wants the mouse.

When the B1G has finished negotiating their contract there is still gong to be money on the table because of the multiple networks bidding on their product. I think ESPN wants coast to coast time slots and the ability to isolate the B1G. What better way to make this happen than to pay the PAC to absorb the key members of the NB12.

With the best of the ACC absorbed by the SEC, and the best of the remaining BigXII added to the PAC... they own every time slot, added the conference with more national championships than anyone, and most importantly you add 9 of the top 30 TV markets in the country. I think adding 1/3 of the TV markets with over 1million TV sets to ESPN's lineup would be huge for them.

https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs...Report.pdf

I truly believe Jim Phillips and the ACC signed their own death warrant going against the mouse and the CFP, SEC will take care of that. The B1G and ESPN have never quite seen eye to eye so what better way to stick it to the B1G than to recruit their closest Ally. It makes to much sense.