(07-26-2022 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 03:53 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 01:13 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 09:22 AM)Poster Wrote:  

(07-24-2022 11:21 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  It is nearly one big market, and both are heavy CFB markets.

JR is right, the P2's are kingmakers. I think either would work, but USF is a better fit institutionally and the SEC has the social capital to cover their lesser performance to UCF.

If the P2s are looking at out-of-the-money schools, ones needing a partner like ND to cover, they could just look long term.

Schools in the south making P5 money while the others in the state are in the SEC will lose their place in line. FSU in particular given USF has a superior location.

This would be hugely motivating for FSU and and Miami. I think if the SEC pursued this, FSU and Miami would get very creative to get out of the GOR. Get Clemson on board too. Maybe all road games until the ACC leftovers relented. Maybe even go complete madman tactic and just leave. Better if it is a group of 4-6, but as long as it is less than $800 million and avoids the existential threat of USF being in the SEC over them, worth the risk of having to return to ACC and owe some amortized back rights. What is an ACC to ESPN without Clemson, Miami, and FSU etc?

Just a question of how bloody do things need to get.

USF getting an SEC invite? What’s the next hypothetical that’s suggested on here-Western Kentucky getting a Big 10 invite?

You missed the setup to the hypothetical, as well as the huge difference between USF and WKU

Where would USF be with respect to FSU in 14 years if in the SEC over that time, while FSU stays in the ACC making half? Would FSU still have a higher valuation?

A lot of people seem to be assuming UCF and USF are on equal footing; that USF is just as valuable as UCF so they should be added by a power conference. That could not be more wrong. Honestly UCF is closer to Alabama and Ohio State than they are to USF at this point.

USF has little to no fan support. They can't get people to show up for games while giving away tickets at dunkin donuts drive throughs.

No facilities. Their IPF will be finished in time for the '23 football season, no way it's done during the '22 season with where it's currently at. And they'll never be able to fund an OCS no matter how many over the top renderings they make.

They have no conference or division championships. Not just in the AAC, ever. They've never been in a major bowl game, let alone win one. Their biggest appearance I believe is the Birmingham Bowl.

They have no market presence. They're at best fighting for the 5th CFB spot in their market.
Hell the Tampa area pro teams struggle with fan support. The Rays can't get any fans to show up, they'd be in Montreal by now if covid didn't ruin their 2020 season to have half their home games there. Before the Bucs got Brady they couldn't get much of anyone to show up. It took the Lightning multiple Stanley Cup wins to get a decent home crowd and there's still strong away team crowds at their games.

USF and UConn are now the only former Big East schools to be left out during realignment. Twice. If they had any value they would of been added with UCF when the Big 12 just accessed all available schools. They were nowhere near being seriously considered.

It is completely ridiculous thinking USF is anything but a negative add for a power conference much less the SEC. It'd be like when the Big East tried to stabilize itself by trying to convince Villanova to start playing FBS football. That's how far behind they are. Have you noticed that no USF fans are chiming in on this thread? It's because they know it's a ridiculous notion.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

And nothing you said is disputed, nor is it relevant. UCF has peaked. You will not be in the Big Ten, nor will you make the SEC, academics, and frankly location, are against you.

This thread isn't about UCF. It's about how destructive to FSU and Miami an adherence to the ACC GOR would be.

If the University of Florida showed up in Tampa/St. Pete would the venue sell out? Likely. Ditto Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, LSU, and A&M as all travel very well. Orlando is sprawled and congested due to theme park nirvana and is a great side trip for an extended weekend of college sports, but that novelty wears off. Tampa/St Pete is preferable for a weekend for couples sans kids.

The point is if the SEC needed a second Florida school, and it does, if FSU and Miami, both academically preferable, were locked up, USF could be elevated because of location and academics. The SEC would pick up the venue issues and our families would enjoy the Gulf Coast and amenities of T/SP.

My larger point was the ACC GOR would essentially bypass Miami and FSU and with 100 million annually in athletic revenue USF would catch up and surpass those in Florida making 40 million annually and less. Money has a way of being of great benefit.

The threat of USF supplanting a FSU or Miami is merely illustrative of the urgency to dissolve the ACC because the financial disparity will doom all bound there. The SEC and Big Ten will simply move on without them.

Oh I didn't realize you're simply looking for a beach vacation add. Why not FIU for Miami Beach? If that's to much city a little further north you have FAU in Boca/Ft Lauderdale. Both of those schools have their own stadiums. Or scrap the beach and add UNLV for a fun Vegas trip.

(07-26-2022 04:44 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 03:53 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 01:13 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 09:22 AM)Poster Wrote:  USF getting an SEC invite? What’s the next hypothetical that’s suggested on here-Western Kentucky getting a Big 10 invite?

You missed the setup to the hypothetical, as well as the huge difference between USF and WKU

Where would USF be with respect to FSU in 14 years if in the SEC over that time, while FSU stays in the ACC making half? Would FSU still have a higher valuation?

A lot of people seem to be assuming UCF and USF are on equal footing; that USF is just as valuable as UCF so they should be added by a power conference. That could not be more wrong. Honestly UCF is closer to Alabama and Ohio State than they are to USF at this point.

USF has little to no fan support. They can't get people to show up for games while giving away tickets at dunkin donuts drive throughs.

No facilities. Their IPF will be finished in time for the '23 football season, no way it's done during the '22 season with where it's currently at. And they'll never be able to fund an OCS no matter how many over the top renderings they make.

They have no conference or division championships. Not just in the AAC, ever. They've never been in a major bowl game, let alone win one. Their biggest appearance I believe is the Birmingham Bowl.

They have no market presence. They're at best fighting for the 5th CFB spot in their market.
Hell the Tampa area pro teams struggle with fan support. The Rays can't get any fans to show up, they'd be in Montreal by now if covid didn't ruin their 2020 season to have half their home games there. Before the Bucs got Brady they couldn't get much of anyone to show up. It took the Lightning multiple Stanley Cup wins to get a decent home crowd and there's still strong away team crowds at their games.

USF and UConn are now the only former Big East schools to be left out during realignment. Twice. If they had any value they would of been added with UCF when the Big 12 just accessed all available schools. They were nowhere near being seriously considered.

It is completely ridiculous thinking USF is anything but a negative add for a power conference much less the SEC. It'd be like when the Big East tried to stabilize itself by trying to convince Villanova to start playing FBS football. That's how far behind they are. Have you noticed that no USF fans are chiming in on this thread? It's because they know it's a ridiculous notion.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

And nothing you said is disputed, nor is it relevant. UCF has peaked. You will not be in the Big Ten, nor will you make the SEC, academics, and frankly location, are against you.

This thread isn't about UCF. It's about how destructive to FSU and Miami an adherence to the ACC GOR would be.

If the University of Florida showed up in Tampa/St. Pete would the venue sell out? Likely. Ditto Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, LSU, and A&M as all travel very well. Orlando is sprawled and congested due to theme park nirvana and is a great side trip for an extended weekend of college sports, but that novelty wears off. Tampa/St Pete is preferable for a weekend for couples sans kids.

The point is if the SEC needed a second Florida school, and it does, if FSU and Miami, both academically preferable, were locked up, USF could be elevated because of location and academics. The SEC would pick up the venue issues and our families would enjoy the Gulf Coast and amenities of T/SP.

My larger point was the ACC GOR would essentially bypass Miami and FSU and with 100 million annually in athletic revenue USF would catch up and surpass those in Florida making 40 million annually and less. Money has a way of being of great benefit.

The threat of USF supplanting a FSU or Miami is merely illustrative of the urgency to dissolve the ACC because the financial disparity will doom all bound there. The SEC and Big Ten will simply move on without them.

Oh I didn't realize you're simply looking for a beach vacation add. Why not FIU for Miami Beach? If that's to much city a little further north you have FAU in Boca/Ft Lauderdale. Both of those schools have their own stadiums. Or scrap the beach and add UNLV for a fun Vegas trip.

No. We are simply looking for a second Florida school to facilitate member SEC schools who have limited options to play there now that 15 want U of F to regularly play them. It is why FSU and Miami would not be improbable additions as 3 locations would reduce a 20 school SEC to about a 6-1 ratio as opposed to a 15-1, we have now. Florida is 42%, FSU 34%, and Miami 19% of the total CFB viewers in the state with some overlap between the 3 and the data being old enough UCF has likely gained a percentage or two from each. But should FSU and Miami remain tied up, USF will do. It's much easier to buy out the AAC at 19 million than the 80 million the Big 12 wants. And you will be under a new GOR in 3 years, and you still don't fit the profile. Should past that point Miami and FSU become available Miami looks more intriguing since the panhandle and central gulf coast will be covered and Miami is a large market.

(07-26-2022 09:25 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 09:10 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND is 24-1 versus ACC teams the last five regular seasons for a reason.

More like two reasons.

The Irish have been pretty darn good.

And the GoR prisoners? Uhh, not so much.

Agree that ND recruiting and performance has excelled during the past five years. It’s more likely that the ACC arrangement has actually helped in the improvement of ND football. ND was 8-7 in 2013-2016 against the ACC.

Also, ND has only lost 10 total games in the past 5 seasons…3 (2x to Clemson and 1x to Miami) to ACC teams. Statistically, ND’s performance versus the ACC is fairly comparable to their overall performance.

Finally, you need to compare ND to other CFP contenders (Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia or Oklahoma). For example, Alabama is 38-4 during their last 5 regular seasons in the SEC…and they have the courage to play at least 8 regular season games versus SEC opponents. Yet no one is suggesting that the Tide are playing in a weak conference. The fact is that a few teams have separated themselves during the CFP era. Rather than taking cheap shots at the ACC, ND fans should be enjoying their resurgence.

Bottom-line, it’s a dumb argument.

(07-26-2022 06:56 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 10:40 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 01:32 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 08:27 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 08:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  1) If ND cannot get out of the GOR or get $75 million a year from NBC, then it signs a new 2025 deal for as much $$ as it can get, then sits there waiting out the GOR

(It still gets a nice raise and is a nice position as it relates to the ACC...tick tok.....)


2) ND fans care. Who cares whether anyone else cares?

ND getting bonus money to stay independent doesn't help any of the powers of the ACC. That's the point.

Sorry, that is never on my radar.

Whose fault is it that the ACC powers are where they are?

Themselves, that is who.

It is not ND's duty to "save" them....from themselves, apparently.

Just like the ACC fans don't want to see ND satisfied, I figure they are on their own.

Terry, you're so used to defending Notre Dame's interests that you failed to realize I wasn't even talking about what ND should or shouldn't do.

It doesn't matter what ND does to anyone other than ND. That's fine. What I was talking about is what position the ACC is in and what effect all these decisions have on the members that have options.

I never said ND had a duty to do anything, however, the flip side of that coin is that the ACC doesn't have a duty to ND either. Just as ND is pursuing their best interests, the ACC members will do the same. They gave ND a deal several years ago because it was necessary to save the league. What I was pointing out is that arrangement is most likely untenable going forward because too many external factors have changed.

The point was that ND could choose the NBC money all day long and it doesn't guarantee the ACC will even continue to exist. It's an interesting aspect of the discussion that people aren't really thinking about...not a commentary on ND's purposes and intentions. Not everything revolves around ND

For ND's part, I see them ending up in the Big Ten. The ACC members that have options will mostly go to the SEC and some will go to the Big Ten. A few may end up in a 3rd conference.

This is all predicated on the notion that a critical mass of ACC members will come to see the conference as non-viable irrespective of ND's affiliation. Once they realize that, the dissolution is soon to follow. What I'm saying is if ND chooses the money from NBC in an effort to maintain independence then it doesn't actually guarantee they or NBC are getting what they've bargained for.

Whether ND goes to the Big Ten or is successful in obtaining a massive contract, the ACC could very easily dissolve either way. Their iterests are at odds and so they will look for salvation in other ave members that have options cannot depend on Notre Dame to save them because their inenues...whether ND wants to stay independent or not.

I understood what you were saying from my first glance at your first post.

You meant "who in the ACC cares" if ND gets a big NBC deal. But, you said "Who cares"...and I responded by "ND fans care".

You misunderstood my posts.

I wasn't "defending" ND. ND doesn't need defending here. I wasn't claiming that everything revolves around ND, although right now realignment seems to do so. :)

What I am saying is that, at this point, not many ND fans really care all that much about what happens to the ACC.

I was re-phrasing your post as "Who cares if the ACC folds"??

If ND gets a big NBC contract and the ACC folds, ND can join the Big East for other sports.

If ND gets a big NBC contract and the ACC survives, cool. Congrats.

If ND doesn't get a big NBC contract and the ACC folds, ND can explore joining the Big Ten.

The ACC is on its own. Good luck to them.

Fair enough.

The ACC and Notre Dame are no longer in a real symbiosis with each other. I think their fates are fairly divergent.

But the reason I think ND will end up in the Big Ten is because the other workable options are cumbersome.

Minor sports in the Big East plus fully independent schedule: It makes sense on paper, but there's a reason ND didn't maintain this relationship after the Big East football collapse. The minor sports would have been fine, but filling out the schedule in the meat of the conference season was getting tougher.

I agree that schools won't suddenly stop playing Notre Dame, but it will be harder to schedule well consistently. If we get down to a P3 then there will also be more mandated conference games and that leaves less room for any independents regardless of their stature.