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XLance Offline
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Post: #1
Defensive expansion
To those that believe that the SEC and B1G will continue to add teams to expand to 20 or 24.

Any further expansion will be for defensive purposes. That is to keep schools, that are not necessarily "valuable, as stand alone brands" away from the other guy.

Now that Texas and Oklahoma and USC and UCLA (which would qualify as not a stand alone brand) are gone, the biggest prizes out there are:

Virginia and Virginia Tech (as a pair) and Carolina and NC State (as a pair).
Why?
Each of those pairs control large markets (just like USC and UCLA controls the Los Angeles collegiate media market).
Virginia is the 12th most populous state with about 9 Million and North Carolina is the 9th most populous state with almost 11 Million. Large states each represented by public flagships (both ranked in the top 5 academically of all public institutions in the US) and both are supported by solid STEMs that are successful in their own right.

Since the only true value add left on the board is Notre Dame, the only strategy left for the B1G and the SEC is to play defense.

Why not include Duke, Florida State, Clemson, or Miami? None of those schools can or will actually control markets. The can enhance markets but they can not control them. They themselves are not sufficient as brands to enhance revenue in either the B1G or the SEC.
Why are we back to talking about markets when the conversation has long turned to "brands". Because all of the brands are gone, sans Notre Dame. What is left to bring value is market control.

It's interesting to note that the SEC has made 6 adds, five of which have been west of their original core. The B1G has made 6 adds three to the west and three to the east of their original core. The States of North Carolina and Virginia could fit in either direction.

The North Carolina/Virginia market represents the last and largest population area not represented by either the B1G or the SEC.
So in effect those 4 schools as a block (UVA, Virginia Tech, NC State and Carolina) hold the balance of realignment. Even if the states are split, their respective legislatures will insist both schools within a state will move as a pair.
It will be interesting to see how those 4 used their enormous leverage.
07-24-2022 10:33 AM
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PeteTheChop Online
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RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 10:33 AM)XLance Wrote:  The North Carolina/Virginia market represents the last and largest population area not represented by either the B1G or the SEC.
So in effect those 4 schools as a block (UVA, Virginia Tech, NC State and Carolina) hold the balance of realignment. Even if the states are split, their respective legislatures will insist both schools within a state will move as a pair.

And so the Florida and South Carolina legislatures will stand by and let FSU and Clemson get left in no-man's land?

Interesting
07-24-2022 11:10 AM
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PeteTheChop Online
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RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 10:33 AM)XLance Wrote:  To those that believe that the SEC and B1G will continue to add teams to expand to 20 or 24.

Any further expansion will be for defensive purposes.

Defensive purposes, offensive purposes.

Tomayto, tomahto

Potayto, potahto

A conference left in shambles is a conference left in shambles
07-24-2022 11:14 AM
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PlayBall! Online
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Post: #4
RE: Defensive expansion
Both the B1G and the SEC covet UVa and UNC, maybe only them {so not NCSU or VT, unfortunately}. Interesting to watch who will win them, and when.
07-24-2022 12:17 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 12:17 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Both the B1G and the SEC covet UVa and UNC, maybe only them {so not NCSU or VT, unfortunately}. Interesting to watch who will win them, and when.

Virginia Tech in many important ways is more desirable than Virginia in terms of audience and on field performance and size of the school.

UNC is the most preferable in North Carolina.

XLance says the group of Duke, Miami, FSU and Clemson were market adds? 3 of them are better national brands than UNC, and Clemson is a strong regional brand. It's the North Carolina and Viginia schools which are market adds, with UNC being a national brand in hoops, like Duke.

I don't see an issue with the SEC taking FSU, Miami and Clemson, or UNC and one of Duke / NC State, or one of the Virginia schools. Heck the SEC could take all 8. The issue is if it did only N.D. would find a B1G home and only 9 of 15 ACC schools could be placed. By splitting N.C. and Va, possibly 8 could be placed.
07-24-2022 02:16 PM
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Porcine Online
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Post: #6
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 02:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 12:17 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Both the B1G and the SEC covet UVa and UNC, maybe only them {so not NCSU or VT, unfortunately}. Interesting to watch who will win them, and when.

Virginia Tech in many important ways is more desirable than Virginia in terms of audience and on field performance and size of the school.

UNC is the most preferable in North Carolina.

XLance says the group of Duke, Miami, FSU and Clemson were market adds? 3 of them are better national brands than UNC, and Clemson is a strong regional brand. It's the North Carolina and Viginia schools which are market adds, with UNC being a national brand in hoops, like Duke.

I don't see an issue with the SEC taking FSU, Miami and Clemson, or UNC and one of Duke / NC State, or one of the Virginia schools. Heck the SEC could take all 8. The issue is if it did only N.D. would find a B1G home and only 9 of 15 ACC schools could be placed. By splitting N.C. and Va, possibly 8 could be placed.

The rest can merge with B12 and get us down to a P4. Then we wait out the Pac 12.
07-24-2022 02:48 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 02:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 12:17 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Both the B1G and the SEC covet UVa and UNC, maybe only them {so not NCSU or VT, unfortunately}. Interesting to watch who will win them, and when.

Virginia Tech in many important ways is more desirable than Virginia in terms of audience and on field performance and size of the school.

UNC is the most preferable in North Carolina.

XLance says the group of Duke, Miami, FSU and Clemson were market adds? 3 of them are better national brands than UNC, and Clemson is a strong regional brand. It's the North Carolina and Viginia schools which are market adds, with UNC being a national brand in hoops, like Duke.

I don't see an issue with the SEC taking FSU, Miami and Clemson, or UNC and one of Duke / NC State, or one of the Virginia schools. Heck the SEC could take all 8. The issue is if it did only N.D. would find a B1G home and only 9 of 15 ACC schools could be placed. By splitting N.C. and Va, possibly 8 could be placed.

Yep!
The SEC could take FSU, Miami and Clemson and win a huge victory.
Basically what I said was that the B1G could take UVa, Virginia Tech, NC State and Carolina even after the SEC was able to secure Miami, FSU and Clemson ......and still win the war. 04-cheers

The converse is also true if the SEC secured Carolina, NC State, UVa and Virginia Tech. That is why those four schools together hold a lot of leverage in future realignment.
07-24-2022 03:22 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 03:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 02:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 12:17 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Both the B1G and the SEC covet UVa and UNC, maybe only them {so not NCSU or VT, unfortunately}. Interesting to watch who will win them, and when.

Virginia Tech in many important ways is more desirable than Virginia in terms of audience and on field performance and size of the school.

UNC is the most preferable in North Carolina.

XLance says the group of Duke, Miami, FSU and Clemson were market adds? 3 of them are better national brands than UNC, and Clemson is a strong regional brand. It's the North Carolina and Viginia schools which are market adds, with UNC being a national brand in hoops, like Duke.

I don't see an issue with the SEC taking FSU, Miami and Clemson, or UNC and one of Duke / NC State, or one of the Virginia schools. Heck the SEC could take all 8. The issue is if it did only N.D. would find a B1G home and only 9 of 15 ACC schools could be placed. By splitting N.C. and Va, possibly 8 could be placed.

Yep!
The SEC could take FSU, Miami and Clemson and win a huge victory.
Basically what I said was that the B1G could take UVa, Virginia Tech, NC State and Carolina even after the SEC was able to secure Miami, FSU and Clemson ......and still win the war. 04-cheers

The converse is also true if the SEC secured Carolina, NC State, UVa and Virginia Tech. That is why those four schools together hold a lot of leverage in future realignment.

The B1G would win what war? The football war? No. The recruiting war? No. The revenue war? No. The academic war? Yes, but they already have that.

The ideal ending is the one I first proposed: Duke, Kansas, UNC, and UVa to the SEC. It helps our hoops without hurting football. It helps your football without hurting hoops.

Then the football schools of the B12 could be added to the ACC and improve their value and payout. Then a PAC division could work to make all more money.

The SEC would have the added market penetration, as dominant of a basketball presence as it has in football and baseball and with OU softball, and women's hoops.

Clemson, FSU, NC State, Miami, Ga Tech, Louisville, and Va Tech would have TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor, OSU, WVU, KSU, and ISU plus UCF, Houston,USF and Cincy to drive content value. Toss in BYU as a football only member and UConn as a hoops only member and voila ESPN has a value in the process.

N.D. flies the coup and we are all happier.

The SEC and B1G stop at 20 each. The new ACC hits 24 plus partials.
07-24-2022 03:36 PM
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PeteTheChop Online
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Post: #9
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 03:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 03:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 02:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 12:17 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Both the B1G and the SEC covet UVa and UNC, maybe only them {so not NCSU or VT, unfortunately}. Interesting to watch who will win them, and when.

Virginia Tech in many important ways is more desirable than Virginia in terms of audience and on field performance and size of the school.

UNC is the most preferable in North Carolina.

XLance says the group of Duke, Miami, FSU and Clemson were market adds? 3 of them are better national brands than UNC, and Clemson is a strong regional brand. It's the North Carolina and Viginia schools which are market adds, with UNC being a national brand in hoops, like Duke.

I don't see an issue with the SEC taking FSU, Miami and Clemson, or UNC and one of Duke / NC State, or one of the Virginia schools. Heck the SEC could take all 8. The issue is if it did only N.D. would find a B1G home and only 9 of 15 ACC schools could be placed. By splitting N.C. and Va, possibly 8 could be placed.

Yep!
The SEC could take FSU, Miami and Clemson and win a huge victory.
Basically what I said was that the B1G could take UVa, Virginia Tech, NC State and Carolina even after the SEC was able to secure Miami, FSU and Clemson ......and still win the war. 04-cheers

The converse is also true if the SEC secured Carolina, NC State, UVa and Virginia Tech. That is why those four schools together hold a lot of leverage in future realignment.

Clemson, FSU, NC State, Miami, Ga Tech, Louisville, and Va Tech would have TCU, Texas Tech, Baylor, OSU, WVU, KSU, and ISU plus UCF, Houston,USF and Cincy to drive content value. Toss in BYU as a football only member and UConn as a hoops only member and voila ESPN has a value in the process.

N.D. flies the coup and we are all happier.

The SEC and B1G stop at 20 each. The new ACC hits 24 plus partials.

No thank you
07-24-2022 04:18 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Defensive expansion
I’m not sold on the idea of 24 being profitable for either the Big 10 or the SEC unless the streaming services are willing to pay oodles for a large quantity of content and want the conference name to drive the perceived value of the game:

UNC vs NC St as an ACC game has a lack luster value. Swap out that ACC patch and field logo with an SEC logo and suddenly that game has much more value.

I can’t believe I’m about to make a soccer analogy here but I am. Those schools I mentioned are like a pair of Championship (Tier 2) schools but promote them to the Premier League and the mere fact that it’s Premier League skyrockets the value. Alabama and Ohio St are your Manchester United and Arsenal types—the mega brands that drive the overall value of the league.

If I’m a streaming service, I want the leagues to be big so the mounds of T3 content that I’ve got in inventory are inherently more valuable and the finite number of cable and OTA time slots send viewers who are fans of all the teams to my service because all 24 teams are going to be on streaming at some point.

If I’m a 3 or 4-letter network, I’m probably happy with 16 because that’s a manageable number and I can get a M3 conference’s rights to air on the side for relatively cheap.

Until the streamers become the dominant power in the collegiate sports media rights bidding process I think things are on pause.

How I think they could make 24-team leagues work is by phasing in the new schools payments gradually and awarding bonuses for OTA and cable appearances.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2022 05:46 PM by Fighting Muskie.)
07-24-2022 05:46 PM
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RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 05:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m not sold on the idea of 24 being profitable for either the Big 10 or the SEC unless the streaming services are willing to pay oodles for a large quantity of content and want the conference name to drive the perceived value of the game:

UNC vs NC St as an ACC game has a lack luster value. Swap out that ACC patch and field logo with an SEC logo and suddenly that game has much more value.

I can’t believe I’m about to make a soccer analogy here but I am. Those schools I mentioned are like a pair of Championship (Tier 2) schools but promote them to the Premier League and the mere fact that it’s Premier League skyrockets the value. Alabama and Ohio St are your Manchester United and Arsenal types—the mega brands that drive the overall value of the league.

If I’m a streaming service, I want the leagues to be big so the mounds of T3 content that I’ve got in inventory are inherently more valuable and the finite number of cable and OTA time slots send viewers who are fans of all the teams to my service because all 24 teams are going to be on streaming at some point.

If I’m a 3 or 4-letter network, I’m probably happy with 16 because that’s a manageable number and I can get a M3 conference’s rights to air on the side for relatively cheap.

Until the streamers become the dominant power in the collegiate sports media rights bidding process I think things are on pause.

How I think they could make 24-team leagues work is by phasing in the new schools payments gradually and awarding bonuses for OTA and cable appearances.

If you calculate values individually it's not. Add in a tripling of playoff money split fewer ways and a doubling of tourney revenue and voila it is. Toss in bargaining power and cut overhead and you have some gravy.
07-24-2022 05:53 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 05:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 05:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m not sold on the idea of 24 being profitable for either the Big 10 or the SEC unless the streaming services are willing to pay oodles for a large quantity of content and want the conference name to drive the perceived value of the game:

UNC vs NC St as an ACC game has a lack luster value. Swap out that ACC patch and field logo with an SEC logo and suddenly that game has much more value.

I can’t believe I’m about to make a soccer analogy here but I am. Those schools I mentioned are like a pair of Championship (Tier 2) schools but promote them to the Premier League and the mere fact that it’s Premier League skyrockets the value. Alabama and Ohio St are your Manchester United and Arsenal types—the mega brands that drive the overall value of the league.

If I’m a streaming service, I want the leagues to be big so the mounds of T3 content that I’ve got in inventory are inherently more valuable and the finite number of cable and OTA time slots send viewers who are fans of all the teams to my service because all 24 teams are going to be on streaming at some point.

If I’m a 3 or 4-letter network, I’m probably happy with 16 because that’s a manageable number and I can get a M3 conference’s rights to air on the side for relatively cheap.

Until the streamers become the dominant power in the collegiate sports media rights bidding process I think things are on pause.

How I think they could make 24-team leagues work is by phasing in the new schools payments gradually and awarding bonuses for OTA and cable appearances.

If you calculate values individually it's not. Add in a tripling of playoff money split fewer ways and a doubling of tourney revenue and voila it is. Toss in bargaining power and cut overhead and you have some gravy.

So are you saying that you think that 24 works now and is imminent then?

Is it simply a matter of giving the ACC teams that would be grabbed up (9-12) time to dissolve the league and the GOR?
07-24-2022 05:58 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 05:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 05:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 05:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m not sold on the idea of 24 being profitable for either the Big 10 or the SEC unless the streaming services are willing to pay oodles for a large quantity of content and want the conference name to drive the perceived value of the game:

UNC vs NC St as an ACC game has a lack luster value. Swap out that ACC patch and field logo with an SEC logo and suddenly that game has much more value.

I can’t believe I’m about to make a soccer analogy here but I am. Those schools I mentioned are like a pair of Championship (Tier 2) schools but promote them to the Premier League and the mere fact that it’s Premier League skyrockets the value. Alabama and Ohio St are your Manchester United and Arsenal types—the mega brands that drive the overall value of the league.

If I’m a streaming service, I want the leagues to be big so the mounds of T3 content that I’ve got in inventory are inherently more valuable and the finite number of cable and OTA time slots send viewers who are fans of all the teams to my service because all 24 teams are going to be on streaming at some point.

If I’m a 3 or 4-letter network, I’m probably happy with 16 because that’s a manageable number and I can get a M3 conference’s rights to air on the side for relatively cheap.

Until the streamers become the dominant power in the collegiate sports media rights bidding process I think things are on pause.

How I think they could make 24-team leagues work is by phasing in the new schools payments gradually and awarding bonuses for OTA and cable appearances.

If you calculate values individually it's not. Add in a tripling of playoff money split fewer ways and a doubling of tourney revenue and voila it is. Toss in bargaining power and cut overhead and you have some gravy.

So are you saying that you think that 24 works now and is imminent then?

Is it simply a matter of giving the ACC teams that would be grabbed up (9-12) time to dissolve the league and the GOR?

Yes, and in stages. SEC and B1G take 4 each and wait. The SEC takes 4 more and the B1G picks up Oregon, Washington, Stanford and maybe Cal to settle the issue out West. The Big 10 has a Western Division of 6, and adds N.D., Duke, Virginia and one of Piitsburgh and Syracuse essentially for a free release of ND (which comes first).

The SEC adds UNC, NC State (looks like a package deal this time) FSU and Clemson or Miami, and finishes out with Clemson or Miami, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech and Louisville and or possibly Kansas depending on other potentialities.

We both move to 24 and a new conference is created by those left behind.

Arizona, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Utah, Oregon State, Washington State, San Diego State, Colorado (8)

Baylor, Cincinnati, Houston, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State (8)

Boston College, Central Florida, Memphis, Syracuse, Wake Forest, South Florida, East Carolina, West Virginia (8)

Or you could drop 3 and add Army, Navy and Air Force.
07-24-2022 06:16 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 05:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m not sold on the idea of 24 being profitable for either the Big 10 or the SEC unless the streaming services are willing to pay oodles for a large quantity of content and want the conference name to drive the perceived value of the game:

UNC vs NC St as an ACC game has a lack luster value. Swap out that ACC patch and field logo with an SEC logo and suddenly that game has much more value.

I can’t believe I’m about to make a soccer analogy here but I am. Those schools I mentioned are like a pair of Championship (Tier 2) schools but promote them to the Premier League and the mere fact that it’s Premier League skyrockets the value. Alabama and Ohio St are your Manchester United and Arsenal types—the mega brands that drive the overall value of the league.

If I’m a streaming service, I want the leagues to be big so the mounds of T3 content that I’ve got in inventory are inherently more valuable and the finite number of cable and OTA time slots send viewers who are fans of all the teams to my service because all 24 teams are going to be on streaming at some point.

If I’m a 3 or 4-letter network, I’m probably happy with 16 because that’s a manageable number and I can get a M3 conference’s rights to air on the side for relatively cheap.

Until the streamers become the dominant power in the collegiate sports media rights bidding process I think things are on pause.

How I think they could make 24-team leagues work is by phasing in the new schools payments gradually and awarding bonuses for OTA and cable appearances.

The last time all this was happening, 10 years ago or so, I theorized that the SEC merging with the Big 12 would be a boon for everyone.

A 24 team league...

That configuration didn't include any ACC schools, but my concept was based on this: negotiating leverage rooted in basic economics...scarcity.

Think about it this way, the NFL has 32 teams and taps fewer markets than that. It's nationwide, however, and is essentially the only game in town when it comes to premier quality football. That has massive leverage despite the fact it has a large number of competitors. Of course, you can pick apart this scenario by examining the market dynamics, but I'm not suggesting a nationwide college football conference would make the same amount of money as the NFL. it's not about that, it's about the fact that unifying content under one roof creates new rules.

So even though a fair number of NFL teams suck in a given year and some fan bases aren't nearly as passionate as others, it doesn't matter. The sheer size and reach of the overall entity creates massive value. That value, in time, creates a better quality product. Think about what the NFL is today compared to just 30 years ago...

Notice this also, every major pro sport organization in this country has roughly the same number of teams. The mostly tap the same markets although there's a little shuffling here and there. Despite the fact that the other leagues are national, it doesn't mean they make as much money as the NFL, but the market dynamics are there for creating quality content and negotiating leverage with the TV partner.

I was always a fan of the SEC and Big 12 merging because I thought they had the most in common and it would have created a massive amount of content that was quality especially when you start playing more games internally. Think about that aspect as well. In the future, these leagues aren't going to be playing G5s and FCS and may even trim away some other "Power" schools from their schedules. They'll play more games internally and that will create a lot of valuable content especially at the T3 level.

As there is greater deregulation, there will be less necessity to maintain traditional concepts of much of anything whether that's schedules or scholarship rules or anything else. The important thing there is that consolidation allows for simpler and more uniform rules...because everyone's under the same roof.

Now I don't know if all the Power conferences will unite one day into one entity...I kind of doubt it...but that doesn't really affect the basic market dynamics of consolidation. A 24 team league has massive value as long as the members are significant in their own home markets. The primary reason for that is actually pretty simple. If ESPN or FOX or anyone else doesn't want to provide good compensation and they don't want to come to the table when appropriate then you just take your ball and go home. If ESPN loses the Big Ten then that sucks, but it's not so bad if there are 4 other Power conferences that can provide value. We're now rapidly reaching a phase where there's fewer competitors in town. We're basically in a space right now where 5 Power conferences don't exist...the legal designations on the NCAA rulebook are not relevant here.

The Power conferences actually hurt each other because in a way, they're competing for the same space...the same TV dollars, the same time slots, and they're pushing and shoving to one-up the other guy. What they should have been thinking about is coalescing their market power to flip the script. The schools should be competing with the networks, not with each other.

Let's say the Big 12 and SEC had merged 10 years ago. That entity would be a behemoth dealing with any network. Try to play hard ball with that conglomeration and you risk losing access to a disproportionate amount of good content. The same principle doesn't work if you're talking about CUSA and the Sun Belt merging...because it's not the premier product in its class. The market dynamics work if scarcity is combined with value. It's not so much about the numbers...it's about corning the market.

This is why I've never had a problem going to 24 or more. As long as we're talking schools that have value in the marketplace, we're doing nothing but helping ourselves by coalescing.

My little pet theory is this...the reason we're seeing networks say certain combinations/additions aren't "valuable" is because they're still in the position of highest leverage. ESPN and FOX and all the rest know darn well that there's ton of schools that have value in the marketplace if they were a part of a conglomeration, but these networks want to delay the influence of the conglomeration as much as possible.

So when a network advises the SEC or Big Ten that they need to go after "these" schools instead of "those over there, it's because they're self-interested. Now to be fair, the networks want the best match-ups. They're not arbitrarily valuing anyone. Their deceit is that they're unwilling to pay for certain additions because if they have to pay for larger leagues then they at least want some control over what those match-ups will be in the aftermath. If they have to spend a lot more money in the future to fund these leagues then they want the best bang for their buck.

For example, I don't believe for a second that Oregon and Washington wouldn't make money for the Big Ten regardless of Notre Dame's inclusion. Think about it, what motivation do these networks have to spend more money than they have to?

The "valuations" these networks offer are purely for their benefit.
07-24-2022 06:52 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Defensive expansion
Is ESPN really ok with giving 8 ACC schools a raise (and losing ND in the process)?

Like I said earlier, the mega conference model is attractive to streamers since it means acquiring a large amount of quality content for their catalogue. ESPN already owns T1-T3 rights to both the SEC and the ACC.

I feel like there’s some gamesmanship at play here in that ND as the Big 10’s 17th is bigger than any #17 the SEC could get but ESPN and the SEC feel that the sun value of their #s 18-24 are better than any #s 18-24 the Big 10 could get.

As an aside, I think you can narrow the SEC’s future potential member pool to:

Florida St
Clemson
UNC
UVA
Duke
NC St
Miami
GT
Louisville
Kansas

I personally like Kansas and Miami in the Big 10, and the other 8 with the SEC.
07-25-2022 06:38 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-25-2022 06:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is ESPN really ok with giving 8 ACC schools a raise (and losing ND in the process)?

Like I said earlier, the mega conference model is attractive to streamers since it means acquiring a large amount of quality content for their catalogue. ESPN already owns T1-T3 rights to both the SEC and the ACC.

I feel like there’s some gamesmanship at play here in that ND as the Big 10’s 17th is bigger than any #17 the SEC could get but ESPN and the SEC feel that the sun value of their #s 18-24 are better than any #s 18-24 the Big 10 could get.

As an aside, I think you can narrow the SEC’s future potential member pool to:

Florida St
Clemson
UNC
UVA
Duke
NC St
Miami
GT
Louisville
Kansas

I personally like Kansas and Miami in the Big 10, and the other 8 with the SEC.

You aren't thinking clearly about ND & ESPN. Right now ESPN has access to 2 away ND games on year 1 of a 2 year cycle and 3 away games on year 2 of that cycle. As a full member of the B1G ESPN has access to ~ 47% of ND's T1 and T2. ESPN gets more from ND in the Big Ten than they do with the Irish as a partial in the ACC.
07-25-2022 06:58 PM
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Big 12 fan too Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-25-2022 06:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is ESPN really ok with giving 8 ACC schools a raise (and losing ND in the process)?

Like I said earlier, the mega conference model is attractive to streamers since it means acquiring a large amount of quality content for their catalogue. ESPN already owns T1-T3 rights to both the SEC and the ACC.

I feel like there’s some gamesmanship at play here in that ND as the Big 10’s 17th is bigger than any #17 the SEC could get but ESPN and the SEC feel that the sun value of their #s 18-24 are better than any #s 18-24 the Big 10 could get.

As an aside, I think you can narrow the SEC’s future potential member pool to:

Florida St
Clemson
UNC
UVA
Duke
NC St
Miami
GT
Louisville
Kansas

I personally like Kansas and Miami in the Big 10, and the other 8 with the SEC.

If VTs value is equal to UVa, I think you could need UVa in BIG so that another ACC is P2. Duke could go either, or left out until CBB is redone. GT out. If Duke is BIG or out, nc st could be a transaction cost to SEC/ESPN.

SEC:
VT, UNC, Clemson, FSU, Miami, Duke, Louisville, KU

BIG:
UVA

That’s 8 P2 homes, which should be enough to strong arm a few more into a decent settlement. NC St would be a hiccup perhaps. Pitt, GT, NC St, Cuse, BC Wake added to a Big 18 keeps the repurposed ACCN in all current ACC markets except Louisville, VA, and South Carolina, while adding a ton of population. If ACCN isn’t used, then 1-3 schools could be out of luck.

If BIG/Fox isn’t involved, maybe VT is left out and UVa kept with UNC/Duke, which has value for whatever the ACCN becomes.

This obviously doesn’t work as well if ESPN subsidizes PAC, or another network mskes Big 18/20 happen
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2022 08:05 PM by Big 12 fan too.)
07-25-2022 07:59 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-25-2022 06:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-25-2022 06:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is ESPN really ok with giving 8 ACC schools a raise (and losing ND in the process)?

Like I said earlier, the mega conference model is attractive to streamers since it means acquiring a large amount of quality content for their catalogue. ESPN already owns T1-T3 rights to both the SEC and the ACC.

I feel like there’s some gamesmanship at play here in that ND as the Big 10’s 17th is bigger than any #17 the SEC could get but ESPN and the SEC feel that the sun value of their #s 18-24 are better than any #s 18-24 the Big 10 could get.

As an aside, I think you can narrow the SEC’s future potential member pool to:

Florida St
Clemson
UNC
UVA
Duke
NC St
Miami
GT
Louisville
Kansas

I personally like Kansas and Miami in the Big 10, and the other 8 with the SEC.

You aren't thinking clearly about ND & ESPN. Right now ESPN has access to 2 away ND games on year 1 of a 2 year cycle and 3 away games on year 2 of that cycle. As a full member of the B1G ESPN has access to ~ 47% of ND's T1 and T2. ESPN gets more from ND in the Big Ten than they do with the Irish as a partial in the ACC.

But how much longer is ESPN going to have 50% of the Big 10 rights? CBS or NBC are likely to be the ones who get their current deal. ESPN has their crown jewel and their side hustle programming. I don’t see room for Big 10 content in their new line up.
07-25-2022 08:43 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-25-2022 08:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-25-2022 06:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-25-2022 06:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Is ESPN really ok with giving 8 ACC schools a raise (and losing ND in the process)?

Like I said earlier, the mega conference model is attractive to streamers since it means acquiring a large amount of quality content for their catalogue. ESPN already owns T1-T3 rights to both the SEC and the ACC.

I feel like there’s some gamesmanship at play here in that ND as the Big 10’s 17th is bigger than any #17 the SEC could get but ESPN and the SEC feel that the sun value of their #s 18-24 are better than any #s 18-24 the Big 10 could get.

As an aside, I think you can narrow the SEC’s future potential member pool to:

Florida St
Clemson
UNC
UVA
Duke
NC St
Miami
GT
Louisville
Kansas

I personally like Kansas and Miami in the Big 10, and the other 8 with the SEC.

You aren't thinking clearly about ND & ESPN. Right now ESPN has access to 2 away ND games on year 1 of a 2 year cycle and 3 away games on year 2 of that cycle. As a full member of the B1G ESPN has access to ~ 47% of ND's T1 and T2. ESPN gets more from ND in the Big Ten than they do with the Irish as a partial in the ACC.

But how much longer is ESPN going to have 50% of the Big 10 rights? CBS or NBC are likely to be the ones who get their current deal. ESPN has their crown jewel and their side hustle programming. I don’t see room for Big 10 content in their new line up.

We'll see soon enough. But I doubt ESPN pulls their fingers out of the second most lucrative pie and will be counted upon to free up ND sooner rather than later.
07-25-2022 08:47 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Defensive expansion
(07-24-2022 03:22 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 02:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-24-2022 12:17 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Both the B1G and the SEC covet UVa and UNC, maybe only them {so not NCSU or VT, unfortunately}. Interesting to watch who will win them, and when.

Virginia Tech in many important ways is more desirable than Virginia in terms of audience and on field performance and size of the school.

UNC is the most preferable in North Carolina.

XLance says the group of Duke, Miami, FSU and Clemson were market adds? 3 of them are better national brands than UNC, and Clemson is a strong regional brand. It's the North Carolina and Viginia schools which are market adds, with UNC being a national brand in hoops, like Duke.

I don't see an issue with the SEC taking FSU, Miami and Clemson, or UNC and one of Duke / NC State, or one of the Virginia schools. Heck the SEC could take all 8. The issue is if it did only N.D. would find a B1G home and only 9 of 15 ACC schools could be placed. By splitting N.C. and Va, possibly 8 could be placed.

Yep!
The SEC could take FSU, Miami and Clemson and win a huge victory.
Basically what I said was that the B1G could take UVa, Virginia Tech, NC State and Carolina even after the SEC was able to secure Miami, FSU and Clemson ......and still win the war. 04-cheers

The converse is also true if the SEC secured Carolina, NC State, UVa and Virginia Tech. That is why those four schools together hold a lot of leverage in future realignment.

Spoken like a true, devoted Buckeye fan, IMO, and no offense to Fighting Muskie, but Ohio State fans are generally crazy, Fighting Muskie being one of the few rare exceptions.
07-28-2022 06:20 PM
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