(10-30-2023 10:08 AM)astr083 Wrote:  The MAC's television contract should be on par or better than the SBC, not with C-USA.... It's embarrassing. Time for the MAC to look at other options or negotiate a MUCH, MUCH better TV deal with ESPN that get's them on the major networks more often, and less games on ESPNU/ESPN+/ESPN3.

We need to reduce the amount of games we play on weekdays if we decide to stay with ESPN and only sign a 5-year or shorter deal. If we sign longer than 5 years, there needs to be double or more money involved. Tying the conference down to 10+ year contracts limits the conference's ability to earn more money sooner or find new, emerging platforms to put our product on.

Play one game per weekday, two games per week. Games can only be shown on ESPN or ESPN2.

Negotiate a set amount of weekend games for ESPNU and distribution to CBS Sports and the rest of the weekend games can be on ESPN3/+.

(10-30-2023 10:08 AM)astr083 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 09:48 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 08:14 AM)zibby Wrote:  Is there really a difference between ESPN2 and ESPNU? On my cable system ESPNU is 573 and ESPN2 is 574.

For Hulu + Live TV, there's little difference: the ESPN2 game is further left in the game picker. For a lot of cable systems, though, ESPN/ESPN2 are on Basic Cable and ESPNNews/ESPNU are on a sports tier for an added cost.

Also, there are bigger games on ESPN2, because it has carriage in more homes, and that means that more people have it programmed as one of their favorites, and so people who scroll through their favorites are more likely to land on it, which boosts the ratings of ESPN2 games.

The deal is, if the MAC gives ESPN a choice between two weeknight games, ESPN will put one of them on ESPN2. The other will go on ESPNU, which is better than ESPN3 or ESPN+ as far as carriage.

ESPN only gets one CUSA game on a weeknight ... but after they finished their transition to Tuesday/Wednesday, that was Tuesday on ESPNU and Wednesday on ESPN2. So where the MAC gets six games on ESPN2 during #MACtion, CUSA gets 3. However, CBSSN is CUSA's main media partner, so while the MAC got 4 games on CSBSSN in November last year and eight on ESPNU, CUSA got 8 on CBSSN and 5 on ESPNU this October.

The MAC's television contract should be on par or better than the SBC, not with C-USA.... It's embarrassing. Time for the MAC to look at other options or negotiate a MUCH, MUCH better TV deal with ESPN that get's them on the major networks more often, and less games on ESPNU/ESPN+/ESPN3.

Why should MAC have a higher revenue then SBC. I fail to see this logic.

(10-30-2023 10:17 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 10:08 AM)astr083 Wrote:  The MAC's television contract should be on par or better than the SBC, not with C-USA.... It's embarrassing. Time for the MAC to look at other options or negotiate a MUCH, MUCH better TV deal with ESPN that get's them on the major networks more often, and less games on ESPNU/ESPN+/ESPN3.

We need to reduce the amount of games we play on weekdays if we decide to stay with ESPN and only sign a 5-year or shorter deal. If we sign longer than 5 years, there needs to be double or more money involved. Tying the conference down to 10+ year contracts limits the conference's ability to earn more money sooner or find new, emerging platforms to put our product on.

Play one game per weekday, two games per week. Games can only be shown on ESPN or ESPN2.

Negotiate a set amount of weekend games for ESPNU and distribution to CBS Sports and the rest of the weekend games can be on ESPN3/+.

So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

(10-30-2023 11:16 AM)DICK Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 10:17 AM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 10:08 AM)astr083 Wrote:  The MAC's television contract should be on par or better than the SBC, not with C-USA.... It's embarrassing. Time for the MAC to look at other options or negotiate a MUCH, MUCH better TV deal with ESPN that get's them on the major networks more often, and less games on ESPNU/ESPN+/ESPN3.

We need to reduce the amount of games we play on weekdays if we decide to stay with ESPN and only sign a 5-year or shorter deal. If we sign longer than 5 years, there needs to be double or more money involved. Tying the conference down to 10+ year contracts limits the conference's ability to earn more money sooner or find new, emerging platforms to put our product on.

Play one game per weekday, two games per week. Games can only be shown on ESPN or ESPN2.

Negotiate a set amount of weekend games for ESPNU and distribution to CBS Sports and the rest of the weekend games can be on ESPN3/+.

So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

ESPN gave SBC approx. $1.2 million per school (rumor is it may be as much as $2 million per when they added the last 4 members) for about 1/3 the amount of weekday games the MAC provides and on a shorter length contract.

MAC will provide 19 weekday games this season.
SBC will provide 7 weekday games this season.

(10-30-2023 10:08 AM)astr083 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 09:48 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(10-24-2023 08:14 AM)zibby Wrote:  Is there really a difference between ESPN2 and ESPNU? On my cable system ESPNU is 573 and ESPN2 is 574.

For Hulu + Live TV, there's little difference: the ESPN2 game is further left in the game picker. For a lot of cable systems, though, ESPN/ESPN2 are on Basic Cable and ESPNNews/ESPNU are on a sports tier for an added cost.

Also, there are bigger games on ESPN2, because it has carriage in more homes, and that means that more people have it programmed as one of their favorites, and so people who scroll through their favorites are more likely to land on it, which boosts the ratings of ESPN2 games.

The deal is, if the MAC gives ESPN a choice between two weeknight games, ESPN will put one of them on ESPN2. The other will go on ESPNU, which is better than ESPN3 or ESPN+ as far as carriage.

ESPN only gets one CUSA game on a weeknight ... but after they finished their transition to Tuesday/Wednesday, that was Tuesday on ESPNU and Wednesday on ESPN2. So where the MAC gets six games on ESPN2 during #MACtion, CUSA gets 3. However, CBSSN is CUSA's main media partner, so while the MAC got 4 games on CSBSSN in November last year and eight on ESPNU, CUSA got 8 on CBSSN and 5 on ESPNU this October.

The MAC's television contract should be on par or better than the SBC, not with C-USA.... It's embarrassing. Time for the MAC to look at other options or negotiate a MUCH, MUCH better TV deal with ESPN that get's them on the major networks more often, and less games on ESPNU/ESPN+/ESPN3.

We make more money from ESPN than both leagues and have a better MACC slot.

When the contract was written the MAC had the novelty of midweek games. Now that we are last in a season, the games lose their luster. The MACtion games this year also suuuuuckkkk. But lots of fans don't want their rivalries on the weekdays so that's what we get. BG vs. Toledo looks like the only decent game. CMU and WMU is always fun. The same for a few random other games like Toledo vs. a down EMU.

November and cold is compound interest. But Ohio drew 5k under capacity vs. Miami and Miami drew 7k under theirs for Toledo. Butts in seats will never be featured on ESPN2. Toledo and BG are the only teams who ever care. WMU did fine in 2016.

(10-30-2023 11:16 AM)DICK Wrote:  So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

Yes, that is what he's suggesting.

(10-30-2023 03:06 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 11:16 AM)DICK Wrote:  So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

Yes, that is what he's suggesting.

We currently provide ESPN nearly 3x the weekday game inventory than SBC and, if true, don't even receive half of the $2 mil per school they receive.

So yes, provide less product and ask for double the payment because the cost of programming has increased significantly since the MAC made their deal with ESPN in 2014.

(10-30-2023 03:18 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:06 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 11:16 AM)DICK Wrote:  So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

Yes, that is what he's suggesting.

We currently provide ESPN nearly 3x the weekday game inventory than SBC and, if true, don't even receive half of the $2 mil per school they receive.

So yes, provide less product and ask for double the payment because the cost of programming has increased significantly since the MAC made their deal with ESPN in 2014.

To be fair, what ESPN saw from the conference in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 was 1 year removed from an Orange Bowl. How have 2019-2022 looked as far as teams on the national stage (ABSOLUTELY ATTROCIOUS). 7 and 8 win teams winning the MAC is a big ol hair ball for programing.

(10-30-2023 05:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:18 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:06 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 11:16 AM)DICK Wrote:  So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

Yes, that is what he's suggesting.

We currently provide ESPN nearly 3x the weekday game inventory than SBC and, if true, don't even receive half of the $2 mil per school they receive.

So yes, provide less product and ask for double the payment because the cost of programming has increased significantly since the MAC made their deal with ESPN in 2014.

To be fair, what ESPN saw from the conference in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 was 1 year removed from an Orange Bowl. How have 2019-2022 looked as far as teams on the national stage (ABSOLUTELY ATTROCIOUS). 7 and 8 win teams winning the MAC is a big ol hair ball for programing.

Right on. It would not shock me if the demand is really soft next time the MAC hits the market. The product has been terrible and you could argue that the conference has pushed itself so far into a bubble within FBS that any national appeal it had years ago has dropped significantly. I do not expect the MAC to be heading into the next negotiation with a lot of leverage.

The Sun Belt is just a better product right now in so many ways. Plus ESPN is all in on the SEC so it makes sense they also want to push the Sun Belt. The MAC ceiling is low and a hyper regional throwback conference with a niche following is not going to be worth much in the broader market.

If the MAC left ESPN would anyone even notice?

(10-30-2023 06:25 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 05:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:18 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:06 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 11:16 AM)DICK Wrote:  So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

Yes, that is what he's suggesting.

We currently provide ESPN nearly 3x the weekday game inventory than SBC and, if true, don't even receive half of the $2 mil per school they receive.

So yes, provide less product and ask for double the payment because the cost of programming has increased significantly since the MAC made their deal with ESPN in 2014.

To be fair, what ESPN saw from the conference in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 was 1 year removed from an Orange Bowl. How have 2019-2022 looked as far as teams on the national stage (ABSOLUTELY ATTROCIOUS). 7 and 8 win teams winning the MAC is a big ol hair ball for programing.

Right on. It would not shock me if the demand is really soft next time the MAC hits the market. The product has been terrible and you could argue that the conference has pushed itself so far into a bubble within FBS that any national appeal it had years ago has dropped significantly. I do not expect the MAC to be heading into the next negotiation with a lot of leverage.

The Sun Belt is just a better product right now in so many ways. Plus ESPN is all in on the SEC so it makes sense they also want to push the Sun Belt. The MAC ceiling is low and a hyper regional throwback conference with a niche following is not going to be worth much in the broader market.

If the MAC left ESPN would anyone even notice?

Does anyone even notice they are on the network now?! LOL... They are being treated like the red headed step child while they are giving the SBC too much respect. We are only 3 years removed from two teams ending the season in the Top 25.....Sooo... It's not like we haven't had good years. Plus, with some losses by other teams who have not looked as good as advertised or played awful schedules (Tulane, Liberty, JMU), Toledo could easily find their way into the access bowl discussion....

Quote:Is there really a difference between ESPN2 and ESPNU? On my cable system ESPNU is 573 and ESPN2 is 574.

Not everyone gets ESPNU, but can get ESPN2.

(10-30-2023 05:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:18 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:06 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 11:16 AM)DICK Wrote:  So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

Yes, that is what he's suggesting.

We currently provide ESPN nearly 3x the weekday game inventory than SBC and, if true, don't even receive half of the $2 mil per school they receive.

So yes, provide less product and ask for double the payment because the cost of programming has increased significantly since the MAC made their deal with ESPN in 2014.

To be fair, what ESPN saw from the conference in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 was 1 year removed from an Orange Bowl. How have 2019-2022 looked as far as teams on the national stage (ABSOLUTELY ATTROCIOUS). 7 and 8 win teams winning the MAC is a big ol hair ball for programing.

The MAC did have two teams make major BCS bowls whereas zero SBC have made a BCS bowl or CFB playoff. We were also the first conference to forsake half our conference schedule to ESPN weekdays. MAC also just won the Bowl Cup challenge.

(10-30-2023 07:53 PM)astr083 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 06:25 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 05:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:18 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:06 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Yes, that is what he's suggesting.

We currently provide ESPN nearly 3x the weekday game inventory than SBC and, if true, don't even receive half of the $2 mil per school they receive.

So yes, provide less product and ask for double the payment because the cost of programming has increased significantly since the MAC made their deal with ESPN in 2014.

To be fair, what ESPN saw from the conference in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 was 1 year removed from an Orange Bowl. How have 2019-2022 looked as far as teams on the national stage (ABSOLUTELY ATTROCIOUS). 7 and 8 win teams winning the MAC is a big ol hair ball for programing.

Right on. It would not shock me if the demand is really soft next time the MAC hits the market. The product has been terrible and you could argue that the conference has pushed itself so far into a bubble within FBS that any national appeal it had years ago has dropped significantly. I do not expect the MAC to be heading into the next negotiation with a lot of leverage.

The Sun Belt is just a better product right now in so many ways. Plus ESPN is all in on the SEC so it makes sense they also want to push the Sun Belt. The MAC ceiling is low and a hyper regional throwback conference with a niche following is not going to be worth much in the broader market.

If the MAC left ESPN would anyone even notice?

Does anyone even notice they are on the network now?! LOL... They are being treated like the red headed step child while they are giving the SBC too much respect. We are only 3 years removed from two teams ending the season in the Top 25.....Sooo... It's not like we haven't had good years. Plus, with some losses by other teams who have not looked as good as advertised or played awful schedules (Tulane, Liberty, JMU), Toledo could easily find their way into the access bowl discussion....

Tulane and JMU each have a tougher strength of schedule than 11 of the 12 MAC teams, and if not for the dumb transition rule making them ineligible for a bowl game JMU would be looking at an NY6 bowl.

https://masseyratings.com/cf/fbs/ratings

(10-30-2023 10:08 AM)astr083 Wrote:  ... The MAC's television contract should be on par or better than the SBC, not with C-USA....

Why would the lower ranked conference with less likelihood of sending its champion to the Access Bowl game (and into the CFP12 next year) expect as much coverage and money as the higher ranked conference with more likelihood of sending its champion to the Access Bowl game?

Go5 Conferences on Sagarin (who ranks by division when there are divisions):

(7. 73.36 ACC)
8. 66.82 Sunbelt East
9. 64.39 Mountain West
10. 62.67 AAC
(11. 60.46 FBS Independents)
12. 60.44 Sunbelt West
13. 60.38 MAC West
14. 58.46 MAC East
15. 57.97 CUSA
(16. 55.26 MVC)

The new Sunbelt can get on ESPN2 and ESPNU on Saturday ... they accept the one-off Friday games, but they are not in the position that CUSA is in of having to offer Tuesday/Wendesday midweek games in order to get on ESPN linear TV at all.

(10-30-2023 11:50 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 05:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:18 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:06 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 11:16 AM)DICK Wrote:  So you suggest we give ESPN family fewer games but they should double their payment for a lot less product.

Yes, that is what he's suggesting.

We currently provide ESPN nearly 3x the weekday game inventory than SBC and, if true, don't even receive half of the $2 mil per school they receive.

So yes, provide less product and ask for double the payment because the cost of programming has increased significantly since the MAC made their deal with ESPN in 2014.

To be fair, what ESPN saw from the conference in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 was 1 year removed from an Orange Bowl. How have 2019-2022 looked as far as teams on the national stage (ABSOLUTELY ATTROCIOUS). 7 and 8 win teams winning the MAC is a big ol hair ball for programing.

The MAC did have two teams make major BCS bowls whereas zero SBC have made a BCS bowl or CFB playoff. We were also the first conference to forsake half our conference schedule to ESPN weekdays. MAC also just won the Bowl Cup challenge.

Exactly, how quickly people forget... The SBC & C-USA fans need to be reminded of this.

(10-31-2023 06:22 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 07:53 PM)astr083 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 06:25 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 05:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 03:18 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  We currently provide ESPN nearly 3x the weekday game inventory than SBC and, if true, don't even receive half of the $2 mil per school they receive.

So yes, provide less product and ask for double the payment because the cost of programming has increased significantly since the MAC made their deal with ESPN in 2014.

To be fair, what ESPN saw from the conference in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 was 1 year removed from an Orange Bowl. How have 2019-2022 looked as far as teams on the national stage (ABSOLUTELY ATTROCIOUS). 7 and 8 win teams winning the MAC is a big ol hair ball for programing.

Right on. It would not shock me if the demand is really soft next time the MAC hits the market. The product has been terrible and you could argue that the conference has pushed itself so far into a bubble within FBS that any national appeal it had years ago has dropped significantly. I do not expect the MAC to be heading into the next negotiation with a lot of leverage.

The Sun Belt is just a better product right now in so many ways. Plus ESPN is all in on the SEC so it makes sense they also want to push the Sun Belt. The MAC ceiling is low and a hyper regional throwback conference with a niche following is not going to be worth much in the broader market.

If the MAC left ESPN would anyone even notice?

Does anyone even notice they are on the network now?! LOL... They are being treated like the red headed step child while they are giving the SBC too much respect. We are only 3 years removed from two teams ending the season in the Top 25.....Sooo... It's not like we haven't had good years. Plus, with some losses by other teams who have not looked as good as advertised or played awful schedules (Tulane, Liberty, JMU), Toledo could easily find their way into the access bowl discussion....

Tulane and JMU each have a tougher strength of schedule than 11 of the 12 MAC teams, and if not for the dumb transition rule making them ineligible for a bowl game JMU would be looking at an NY6 bowl.

https://masseyratings.com/cf/fbs/ratings

After the GSU game, JMU's schedule is about to be really, really bad! Plus, if JMU played Ohio, Toledo, or Miami(OH)'s schedule, I do not think they would have as good a record as any of them. No way they beat SDSU or Iowa State. I don't think they would beat Illinois, or even San Jose State, and they also would have lost to Cincinnati. I am not impressed by them or their schedule in the least.

The Bowl Cup Challenge?? Something very few fans are aware of or pay any attention to. And why would they? They only people who pay any attention to it are the few fans who notice their conference came out ahead. I doubt any P5 schools (or any schools!) are wringing their hands because the MAC came out ahead in this totally uneven “competition”.

(10-31-2023 11:01 AM)astr083 Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 06:22 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 07:53 PM)astr083 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 06:25 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(10-30-2023 05:43 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  To be fair, what ESPN saw from the conference in 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013 was 1 year removed from an Orange Bowl. How have 2019-2022 looked as far as teams on the national stage (ABSOLUTELY ATTROCIOUS). 7 and 8 win teams winning the MAC is a big ol hair ball for programing.

Right on. It would not shock me if the demand is really soft next time the MAC hits the market. The product has been terrible and you could argue that the conference has pushed itself so far into a bubble within FBS that any national appeal it had years ago has dropped significantly. I do not expect the MAC to be heading into the next negotiation with a lot of leverage.

The Sun Belt is just a better product right now in so many ways. Plus ESPN is all in on the SEC so it makes sense they also want to push the Sun Belt. The MAC ceiling is low and a hyper regional throwback conference with a niche following is not going to be worth much in the broader market.

If the MAC left ESPN would anyone even notice?

Does anyone even notice they are on the network now?! LOL... They are being treated like the red headed step child while they are giving the SBC too much respect. We are only 3 years removed from two teams ending the season in the Top 25.....Sooo... It's not like we haven't had good years. Plus, with some losses by other teams who have not looked as good as advertised or played awful schedules (Tulane, Liberty, JMU), Toledo could easily find their way into the access bowl discussion....

Tulane and JMU each have a tougher strength of schedule than 11 of the 12 MAC teams, and if not for the dumb transition rule making them ineligible for a bowl game JMU would be looking at an NY6 bowl.

https://masseyratings.com/cf/fbs/ratings

After the GSU game, JMU's schedule is about to be really, really bad! Plus, if JMU played Ohio, Toledo, or Miami(OH)'s schedule, I do not think they would have as good a record as any of them. No way they beat SDSU or Iowa State. I don't think they would beat Illinois, or even San Jose State, and they also would have lost to Cincinnati. I am not impressed by them or their schedule in the least.

Yup, really, really, really, really bad....they're playing a team whose schedule strength is stronger than all 3 of your examples. LOL! BTW, the current SOS for those 3 examples will only get worse as they finish up conference play with the MAC schools rated very low. While living in the land of hypotheticals and ignoring legitimate data, you're always entitled to come up with your own calculations and index ratings. Until then, keep holding on to a bowl birth from over 20 years ago as if it somehow trumps how and why another conference has passed the MAC by in recent times.

Strength of Schedule
94 - JMU
107 - Georgia State
120 - Miami
121 - Ohio
125 - Toledo

https://masseyratings.com/cf/fbs/ratings