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ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #41
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-07-2022 12:40 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(07-07-2022 12:33 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(07-06-2022 11:09 PM)NoQuarterBrigade Wrote:  The PAC and the ACC should merge together to form a truly unique intercoastal conference. A partnership is not as strong as a full merger.

It would firmly establish them as the third best conference and put the Big XII in fourth. It’s all about survival. Eat or be eaten. The Big XII is trying to grab some of those PAC 12 schools now.

The ACC and PAC member institutions are more similar academically than the Big XII.

If the ACC loses 2-4 schools to realignment, it would still be the third best conference merged with the PAC. There could be an Atlantic and Pacific division and most of the schools would still play similar schedules to the ones they play today with some crossovers.

The ACC needs to act now.
If they do that I pray that gives a out to us. Ridiculous, if USC an UCLA were still there maybe . But the reactive ACC is always missing opportunities.

If it wasn't for the ACC you'd be playing with yourselves in 2020. So now you wanna run off and join the conference that conspired against your grandfather?

Well Mark, they could always join the conference that shot at their great, great, grandfathers! See. They have options!
07-07-2022 01:11 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #42
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-07-2022 12:33 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  If they do that I pray that gives a out to us. Ridiculous, if USC an UCLA were still there maybe. But the reactive ACC is always missing opportunities.

The Big Ten has 14 members. The Big 12 has 10 members. Teams from Indiana and Kentucky play in a conference called The Atlantic Coast. Teams from Los Angeles will soon travel to Piscataway, NJ for conference games.

Yet you have a problem with two conferences sharing a TV Rights Deal and playing out of conference games against each other… OK 07-coffee3
07-07-2022 04:39 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #43
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-07-2022 01:11 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-07-2022 12:40 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(07-07-2022 12:33 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(07-06-2022 11:09 PM)NoQuarterBrigade Wrote:  The PAC and the ACC should merge together to form a truly unique intercoastal conference. A partnership is not as strong as a full merger.

It would firmly establish them as the third best conference and put the Big XII in fourth. It’s all about survival. Eat or be eaten. The Big XII is trying to grab some of those PAC 12 schools now.

The ACC and PAC member institutions are more similar academically than the Big XII.

If the ACC loses 2-4 schools to realignment, it would still be the third best conference merged with the PAC. There could be an Atlantic and Pacific division and most of the schools would still play similar schedules to the ones they play today with some crossovers.

The ACC needs to act now.
If they do that I pray that gives a out to us. Ridiculous, if USC an UCLA were still there maybe . But the reactive ACC is always missing opportunities.

If it wasn't for the ACC you'd be playing with yourselves in 2020. So now you wanna run off and join the conference that conspired against your grandfather?

Well Mark, they could always join the conference that shot at their great, great, grandfathers! See. They have options!


My grandfathers (and grandmothers) were born and raised in Ireland and Germany respectively, so there is that.

No Rebels shot at them. Well, the Brits may have shot at Grandpa. He may even have shot back.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2022 05:54 AM by TerryD.)
07-07-2022 05:51 AM
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Ragu Offline
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Post: #44
ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
So the remaining PAC teams would get a bump in pay and more exposure without having to sign a GOR that locks in their rights and limits their options ? What a pile of bs from ESPN and the acc if true ....

No interest in hodge podged lower level conferences. Hopefully this is ESPN working with the acc left behind and teams like FSU get out of the acc

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07-07-2022 06:23 AM
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GTFletch Offline
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Post: #45
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
What to like about a potential ACC and Pac-12 partnership:

1. Stabilizes the Pac-12, keeps its remaining 10 members together, and gives the conference media rights negotiations a boost.
2. Positions the Pac-12/ACC solidly as the No. 3 entity in the new landscape vs. being left out.
3. Fosters interesting and marketable crossover matchups in football (Clemson, Miami, Florida State) and men’s basketball (Duke and North Carolina).

What not to like:

1. The last “alliance” situation led to a gut punch and I don’t think all the ACC programs are going to be thrilled about being dragged into it.
2. A Pac-12/ACC tandem doesn’t scare the Big Ten and SEC.
3. The geography isn’t ideal.

Extras info:
1. The Pac-12’s media markets — without Los Angeles — now include a total of about 13 million households. The Southern California footprint was worth 5.5 million television homes.

2. Former Nebraska, Washington State and Oregon AD Bill Moos on Tuesday. He expects USC and UCLA to get a wake-up call in the Big Ten. Said Moos: “Those are big stadiums, big traditions, lots of championships, there will be great competition, but it’s hard for me to see that there’s going to be a lot of 10-win seasons. Probably going to be more like seven or eight (wins).”

3. Arizona, ASU, Utah and Colorado appear to be interested in what they’re hearing from Pac-12 Commissioner George Kliavkoff. An AD at one of those schools told me there was no scheduled meeting with the Big 12 this week and added, “George is kicking ass.”

4. It’s possible that Apple or Amazon or one of the other streamers gets in on the 30-day negotiating window that was opened by the Pac-12. That said, I think streaming remains a secondary option for the conference. The whisper is that the current Pac-12 Networks content is likely to land on a streaming option but the Tier 1 football and men’s basketball games feel like they’re headed to ESPN.

5. Don’t expect ESPN and Fox to share Pac-12 football games as they have in the past. The former Fox president, Thompson, told me: “Fox was probably pretty ticked when Texas and Oklahoma announced the move to the SEC and I imagine they believe ESPN was behind it. I think the days of Fox and ESPN partnering on things like the Big 12 and Pac-12 are probably over for now.”


Link
https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzano-pa...back?sd=pf
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2022 11:06 AM by GTFletch.)
07-18-2022 11:02 AM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #46
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
Does anyone have an access to the ESPN plus content?

It seems like the ACC may offer a membership without requiring signing the GoR, but I don’t have a subscription to read the full content.

Or, perhaps, allowing schools to not sign one could be a negotiating play.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/in...ant-rights
07-18-2022 03:20 PM
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AeroWolf Offline
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Post: #47
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 03:20 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Does anyone have an access to the ESPN plus content?

It seems like the ACC may offer a membership without requiring signing the GoR, but I don’t have a subscription to read the full content.

Or, perhaps, allowing schools to not sign one could be a negotiating play.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/in...ant-rights

As Requested, from the link,

Only in times of chaos in college sports does the wonky jargon grant of rights intersect with mainstream conversation. Perhaps no factor looms larger for the future of the entire enterprise of college athletics than the consequences that come with signing -- or the potential need to sign -- a grant of rights.

A grant of rights is a legal term that comes up in the college landscape almost exclusively during times of conference realignment. The definition of the term itself is a fitting duality -- both simple and complicated -- considering how differently the grants are being viewed amid the latest starburst of realignment in 2022.

By extending their grant of rights in 2016, ACC schools did what the legal phrase says: They granted the rights to all their home games to the ACC until the league's television contract with ESPN expires in 2036. After granting them, schools are finding complications in the legal quagmire of the exploration of getting them back.

There has already been an extreme amount of analysis by multiple schools' general counsels examining the legal strength of the document, though one source familiar with one of those studies said there "doesn't appear to be much wiggle room" for schools eager to depart.

In the ACC, the grant of rights looms largest because of the 14 seasons that remain on the contract. The per-team estimated payouts project to hundreds of millions less over that span than teams in the Big Ten and SEC. The ACC should be about $40 million per team in upcoming years. The Big Ten and SEC should be north of $70 million in the early years of their upcoming deals, as the Big Ten is difficult to predict until it gets signed in the coming weeks. How big that gap grows -- and there's always variance with league success -- will only amplify the angst in the ACC.

Any conversation about future ACC members, departing ACC members or unhappy ACC members all links back to the length and strength of that grant of rights.

For the ACC, the grant of rights serves as the ultimate paradox -- the glue holding the ACC together but also a wedge threatening to divide the league. The grant of rights serves to protect or suffocate, depending on whether your chair is at Syracuse or Clemson. It is the golden handcuffs that represent either long-term financial security or financial inequity.

The grant of rights was designed to bond the schools through equal revenue share for two decades and to end realignment speculation. But with the top brands Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina, Miami and Virginia all worried about the financial gap for the next 14 years, there are schools at the top feeling trapped. (Or those who've been at the top in the past and expect to return.)

The grant of rights is being hailed by ACC officials behind the scenes as an ironclad bond of commitment. But there's also a bottom-line reality that counters that: It would be naive to think that no school will challenge it within the next 14 years if the financials in the league don't change. While there's no known legal precedent in college sports for going to court to break a grant of rights, the only variable seemingly is time before someone in the ACC begins a risky game of financial roulette that comes after an exit fee that is projected to be nearly $120 million per school.

It's one math problem or another. Can you afford to stay in the ACC and fall behind? Or would the cost be more significant by trying to fight your way out?

It's not just the ACC's future that revolves around the grant of rights. The safest predictor of what happens next in realignment is that grants of rights will loom as a large factor in the deal. (Or, perhaps, allowing schools to not sign one could be a negotiating play).

Here's a peek at what's next in realignment and how grants of rights can factor in.


What happens out West?
In the Pac-12, the expiration of the grant of rights running congruent with the current television deal in two years gave USC and UCLA the freedom to jump to the Big Ten.

And that hasn't gone unnoticed by Oregon and Washington, which both strongly desire a new address amid the financial excess of the Big Ten. With the TV deal expiring soon, the Ducks and Huskies are going to have to commit somewhere in the near future. And that's where a grant of rights will loom over the future of television football in the West outside of Los Angeles.

Both schools certainly would be hesitant to sign up for a lengthy grant of rights in the current league or elsewhere, as there's no chance the money would come close to what they hope to get in the Big Ten. For those schools, the grant of rights could be a tether, leverage point or perhaps even a negotiating tactic.

Executives around the realignment campfire are all saying that we're in a period of calm after the jarring move of USC and UCLA to the Big Ten. That's correct until it isn't. And the unknown variable is time, which could mean weeks, months or years.

It's important to remember that USC wasn't eager to have Oregon in the league, hence no invitation in Round 1. Considering that USC and UCLA are both expected to deliver only slightly more than a full share to the Big Ten, it's reasonable to project that the Pacific Northwest schools would cost the Big Ten money to add. Not a lot of moves in the history of college sports have been done to lose money.

This is where the financial gap to the "Power 2" of the Big Ten and SEC has gotten so big that even a small chance to join one of those leagues needs to be kept open. So how does that get addressed in negotiations? That's where things will get interesting, as it's hard to imagine the Big Ten wanting Oregon and Washington imminently but seemingly just as difficult to project a pair of 20-team Power 2 leagues without them.

Who pushes the button?
In realignment, the only constant is change, which makes it hard to imagine that both the Big Ten and SEC won't jump from 16 to 20 teams in the next five years. So what's the impetus for the next move?

It's quite plausible that both the SEC and Big Ten are set at 16 teams for now. It's equally plausible that they're only likely to move if they anticipate the other league moving. So they watch -- "Spy vs. Spy" -- with binoculars from Birmingham, Alabama, to suburban Chicago. It's a cold war with little trust between either side and two competitive television networks as the primary revenue sources behind the leagues.

The SEC might not be eager to add a school like Clemson, Miami or Florida State because the league already has a presence in those states. There's also the legal thicket of the grant of rights. But the SEC also likely wouldn't be eager for one of those schools to go to the Big Ten. Hence, the binoculars are perched.

The most likely course of action for the ACC -- see below -- is selective expansion. If the ACC wanted to add a Western wing and required a grant of rights from Oregon and Washington, would that change the Big Ten's mind? Again, it's hard to imagine those two schools not in someone's long-term plan.

What if the Pac-12 stayed together and signed a 10-year deal with a grant of rights? Would the Big Ten feel good about not adding those properties for a decade? It's clear Oregon and Washington want to get across the moat to a Power 2 league, and the SEC doesn't feel like it would mean more in Eugene or Seattle. So how good would the offer need to be from the Pac-12 or ACC to take Oregon and Washington off the table for an extended period? The Pac-12 would likely have to offer them unequal revenue share, which has been a proven conference killer in past decades, with the Big 12's bickering as the prime example.

One of the few things uniting the Power 2 leagues right now is that neither wants anything to do with the legal untangling that would come with breaking a grant of rights. The unofficial posture of both leagues, if they ever were to take an ACC school in the near future, would be -- well, you figure all that out. Then come approach us.

What will the ACC do next?
Conference officials are waiting on a bevy of numbers from consultants. There's the scheduling arrangement with the Pac-12, which has virtually no chance to have the financial clout to get traction.

The next logical move would be selective expansion, which combined with some type of creative revenue sharing could help the schools that are most anxious about the revenue gap with the Big Ten and SEC. The timing of how the ACC addresses that and the size of the gap are likely going to determine the league's future. (Is it enough that the potential of joining another league without the rights to home games -- depending on legal gymnastics -- would seem off-putting?)

The Pac-12 schools in prime markets are the obvious ACC target, as it's unlikely any TV entity is going to come in and bid high on the league now that they are vulnerable and lack the Los Angeles market. (Adding San Diego State and Boise State, which both seem like obvious choices, still doesn't move the financial needle.)

Whatever financial estimates the Pac-12 schools get amid their current open negotiating window will inevitably underwhelm. Does that allow the ACC to make a targeted strike to take the best available from the Pac-12 -- Oregon, Washington, Stanford and California -- and then take either two or four others? Those could be either two or all of these -- Arizona State, Colorado, TCU, Cincinnati -- to form a Western wing of the league.

The question would loom large whether this wing would want a 14-year commitment, similar to the current schools.

If the Pac-12 schools are tempted, it would seemingly bring a bigger annual payout to the San Francisco Bay Area and Pacific Northwest schools while trimming the fat that USC and UCLA wanted to escape. If those programs could come pro rata with the ACC, perhaps the extra ACC Network money from adding a flurry of big markets could create a pool of revenue that is distributed to the league's top performers. More revenue that's distributed unequally is the key for the ACC making sure the grant of rights doesn't drive the league apart.

Unequal revenue has been an ongoing ACC discussion, and amid these tense times of grant of rights examination, common sense would dictate the opportunity for more revenue for the winning teams.
North Carolina's run to the men's basketball national title game last year will earn the ACC $8 million in NCAA units over the next few years. What if half of that went to the Tar Heels instead of being divided evenly? What about the $6 million per year from Clemson's six straight College Football Playoff appearances? Do the Tigers still get an equal share with Duke?

Very early discussions are underway at the ACC about how that could look.

"I think it has to be part of an earned model, but some of it is going to be based on history and market," one ACC source said. "You have to be pretty creative how you come up with the model."

With the grant of rights weaving through every conversation, creativity and billable hours appear to be necessities in the near term.
07-18-2022 03:44 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
Thank you AeroWolf. You didn’t have to copy the whole article, but this is very interesting.

Pete Thamel of the ESPN is the only guy who keeps talking about the ACC expansion.

I agree with Thamel. The loose partnership alone won’t be enough. The ACC needs the westward expansion and he gave the list: Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, TCU, Cincy, ASU, and Colorado.

I am not sure about waiving the GoR and unequal revenue sharing.
07-18-2022 04:58 PM
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Post: #49
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 03:20 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Does anyone have an access to the ESPN plus content?

It seems like the ACC may offer a membership without requiring signing the GoR, but I don’t have a subscription to read the full content.

Or, perhaps, allowing schools to not sign one could be a negotiating play.


https://www.espn.com/college-football/in...ant-rights

I hope they try that! Section 4 of the 2013 GoR says the ACC "shall not" admit any new members unless and until they sign onto that GoR agreement. Assuming similar language carried over to the 2016 version, the ACC would either be in violation of the GoR (which will make it easier to attack in court), or you'd need unanimous consent to alter that requirement which could be withheld unless some schools are freed.
07-18-2022 08:35 PM
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Post: #50
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 04:58 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Thank you AeroWolf. You didn’t have to copy the whole article, but this is very interesting.

Pete Thamel of the ESPN is the only guy who keeps talking about the ACC expansion.

I agree with Thamel. The loose partnership alone won’t be enough. The ACC needs the westward expansion and he gave the list: Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, TCU, Cincy, ASU, and Colorado.

I am not sure about waiving the GoR and unequal revenue sharing.


I don't think you take both Cal and Stanford. Pick one, and take Utah -- much better football results, and a fan base that gives a s*it.
07-18-2022 09:13 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #51
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 08:35 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  
(07-18-2022 03:20 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Does anyone have an access to the ESPN plus content?

It seems like the ACC may offer a membership without requiring signing the GoR, but I don’t have a subscription to read the full content.

Or, perhaps, allowing schools to not sign one could be a negotiating play.


https://www.espn.com/college-football/in...ant-rights

I hope they try that! Section 4 of the 2013 GoR says the ACC "shall not" admit any new members unless and until they sign onto that GoR agreement. Assuming similar language carried over to the 2016 version, the ACC would either be in violation of the GoR (which will make it easier to attack in court), or you'd need unanimous consent to alter that requirement which could be withheld unless some schools are freed.

If you read between the lines, it seems like Oregon and Washington would join the ACC but they don’t want to sign the GoR and they may also want the unequal revenue sharing.

I don’t know about the unequal revenue sharing but the ACC must not budge on the GoR. There is no point of taking them without the signed GoR. If Oregon and Washington say the B12 won’t require signing a GoR, then let them go to the B12. The possibility of BIG inviting them is already low and if ND gets a deal with NBC, that possibility would become even lower.

It’s a gamble but the ACC may have to start with low hanging fruit. Poaching two of Colorado, ASU, Cal and Utah would definitely weaken the Pac. Then take Cincy and TCU from the B12. These two moves will pressure Oregon and Washington to make a difficult choice.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2022 10:05 PM by random asian guy.)
07-18-2022 09:36 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #52
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 09:13 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  
(07-18-2022 04:58 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Thank you AeroWolf. You didn’t have to copy the whole article, but this is very interesting.

Pete Thamel of the ESPN is the only guy who keeps talking about the ACC expansion.

I agree with Thamel. The loose partnership alone won’t be enough. The ACC needs the westward expansion and he gave the list: Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, TCU, Cincy, ASU, and Colorado.

I am not sure about waiving the GoR and unequal revenue sharing.


I don't think you take both Cal and Stanford. Pick one, and take Utah -- much better football results, and a fan base that gives a s*it.

I don’t think Stanford will come. Or more accruately, I don’t think Stanford will sign the ACC GoR. They have a realistic chance to get an invitation from the BIG once ND decides to join the BIG. Cal and Utah would be good for the ACC.
07-18-2022 10:08 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #53
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 04:58 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Thank you AeroWolf. You didn’t have to copy the whole article, but this is very interesting.

Pete Thamel of the ESPN is the only guy who keeps talking about the ACC expansion.

I agree with Thamel. The loose partnership alone won’t be enough. The ACC needs the westward expansion and he gave the list: Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, TCU, Cincy, ASU, and Colorado.

I am not sure about waiving the GoR and unequal revenue sharing.

I simply don't see the need for not requiring a signature on the GoR for any new member added. I believe the GoR specifically says any new member needs to sign it.

If the PAC can't hold it together Oregon and Washington will both sign a GoR whether it's with the ACC or the B12. Sometimes I think posters forget that the B12's own GoR is what is holding back Texas and OU from joining the SEC (with a possible out early of one year 2024 season - because by then the B12 will have its new members for 2023 and would likely prefer cash for letting them go one year earlier rather than legal battles over who owns media rights for one year).

And if the ACC wants in on PAC schools because ESPN wants and need it for late night inventory and the ACC needs to be the clear front-runner for a third conference in this oncoming new era than they can't stop to think about building a bridge to the West Coast. They will need to grab 4 (my preference is for Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and Utah) first and then worry about build a bridge after they have those four institutions signed on.

Of course this may be all moot if ND decides to join the B1G (I'm giving that at most a 20% chance of happening) AND the B1G goes west for 1 to 3 more since the ACC GoR is something they may not want or need to challenge to reach their goals).

Just my thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Neil
07-18-2022 10:27 PM
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random asian guy Offline
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Post: #54
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 10:27 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(07-18-2022 04:58 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Thank you AeroWolf. You didn’t have to copy the whole article, but this is very interesting.

Pete Thamel of the ESPN is the only guy who keeps talking about the ACC expansion.

I agree with Thamel. The loose partnership alone won’t be enough. The ACC needs the westward expansion and he gave the list: Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, TCU, Cincy, ASU, and Colorado.

I am not sure about waiving the GoR and unequal revenue sharing.

I simply don't see the need for not requiring a signature on the GoR for any new member added. I believe the GoR specifically says any new member needs to sign it.

If the PAC can't hold it together Oregon and Washington will both sign a GoR whether it's with the ACC or the B12. Sometimes I think posters forget that the B12's own GoR is what is holding back Texas and OU from joining the SEC (with a possible out early of one year 2024 season - because by then the B12 will have its new members for 2023 and would likely prefer cash for letting them go one year earlier rather than legal battles over who owns media rights for one year).

And if the ACC wants in on PAC schools because ESPN wants and need it for late night inventory and the ACC needs to be the clear front-runner for a third conference in this oncoming new era than they can't stop to think about building a bridge to the West Coast. They will need to grab 4 (my preference is for Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and Utah) first and then worry about build a bridge after they have those four institutions signed on.

Of course this may be all moot if ND decides to join the B1G (I'm giving that at most a 20% chance of happening) AND the B1G goes west for 1 to 3 more since the ACC GoR is something they may not want or need to challenge to reach their goals).

Just my thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Neil

Yes the B12 has the GoR but it’s much shorter. Oregon and Washington can join for the B12 for the two years and if an invitation ever comes from the BIG, they can quickly jump. On the other hand, if they joined the ACC, they would be stuck until 2036. So I would imagine that Oregon and UW would ask for a waiver. Not sure whether you read the article but the whole point of the Thamel article is about the GOR.

I agree Oregon, UW, and Stanford are top choices. But if they hesitate, the ACC should be aggressive and pressure them. Taking less valuable schools firsr might be a reasonable strategic move in my opinion.
07-18-2022 10:53 PM
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Post: #55
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 10:53 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  
(07-18-2022 10:27 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(07-18-2022 04:58 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Thank you AeroWolf. You didn’t have to copy the whole article, but this is very interesting.

Pete Thamel of the ESPN is the only guy who keeps talking about the ACC expansion.

I agree with Thamel. The loose partnership alone won’t be enough. The ACC needs the westward expansion and he gave the list: Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, TCU, Cincy, ASU, and Colorado.

I am not sure about waiving the GoR and unequal revenue sharing.

I simply don't see the need for not requiring a signature on the GoR for any new member added. I believe the GoR specifically says any new member needs to sign it.

If the PAC can't hold it together Oregon and Washington will both sign a GoR whether it's with the ACC or the B12. Sometimes I think posters forget that the B12's own GoR is what is holding back Texas and OU from joining the SEC (with a possible out early of one year 2024 season - because by then the B12 will have its new members for 2023 and would likely prefer cash for letting them go one year earlier rather than legal battles over who owns media rights for one year).

And if the ACC wants in on PAC schools because ESPN wants and need it for late night inventory and the ACC needs to be the clear front-runner for a third conference in this oncoming new era than they can't stop to think about building a bridge to the West Coast. They will need to grab 4 (my preference is for Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and Utah) first and then worry about build a bridge after they have those four institutions signed on.

Of course this may be all moot if ND decides to join the B1G (I'm giving that at most a 20% chance of happening) AND the B1G goes west for 1 to 3 more since the ACC GoR is something they may not want or need to challenge to reach their goals).

Just my thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Neil

Yes the B12 has the GoR but it’s much shorter. Oregon and Washington can join for the B12 for the two years and if an invitation ever comes from the BIG, they can quickly jump. On the other hand, if they joined the ACC, they would be stuck until 2036. So I would imagine that Oregon and UW would ask for a waiver. Not sure whether you read the article but the whole point of the Thamel article is about the GOR.

I agree Oregon, UW, and Stanford are top choices. But if they hesitate, the ACC should be aggressive and pressure them. Taking less valuable schools firsr might be a reasonable strategic move in my opinion.

I don't believe the PAC is going away tomorrow. USC and UCLA are scheduled to remain there this year and next year. By that time the B1G will already know if ND is joining or remaining independent. And since the B1G are trying to negotiate their next contract NOW, ND will probably decide soon as well as to not keep them hanging - "soon" meaning most likely by winter.

IF the Irish choose to remain indy and the PAC's next contract looks bleak then some, maybe as much as 8 total will bolt to the B12 en masse getting them to 20. But if the ACC gets its act together (and ESPN does indeed want/need the West Coast market for reasons that escape me) the conference can stem the tide that at the moment looks to be hurdling toward the B12 to be a third conference (assuming the Power 2 even allow a third conference) and the ACC will be even further behind than it is now.

Cheers,
Neil
07-18-2022 11:16 PM
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Gitanole Offline
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Post: #56
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-06-2022 02:32 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  ESPN reps may have told the league that payouts can stay more or less the same if the ACC brings in some compensating games for the games they're about to lose.

(07-06-2022 08:43 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Gitanole,

I love reading your posts because they are always presented in a way thats easy to follow with good explanations. So, Im curious as to how you see the bolded part of your post playing out. My thinking is if the whole reason that folks are supposedly trying to leave the ACC because of lower payouts compared to BIG and SEC, why would the ACC expanding and keeping similar payouts satisfy any of the programs that folks think are looking to leave?

That's kind of you! Thanks for reading and for sharing your thoughts as well, Cuseroc

I was thinking that it wouldn't. Those schools would be gone soon anyway. This would be a matter of the rest of the ACC being taken care of, with ESPN playing the role of broker.

If you're Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina or Virginia and you want to leave for the P2 earlier than 2036, you will probably need some cooperation from the people you're leaving behind. Every school will need to vote to reduce your financial penalty, waive the grant of rights and whatnot.

OK, so if you're Duke or Wake Forest, why should you be a good sport and help those schools leave? Well, you might be persuaded if ESPN has assured you that your money will stay the same. Those schools still aren't getting out for free; they will pay you something for your trouble. You'll have a few new playmates in the conference, but the new people will be people who want to be there while you retain most of your old friends.

OK, so you're ESPN. Why are you promising Duke and Wake Forest no reduction in money? Maybe because you've been talking to ND and know the Irish want to keep their present arrangement with the ACC. You definitely do not want the Irish going to Fox/B1G. You're willing to do your bit to keep a viable ACC together as long as ND is on board. You can absorb the departures of Clemson and NC (to another league that you also broadcast, after all), you're helped by their exit money, you have an ND-sized say in the new playoff structure, you can bid on other ND content, and you can bring in a few new markets/schools farther west. So maybe it's worth it to you.

OK, so you're Stanford and Cal. Why are you about to accept a bid to join an expanded ACC that has no Clemson, Florida State, NC, or Virginia in it? Because it's still your most lucrative option. You will now be making ACC money, recruits will see your teams on a functioning network, your game times will be reasonable (the Atlantic schools will cover earlier time slots), you'll keep your rivalry with each other, you'll play ND regularly, and it's fine with you to be playing Duke and Wake Forest, because schools like that are kind of your style anyway. Maybe you're also expecting two more friends to come along with you to fill those other two open spots.

Does it work? I have no idea. The people with the spreadsheets would need to look it all over. I just suspect that the odds of something like this being explored right now are, if not as high as 50%, better than 0%.

The main thing for all parties is to make a good-faith effort to do right by everyone. It's a win if every party can move around and meet the most urgent needs without lawsuits and pain. If the resulting conference can then work until 2036, it can be maintained or tweaked or imploded at that point, depending on what the parties decide.
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2022 02:49 AM by Gitanole.)
07-19-2022 02:41 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #57
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-18-2022 10:27 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  ...if the ACC wants in on PAC schools because ESPN wants and need it for late night inventory and the ACC needs to be the clear front-runner for a third conference in this oncoming new era than they can't stop to think about building a bridge to the West Coast. They will need to grab 4 (my preference is for Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and Utah) first and then worry about build a bridge after they have those four institutions signed on.

Of course this may be all moot if ND decides to join the B1G (I'm giving that at most a 20% chance of happening) AND the B1G goes west for 1 to 3 more since the ACC GoR is something they may not want or need to challenge to reach their goals).

Just my thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Neil

I like the 4 you picked, but if it was up to me, I'd also invite Colorado and Arizona State for a Western 6-pack. Then I might also go after Oklahoma State, TCU, Houston, and Kansas to get to 24 total.
07-19-2022 09:11 AM
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swardy76 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
Take the initiative! Grab all the viable remaining Big 12 and PAC schools for a 32-member conference. Organize in pods of 4. Play your pod mates, 5 from the other 7, and 1 protected/school choice (ie. WF/NC St or UNC, VT/UVA) for a 9-game schedule leaving 3 for OOC.

Creating such a large block of "P5" schools will improve negotiation potential with the B1G and SEC around CFP and media possibilities for ESPN.

Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
West Virginia

North Carolina
NC State
Virginia
Duke

Virginia Tech
Louisville
Wake Forest
Cincinnati

Clemson
Florida State
Georgia Tech
Miami

Baylor
TCU
Texas Tech
Houston

Iowa State
Kansas
Oklahoma State
BYU

California
Oregon
Stanford
Washington

Utah
Arizona
Arizona State
Colorado

Left out:
UCF
Kansas State
Oregon State
Washington State
(This post was last modified: 07-19-2022 09:50 AM by swardy76.)
07-19-2022 09:48 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #59
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-19-2022 09:11 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-18-2022 10:27 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  ...if the ACC wants in on PAC schools because ESPN wants and need it for late night inventory and the ACC needs to be the clear front-runner for a third conference in this oncoming new era than they can't stop to think about building a bridge to the West Coast. They will need to grab 4 (my preference is for Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and Utah) first and then worry about build a bridge after they have those four institutions signed on.

Of course this may be all moot if ND decides to join the B1G (I'm giving that at most a 20% chance of happening) AND the B1G goes west for 1 to 3 more since the ACC GoR is something they may not want or need to challenge to reach their goals).

Just my thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Neil

I like the 4 you picked, but if it was up to me, I'd also invite Colorado and Arizona State for a Western 6-pack. Then I might also go after Oklahoma State, TCU, Houston, and Kansas to get to 24 total.

Everything I am reading and hearing from people who cover the Arizona schools is that they are a package deal and they want the B12 for Texas recruiting since they feel California recruiting will tip towards B1G schools.

I am not familiar enough with recruiting to dispute the latter but I have to wonder why Texas joining Texas A&M wouldn't handicap Texas recruiting as much as USC and UCLA joining the B1G would impact California recruiting.

And I think for the ACC to succeed it needs both boldness and austerity at this time. IF jumping to 20 right away helps the ACC's overall monetary situation then go for it all at once but in those circumstances I might do the PAC 4 and two from Oklahoma State, Baylor, and TCU.

Time will tell.

Cheers,
Neil
07-19-2022 10:20 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #60
RE: ACC/PAC12 Alignment?
(07-19-2022 10:20 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(07-19-2022 09:11 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(07-18-2022 10:27 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  ...if the ACC wants in on PAC schools because ESPN wants and need it for late night inventory and the ACC needs to be the clear front-runner for a third conference in this oncoming new era than they can't stop to think about building a bridge to the West Coast. They will need to grab 4 (my preference is for Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and Utah) first and then worry about build a bridge after they have those four institutions signed on.

Of course this may be all moot if ND decides to join the B1G (I'm giving that at most a 20% chance of happening) AND the B1G goes west for 1 to 3 more since the ACC GoR is something they may not want or need to challenge to reach their goals).

Just my thoughts on this.

Cheers,
Neil

I like the 4 you picked, but if it was up to me, I'd also invite Colorado and Arizona State for a Western 6-pack. Then I might also go after Oklahoma State, TCU, Houston, and Kansas to get to 24 total.

Everything I am reading and hearing from people who cover the Arizona schools is that they are a package deal and they want the B12 for Texas recruiting since they feel California recruiting will tip towards B1G schools.

I am not familiar enough with recruiting to dispute the latter but I have to wonder why Texas joining Texas A&M wouldn't handicap Texas recruiting as much as USC and UCLA joining the B1G would impact California recruiting.

And I think for the ACC to succeed it needs both boldness and austerity at this time. IF jumping to 20 right away helps the ACC's overall monetary situation then go for it all at once but in those circumstances I might do the PAC 4 and two from Oklahoma State, Baylor, and TCU.

Time will tell.

Cheers,
Neil

You may be right.
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07-19-2022 10:34 AM
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