(06-17-2022 10:40 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:54 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 11:02 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 10:08 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would add West Virginia

Only when ND joins in full.....








So never.

See, I disagree with this line of thinking. To me, you have to ASSUME that Notre Dame is unavailable and proceed with whatever moves you have to increase revenue. After ND, the best move for the ACC is to add WVU (and, possibly, a team or 3 from Texas).

I see your point but would the ESPN pay more (per team) for WVU? And is WVU the best realistic expansion candidate in terms of the revenue increase? I thought Cincy or Texas schools would add more revenue.

I think they would pay more, but the ACC may need to improve internally first.

(06-17-2022 05:56 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 05:46 PM)Schema Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 05:34 PM)green Wrote:  notre dame puts on airs ...
but they’re in the same boat ...

YOU JUST ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION

The ACC is stuck in a deal that ends in 2036. Notre Dame has a deal that ends in 2025. They at least have an opportunity to improve their financial situation much, much sooner than the ACC. Now, would joining the ACC bring them more money than they will be able to get on their own? Perhaps. However, it wouldn't be enough for them to give up their independence, especially when they will have improved access to the playoffs in 2027 and beyond.

I realize you know all of this and you just like to have fun on these boards.

how do you know ...

THE $64,000 QUESTION

You need to add 3 zeros and then multiply by 1.25

(06-17-2022 03:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 01:26 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:54 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...you have to ASSUME that Notre Dame is unavailable and proceed with whatever moves you have to increase revenue. After ND, the best move for the ACC is to add WVU (and, possibly, a team or 3 from Texas).

I beg to differ ...
even true believers like TerryD concede ...
conference affiliation unavoidable ...

RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY

Unavoidable, maybe, but that doesn't mean it will be the ACC (and if it is, picking #16 won't matter one way or the other - whatever moves ND to give up football independence will be much stronger than their desire to play Navy every year!).

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status...6201482241

IF NOT US WHO

Certainly on paper the ACC is the best all-sports fit for Notre Dame; the ACC offers Atlantic seaboard exposure, similar institutions, and existing rivalries. If they just want the most money, then the SEC makes more sense than the Big Ten because of the schedule diversity.

I’m not worried about it, and this is the age old argument being had with ND fans that want to be Independent.

It’s like trying to convince me WVU and Cincinnati should be added, lol, you’re not changing my mind. Either would have been a fine replacement for Louisville—no offense Redbirds, I’m happy with y’all—but it shook out the way it did.

To answer the original question: absolutely get rid of divisions. This is a conference that hasn’t wanted divisions since 2003.

(06-17-2022 10:40 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:54 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 11:02 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 10:08 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would add West Virginia

Only when ND joins in full.....

















So never.

See, I disagree with this line of thinking. To me, you have to ASSUME that Notre Dame is unavailable and proceed with whatever moves you have to increase revenue. After ND, the best move for the ACC is to add WVU (and, possibly, a team or 3 from Texas).

I see your point but would the ESPN pay more (per team) for WVU? And is WVU the best realistic expansion candidate in terms of the revenue increase? I thought Cincy or Texas schools would add more revenue.

1-ESPN wouldn't pay the ACC any less per team to add West Virginia and if viewership grows because of their addition would probably pay more per team.
2-ESPN may be hesitant to add Cincinnati if it might make the B1G angry. ESPN would not want to do anything to jeopardize access to B1G broadcasts.
3-ESPN may want to keep the ACC as an all ETZ conference for broadcast scheduling ease. The ACC is the only major conference where all of it's teams are in the same time zone.

I agree with the OP and his remarks about giving in to ESPN with what they would truly want with no additional pay. It’s exactly like the old saying “ WHY pay for the milk when you can get the cow for free??? “ ESPN knows they will get a better alignment of games once divisions go away, and this stupid look in that Swordford implemented into the contract in hopes to gain value bit the conference in the ass.

The only way IMO you are going to get Notre Dame to join in is to go against the grain of payouts per team as where the conference it self will have to cut its split as well. Make a tier system payout that makes each school work harder for the overall top payout instead of paying each school equally. I mean what’s the difference in say Notre Dame is in the ACC is the top dog of the conference goes to the playoffs and wins the National title when in the end of the day their payout is the exact same as say last place Boston College??? Make it where the top school is getting SEC dollars and then scaling back for each place school to where the last place school get a check but something that pays out enough to keep the lights on competitively more so than G5 schools who wished they were getting that payout.

Bring Notre Dame in bring West Virginia to be the conference bad boy school perse bring Cincinnati for these are the only schools within the footprint that makes sense. Yes we could go after Centeal Florida as well but don’t think FSU and Miami wants that. I guess you can bring Navy in and pay them the equivalent of say 2million guaranteed per game played within the ACC and that payment should come out of the conference cut if they don’t agree on scaling back.

No one IMO is going to sign up for nothing In Return and we need to prioritize what we have currently. I think some sort of scale tier system is the way to go which should make for way better product across the board with all teams amongst the conference. Just spit balling here nothing but some wishful thinking.

(06-18-2022 07:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 10:40 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:54 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 11:02 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 10:08 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would add West Virginia

Only when ND joins in full.....

















So never.

See, I disagree with this line of thinking. To me, you have to ASSUME that Notre Dame is unavailable and proceed with whatever moves you have to increase revenue. After ND, the best move for the ACC is to add WVU (and, possibly, a team or 3 from Texas).

I see your point but would the ESPN pay more (per team) for WVU? And is WVU the best realistic expansion candidate in terms of the revenue increase? I thought Cincy or Texas schools would add more revenue.

1-ESPN wouldn't pay the ACC any less per team to add West Virginia and if viewership grows because of their addition would probably pay more per team.
2-ESPN may be hesitant to add Cincinnati if it might make the B1G angry. ESPN would not want to do anything to jeopardize access to B1G broadcasts.
3-ESPN may want to keep the ACC as an all ETZ conference for broadcast scheduling ease. The ACC is the only major conference where all of it's teams are in the same time zone.

Regarding your point #1, why would Tobacco road schools want WVU if the money is not much larger? The ACC had a plenty of chance to add WVU when it was doing well in the Big East. WVU is doing worse now and its state is losing people. Its head coach moved to Houston (G5 team back then). Do we really want this school?

Regarding your point #2, what if the ESPN doesn’t get anything for the next Big Ten media deal? It’s not highly likely but still possible. And if that happens, getting Cincy would be a good move for the ESPN to enter Ohio (and to make the BIG angry).

Regarding your point #3, I am curious what the ESPN want to do with the B12. If the NB12’s asking price is too high or similar to what the ACC is receiving, moving some B12 schools to the ACC/P12 may make sense for the ESPN.

The gate increase from seeing a better variety of teams is probably worth more than the TV increase. Go divisionless ASAP.

10 P5 games might be worth something. I honestly thought 10 was already the deal.

(06-18-2022 01:04 PM)Crayton Wrote:  The gate increase from seeing a better variety of teams is probably worth more than the TV increase. Go divisionless ASAP.

10 P5 games might be worth something. I honestly thought 10 was already the deal.

I believe the current contract calls for 9 P5 games (8+1), although many schools play 10.

Divisionless scheduling makes sense, regardless of whether ESPN pays more. Divisions are making it hard to integrate all conference members. Scheduling with a 3 + 5/5 format would make the season more interesting.

With regards to expansion, ESPN would need to pay a lot of money for the ACC to consider an addition. ND football is the only exception…they have (and have had) an open invitation. .

(06-18-2022 07:02 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 03:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 01:26 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:54 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...you have to ASSUME that Notre Dame is unavailable and proceed with whatever moves you have to increase revenue. After ND, the best move for the ACC is to add WVU (and, possibly, a team or 3 from Texas).

I beg to differ ...
even true believers like TerryD concede ...
conference affiliation unavoidable ...

RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY

Unavoidable, maybe, but that doesn't mean it will be the ACC (and if it is, picking #16 won't matter one way or the other - whatever moves ND to give up football independence will be much stronger than their desire to play Navy every year!).

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status...6201482241

IF NOT US WHO

The Big Ten in 2036 or later.

Independent until then.

P.S. This might happen in 2025:

From The Athletic:


"And what of NBC? No doubt there were some Notre Dame fans whose eyebrows were raised when reports in the winter indicated that the Peacock network had interest in getting involved with the Big Ten, as an “exclusive home” — with its own times, stations and announcers set well in advance — was a huge part of the Irish’s selling point as an independent.

Notre Dame, however, likely would welcome the Big Ten with open arms. Sort of. The way Notre Dame sees it, a restructuring of its own NBC deal, which expires after the 2025-26 season, essentially would allow the Irish many of the financial benefits of being in the nation’s richest conference without any of the strings attached of being in an actual conference."

HAVE CAKE. EAT IT TOO.

To the OP’s question, I think the ESPN is willing to pay a little more but probably not enough to change the postion of certain schools that prefer the current divisional setup. If that is the case, Phillip’s job is to find a solutuon that is acceptable to the ESPN and to these schools so that the ACC can swith to the divisionless model and get a samll additonal payment.

(06-18-2022 06:42 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-18-2022 07:02 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 03:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 01:26 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:54 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...you have to ASSUME that Notre Dame is unavailable and proceed with whatever moves you have to increase revenue. After ND, the best move for the ACC is to add WVU (and, possibly, a team or 3 from Texas).

I beg to differ ...
even true believers like TerryD concede ...
conference affiliation unavoidable ...

RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY

Unavoidable, maybe, but that doesn't mean it will be the ACC (and if it is, picking #16 won't matter one way or the other - whatever moves ND to give up football independence will be much stronger than their desire to play Navy every year!).

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status...6201482241

IF NOT US WHO

The Big Ten in 2036 or later.

Independent until then.

P.S. This might happen in 2025:

From The Athletic:


"And what of NBC? No doubt there were some Notre Dame fans whose eyebrows were raised when reports in the winter indicated that the Peacock network had interest in getting involved with the Big Ten, as an “exclusive home” — with its own times, stations and announcers set well in advance — was a huge part of the Irish’s selling point as an independent.

Notre Dame, however, likely would welcome the Big Ten with open arms. Sort of. The way Notre Dame sees it, a restructuring of its own NBC deal, which expires after the 2025-26 season, essentially would allow the Irish many of the financial benefits of being in the nation’s richest conference without any of the strings attached of being in an actual conference."

HAVE CAKE. EAT IT TOO.

conclusory, counselor ...
or ...
a conclusion w/o evidence ...

IN LAYMAN’S TERMS

(05-15-2022 09:53 AM)green Wrote:  

(05-14-2022 06:28 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Yes that’s the question. If the revenue gap becomes a big issue (“seismic shift”), why wouldn’t they just get a better TV deal? They don’t even have to play eight ACC games. They could just get a TV deal with the ESPN (or whoever else) as a pseudo-independent (FIFY).

I don’t understand why it has to be a binary choice: joining the ACC or joining the BIG.

who in their right mind commits $100M/year for handful of college games ...
they may backslide ...
risk on risk off ...
left holding the bag ...
that said ...
sucker born every minute ...
but worth less without us ...
just a scheduling agreement ...
buyouts commonly occur ...
TerryD acting all tough ...

I AIN’T HERE TO PLAY NO GAMES

BEATING A DEAD HORSE

notre dame v. minnesota
“” v. indiana
“” v. purdue
“” v. northwestern
“” v. illinois
“” v. iowa
“” v. nebraska
“” v. runtgers
“” v. mary land

GO FOR IT

(06-18-2022 06:42 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-18-2022 07:02 AM)green Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 03:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 01:26 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:54 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...you have to ASSUME that Notre Dame is unavailable and proceed with whatever moves you have to increase revenue. After ND, the best move for the ACC is to add WVU (and, possibly, a team or 3 from Texas).

I beg to differ ...
even true believers like TerryD concede ...
conference affiliation unavoidable ...

RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY

Unavoidable, maybe, but that doesn't mean it will be the ACC (and if it is, picking #16 won't matter one way or the other - whatever moves ND to give up football independence will be much stronger than their desire to play Navy every year!).

https://twitter.com/dennisdoddcbs/status...6201482241

IF NOT US WHO

The Big Ten in 2036 or later.

Independent until then.

P.S. This might happen in 2025:

From The Athletic:


"And what of NBC? No doubt there were some Notre Dame fans whose eyebrows were raised when reports in the winter indicated that the Peacock network had interest in getting involved with the Big Ten, as an “exclusive home” — with its own times, stations and announcers set well in advance — was a huge part of the Irish’s selling point as an independent.

Notre Dame, however, likely would welcome the Big Ten with open arms. Sort of. The way Notre Dame sees it, a restructuring of its own NBC deal, which expires after the 2025-26 season, essentially would allow the Irish many of the financial benefits of being in the nation’s richest conference without any of the strings attached of being in an actual conference."

HAVE CAKE. EAT IT TOO.

Why am I not surprised!
We were warned that they couldn't be trusted.

3 Ways ACC can move forward:

1. Meander Along

2. Add Enough Value to Make a Difference (Add Teams)

3. Become Smaller and More Focused.

Details:

1. ACC will likely meander along for 14 years. Other than the proactive Big East invasion, that's what their history is. They are North Carolina centric. They tend to act slowly and react slowly. I see this as the main way forward for them. Wait out the NIL wars. Wait out the NCAA reorg. They need 11 or 12 votes to do just about anything. They can still generate occasional revenue increases by making incremental changes. I don't think they want to take the risk of making big proactive moves. But they will fall further behind the Big Ten and SEC. They could see this approach as a wait and see to what happens to College Sports. I assign the largest probability to this course of action.

2. ACC becomes very proactive and adds several teams (maybe 4 altogether) providing enough football value to change the media contract dynamic. Not Notre Dame. But perhaps teams such as Cincinnati, WVU, UCF. This is a very risky way forward and is not consistent with traditional ACC thinking. This approach would be aimed at improving the media contract meaningfully, but of course still not reaching SEC/B1G levels. The additional idea here would be to weaken the Big XII enough that other Big XII schools would get a reactionary callup to either SEC or Big Ten. Thus a virtual P4 is created. But honestly this is not the ACC way.
I really don't see this happening.

3. ACC gets smaller by incentivizing some of its teams to depart and working with TV partners to come up with a good departure package that works for the departing members and also improves the media payout for those that remain. Teams which could be jettisoned with incentives arranged by the ACC and TV partners include Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Pitt, and Louisville. This leaves a 9-member FB conference with perhaps quite a bit more TV appeal per team. I believe this approach is one that established ACC members could get behind and support. Basically it is buying out less desirable members. It is also a risky approach. But it leaves the ACC relatively strong. And the per-team payouts should rise a lot.

(06-19-2022 10:34 AM)IHAVETRIED Wrote:  3 Ways ACC can move forward:

1. Meander Along

2. Add Enough Value to Make a Difference (Add Teams)

3. Become Smaller and More Focused.

Details:

1. ACC will likely meander along for 14 years. Other than the proactive Big East invasion, that's what their history is. They are North Carolina centric. They tend to act slowly and react slowly. I see this as the main way forward for them. Wait out the NIL wars. Wait out the NCAA reorg. They need 11 or 12 votes to do just about anything. They can still generate occasional revenue increases by making incremental changes. I don't think they want to take the risk of making big proactive moves. But they will fall further behind the Big Ten and SEC. They could see this approach as a wait and see to what happens to College Sports. I assign the largest probability to this course of action.

2. ACC becomes very proactive and adds several teams (maybe 4 altogether) providing enough football value to change the media contract dynamic. Not Notre Dame. But perhaps teams such as Cincinnati, WVU, UCF. This is a very risky way forward and is not consistent with traditional ACC thinking. This approach would be aimed at improving the media contract meaningfully, but of course still not reaching SEC/B1G levels. The additional idea here would be to weaken the Big XII enough that other Big XII schools would get a reactionary callup to either SEC or Big Ten. Thus a virtual P4 is created. But honestly this is not the ACC way.
I really don't see this happening.

3. ACC gets smaller by incentivizing some of its teams to depart and working with TV partners to come up with a good departure package that works for the departing members and also improves the media payout for those that remain. Teams which could be jettisoned with incentives arranged by the ACC and TV partners include Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Pitt, and Louisville. This leaves a 9-member FB conference with perhaps quite a bit more TV appeal per team. I believe this approach is one that established ACC members could get behind and support. Basically it is buying out less desirable members. It is also a risky approach. But it leaves the ACC relatively strong. And the per-team payouts should rise a lot.

This post doesn't fit this thread but anyway, the only real option here is meander along.

There's no way the ACC goes to 18 when no one else has. It's more likely that both the ACC and B1G stay put at 14 until ND decides if it's going to join a conference. That leaves only the SEC and maybe the B12 at 16-teams. Expansion without ND does not raise the average payouts.

There has never been a situation where conferences pay members to leave or drop football and I don't expect there ever will be. If teams leave the ACC or drop football it will be their own decision and based on what's coming with P4P and probable reduced fan interest.... it could happen.

BTW - Pitt won the ACC last year in football. And a large part of the reason we even have an ACCN is because BC, Cuse and Pitt are in the league. You can bet ESPN wouldn't incentivize their departure.

(06-18-2022 05:38 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 10:40 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 12:54 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 11:02 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(06-17-2022 10:08 AM)bluesox Wrote:  I would add West Virginia

Only when ND joins in full.....








So never.

See, I disagree with this line of thinking. To me, you have to ASSUME that Notre Dame is unavailable and proceed with whatever moves you have to increase revenue. After ND, the best move for the ACC is to add WVU (and, possibly, a team or 3 from Texas).

I see your point but would the ESPN pay more (per team) for WVU? And is WVU the best realistic expansion candidate in terms of the revenue increase? I thought Cincy or Texas schools would add more revenue.

I think they would pay more, but the ACC may need to improve internally first.

So I checked WVU’s 2021 TV rating and their numbers were not bad.
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college...v-ratings/

WVU-OU game at 7PM on ABC drew more than 4.5 million viewers while 3.8 million people warched Cincy-ND game at 2PM on NBC.

VT-WVU at 12PM on FS1 had 932K viewers, which is actually decent compared to other FS1 games.

Iowa St and OK St also have good ratings, which is consistent with Wahoowa84’s study on previous years.

Still, I don’t think WVU will increase the average payout in a meaningful way.