(08-12-2022 10:02 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-12-2022 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-12-2022 01:45 PM)superdeluxe Wrote:  

(08-11-2022 09:51 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  The PNW doesn't give a sht about college football.

Eh. Based on Attendance/Revenue generated, I'm going to disagree (at least from a UW perspective).

UW does very well, especially considering they are in an NFL city.

UW is 19th in average attendance from 2016-2019 (prior to pandemic) with 67,769.
But Oregon is 36th with 54,192, in the bottom half of the P5 despite some very good seasons. Oregon St. is 35,002 putting them 63rd with only 6 P5 schools below them. Washington St. is 30,572, 72nd overall with only 4 P5s below them (Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Duke and Kansas). Even Kansas, back when they were mediocre, instead of one of the laughing stocks of FBS, would average in the 40s and even the 50s, far better than Oregon St. and Washington St.

Other than UW, there isn't a lot of fervor in the Pacific Northwest.

That is ridiculous. Oregon only averaged 54,192 fans. Autzen Stadium only holds 54,000 fans. They sellout their games! They had a 17 year streak that ended in 2016:
https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2016/09...ak_en.html
Oregon football's 110-game sellout streak is over.
In the Ducks' season-opener against UC Davis, 53,817 fans filed through the turnstiles of Autzen Stadium. A large crowd, sure, but for the first time in 17 years, it wasn't a capacity crowd.

You are using their attendance average to make a false claim of lack of fan support. You are doing the same thing with Oregon State and Washington State, both of whom play in smaller stadiums.

100% correct SoCal, you beat me to it

WSU's Stadium capacity is 32,900 for context and if you look at their TV viewership numbers, they are very high. NW football is alive and well.

Aight lemme clarify this since I'm the once that started the shtstorm here.

I've live in Jacksonsivlle, Florida; Chicago, Illinois; and obviously Pittsburgh prior to moving to Portland. I don't see people having porch or yard flags, nor do I see flags on people's cars. There's a few obviously, but not in mass like you see back east. Go to the bulk of sports bars when Oregon is playing an earlier game and those bars will have more B1G or B12 fans in them than Oregon or OSU. The football culture is completely night and day comparing the east to west. Heck even talking to random people at work and I tend to know more about the OSU Beavers than those that are fans. If people in the state of Oregon cared, why isn't Autzen Stadium at least 90k?

(08-12-2022 10:11 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(08-12-2022 10:02 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-12-2022 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-12-2022 01:45 PM)superdeluxe Wrote:  

(08-11-2022 09:51 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  The PNW doesn't give a sht about college football.

Eh. Based on Attendance/Revenue generated, I'm going to disagree (at least from a UW perspective).

UW does very well, especially considering they are in an NFL city.

UW is 19th in average attendance from 2016-2019 (prior to pandemic) with 67,769.
But Oregon is 36th with 54,192, in the bottom half of the P5 despite some very good seasons. Oregon St. is 35,002 putting them 63rd with only 6 P5 schools below them. Washington St. is 30,572, 72nd overall with only 4 P5s below them (Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Duke and Kansas). Even Kansas, back when they were mediocre, instead of one of the laughing stocks of FBS, would average in the 40s and even the 50s, far better than Oregon St. and Washington St.

Other than UW, there isn't a lot of fervor in the Pacific Northwest.

That is ridiculous. Oregon only averaged 54,192 fans. Autzen Stadium only holds 54,000 fans. They sellout their games! They had a 17 year streak that ended in 2016:
https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2016/09...ak_en.html
Oregon football's 110-game sellout streak is over.
In the Ducks' season-opener against UC Davis, 53,817 fans filed through the turnstiles of Autzen Stadium. A large crowd, sure, but for the first time in 17 years, it wasn't a capacity crowd.

You are using their attendance average to make a false claim of lack of fan support. You are doing the same thing with Oregon State and Washington State, both of whom play in smaller stadiums.

100% correct SoCal, you beat me to it

WSU's Stadium capacity is 32,900 for context and if you look at their TV viewership numbers, they are very high. NW football is alive and well.

If they had the fan support, they would have bigger stadiums. Oregon hasn't expanded their stadium since 2001 when it was only 41k. And Oregon averaged less than 54k in both 2018 and 2019. They do have up to 60k with SRO.

The Big isn't taking more Pac schools. No one is worth the $$ the Big needs to get. You only add if it increases everyone's take.

(08-12-2022 10:11 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(08-12-2022 10:02 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-12-2022 09:07 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-12-2022 01:45 PM)superdeluxe Wrote:  

(08-11-2022 09:51 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  The PNW doesn't give a sht about college football.

Eh. Based on Attendance/Revenue generated, I'm going to disagree (at least from a UW perspective).

UW does very well, especially considering they are in an NFL city.

UW is 19th in average attendance from 2016-2019 (prior to pandemic) with 67,769.
But Oregon is 36th with 54,192, in the bottom half of the P5 despite some very good seasons. Oregon St. is 35,002 putting them 63rd with only 6 P5 schools below them. Washington St. is 30,572, 72nd overall with only 4 P5s below them (Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Duke and Kansas). Even Kansas, back when they were mediocre, instead of one of the laughing stocks of FBS, would average in the 40s and even the 50s, far better than Oregon St. and Washington St.

Other than UW, there isn't a lot of fervor in the Pacific Northwest.

That is ridiculous. Oregon only averaged 54,192 fans. Autzen Stadium only holds 54,000 fans. They sellout their games! They had a 17 year streak that ended in 2016:
https://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/2016/09...ak_en.html
Oregon football's 110-game sellout streak is over.
In the Ducks' season-opener against UC Davis, 53,817 fans filed through the turnstiles of Autzen Stadium. A large crowd, sure, but for the first time in 17 years, it wasn't a capacity crowd.

You are using their attendance average to make a false claim of lack of fan support. You are doing the same thing with Oregon State and Washington State, both of whom play in smaller stadiums.

100% correct SoCal, you beat me to it

WSU's Stadium capacity is 32,900 for context and if you look at their TV viewership numbers, they are very high. NW football is alive and well.

So if Ball St. sells out their 16k stadium, does that mean they have great fan support?

WSU has the 91st biggest stadium in FBS. Only Wake is smaller among the P5. And every other P5 has at least a 40k stadium. Oregon St. is 75th. Only 3 privates-Wake, Vandy, Duke and Washington St. have smaller stadiums among the P5. Along with Utah, the Pac has the 3 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools. Arizona and Colorado give the Pac 5 of the 7 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools (although when the AAC schools move up, it will be 5 of 10).

Oregon, despite their success, is only 51st.

(08-13-2022 04:12 AM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  Aight lemme clarify this since I'm the once that started the shtstorm here.

I've live in Jacksonsivlle, Florida; Chicago, Illinois; and obviously Pittsburgh prior to moving to Portland. I don't see people having porch or yard flags, nor do I see flags on people's cars. There's a few obviously, but not in mass like you see back east. Go to the bulk of sports bars when Oregon is playing an earlier game and those bars will have more B1G or B12 fans in them than Oregon or OSU. The football culture is completely night and day comparing the east to west. Heck even talking to random people at work and I tend to know more about the OSU Beavers than those that are fans. If people in the state of Oregon cared, why isn't Autzen Stadium at least 90k?

I have also lived all over the country, San Diego, Chicago, Corpus Christi, Freehold NJ, Philadelphia, Virginia Beach, and multiple locations in Washington state. I frequently travel into Portland for business and I'm going to call BS on your statement.

On the East coast and more specifically in the SE, you do see numerous banners and flags. You definitely see them from time to time in the midwest but not like the SE. In the NW it's not flags you see, it's stickers on cars and customized license plates. Every day I drive to work (same for my trips to Portland) I see more cars than I'm willing to count with Washington, WSU, and Oregon stickers or license pates, not as many OSU but I still see them regularly. Just because we celebrate our schools differently than they do in the SE doesn't mean they're not being supported.

As far as stadium size is concerned, does it really matter? Autzen stadium can seat 54K and they sell it out repeatedly and on top of that they have great TV numbers.

I won't argue as much for WSU as far as stadium size is concerned, all I will say in their defense is that getting to the Palouse isn't the easiest and yet they sell out many of their games. Pullman is what I would refer to as the quintessential college town, population 34K and over an hour a way from the nearest city, rural as hell. Yet they fill their small stadium and have very good TV numbers.

(08-13-2022 07:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  So if Ball St. sells out their 16k stadium, does that mean they have great fan support?

WSU has the 91st biggest stadium in FBS. Only Wake is smaller among the P5. And every other P5 has at least a 40k stadium. Oregon St. is 75th. Only 3 privates-Wake, Vandy, Duke and Washington St. have smaller stadiums among the P5. Along with Utah, the Pac has the 3 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools. Arizona and Colorado give the Pac 5 of the 7 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools (although when the AAC schools move up, it will be 5 of 10).

Oregon, despite their success, is only 51st.

Who cares about stadium size? Iowa State will have the second largest stadium size in the New Big 12 in 2025 at 61,500. BYU will have the largest stadium capacity at 63,470. Iowa State fans show up, they support their team. Iowa State football has been bad over the years. They have had one first round draft pick in their entire football history, and that was in 1973. The size of their Stadium means nothing. Baylor's capacity is 45,140. TCU 47,000, Cincinnati 40,000 and Houston 40,000. Houston averaged 25,518 fans in 2019, 29,838 in 2018. None of this tells me anything about their football programs. It is pointless.

(08-13-2022 07:46 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  The Big isn't taking more Pac schools. No one is worth the $$ the Big needs to get. You only add if it increases everyone's take.

Sure they could. If they make the new additions take half-shares they would be worth adding.

Let's not discount Oregon and Phil Knight. He has the pull and the advertising dollars to get the Big 10 to listen and see things his way.

(08-13-2022 01:06 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 07:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  So if Ball St. sells out their 16k stadium, does that mean they have great fan support?

WSU has the 91st biggest stadium in FBS. Only Wake is smaller among the P5. And every other P5 has at least a 40k stadium. Oregon St. is 75th. Only 3 privates-Wake, Vandy, Duke and Washington St. have smaller stadiums among the P5. Along with Utah, the Pac has the 3 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools. Arizona and Colorado give the Pac 5 of the 7 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools (although when the AAC schools move up, it will be 5 of 10).

Oregon, despite their success, is only 51st.

Who cares about stadium size? Iowa State will have the second largest stadium size in the New Big 12 in 2025 at 61,500. BYU will have the largest stadium capacity at 63,470. Iowa State fans show up, they support their team. Iowa State football has been bad over the years. They have had one first round draft pick in their entire football history, and that was in 1973. The size of their Stadium means nothing. Baylor's capacity is 45,140. TCU 47,000, Cincinnati 40,000 and Houston 40,000. Houston averaged 25,518 fans in 2019, 29,838 in 2018. None of this tells me anything about their football programs. It is pointless.

Attendance tells loads about a football program. And it tells that the west coast doesn't support football anywhere near as well as the midwest and south.

(08-13-2022 02:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 01:06 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 07:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  So if Ball St. sells out their 16k stadium, does that mean they have great fan support?

WSU has the 91st biggest stadium in FBS. Only Wake is smaller among the P5. And every other P5 has at least a 40k stadium. Oregon St. is 75th. Only 3 privates-Wake, Vandy, Duke and Washington St. have smaller stadiums among the P5. Along with Utah, the Pac has the 3 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools. Arizona and Colorado give the Pac 5 of the 7 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools (although when the AAC schools move up, it will be 5 of 10).

Oregon, despite their success, is only 51st.

Who cares about stadium size? Iowa State will have the second largest stadium size in the New Big 12 in 2025 at 61,500. BYU will have the largest stadium capacity at 63,470. Iowa State fans show up, they support their team. Iowa State football has been bad over the years. They have had one first round draft pick in their entire football history, and that was in 1973. The size of their Stadium means nothing. Baylor's capacity is 45,140. TCU 47,000, Cincinnati 40,000 and Houston 40,000. Houston averaged 25,518 fans in 2019, 29,838 in 2018. None of this tells me anything about their football programs. It is pointless.

Attendance tells loads about a football program. And it tells that the west coast doesn't support football anywhere near as well as the midwest and south.

Sure, because selling out your stadium for 17 consecutive seasons, as Oregon has done, is not a sign of support because they only hold a capacity of 54,000. In 2019, Baylor averages 45,517 fans in their 45,140 seat stadium, but they don't support football because they only averaged 45,517 fans. TCU only averaged 42,881 in 2019. Houston at an average of 25,518 fans must really hate football. In the midwest in 2019, Illinois averaged 36,587, Indiana 41,244, Northwestern 37,736, Kansas 33,875, and Cincinnati 35,985. If I just looked at attendance I could assume that these areas don't support football.

This is a silly argument that you are making. It is pointless, but in your mind you are convinced that the west coast does not support football and attendance is your way of proving it. You don't prove it, but keep on trying. I will be headed out the door in less than two hours to attend the Rams-Chargers preseason game at SoFi Stadium. Both teams averaged over 70,000 fans last season.

(08-13-2022 03:42 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 02:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 01:06 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 07:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  So if Ball St. sells out their 16k stadium, does that mean they have great fan support?

WSU has the 91st biggest stadium in FBS. Only Wake is smaller among the P5. And every other P5 has at least a 40k stadium. Oregon St. is 75th. Only 3 privates-Wake, Vandy, Duke and Washington St. have smaller stadiums among the P5. Along with Utah, the Pac has the 3 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools. Arizona and Colorado give the Pac 5 of the 7 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools (although when the AAC schools move up, it will be 5 of 10).

Oregon, despite their success, is only 51st.

Who cares about stadium size? Iowa State will have the second largest stadium size in the New Big 12 in 2025 at 61,500. BYU will have the largest stadium capacity at 63,470. Iowa State fans show up, they support their team. Iowa State football has been bad over the years. They have had one first round draft pick in their entire football history, and that was in 1973. The size of their Stadium means nothing. Baylor's capacity is 45,140. TCU 47,000, Cincinnati 40,000 and Houston 40,000. Houston averaged 25,518 fans in 2019, 29,838 in 2018. None of this tells me anything about their football programs. It is pointless.

Attendance tells loads about a football program. And it tells that the west coast doesn't support football anywhere near as well as the midwest and south.

Sure, because selling out your stadium for 17 consecutive seasons, as Oregon has done, is not a sign of support because they only hold a capacity of 54,000. In 2019, Baylor averages 45,517 fans in their 45,140 seat stadium, but they don't support football because they only averaged 45,517 fans. TCU only averaged 42,881 in 2019. Houston at an average of 25,518 fans must really hate football. In the midwest in 2019, Illinois averaged 36,587, Indiana 41,244, Northwestern 37,736, Kansas 33,875, and Cincinnati 35,985. If I just looked at attendance I could assume that these areas don't support football.

This is a silly argument that you are making. It is pointless, but in your mind you are convinced that the west coast does not support football and attendance is your way of proving it. You don't prove it, but keep on trying. I will be headed out the door in less than two hours to attend the Rams-Chargers preseason game at SoFi Stadium. Both teams averaged over 70,000 fans last season.

Why is Oregon’s stadium so small?

Football is dying on the west coast.

(08-13-2022 03:42 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 02:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 01:06 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(08-13-2022 07:50 AM)bullet Wrote:  So if Ball St. sells out their 16k stadium, does that mean they have great fan support?

WSU has the 91st biggest stadium in FBS. Only Wake is smaller among the P5. And every other P5 has at least a 40k stadium. Oregon St. is 75th. Only 3 privates-Wake, Vandy, Duke and Washington St. have smaller stadiums among the P5. Along with Utah, the Pac has the 3 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools. Arizona and Colorado give the Pac 5 of the 7 smallest P5 stadiums among public schools (although when the AAC schools move up, it will be 5 of 10).

Oregon, despite their success, is only 51st.

Who cares about stadium size? Iowa State will have the second largest stadium size in the New Big 12 in 2025 at 61,500. BYU will have the largest stadium capacity at 63,470. Iowa State fans show up, they support their team. Iowa State football has been bad over the years. They have had one first round draft pick in their entire football history, and that was in 1973. The size of their Stadium means nothing. Baylor's capacity is 45,140. TCU 47,000, Cincinnati 40,000 and Houston 40,000. Houston averaged 25,518 fans in 2019, 29,838 in 2018. None of this tells me anything about their football programs. It is pointless.

Attendance tells loads about a football program. And it tells that the west coast doesn't support football anywhere near as well as the midwest and south.

Sure, because selling out your stadium for 17 consecutive seasons, as Oregon has done, is not a sign of support because they only hold a capacity of 54,000. In 2019, Baylor averages 45,517 fans in their 45,140 seat stadium, but they don't support football because they only averaged 45,517 fans. TCU only averaged 42,881 in 2019. Houston at an average of 25,518 fans must really hate football. In the midwest in 2019, Illinois averaged 36,587, Indiana 41,244, Northwestern 37,736, Kansas 33,875, and Cincinnati 35,985. If I just looked at attendance I could assume that these areas don't support football.

This is a silly argument that you are making. It is pointless, but in your mind you are convinced that the west coast does not support football and attendance is your way of proving it. You don't prove it, but keep on trying. I will be headed out the door in less than two hours to attend the Rams-Chargers preseason game at SoFi Stadium. Both teams averaged over 70,000 fans last season.

Its a perfectly logical argument. You just refuse to see reason because like Carrazano you are desperate for the survival of the Pac. You're an ostrich. Schools with demand expand their stadium. Oregon is at their limit.

Pro football has zero to do with college support. That is the truly silly argument. In fact, there's usually an inverse relationship.

SEC average attendance 2016-9 74,881
Big 10 65,213
Big 12 (w UT/OU) 57,068
Pac 12 (w USC/UCLA) 48,025
ACC 48,417

Its no coincidence that these attendance numbers also indicate rank in conference generated revenue. And the Big 12 R8 narrowly beat the Pac 12 and ACC as well.

Only teams that average over 60k fans per home game care about football. No one else matters, just because I said so.

(08-13-2022 08:44 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  Only teams that average over 60k fans per home game care about football. No one else matters, just because I said so.

From the TV standpoint, that's pretty much true. The rest are commodities. Do well in good years, not so good in off years.

Oregon beats Missouri and Vanderbilt in attendance from the SEC. That's it. They do beat 6 of the 14 Big 10 members, but are 13k behind #8 Iowa. They only beat the 2 privates and the Kansas schools in the Big 12. And that is after an exceptional decade 2010-9. Only Alabama, Ohio St., Clemson, Oklahoma, Boise St. and LSU had better winning %s than Oregon, so they should be at peak fan interest. Kentucky was 57-68 during the decade and outdrew Oregon from 2016-2019.

*bump*

Apparently, this is still relevant : )

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/c...935881007/

https://saturdayoutwest.com/pac-12/hayes...he-pac-12/

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...ghts-deal/

https://sports.yahoo.com/big-ten-expansi...23039.html

(08-11-2022 04:07 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  I've mentioned something along these lines elsewhere, but I think it's worth talking about in its own thread:

It looks like this really all comes down to WA.

The B10 could invite Stanford and 1 other school that isn't WA and the PAC still survives, and with a couple backfil to get to 10 or 12, should get an "ok" media deal.

Losing WA and any 1 other school, leaves the PAC hurt enough that the other PAC members may start looking for the door.

And I think the B10 knows that.

So I think - if the B10 goes after Stanford - that it'll be paired with Arizona state, Colorado, or Kansas. Even if they went for all 4, the PAC still survives.

So as long as WA stays in the PAC, they are likely to get enough of a media deal to continue to exist.

If WA leaves, then it's likely to result in "every conference for themself".

Stanford would prefer to stay in an intact PAC10. They don't want to pay players and they would be completely non-competitive in B!G football and BB.

(08-11-2022 08:10 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  ASU is a WAAAAAAAAAAAAY better “get” for the B1G than Arizona.

Sheer and Arizona have reason to be so interested in pre-emptively moving to the BigXII because there are a number of scenarios that could see them left out of certain realignment scenarios and ASU included. And I think the PAC sans ASU would welcome Arizona going to the BigXII alone. Given the departures of the LA schools, swapping AZ for SDSU would be a real upgrade for the other 4 corner schools.

And that would screw Zona over big time. They recruit heavily in SoCal including San Diego. Tucson has a population of a bit over 500K while their metro is a bit over a million.

(02-25-2023 07:43 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(08-11-2022 04:07 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  I've mentioned something along these lines elsewhere, but I think it's worth talking about in its own thread:

It looks like this really all comes down to WA.

The B10 could invite Stanford and 1 other school that isn't WA and the PAC still survives, and with a couple backfil to get to 10 or 12, should get an "ok" media deal.

Losing WA and any 1 other school, leaves the PAC hurt enough that the other PAC members may start looking for the door.

And I think the B10 knows that.

So I think - if the B10 goes after Stanford - that it'll be paired with Arizona state, Colorado, or Kansas. Even if they went for all 4, the PAC still survives.

So as long as WA stays in the PAC, they are likely to get enough of a media deal to continue to exist.

If WA leaves, then it's likely to result in "every conference for themself".

Stanford would prefer to stay in an intact PAC10. They don't want to pay players and they would be completely non-competitive in B!G football and BB.

Interesting.

If WA, OR, and the 4C schools all left the PAC, what do you think Stanford would do?

(02-26-2023 02:45 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(02-25-2023 07:43 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(08-11-2022 04:07 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  I've mentioned something along these lines elsewhere, but I think it's worth talking about in its own thread:

It looks like this really all comes down to WA.

The B10 could invite Stanford and 1 other school that isn't WA and the PAC still survives, and with a couple backfil to get to 10 or 12, should get an "ok" media deal.

Losing WA and any 1 other school, leaves the PAC hurt enough that the other PAC members may start looking for the door.

And I think the B10 knows that.

So I think - if the B10 goes after Stanford - that it'll be paired with Arizona state, Colorado, or Kansas. Even if they went for all 4, the PAC still survives.

So as long as WA stays in the PAC, they are likely to get enough of a media deal to continue to exist.

If WA leaves, then it's likely to result in "every conference for themself".

Stanford would prefer to stay in an intact PAC10. They don't want to pay players and they would be completely non-competitive in B!G football and BB.

Interesting.

If WA, OR, and the 4C schools all left the PAC, what do you think Stanford would do?

Stick with whatever UC-Berkley probably does. Backfill with more academically and culturally minded schools essentially becoming a western Ivy league that probably moves down to a G5 level athletically.

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