Keep in mind, this is a starting point. This is not the way it will always be.
The fact that a G5 has a path is good. They could have easily left us out to start with. But they didn't.

I think expansion to 16 will eventually happen. Reasoning being more games = more money and the interest being there.
Here's the key: the results of G5 in the CFP will probably dictate what happens when it goes to 16.
If the G5 gets obliterated year in and out, then most likely find a way to give even more spots to the P4.
If the G5 actually does well, then the greater the chances that more G5 spots will open up in the future.
The way it stands now, the Sun Belt is in a very good position to get that spot. If the conference continues to elevate itself, that 5th spot could be all but guaranteed to the Sun Belt. The rest of the G5 would then be left out and fighting for expansion to allow them in.

Day one of this new era we are in the conversation. No more transition crap. No more 'what ifs'. We have a legitimate path at a spot in the CFP. A path that very few in the P4 have.

(02-20-2024 12:14 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 12:09 PM)hburg Wrote:  Bad decision by the G5.

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Push too hard, and it would be 4+8.

It is what it is. We have a poor hand to bluff with.

Agreed. Anyone who thought it would stay 6-6 with PAC folding was kidding themselves.

It has been pretty well understood this was happening and if the G5 fought it would have been worse. This is the proper move to try and guarantee a spot starting in 26. There is a good chance that we see a 5-11 with 1the teams total before 2030 as you are already hearing the clamoring for it from the big conferences.

Let's start by beating North Carolina next year, then worry about these Madison Avenue issues. Hopefully, that was accidentally fortuitous.

Really poor and spineless decision by the 5 G5 presidents and the 5 G5 commissioners.
The change could not happen prior to 2026 without unanimous approval .

The G5 had already negotiated 6+6 and the P4 wanted to renege based on them eating their own.
The G5 had 2 guaranteed years of 2 representatives in the CFP and gave it away. You never surrender what has already been negotiated and signed.
They gave up 2 years to win the court of public opinion by winning a game or games in the playoff.

We had a chance for March Madness type Cinderella stories. 2X the opportunity flushed down the drain willingly.

Who cares if the P4 broke off in 2026? Or threatened to? They can still break off in 2026. Promises of future inclusion fall on deaf ears.

Quick comment.

In all honesty - SDSU was better than any G5 team this year.

(02-20-2024 02:25 PM)Dukester Wrote:  Quick comment.

In all honesty - SDSU was better than any G5 team this year.

Even JMU?

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(02-20-2024 02:25 PM)Dukester Wrote:  Quick comment.

In all honesty - SDSU was better than any G5 team this year.

No they were not. FCS is very weak right now and they would have been a top team in MEC/SBC, etc. but not better.

Take this past year for example. What G5 team would have beaten any team in the top 12 of the final rankings? The gap is only widening so were playing for the money and a to be the sacrificial lamb of the playoff. Making the playoffs would still be a huge accomplishment but getting blown out in the last game of the year kinda dampens things for me. Especially if the transfer window stays the same. Kids are still going to get poached by the P4 even before the playoff games which will only make it worse

I used to be against it but I'm starting to lean more into the idea of a G5 playoff.

(02-20-2024 02:49 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Take this past year for example. What G5 team would have beaten any team in the top 12 of the final rankings? The gap is only widening so were playing for the money and a to be the sacrificial lamb of the playoff. Making the playoffs would still be a huge accomplishment but getting blown out in the last game of the year kinda dampens things for me. Especially if the transfer window stays the same. Kids are still going to get poached by the P4 even before the playoff games which will only make it worse

I used to be against it but I'm starting to lean more into the idea of a G5 playoff.

Any given Saturday. There were top G5’s that could compete and win against the top 5-12.

(02-20-2024 02:55 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 02:49 PM)fishingduke12 Wrote:  Take this past year for example. What G5 team would have beaten any team in the top 12 of the final rankings? The gap is only widening so were playing for the money and a to be the sacrificial lamb of the playoff. Making the playoffs would still be a huge accomplishment but getting blown out in the last game of the year kinda dampens things for me. Especially if the transfer window stays the same. Kids are still going to get poached by the P4 even before the playoff games which will only make it worse

I used to be against it but I'm starting to lean more into the idea of a G5 playoff.

Any given Saturday. There were top G5’s that could compete and win against the top 5-12.

I'm sorry but no there werent. Say what you want about Liberty's SOS but they were a top 10 G5 team and Oregon could have hung 70 on them if they wanted. Troy played a top 15 team and lost 42-13. App played UNC when they were 17th and lost in OT, UNC then fell off a cliff. SMU played Oklahoma when then were 18th and lost by 17.

I believe any given saturday applies to the regular season but going up against a locked in top 12 team with weeks of prep is a different animal. Not the same but Cincinnati was one of the best g5 teams in the last decade plus and never stood a chance against alabama

This is why there needs to be an expanded playoff.
People think it is impossible for G5 teams to pull an upset or upsets.

It isn’t impossible. That is the greatness of sports. Underdogs surprise us and become the most memorable games of all time.
Do you believe in miracles?
You should.

Shame on Gill and on Troy’s president for voting to unwind the 6+6 everyone had already agreed to for 2024 and 2025.
It will be even more of a shame if the MWC gets the sole G5 autobid in the next 2 years and the Sun Belt is shutout as the 6th ranked conference champion.

I don’t get it.

It wreaks of payola. And journalists should dig deep to find out why G5 conferences unanimously agreed to give up what they already had in hand.

(02-20-2024 03:45 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  This is why there needs to be an expanded playoff.
People think it is impossible for G5 teams to pull an upset or upsets.

It isn’t impossible. That is the greatness of sports. Underdogs surprise us and become the most memorable games of all time.
Do you believe in miracles?
You should.

Shame on Gill and on Troy’s president for voting to unwind the 6+6 everyone had already agreed to for 2024 and 2025.
It will be even more of a shame if the MWC gets the sole G5 autobid in the next 2 years and the Sun Belt is shutout as the 6th ranked conference champion.

I don’t get it.

It wreaks of payola. And journalists should dig deep to find out why G5 conferences unanimously agreed to give up what they already had in hand.

They signed off because reduced access is better than no access in the future. They all know they lack the leverage to play hardball to keep it.

At this point the P2 largely drive the ship with some input from the M2. The G6 are essentially going to be hostages in this arrangement.

Mark Keenum should have been stated, "...this change will be well received by student-athletes, coaches and fans of the P4 conferences."

(02-20-2024 01:45 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Really poor and spineless decision by the 5 G5 presidents and the 5 G5 commissioners.
The change could not happen prior to 2026 without unanimous approval .

The G5 had already negotiated 6+6 and the P4 wanted to renege based on them eating their own.
The G5 had 2 guaranteed years of 2 representatives in the CFP and gave it away. You never surrender what has already been negotiated and signed.
They gave up 2 years to win the court of public opinion by winning a game or games in the playoff.

We had a chance for March Madness type Cinderella stories. 2X the opportunity flushed down the drain willingly.

Who cares if the P4 broke off in 2026? Or threatened to? They can still break off in 2026. Promises of future inclusion fall on deaf ears.

The second part of the bold sentence is what negates the first part. As a whole, FBS agreed to 6+6 but this was never done with the intention of 2 G5 teams making it. The P conferences eating their own changed the numbers but the core idea remains the same: allocate 1 spot for each P conference and 1 shared spot for the G5.

Playing hardball just to hang onto 2 G5 spots for 2 years could've resulted in the SEC and B1G pushing for 12 at large spots, completely eliminating autobids and the G5 most years.

People are speculating what could have happened in 2 years. It can still happen in 2 years even though the G5 conceded to the P4’s wishes now.
Let me know how that IOU turns out.
Dumb, dumb, dumb decision.

The P5(now P4) made their bed and they should have been made to lie in it for 2 years.

No changes could be made without unanimous approval for the next 2 years of the current contract.
Changes for 2026 and beyond can be made with a simple majority.
It is in the bylaws of the CFP.

The G5 had a 2 year window to win the hearts of America by having 2x teams with a chance to win CFP games against the prestigious P4. Twice the opportunity.

Think about why even casual fans love March Madness. It is because of the Cinderella stories and why media is willing to pay big bucks to broadcast it. With some wins in the CFP, the court of public opinion would not allow a lack of continued access for G5’s ongoing.

Gill and the Troy president owe everyone a public explanation as do the other 4 G5 presidents and commissioners.

(02-20-2024 05:41 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  People are speculating what could have happened in 2 years. It can still happen in 2 years even though the G5 conceded to the P4’s wishes now.
Let me know how that IOU turns out.
Dumb, dumb, dumb decision.

The P5(now P4) made their bed and they should have been made to lie in it for 2 years.

No changes could be made without unanimous approval for the next 2 years of the current contract.
Changes for 2026 and beyond can be made with a simple majority.
It is in the bylaws of the CFP.

The G5 had a 2 year window to win the hearts of America by having 2x teams with a chance to win CFP games against the prestigious P4. Twice the opportunity.

Think about why even casual fans love March Madness. It is because of the Cinderella stories and why media is willing to pay big bucks to broadcast it. With some wins in the CFP, the court of public opinion would not allow a lack of continued access for G5’s ongoing.

Gill and the Troy president owe everyone a public explanation as do the other 4 G5 presidents and commissioners.

There's the key point right there. The P4 commissioners could have said "you know what Keith, if you're going to be a pain in the ass about it, maybe we should just keep it at a four-team playoff until this contract runs out and then revisit the idea."

6+6 or 5 + 7. The math ends up the same over the next 2 years.

6 + 6
SEC, Big10, Big 12, ACC - get spots. PAC10 gets a spot (2) and does whatever they need to keep a spot for 2 years

A G5 spot is there.

or 5 + 7
SEC, Big10, Big 12, ACC - get spots.

A G5 spot is there plus Oregon State and Washington State. While there may be some sentimental bias for these two schools, they need some type of merger or expansion to be viable.

Either situation have likely the PAC and MWC trying to create something to appear as a conference.

Either situation - does not get more than 1 AAC, CUSA, MAC, or Sun Belt team into the CFP.

5 + 7 might keep the top 4 conferences and the NCAA afloat a bit longer, but it is clear 2 conferences are making the rules and deciding the table scraps to share.

ACC better watch their butts or someone could take that 4th bye from them.

Fl St put themselves in an interesting spot.

An outcast now in the ACC, because they're a pain.

Clemson much smarter - kept a low profile and has options, plus leverage.

ACC - inching closer to the day of reckoning and who is in it or not. Big 12, chose to stay close and watch the PAC fall apart.

Either both ACC/Big 12 figure a way to stay as P4 or the divide continues to mount.

For the G5 through 8.

Four conferences (regional), guaranteed 2 bids would be ideal in this $driven situation.

Regions:
1) NE - VA and above (East of KC)
2) SE - NC and Below (East of KC)
3) NW - West of KC and anything north of Oklahoma (including California)
4) SW - West of KC and anything south of Oklahoma (excluding Texas)

(02-20-2024 06:41 PM)Mettlen Wrote:  

(02-20-2024 05:41 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  People are speculating what could have happened in 2 years. It can still happen in 2 years even though the G5 conceded to the P4’s wishes now.
Let me know how that IOU turns out.
Dumb, dumb, dumb decision.

The P5(now P4) made their bed and they should have been made to lie in it for 2 years.

No changes could be made without unanimous approval for the next 2 years of the current contract.
Changes for 2026 and beyond can be made with a simple majority.
It is in the bylaws of the CFP.

The G5 had a 2 year window to win the hearts of America by having 2x teams with a chance to win CFP games against the prestigious P4. Twice the opportunity.

Think about why even casual fans love March Madness. It is because of the Cinderella stories and why media is willing to pay big bucks to broadcast it. With some wins in the CFP, the court of public opinion would not allow a lack of continued access for G5’s ongoing.

Gill and the Troy president owe everyone a public explanation as do the other 4 G5 presidents and commissioners.

There's the key point right there. The P4 commissioners could have said "you know what Keith, if you're going to be a pain in the ass about it, maybe we should just keep it at a four-team playoff until this contract runs out and then revisit the idea."

Seems unlikely to me they could have unwound the 6+6 format agreed to without unanimous consent, however they certainly have leverage for 2026+