George Washington To Downgrade?

Quote:I first mentioned a desire for more investment and interest in the program from the school administration in order to bring the program back into a nationally competitive spot. Without increased funding we will more than likely be stuck in the bottom half of the A-10 for the foreseeable future.

With basketball being the sport most likely to turn a profit for the University, it is necessary for the men’s basketball team to be successful. If we cannot find that success in this Conference, I told him I think that it may be time to move to a lower league than the A-10.

A-10 schools must be having budget issues.

Quote:He agreed in part about how critical money is in today’s college sports environment, saying that some progress had been made, especially regarding the new coaching staff. However, in the context of this casual meeting, President Wrighton would not go farther in his discussion of giving more money to the program.

The main challenge he did mention was that even when we have great players or a successful year, with the state of college basketball concerning transfers and NIL, it is hard for a mid-major school to return the necessary pieces to be competitive for multiple years. He called this unfair, as it creates greater challenges for schools like GW.

Sorry, I corrected my title.

(09-04-2022 11:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  George Washington To Downgrade?

Quote:I first mentioned a desire for more investment and interest in the program from the school administration in order to bring the program back into a nationally competitive spot. Without increased funding we will more than likely be stuck in the bottom half of the A-10 for the foreseeable future.

With basketball being the sport most likely to turn a profit for the University, it is necessary for the men’s basketball team to be successful. If we cannot find that success in this Conference, I told him I think that it may be time to move to a lower league than the A-10.

A-10 schools must be having budget issues.

Quote:He agreed in part about how critical money is in today’s college sports environment, saying that some progress had been made, especially regarding the new coaching staff. However, in the context of this casual meeting, President Wrighton would not go farther in his discussion of giving more money to the program.

The main challenge he did mention was that even when we have great players or a successful year, with the state of college basketball concerning transfers and NIL, it is hard for a mid-major school to return the necessary pieces to be competitive for multiple years. He called this unfair, as it creates greater challenges for schools like GW.

You totally misinterpreted this piece. That is the interviewer, who wants more funding for GWU sports, telling the president that the interviewer’s opinion is that they should think about dropping down if they’re not willing to provide more funding. That is NOT the GWU president’s opinion.

A10 is a good academic neck of the woods for GW with GMU, VCU and Richmond all in that conference. Important schools in that regional market.

The longer term perspective on the A10 is its falling behind the G5 conferences financially and eventually its going to hurt them in basketball.

(09-04-2022 11:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  George Washington To Downgrade?

Quote:I first mentioned a desire for more investment and interest in the program from the school administration in order to bring the program back into a nationally competitive spot. Without increased funding we will more than likely be stuck in the bottom half of the A-10 for the foreseeable future.

With basketball being the sport most likely to turn a profit for the University, it is necessary for the men’s basketball team to be successful. If we cannot find that success in this Conference, I told him I think that it may be time to move to a lower league than the A-10.

A-10 schools must be having budget issues.

Quote:He agreed in part about how critical money is in today’s college sports environment, saying that some progress had been made, especially regarding the new coaching staff. However, in the context of this casual meeting, President Wrighton would not go farther in his discussion of giving more money to the program.

The main challenge he did mention was that even when we have great players or a successful year, with the state of college basketball concerning transfers and NIL, it is hard for a mid-major school to return the necessary pieces to be competitive for multiple years. He called this unfair, as it creates greater challenges for schools like GW.

Good find. With so many east coast leagues where basketball could thrive, it has to cost a lot of fly all of their sports to the Midwest to compete in non revenue sports. GW has a high enough profile as an academic school that they don’t gain much being an A10 bottom feeder instead of being in one of the leagues they are in the middle of geographically.

Does DavidSt have obscure sites like this bookmarked under folders for all 365+ D1 teams?

So George Washington is going to downgrade but some random D3 school is going to find the $ to upgrade and offer FCS FB?

The streets are wet. It's raining. Thus, wet streets must cause rain.

I do think you're going to see some division within the A10 with respect to handling the NIL and transfer portal changes. You'll have schools who financially can't commit or keep up to retain recruits, but also programs who philosophically aren't onboard with it. Fordham feels like they've been in the latter for some time now. This might be GWU starting to follow that path.

For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

Mark Wrighton is the former chancellor of St. Louis' Washington University (D3) and holding the chair as an interim president at GW during an extended presidential search. Of course he's going to like D3, but he really has no say in that going forward.

(09-05-2022 08:29 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  So George Washington is going to downgrade but some random D3 school is going to find the $ to upgrade and offer FCS FB?

Exactly. Ten person school is upgrading to FBS but school with $million+ endowment is folding. Same logic persists.

(09-05-2022 08:43 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The streets are wet. It's raining. Thus, wet streets must cause rain.

Nailed it. I wonder how good the rating were for Beavers destruction of Broncos the other night? Shocking to no one that Boise State lost on the road to P5 again.

(09-05-2022 08:56 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I do think you're going to see some division within the A10 with respect to handling the NIL and transfer portal changes. You'll have schools who financially can't commit or keep up to retain recruits, but also programs who philosophically aren't onboard with it. Fordham feels like they've been in the latter for some time now. This might be GWU starting to follow that path.

For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

You put Fordham with the anti-NIL group? Not sure about that, remember they were the first to want to add scholarships to Patriot League football.

(09-05-2022 09:32 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 08:56 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I do think you're going to see some division within the A10 with respect to handling the NIL and transfer portal changes. You'll have schools who financially can't commit or keep up to retain recruits, but also programs who philosophically aren't onboard with it. Fordham feels like they've been in the latter for some time now. This might be GWU starting to follow that path.

For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

You put Fordham with the anti-NIL group? Not sure about that, remember they were the first to want to add scholarships to Patriot League football.

There’s a big difference between the two, and the core of what a scholarship covers idealogically in PFL, where the standards for scholarships are considerably higher than elsewhere, and you really can’t get one there unless you could qualify academically to begin with. The irony is that both Fordham and G-Dubs could be the schools who really can handle and go all-in on NIL. It’s that, philosophically and academically, is the school fine with that?

(09-05-2022 08:56 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

Dayton and Saint Louis tagging along with the Zags to the Big East would solve 2/3 of that "problem"

(09-05-2022 08:56 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I do think you're going to see some division within the A10 with respect to handling the NIL and transfer portal changes. You'll have schools who financially can't commit or keep up to retain recruits, but also programs who philosophically aren't onboard with it. Fordham feels like they've been in the latter for some time now. This might be GWU starting to follow that path.

I tend to agree. The school has money, but doesn't have a big booster community or a big t-shirt fanbase who is going to be excited that the point guard is hawking e-bikes or Mens' Wearhouse or Safeway groceries or Arlignton Family Dentists or whatever.

Quote:For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

Yes, a good number of A-10 members are there because they've been there forever, another group of A-10 members are there because it's the highest available step on the ladder.

For VCU, Dayton, SLU, I'm sure there are conversations of "what do we need to do to get included in a 100-150 school breakaway." Schools like George Mason, UMAss, Rhode Island, St Joe's, Davidson have to at least think about how they might have an outside shot. For GW, Richmond, Fordham it's not happening, they know it and they're resigned to whatever happens.

GW isn't really positioned to be included in a breakaway, but it's also not a big philosophical challenge for the school. If student-athletes get declared employees, that's not the biggest issue for GW. If congressional interns get declared to be employees, a whole lot of fiancial aid packages and FAFSA numbers need to be recalculated.

(09-05-2022 11:03 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 08:56 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I do think you're going to see some division within the A10 with respect to handling the NIL and transfer portal changes. You'll have schools who financially can't commit or keep up to retain recruits, but also programs who philosophically aren't onboard with it. Fordham feels like they've been in the latter for some time now. This might be GWU starting to follow that path.

I tend to agree. The school has money, but doesn't have a big booster community or a big t-shirt fanbase who is going to be excited that the point guard is hawking e-bikes or Mens' Wearhouse or Safeway groceries or Arlignton Family Dentists or whatever.

Quote:For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

Yes, a good number of A-10 members are there because they've been there forever, another group of A-10 members are there because it's the highest available step on the ladder.

For VCU, Dayton, SLU, I'm sure there are conversations of "what do we need to do to get included in a 100-150 school breakaway." Schools like George Mason, UMAss, Rhode Island, St Joe's, Davidson have to at least think about how they might have an outside shot. For GW, Richmond, Fordham it's not happening, they know it and they're resigned to whatever happens.

GW isn't really positioned to be included in a breakaway, but it's also not a big philosophical challenge for the school. If student-athletes get declared employees, that's not the biggest issue for GW. If congressional interns get declared to be employees, a whole lot of fiancial aid packages and FAFSA numbers need to be recalculated.

Richmond has a longer history as a strong basketball program than VCU. I wouldn't put Fordham or Richmond behind much of your middle group.

(09-05-2022 11:10 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 11:03 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(09-05-2022 08:56 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I do think you're going to see some division within the A10 with respect to handling the NIL and transfer portal changes. You'll have schools who financially can't commit or keep up to retain recruits, but also programs who philosophically aren't onboard with it. Fordham feels like they've been in the latter for some time now. This might be GWU starting to follow that path.

I tend to agree. The school has money, but doesn't have a big booster community or a big t-shirt fanbase who is going to be excited that the point guard is hawking e-bikes or Mens' Wearhouse or Safeway groceries or Arlignton Family Dentists or whatever.

Quote:For programs like VCU, Dayton, and SLU, these changes could put them at odds with some of the rest of the conference.

Yes, a good number of A-10 members are there because they've been there forever, another group of A-10 members are there because it's the highest available step on the ladder.

For VCU, Dayton, SLU, I'm sure there are conversations of "what do we need to do to get included in a 100-150 school breakaway." Schools like George Mason, UMAss, Rhode Island, St Joe's, Davidson have to at least think about how they might have an outside shot. For GW, Richmond, Fordham it's not happening, they know it and they're resigned to whatever happens.

GW isn't really positioned to be included in a breakaway, but it's also not a big philosophical challenge for the school. If student-athletes get declared employees, that's not the biggest issue for GW. If congressional interns get declared to be employees, a whole lot of fiancial aid packages and FAFSA numbers need to be recalculated.

Richmond has a longer history as a strong basketball program than VCU. I wouldn't put Fordham or Richmond behind much of your middle group.

The difference between the middle (Davidson) group and the bottom (GW) group isn't their chances of getting picked up in a breakaway--it's that they have accepted it already.

VCU would get a look from The Powers That Be, if they look at anyone outside the FBS conferences and the Big East. Richmond just won't get considered at that point. At that point, the G5 and the Big East aren't "safe". Nobody is "safe" outside of 20-30 Big Ten and SEC schools.

There's no strategic case for GW or Richmond to go spending a bunch of money trying to chase NIL and pay-for-play dreams in hopes of getting a spot in a breakaway. For VCU, Dayton, SLU, there absolutely is a strategic case for doing that, even if it's not likely to work. (And no, this doesn't mean that Dayton should upgrade to the scholarship MVFC and SLU and VCU start FCS teams: That aint' it, chief)

EDIT: As a rule of thumb, if you haven't put much program effort into being consistently competitive in the A-10, I doubt you're going to have a philosophical makeover and start challenging and campaigning for a Big East invite or the equivalent.

This won’t be the last university to do this.

(09-04-2022 11:13 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  George Washington To Downgrade?

Quote:I first mentioned a desire for more investment and interest in the program from the school administration in order to bring the program back into a nationally competitive spot. Without increased funding we will more than likely be stuck in the bottom half of the A-10 for the foreseeable future.

With basketball being the sport most likely to turn a profit for the University, it is necessary for the men’s basketball team to be successful. If we cannot find that success in this Conference, I told him I think that it may be time to move to a lower league than the A-10.

To be clear, this is a kid from the campus radio station, saying he thinks they should move to a lower-level league.

Quote:He agreed in part about how critical money is in today’s college sports environment, saying that some progress had been made, especially regarding the new coaching staff. However, in the context of this casual meeting, President Wrighton would not go farther in his discussion of giving more money to the program.

College president was nice to snot nosed 20 year old know it all kid, didn't make any promises. (Interim college president, as someone pointed out)

Quote:The main challenge he did mention was that even when we have great players or a successful year, with the state of college basketball concerning transfers and NIL, it is hard for a mid-major school to return the necessary pieces to be competitive for multiple years. He called this unfair, as it creates greater challenges for schools like GW.

Another challenge I'd mention is that it's not like there's an obvious lower-level league for GW to jump to. The Colonial is almost as spread out as the A-10, from Boston to North Carolina. The MAAC is Catholic focused, the NEC is football focused, America East is mostly state schools, either state flagships or second-best-public-in-the-state type schools like UMass-Lowell and Towson.

The interim college president rambles and speculates about how VAnderbilt doesn't really belong in the SEC except for baseball, and how if he had been there at the creation GW would be Division III like Washington U and Case Western Reserve and Carnegie Mellon and NYU (my list not his).

Better headline: Undergrad asks College PResident question.