I’m still trying to get a grasp on the variety of interfaces that people use for viewing.

Between Dish/Sling, Cox, Fubo it’s been about a decade since my TV didn’t automatically record my favorite team or give me a live sports app with a college football menu.

Are people still scrolling a generic channel lineup without some some of live sports filter in 2023? Are there still providers who haven’t updated their UI in 15 years?

(04-25-2023 10:22 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I’m still trying to get a grasp on the variety of interfaces that people use for viewing.

Between Dish/Sling, Cox, Fubo it’s been about a decade since my TV didn’t automatically record my favorite team or give me a live sports app with a college football menu.

Are people still scrolling a generic channel lineup without some some of live sports filter in 2023? Are there still providers who haven’t updated their UI in 15 years?

My Samsung TV has a built-in streaming platform that clones antenna-based TV so well it was months before I realized that I wasn't using the antenna we'd bought when we dropped cable. (I knew that digital TV meant that each channel could have a bunch of subchannels) There's no guide function (that I know of). When I want to watch OTA sports (or a live rocket launch), I press "2" (which is CBS I think) and start scrolling up from there.

There's been a big fragmentation.

(04-25-2023 10:22 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I’m still trying to get a grasp on the variety of interfaces that people use for viewing.

Between Dish/Sling, Cox, Fubo it’s been about a decade since my TV didn’t automatically record my favorite team or give me a live sports app with a college football menu.

Are people still scrolling a generic channel lineup without some some of live sports filter in 2023? Are there still providers who haven’t updated their UI in 15 years?

I mean there have probably been those updates, but people tend to be creatures of habit. There's probably a large chunk of the populace who just didn't bother to learn about the new features because the same process they were doing before is working just fine for them.

Like, my in-laws were still on their old cable package from over a decade ago until the last time my wife and I visited and we took them to the local Cox cable outlet, got all of their hardware updated, got them the exact same cable package, massively improved their internet, and got the cost cut in half. Took an hour but they otherwise wouldn't have done it had we not got them there.

Complacency is a real thing.

(04-25-2023 10:32 AM)e-parade Wrote:  

(04-25-2023 10:22 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I’m still trying to get a grasp on the variety of interfaces that people use for viewing.

Between Dish/Sling, Cox, Fubo it’s been about a decade since my TV didn’t automatically record my favorite team or give me a live sports app with a college football menu.

Are people still scrolling a generic channel lineup without some some of live sports filter in 2023? Are there still providers who haven’t updated their UI in 15 years?

I mean there have probably been those updates, but people tend to be creatures of habit. There's probably a large chunk of the populace who just didn't bother to learn about the new features because the same process they were doing before is working just fine for them.

Like, my in-laws were still on their old cable package from over a decade ago until the last time my wife and I visited and we took them to the local Cox cable outlet, got all of their hardware updated, got them the exact same cable package, massively improved their internet, and got the cost cut in half. Took an hour but they otherwise wouldn't have done it had we not got them there.

Complacency is a real thing.

Especially with older generations. My father and mother-in-law had terrible cell phone service in their house, blamed the new metal roof (probably true). When I was visiting, I switched their phones to "use wifi for calling" and solved the problem.

(04-25-2023 08:37 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-25-2023 07:36 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-25-2023 02:59 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-24-2023 12:00 PM)clunk Wrote:  I'm not even remotely a Big 12 partisan. No skin in the game either way, but watching the PAC struggle to get a contract is interesting. If a $25M streaming offer with linear rights was on the table it would have been signed by now. Can only assume the real offer is much worse. No contract=no PAC. That's my take at least.

Jim Williams in this interview said that he thought the final number was going to be $25 to $35 million per school. He is guessing. He does not really know. But a $25 million streaming offer with linear is not acceptable and there are other details that would need to be worked out. The fact that the contract is not done is not important. It is more important to get it right.

Williams got some things wrong in this interview. The Pac-12 already has a linear partner. Their name is ESPN.

Source? Right now they don't have squatt from anybody, nothing is signed. Do we have a leak about a tentative ESPN-PAC deal?

Quote:They need a second linear partner. Williams said that the Pac-12 does 53% on linear today. That was not correct. They are 100% linear today.

He's not counting the Pac 12 Network games as linear, since roughly nobody can watch them on cable.

Yeah, I'm not sure what SoCal is talking about in that the Pac-12 already has a linear partner in ESPN. The Pac-12 doesn't have a contract announced with anybody yet, so there's no linear partner (or streaming partner) to-date.

And saying Williams got it wrong for saying the Pac-12 is 53% linear and not 100% linear is a disingenuous criticism. He's obviously not counting the P12 Network as linear, considering it's in 11.9% of US households.

The Pac-12 Network is currently a linear network and will be through June 30, 2024. They televised 36 football games in 2023. I watch the seven channels on Spectrum cable. They are 100% linear. That is not disingenuous criticism. That is just a fact. Williams should know that.

In the interview, he does not talk about ESPN, the one vendor that has been involved in the negotiation since July. That is not a secret. ESPN does not have UCLA or USC starting in 2024, and they do not have the MWC. They need the Pac-12, or they have nothing for FBS football on the west coast. The Pac-12 needs ESPN. The Pac-12 averaged 1.6 million viewers for their Saturday Night 10:30 EST games on ESPN this past season. The 4th broadcast hour is valued by ESPN for football and basketball. There is no way ESPN will be left out.

Apple is using MLS and MLB production facilities for their streaming broadcasts. Amazon uses NBC for their Thursday Night NFL Football broadcasts. Both need the Pac-12 to produce college football telecasts. One thing that Williams said that was correct: The Pac-12 is the only power conference available until 2030. If you want to get into college football, this is it. The Pac-12 Network recently signed a lease to move their production studios from San Francisco to San Ramon, just 45 miles from Apple's corporate headquarters. It is a perfect fit for both sides.

Apple is not ready to be a Tier 1 vendor for a power conference. They could share the title with ESPN, but that is about it.

(04-22-2023 07:54 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 08:39 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(04-22-2023 02:17 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I'm flipping from slightly optimistic to rather depressed about Pac-12 survival.

Interesting

Anything in particular that changed your opinion or in hindsight that you got wrong?

Mostly that it's gone on too long. Media has since gone into a recession and the willingness to spend has declined.

The layoffs at ESPN has driven home to me, that where there was maybe some wiggle room to expand the package coverage before, there is no wiggle room now. It's a take it or leave it, for a small package at a lower rate. Even that rumored $245M for everything with heavy streaming is gone, two games only (one ESPN+, one after dark) for $90-100M seems to be all there is. Even Amazon running 10-12 Friday games probably still leaves you short of that too low $245M, and desperately looking for carriage, never mind any significant revenue, for 25-30 football games, your basketball and whatever else. Bottom line, I fully realize the money is way too low to keep the schools in place. Before I had expected that $245M to be expandable by $40-50M with CCG, Basketball or ESPN+, but now realize that is not the case.

Nothing is good in this. Games like Notre Dame at Stanford would either need to be after dark, which the Irish would object to, or flexed by ESPN off their digital network. Same for Washington vs Oregon, and any game of any meaningfulness, with only Friday Night on Amazon or after dark on ESPN open. It sucks, and the money sucks too.

Thus, we are at the almost all streaming option to get enough money. But it's a cloak of invisibility for the Pac-12 and everyone knows it. Today I have come to realize this is the package they are most seriously working on. And it won't work for half the schools.

This is far worse a situation than I thought it was even a week ago. I now think it'll take something of a minor miracle to not see two or three more schools announce they are leaving in the next couple months. I don't know how Kliavkoff can deliver what is needed. The market just is in a bad spot, and the streaming option may be right, but everyone thinks its not. He needs a miracle.

(04-25-2023 06:12 AM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Do the majority of people not check the ESPN or FOX Sports app on their phone for scores or the schedule that day? That's what I do and the score page tells you the channel the game is on.

I don't rely on cross promotion to be told what channel a game is on. I just check the ESPN app.

A lot of people who are fans of a school may just look at the their social media feed, since if they are fans of a school they'll likely have some social media that follows the school.

One thing about the cross-promotion is that it's not as if the alternatives being considered are a GOTW on ABC or a GOTW on AppleTV+ simulcast on Ion/CW/wevs. They include the option of cross-promotion with ESPN as the sole linear TV outlet, and the option of cross-promotion with ESPN plus an OTA network as the linear TV outlets.

Technically they include the option of only AppleTV+, but if the buzz is that some schools have a minimum linear TV exposure they want to see, you'd think the front-runners are GOTW+ESPN+P12N streaming, with getting the details on the GOTW hammered out and/or getting the details on the P12N streaming hammered out as possible sources for negotiations getting a bit bogged down.

The cross promotion of Ion/CW/wevs in isolation is not as strong as, say, TNT, but those who watch TNT for sports likely also watch ESPN. Ion/CW/wevs gives some access to the cord cutters who have left ESPN behind.

If ESPN is willing to accept game #2 and #3 with everything else going to AppleTV+ but AppleTV+ commits to simulcasting the GOTW with a linear partner and making it available to all base subscribers, then part of the cross promotion is going to involve Apple cross promoting the P12N package in the PAC territory, similar to the ads I see for T-Mobile with the MLS package "for free" advertised as part of the bonus for switching to a T-Mobile contract with an iPhone.

As far as the P12N counting as "linear TV", that's the one network channel where, given the lack of satellite TV carriage, it seems like a add on subscription package on AppleTV+ is not a big drop in exposure, but more a shift in the households that get the exposure, which is one reason why the PAC contract would be a strategic starting point for AppleTV getting into P5 sports.

(04-25-2023 10:22 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I’m still trying to get a grasp on the variety of interfaces that people use for viewing.

Between Dish/Sling, Cox, Fubo it’s been about a decade since my TV didn’t automatically record my favorite team or give me a live sports app with a college football menu.

Are people still scrolling a generic channel lineup without some some of live sports filter in 2023? Are there still providers who haven’t updated their UI in 15 years?

I guess I am in between in terms of being 'cutting edge' here - I have multiple "Smart" 4K TVs, and am very familiar with how to use Roku or Fire (the two kinds of smart TVs I have) to access all the apps I want, in addition to my COX cable lineup. I have zero problem finding all the linear channels or streaming channels I subscribe to, even the obscure ones like the various RSNs.

But as far as knowing what CFB games are on, I still rely on the schedules posted by "LSUfootball.net" or "mattsarz" to see what games are on, at what time, and what channel. Typically, I just take a screenshot of the schedule during game week, and just open it up on my phone to find the games and channels. I do not use any live sports apps to find those things.

Four PAC 12 Presidents are not on board with Apple TV as sole distribution partner
-- Arizona, ASU, Washington, and Colorado are the programs not on board
-- Apple TV wants a subscription minimum to reach full valuation

Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6HWAtpqdZw

(04-26-2023 09:44 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Four PAC 12 Presidents are not on board with Apple TV as sole distribution partner
--Arizona, ASU, Washington, and Colorado are the programs not on board


Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6HWAtpqdZw

Did you listen? Does that mean that the other 8 *are* on board if the deal is 100% Apple?

(04-26-2023 09:51 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-26-2023 09:44 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Four PAC 12 Presidents are not on board with Apple TV as sole distribution partner
--Arizona, ASU, Washington, and Colorado are the programs not on board


Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6HWAtpqdZw

Did you listen? Does that mean that the other 8 *are* on board if the deal is 100% Apple?

I think if the other 6 *were* on board the deal for 100% Apple TV as sole distribution partner that deal would already be signed!
What is crazy is eight months into this goat screw and it seems like a huge mistake to go to the open market as no deal seems imminent since no linear TV partner wants to sign with the PAC12 for what the Pac12 thinks they are worth.... Craziness!

(04-26-2023 10:03 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  ....
What is crazy is eight months into this goat screw and it seems like a huge mistake to go to the open market as no deal seems imminent since no linear TV partner wants to sign with the PAC12 for what the Pac12 thinks they are worth.... Craziness!

Message boards going crazy ≠ Universities going crazy

We'll see.

(04-25-2023 10:22 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I’m still trying to get a grasp on the variety of interfaces that people use for viewing.

Between Dish/Sling, Cox, Fubo it’s been about a decade since my TV didn’t automatically record my favorite team or give me a live sports app with a college football menu.

Are people still scrolling a generic channel lineup without some some of live sports filter in 2023? Are there still providers who haven’t updated their UI in 15 years?

I stopped by to say hello to Mom today. I'm confident that her TV is not so different from the one we had in the '80s.

It's pretty easy to go to your web browser and type in "College football on TV". There are several choices.

(04-25-2023 10:36 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-25-2023 10:32 AM)e-parade Wrote:  

(04-25-2023 10:22 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I’m still trying to get a grasp on the variety of interfaces that people use for viewing.

Between Dish/Sling, Cox, Fubo it’s been about a decade since my TV didn’t automatically record my favorite team or give me a live sports app with a college football menu.

Are people still scrolling a generic channel lineup without some some of live sports filter in 2023? Are there still providers who haven’t updated their UI in 15 years?

I mean there have probably been those updates, but people tend to be creatures of habit. There's probably a large chunk of the populace who just didn't bother to learn about the new features because the same process they were doing before is working just fine for them.

Like, my in-laws were still on their old cable package from over a decade ago until the last time my wife and I visited and we took them to the local Cox cable outlet, got all of their hardware updated, got them the exact same cable package, massively improved their internet, and got the cost cut in half. Took an hour but they otherwise wouldn't have done it had we not got them there.

Complacency is a real thing.

Especially with older generations. My father and mother-in-law had terrible cell phone service in their house, blamed the new metal roof (probably true). When I was visiting, I switched their phones to "use wifi for calling" and solved the problem.

i bet they consider you a genius for your tech wizardry