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How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #21
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-29-2023 10:52 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Coliseum is basically on USC's campus.

It's like when Dyche Stadium/Ryan Field is listed as off campus. I mean, technically it's correct, but it's less than a mile walk from Northwestern's campus. For all intents and purposes, that's close enough to effectively be on an on campus stadium, especially when it's an easy neighborhood walk.
01-29-2023 11:53 PM
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bryanw1995 Online
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Post: #22
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-29-2023 10:52 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Coliseum is basically on USC's campus.

Is it? I've never been, but when I just googled it I got "13.9 miles" from USC to Rose Bowl.

Ah, I see, USC has their own stadium, it's UCLA that travels to the Rose Bowl.
01-30-2023 12:36 AM
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Post: #23
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
Correct, USC doesn't play at the Rose Bowl, UCLA does. The Coliseum doesn't belong to USC but they are the primary tenant.
01-30-2023 12:40 AM
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Milwaukee Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-29-2023 01:13 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  I don't think it's important. Memphis was likely next in line for the Big 12. Markets, school size and academics play a bigger role.

Agree - having a quality stadium with capacity for sizable attendance that's not too distant from campus is what's most important.

It doesn't have to be on campus, but obviously, the closer the better to maximize student attendance. Yet, some schools are better off playing in nearby NFL stadiums, rather than building a chintzy, small on-campus stadium.

Pitt is an example of a school that had a large on-campus stadium, but gave it up to play in an NFL stadium. Most seem to agree that they made the right decision.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2023 04:14 AM by Milwaukee.)
01-30-2023 04:14 AM
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Post: #25
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 04:14 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  [quote='_C2_' pid='18749981' dateline='1674972784']
Pitt is an example of a school that had a large on-campus stadium, but gave it up to play in an NFL stadium. Most seem to agree that they made the right decision.

UPMC was a huge reason for that though, and the Steelers/Panthers home is not far from UPitt's campus at all.

One that really worries me is UNLV, but they are a G5. UNLV gave up the Silver Bowl to play at the Raiders new stadium, but I continue to have my doubts about that arrangement long-term.
01-30-2023 06:43 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #26
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
I agree with Matt on this: it depends. I feel it certainly does for the Big Ten. Over the years, it's been tossed around from different places that Rutgers needed to have one for Big Ten consideration. Playing up at the Meadowlands may have made more sense, but, that's not the track lane the Big Ten allegedly wanted Rutgers to run. I've heard it said (long ago) that when Pitt decided to outsource its football to the pro stadium, this may have "put to bed" the idea of joining the Big Ten. Obviously for Pitt, it didn't matter for the ACC, and maybe even the Big XII.

There was definitely a trend there a little more than a decade or so ago where it seemed that breaking ground on a stadium (or a major renovation) meant someone was going somewhere. Tulane, Charlotte, TCU, Houston...

What I think it actually tended to demonstrate was spending ability, and the overall strength and resource dedication of an athletic program. If you can build it, and without state help, you could probably hang. The stadium being just one piece of it: on-campus operations and staffing that go along with it. It's a big positive for optics.

It's kind of why I think Colorado State isn't in a major conference, and why Stony Brook isn't FBS at this time. Colorado State built its stadium, but it didn't do it through successful fundraising, and had state government allow for fund reallocation. That's not a good look. And Stony Brook fell short there, too, only its then-governor wouldn't allow SBU to do what CSU did out west. And I think the stadium out in Fort Collins, as cool as it looks, still exposes the more glaring issue for the school: infrastructure and support, and the lack thereof for major-level athletics involvement.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2023 11:02 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
01-30-2023 07:57 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #27
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 12:40 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Correct, USC doesn't play at the Rose Bowl, UCLA does. The Coliseum doesn't belong to USC but they are the primary tenant.

And the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum is located at the USC campus fringe. Very convenient for students to walk to.

From Wiki:

The Coliseum is jointly owned by the State of California's Sixth District Agricultural Association, Los Angeles County, and the city of Los Angeles. It is managed and operated by the Auxiliary Services Department of the University of Southern California.
01-30-2023 09:46 AM
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Post: #28
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 12:40 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Correct, USC doesn't play at the Rose Bowl, UCLA does. The Coliseum doesn't belong to USC but they are the primary tenant.

USC did a long term lease and paid for renovations, so they effectively "own" the Coliseum. Its only about a mile off campus, so its effectively "on campus."
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2023 09:48 AM by bullet.)
01-30-2023 09:47 AM
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Post: #29
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 06:43 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 04:14 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  [quote='_C2_' pid='18749981' dateline='1674972784']
Pitt is an example of a school that had a large on-campus stadium, but gave it up to play in an NFL stadium. Most seem to agree that they made the right decision.

UPMC was a huge reason for that though, and the Steelers/Panthers home is not far from UPitt's campus at all.

One that really worries me is UNLV, but they are a G5. UNLV gave up the Silver Bowl to play at the Raiders new stadium, but I continue to have my doubts about that arrangement long-term.

I think Pitt's football decline can be marked to the decision to go off-campus.

It's farther away than it seems on Google Maps - it's a 15 minute bus ride on a very good day.

The tailgate experience at Pitt football games is almost non-existent. It loses the advantages of bringing alumni and visiting fans to campus.

However, Pitt's campus faces tremendous land constraints. At only 132 acres and hemmed in by very steep hills and other major land-hungry institutions such as Carnegie Mellon, they are almost certainly the 2nd most landlocked major college campus in America (other than Columbia). (Marquette has slightly less land but a lot fewer students).
01-30-2023 10:32 AM
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MattBrownEP Offline
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Post: #30
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 06:43 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 04:14 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  [quote='_C2_' pid='18749981' dateline='1674972784']
Pitt is an example of a school that had a large on-campus stadium, but gave it up to play in an NFL stadium. Most seem to agree that they made the right decision.

UPMC was a huge reason for that though, and the Steelers/Panthers home is not far from UPitt's campus at all.

One that really worries me is UNLV, but they are a G5. UNLV gave up the Silver Bowl to play at the Raiders new stadium, but I continue to have my doubts about that arrangement long-term.

Sam Boyd Stadium wasn't on campus, and I dunno if any of you guys have ever been there...but it was a major dump. I know for a fact that UNLV is pitching the Raider's stadium as an *asset* to other conferences.

I don't personally agree, but that's the pitch.
01-30-2023 10:39 AM
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Post: #31
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-29-2023 07:51 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-29-2023 01:44 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  I just mapped it out, the Liberty Bowl is 2.3 miles from the Campus. Yes, it's an ageing facility, but it's more than adequate and the location isn't so much worse than an OCS that you'd want to drop hundreds of millions replacing it with something 2 miles down the road. As others have noted, Memphis' issues are largely unrelated to the Stadium.

What would an on-campus stadium give Memphis? Would it improve their attendance? More important, would it increase their revenues? If more students were to attend their games, would they sell more tickets or just have more seats filled with no additional revenue and probably a lot of debt service for many years into the future? Spend your money on something else.

At the risk of cutting my own school's throat, I am going to answer that question.

Here's what an on-campus stadium would give The University of Memphis:

- Higher ticket prices. The current stadium is 55,000 seats. We need a 35-40K seat facility to drive ticket prices. The city needs a larger stadium to support the Liberty Bowl game and the Southern Heritage Classic. The hotel and restaurant revenue from out-of-towners attending these games is in the millions. This is one reason the city opposes an on-campus stadium.

- Secondary Revenue - The city owns the current stadium. Money from parking, concessions, suite sales, signage advertising, naming rights, and all non-football events goes to the city. The university gets a cut of some of these for our game days, but not all of them. That's a lot of money, and it's one reason they city has never supported on-campus facilities for the university.

- Jobs The city controls the employment for stadium workers from groundskeepers to parking attendants and all points in between. This is used as a political tool for local politicians to reward their supporters with some extra cash working various stadium jobs (or perhaps being paid for them when they didn't actually work). Other schools hire students to do a lot of these jobs or use them to supplement the income of other school employees. Contracts or stadium services and repairs also fall into the same political arena. Another reason the city doesn't support an on-campus stadium.

- Political Advantage The University can bring the Governor or other state officials to a suite to see a game and those people will never place their feet on the campus. The city owns their own suites as well, and influential figures will find their way into the city's clutches even at a Tiger game. Control of the suites and having them on the campus would increase dignitaries time on the campus dramatically as it is now essentially none. Keep in mind men's basketball is played downtown at the FedExForum. We need those players on campus to see what needs to be done. Perhaps another reason the city doesn't support an on-campus stadium?

- Miscellaneous
High school students attending games never see the campus.

TV coverage never shows the campus.

Restaurants and retailers supporting the school would benefit greatly from the additional business. (There is virtually nothing around the current stadium).

Alumni attending games remain detached from their campus, schools, departments, and faculty. Alumni giving is low.


I could go on some more, but by now you should get it. The University of Memphis is a state school - not a city school. The city has numerous interests in owning and controlling the football stadium, but without the university as a tenant, it would be difficult to justify. Since they own the stadium, the city reaps the vast majority of the benefits of ownership. That's where we have been for 100 years, and it is not going to change for another 25 to 50 years. The city has secured funding for major upgrades to the stadium. Memphis' plight will continue for a few more decades at least.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2023 12:27 PM by Claw.)
01-30-2023 11:02 AM
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Post: #32
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
You can compare UCF (Built On-Campus Stadium 2007) and South Florida (Renting at NFL Stadium)

Marc Daniels wrote a piece
https://969thegame.iheart.com/featured/b...e-changed/

Quote:...UCF celebrated its new facility that many felt would never happen. But it did for the then low cost of $55M. Down I-4, South Florida football fans laughed at what UCF had built. They bragged about playing the NFL's Raymond James Stadium and how UCF's new structure was a "nice little thing" that couldn't match where the Bulls were playing....
Quote:...Now, 15 years later, much has changed. That "nice little thing" UCF built is a money machine for the Knights every home game. They share their revenue with no one and certainly don't pay rent to anyone, unlike South Florida's situation with Raymond James Stadium. The Bulls are again pitching sites and renderings for an on-campus stadium and everyone loves renderings. Renderings make for fun press conferences and lots of promises....

Quote:Now South Florida finds itself in the role UCF played when the Knights were sitting in Conference USA as the Bulls played in the Big East. You want to be where your rival is so you do everything you can to be like them.
01-30-2023 11:10 AM
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Post: #33
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 11:10 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  You can compare UCF (Built On-Campus Stadium 2007) and South Florida (Renting at NFL Stadium)

Marc Daniels wrote a piece
https://969thegame.iheart.com/featured/b...e-changed/

Quote:...UCF celebrated its new facility that many felt would never happen. But it did for the then low cost of $55M. Down I-4, South Florida football fans laughed at what UCF had built. They bragged about playing the NFL's Raymond James Stadium and how UCF's new structure was a "nice little thing" that couldn't match where the Bulls were playing....
Quote:...Now, 15 years later, much has changed. That "nice little thing" UCF built is a money machine for the Knights every home game. They share their revenue with no one and certainly don't pay rent to anyone, unlike South Florida's situation with Raymond James Stadium. The Bulls are again pitching sites and renderings for an on-campus stadium and everyone loves renderings. Renderings make for fun press conferences and lots of promises....

Quote:Now South Florida finds itself in the role UCF played when the Knights were sitting in Conference USA as the Bulls played in the Big East. You want to be where your rival is so you do everything you can to be like them.

Thankfully it was a no-brainer for the Knights. The Citrus Bowl was such a dump in a less-than-stellar part of town and relatively far away from the UCF campus.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2023 11:22 AM by GarnetAndBlue.)
01-30-2023 11:21 AM
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Post: #34
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 10:39 AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 06:43 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 04:14 AM)Milwaukee Wrote:  [quote='_C2_' pid='18749981' dateline='1674972784']
Pitt is an example of a school that had a large on-campus stadium, but gave it up to play in an NFL stadium. Most seem to agree that they made the right decision.

UPMC was a huge reason for that though, and the Steelers/Panthers home is not far from UPitt's campus at all.

One that really worries me is UNLV, but they are a G5. UNLV gave up the Silver Bowl to play at the Raiders new stadium, but I continue to have my doubts about that arrangement long-term.

Sam Boyd Stadium wasn't on campus, and I dunno if any of you guys have ever been there...but it was a major dump. I know for a fact that UNLV is pitching the Raider's stadium as an *asset* to other conferences.

I don't personally agree, but that's the pitch.

UNLV is actually closer to the Raiders stadium than to Sam Boyd. I went to Sam Boyd circa 2010 and it was basically in a suburb. Very little shade at the stadium, so afternoon games would've been miserable.
01-30-2023 11:31 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #35
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 09:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 12:40 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Correct, USC doesn't play at the Rose Bowl, UCLA does. The Coliseum doesn't belong to USC but they are the primary tenant.

USC did a long term lease and paid for renovations, so they effectively "own" the Coliseum. Its only about a mile off campus, so its effectively "on campus."

The Coliseum is located only about three blocks south of the southern fringe of the USC campus, bullet. Definitely a good bit less than a mile.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Univer...%2F065y4w7
01-30-2023 12:20 PM
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Post: #36
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-29-2023 10:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  At some point, Memphis might be faced with a tough decision — one that will be largely dictated by the desire to keep the Tiger men's basketball program nationally relevant: drop FBS football.
If so, no major conference would take them.
01-30-2023 12:25 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #37
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 12:25 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  
(01-29-2023 10:56 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  At some point, Memphis might be faced with a tough decision — one that will be largely dictated by the desire to keep the Tiger men's basketball program nationally relevant: drop FBS football.
If so, no major conference would take them.

No major conference currently existing would take Memphis. Correct. I agree. But I was not clear. The future could yield some dramatic changes, such that is born a conference that does not sponsor football and that offers lots of quality men's basketball program. An "A10 on steroids," if you will. That's what I was suggesting could be tempting for Memphis. Unlikely to happen.
01-30-2023 12:49 PM
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Post: #38
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 12:36 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(01-29-2023 10:52 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Coliseum is basically on USC's campus.

Is it? I've never been, but when I just googled it I got "13.9 miles" from USC to Rose Bowl.

Ah, I see, USC has their own stadium, it's UCLA that travels to the Rose Bowl.


LOL, you never use miles when talking about commuting in LA, you use minutes. UCLA is a bit over 30 miles from the Rose Bowl so figure about 45-60 minutes depending on traffic.
01-30-2023 01:05 PM
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Post: #39
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 01:05 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 12:36 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  
(01-29-2023 10:52 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The Coliseum is basically on USC's campus.

Is it? I've never been, but when I just googled it I got "13.9 miles" from USC to Rose Bowl.

Ah, I see, USC has their own stadium, it's UCLA that travels to the Rose Bowl.


LOL, you never use miles when talking about commuting in LA, you use minutes. UCLA is a bit over 30 miles from the Rose Bowl so figure about 45-60 minutes depending on traffic.

You are correct, good sir. One of my nephews is a USC student (lives on the campus) and dates a young woman who is a UCLA student. When I first asked him "how far a drive is it to Westwood" he gave me multiple routes based on minutes, traffic factors, time of day/night, etc. When I said, "No, I mean in terms of mileage" ... he did not know.
01-30-2023 02:01 PM
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Post: #40
RE: How important is an on-campus stadium in realignment/expansion?
(01-30-2023 12:20 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 09:47 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-30-2023 12:40 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Correct, USC doesn't play at the Rose Bowl, UCLA does. The Coliseum doesn't belong to USC but they are the primary tenant.

USC did a long term lease and paid for renovations, so they effectively "own" the Coliseum. Its only about a mile off campus, so its effectively "on campus."

The Coliseum is located only about three blocks south of the southern fringe of the USC campus, bullet. Definitely a good bit less than a mile.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Univer...%2F065y4w7
Maybe I was comparing to the center of campus when I looked at it a few years back. You are right. It looks like between a 1/4 mile and half mile from the southern edge of campus. It has the advantage that the exposition area that includes Memorial Stadium borders campus. Its not like you have to walk through Watts to get there.
01-30-2023 03:18 PM
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