I am asking this based on both the potential lack of schools able to have the necessary value and conferences dropping divisions. You remove the need for even numbers if there are no divisions. And the two could avoid adding teams that may not add the proper value. So for example why should the B1G and SEC push to 20 if 19 makes more sense?

(07-20-2022 06:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I am asking this based on both the potential lack of schools able to have the necessary value and conferences dropping divisions. You remove the need for even numbers if there are no divisions. And the two could avoid adding teams that may not add the proper value. So for example why should the B1G and SEC push to 20 if 19 makes more sense?

My opinion is that they don’t but they need to pick numbers that can be scheduled. To me, it makes the most sense to have divisions of 7 or 9 teams each. That means 6 or 8 division games, with half at home and half on the road. That would mean 18 (2x9), 21 (3x7), etc.

If you want to play an odd number of conference games (as the Big Ten does with 9), you must have an even number of schools for there to be a completely even schedule.

(07-20-2022 06:51 PM)Alanda Wrote:  I am asking this based on both the potential lack of schools able to have the necessary value and conferences dropping divisions. You remove the need for even numbers if there are no divisions. And the two could avoid adding teams that may not add the proper value. So for example why should the B1G and SEC push to 20 if 19 makes more sense?

If you go to an odd number of teams, then you either need to have each team play an even number of regular season conference games, or accept that not all teams will play the same number of regular season conference games.

So if the B1G went to 19, they would probably have to go to 10 conference games/team/year, which is undesirable in the current CFP format. More conference games means more losses.

And you have some difficulties in sports like basketball where someone has to schedule ooc.

No its not necessary, but it just makes more sense to be even. And as Frank says, you would have to schedule 8 or 10 conference games in football. 9 wouldn't work.

14 weeks between 8/27-11/26, just add games and conference games. No byes.

(07-20-2022 08:13 PM)NotoriousOne Wrote:  My opinion is that they don’t but they need to pick numbers that can be scheduled. To me, it makes the most sense to have divisions of 7 or 9 teams each. That means 6 or 8 division games, with half at home and half on the road. That would mean 18 (2x9), 21 (3x7), etc.

So you would prefer odd-numbered divisions. Does that mean you be against a 20-team, two division conference or 24 teams that's 4x6?


If you go to an odd number of teams, then you either need to have each team play an even number of regular season conference games, or accept that not all teams will play the same number of regular season conference games.

So if the B1G went to 19, they would probably have to go to 10 conference games/team/year, which is undesirable in the current CFP format. More conference games means more losses.
[/quote]

I believe my perspective sees the SEC with the same number of teams as the B1G playing an even number of conference games. Yet I am not properly seeing why an odd number of teams doesn't allow for either even or odd conference games in the same way. I can see that about the CFP. I'd say I'm looking at the potential future CFP format since they are likely to be punished less for playing in those conferences unless the selection committee is dropped. And at the same time having at-large slots available making entry easier.

(07-20-2022 08:17 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If you want to play an odd number of conference games (as the Big Ten does with 9), you must have an even number of schools for there to be a completely even schedule.

(07-20-2022 08:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  And you have some difficulties in sports like basketball where someone has to schedule ooc.

No its not necessary, but it just makes more sense to be even. And as Frank says, you would have to schedule 8 or 10 conference games in football. 9 wouldn't work.

But wouldn't OOC scheduling be impacted regardless since there would be more conference teams?

And to both you and Frank couldn't they still stay at nine even with the extra teams with the bigger issue being how less often they play certain teams? I'm likely missing something, but in my current view where conferences with even amounts of teams are playing both even and odd numbers of conference games, then why can't the same be applied to an odd-numbered conference.

(07-20-2022 09:10 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  14 weeks between 8/27-11/26, just add games and conference games. No byes.

Couldn't they also drop an OOC or two and replace them with conference games to keep the byes?

(07-20-2022 09:28 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 08:13 PM)NotoriousOne Wrote:  My opinion is that they don’t but they need to pick numbers that can be scheduled. To me, it makes the most sense to have divisions of 7 or 9 teams each. That means 6 or 8 division games, with half at home and half on the road. That would mean 18 (2x9), 21 (3x7), etc.

So you would prefer odd-numbered divisions. Does that mean you be against a 20-team, two division conference or 24 teams that's 4x6?


If you go to an odd number of teams, then you either need to have each team play an even number of regular season conference games, or accept that not all teams will play the same number of regular season conference games.

So if the B1G went to 19, they would probably have to go to 10 conference games/team/year, which is undesirable in the current CFP format. More conference games means more losses.

I believe my perspective sees the SEC with the same number of teams as the B1G playing an even number of conference games. Yet I am not properly seeing why an odd number of teams doesn't allow for either even or odd conference games in the same way. I can see that about the CFP. I'd say I'm looking at the potential future CFP format since they are likely to be punished less for playing in those conferences unless the selection committee is dropped. And at the same time having at-large slots available making entry easier.

(07-20-2022 08:17 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If you want to play an odd number of conference games (as the Big Ten does with 9), you must have an even number of schools for there to be a completely even schedule.

(07-20-2022 08:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  And you have some difficulties in sports like basketball where someone has to schedule ooc.

No its not necessary, but it just makes more sense to be even. And as Frank says, you would have to schedule 8 or 10 conference games in football. 9 wouldn't work.

But wouldn't OOC scheduling be impacted regardless since there would be more conference teams?

And to both you and Frank couldn't they still stay at nine even with the extra teams with the bigger issue being how less often they play certain teams? I'm likely missing something, but in my current view where conferences with even amounts of teams are playing both even and odd numbers of conference games, then why can't the same be applied to an odd-numbered conference.
[/quote]

You are missing math. 17X9=153 divided by 2 teams per game=76.5. There can't be half a game. It is mathematically impossible.

(07-20-2022 09:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:28 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 08:17 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If you want to play an odd number of conference games (as the Big Ten does with 9), you must have an even number of schools for there to be a completely even schedule.

(07-20-2022 08:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  And you have some difficulties in sports like basketball where someone has to schedule ooc.

No its not necessary, but it just makes more sense to be even. And as Frank says, you would have to schedule 8 or 10 conference games in football. 9 wouldn't work.

But wouldn't OOC scheduling be impacted regardless since there would be more conference teams?

And to both you and Frank couldn't they still stay at nine even with the extra teams with the bigger issue being how less often they play certain teams? I'm likely missing something, but in my current view where conferences with even amounts of teams are playing both even and odd numbers of conference games, then why can't the same be applied to an odd-numbered conference.

You are missing math. 17X9=153 divided by 2 teams per game=76.5. There can't be half a game. It is mathematically impossible.

I understand now, thank you. So based on that they could still go 19 and play 10 games right? Did the B1G chose nine to play more conference games since some others played eight? I am asking because I don't know. I am guessing whether it's 19 or 20 teams, 10 would be the cap unless they agree to drop more OOC games. But if an even number of conference games end up being the case would they really still need 20 (or 21/23 instead of 24) even if the 20th or beyond team(s) lack the necessary value?

I admit I play around with seeing how scheduling would work with odd numbers from time to time. I was thinking in the short term, the B1G could add ND while the SEC add Kansas to each get to 17. Then the ACC add Cincy, WVU, and UCF to get 17, and would play 4 rivals annually while rotating 4 or 6 of the other 12 teams, but Greg Sankey pretty much said if they add 1 team, they're going to add a 2nd team and felt confident that the B1G would do the same (question if I remember correct was asked if B1G got ND and stayed at 17, would the SEC add 1 and stay at 17). Refered to even numbers being for divisible and thus allowing more flexibility in scheduling comparing 17 to 18 and 20, then 14 to 16.

https://twitter.com/1010XL/status/154948...DlNWb_YqIA

(07-20-2022 10:19 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:28 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 08:17 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If you want to play an odd number of conference games (as the Big Ten does with 9), you must have an even number of schools for there to be a completely even schedule.

(07-20-2022 08:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  And you have some difficulties in sports like basketball where someone has to schedule ooc.

No its not necessary, but it just makes more sense to be even. And as Frank says, you would have to schedule 8 or 10 conference games in football. 9 wouldn't work.

But wouldn't OOC scheduling be impacted regardless since there would be more conference teams?

And to both you and Frank couldn't they still stay at nine even with the extra teams with the bigger issue being how less often they play certain teams? I'm likely missing something, but in my current view where conferences with even amounts of teams are playing both even and odd numbers of conference games, then why can't the same be applied to an odd-numbered conference.

You are missing math. 17X9=153 divided by 2 teams per game=76.5. There can't be half a game. It is mathematically impossible.

I understand now, thank you. So based on that they could still go 19 and play 10 games right? Did the B1G chose nine to play more conference games since some others played eight? I am asking because I don't know. I am guessing whether it's 19 or 20 teams, 10 would be the cap unless they agree to drop more OOC games. But if an even number of conference games end up being the case would they really still need 20 (or 21/23 instead of 24) even if the 20th or beyond team(s) lack the necessary value?

The B1G would probably add 1-3 more teams if they added ND, but if for some financial reason, they decided to stay at 17 and wanted to stay at 9 conference games, my guess would be everyone, but ND would play the 9 conference games while ND would insist on playing 8 conference games to help maintain their Navy rivalry and still have some flexibility on playing a national schedule within a conference.

(07-20-2022 09:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:28 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 08:13 PM)NotoriousOne Wrote:  My opinion is that they don’t but they need to pick numbers that can be scheduled. To me, it makes the most sense to have divisions of 7 or 9 teams each. That means 6 or 8 division games, with half at home and half on the road. That would mean 18 (2x9), 21 (3x7), etc.

So you would prefer odd-numbered divisions. Does that mean you be against a 20-team, two division conference or 24 teams that's 4x6?


If you go to an odd number of teams, then you either need to have each team play an even number of regular season conference games, or accept that not all teams will play the same number of regular season conference games.

So if the B1G went to 19, they would probably have to go to 10 conference games/team/year, which is undesirable in the current CFP format. More conference games means more losses.

I believe my perspective sees the SEC with the same number of teams as the B1G playing an even number of conference games. Yet I am not properly seeing why an odd number of teams doesn't allow for either even or odd conference games in the same way. I can see that about the CFP. I'd say I'm looking at the potential future CFP format since they are likely to be punished less for playing in those conferences unless the selection committee is dropped. And at the same time having at-large slots available making entry easier.

(07-20-2022 08:17 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If you want to play an odd number of conference games (as the Big Ten does with 9), you must have an even number of schools for there to be a completely even schedule.

(07-20-2022 08:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  And you have some difficulties in sports like basketball where someone has to schedule ooc.

No its not necessary, but it just makes more sense to be even. And as Frank says, you would have to schedule 8 or 10 conference games in football. 9 wouldn't work.

But wouldn't OOC scheduling be impacted regardless since there would be more conference teams?

And to both you and Frank couldn't they still stay at nine even with the extra teams with the bigger issue being how less often they play certain teams? I'm likely missing something, but in my current view where conferences with even amounts of teams are playing both even and odd numbers of conference games, then why can't the same be applied to an odd-numbered conference.

You are missing math. 17X9=153 divided by 2 teams per game=76.5. There can't be half a game. It is mathematically impossible.
[/quote]

I agree with Frank and bullet that it would require the BIG to go to 10 conference games. This could be a tough sell to some but if the BIG and SEC gobble up enough teams there may not be a large non-conference schedule worth playing from a TV money perspective. As to the CFP implications, it certainly would not be advantageous under the current rules but if we do get to a true P2 then those rules would change.

(07-20-2022 10:19 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:30 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 09:28 PM)Alanda Wrote:  

(07-20-2022 08:17 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If you want to play an odd number of conference games (as the Big Ten does with 9), you must have an even number of schools for there to be a completely even schedule.

(07-20-2022 08:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  And you have some difficulties in sports like basketball where someone has to schedule ooc.

No its not necessary, but it just makes more sense to be even. And as Frank says, you would have to schedule 8 or 10 conference games in football. 9 wouldn't work.

But wouldn't OOC scheduling be impacted regardless since there would be more conference teams?

And to both you and Frank couldn't they still stay at nine even with the extra teams with the bigger issue being how less often they play certain teams? I'm likely missing something, but in my current view where conferences with even amounts of teams are playing both even and odd numbers of conference games, then why can't the same be applied to an odd-numbered conference.

You are missing math. 17X9=153 divided by 2 teams per game=76.5. There can't be half a game. It is mathematically impossible.

I understand now, thank you. So based on that they could still go 19 and play 10 games right? Did the B1G chose nine to play more conference games since some others played eight? I am asking because I don't know. I am guessing whether it's 19 or 20 teams, 10 would be the cap unless they agree to drop more OOC games. But if an even number of conference games end up being the case would they really still need 20 (or 21/23 instead of 24) even if the 20th or beyond team(s) lack the necessary value?

An even number of games is possible. But you can't do an odd number of games unless one team plays one more or one less than everyone else.

I really can’t imagine a conference going to 10 conference games. That might, as weird as it sounds, actually dilute your perceived strength of schedule because it would mean that your conference opponents would have worse records due to playing one more conference game. (And also that the conference teams that your opponents play, but you don’t play, would have worse records.)


And, quite frankly, teams like getting to bowl games, no matter how meaningless. Ten conference games makes it harder to get to the magical 6-6.

(07-20-2022 08:26 PM)bullet Wrote:  And you have some difficulties in sports like basketball where someone has to schedule ooc.

No its not necessary, but it just makes more sense to be even. And as Frank says, you would have to schedule 8 or 10 conference games in football. 9 wouldn't work.

The ACC currently has 15 full members now because of Notre Dame and it's not ideal. They could just add an all but football member like Villanova (or invite Connecticut for all sports but football and make UConn football earn their place in ACC football). The Big East currently has 11 and has the same issue.

(07-21-2022 05:25 AM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  I admit I play around with seeing how scheduling would work with odd numbers from time to time. I was thinking in the short term, the B1G could add ND while the SEC add Kansas to each get to 17. Then the ACC add Cincy, WVU, and UCF to get 17, and would play 4 rivals annually while rotating 4 or 6 of the other 12 teams, but Greg Sankey pretty much said if they add 1 team, they're going to add a 2nd team and felt confident that the B1G would do the same (question if I remember correct was asked if B1G got ND and stayed at 17, would the SEC add 1 and stay at 17). Refered to even numbers being for divisible and thus allowing more flexibility in scheduling comparing 17 to 18 and 20, then 14 to 16.

https://twitter.com/1010XL/status/154948...DlNWb_YqIA

(07-21-2022 05:36 AM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  The B1G would probably add 1-3 more teams if they added ND, but if for some financial reason, they decided to stay at 17 and wanted to stay at 9 conference games, my guess would be everyone, but ND would play the 9 conference games while ND would insist on playing 8 conference games to help maintain their Navy rivalry and still have some flexibility on playing a national schedule within a conference.

Nice ideas and thanks for the link. Sankey's explanation was also what I needed.

Interestingly I was searching for college realignment vids on Youtube last night and came across this Colin Cowherd interview posted July 4th with Joel Klatt. At 10:05 Cowherd says his source told him the B1G only plans to expand with ND and Klatt agreed with that. Obviously it's still not a guarantee the B1G would stop with ND.

(07-21-2022 01:50 PM)Poster Wrote:  I really can’t imagine a conference going to 10 conference games. That might, as weird as it sounds, actually dilute your perceived strength of schedule because it would mean that your conference opponents would have worse records due to playing one more conference game. (And also that the conference teams that your opponents play, but you don’t play, would have worse records.)


And, quite frankly, teams like getting to bowl games, no matter how meaningless. Ten conference games makes it harder to get to the magical 6-6.

Maybe so. Right now I feel like pushing past 16 teams means they would have to let go of single-digit conference games.

(07-21-2022 04:29 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Maybe so. Right now I feel like pushing past 16 teams means they would have to let go of single-digit conference games.

With three "annual rivals", what it means is that some pairs of schools will play other once every three years and one will host the other once every six years.

And when the Big Ten schools voted to add USC/UCLA, all schools being able to play them twice in four years, home and away, would have been part of what they wanted.

(07-21-2022 09:00 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-21-2022 04:29 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Maybe so. Right now I feel like pushing past 16 teams means they would have to let go of single-digit conference games.

With three "annual rivals", what it means is that some pairs of schools will play other once every three years and one will host the other once every six years.

And when the Big Ten schools voted to add USC/UCLA, all schools being able to play them twice in four years, home and away, would have been part of what they wanted.

Is that based on being at 16 or over 16?

Why needlessly complicate scheduling? At a certain point, unfair and unbalanced scheduling in conferences will damage fanbases. While we can't have the ideal of playing everyone every year (like the 10 team Big 12), boy does that enhance competitiveness and make things interesting. If we're just playing a couple rivals then a couple random games every year, the conf season is meaningless and fans will walk.