https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...e-presence

This gets crazier by the day.

(10-31-2023 11:45 AM)jp102586 Wrote:  https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...e-presence

This gets crazier by the day.

This should create a little drama for tonight's telecast on ESPNU.

On loan from Harbaugh?

McElwain did coach at U-M before going to CMU.

There is so much evidence against UM that I find this almost comical. This was such an elaborate cheating scheme that clearly broke multiple rules, yet we have to hear about "evidence" and "proof." As a former lawyer, trust me, there is plenty of evidence and proof here; photos, receipts, statements, salaries, knowledge, lying about "low-level" staffer, etc. This also isn't a court of law, so the threshold for burden of proof is much lower. Some of the UM fans need to take a long look in the mirror and stop moving the goalposts. Their rhetoric resembled The Narcissist's Prayer to a tee. Everyone does it, it's not that bad, where is the proof, who leaked this info, we could win without it, etc. etc. It's kind of gross to be honest. This cannot be summarized as "everyone does it." No, everyone does not do this. Yes everyone speeds, but not everyone does 90 down a side street.

I don't know if it's Stalions, but I find it difficult to believe it isn't based on the fact that CMU could probably find out who this was in 5 minutes. It would almost seem negligent for our AD to make any statement at all without internally investigating the football staff/invites/guests/friends/etc. to see if they already know who this is. We were playing MSU that week so that certainly lends credence to the fact that it could be Stalions + the connection between McElwain-Harbaugh and Stalions-Karschnia.

As a CMU alum, if we were somehow complicit in any illegal sign stealing, we deserve to be punished. /rant

(10-31-2023 01:18 PM)george14 Wrote:  There is so much evidence against UM that I find this almost comical. This was such an elaborate cheating scheme that clearly broke multiple rules, yet we have to hear about "evidence" and "proof." As a former lawyer, trust me, there is plenty of evidence and proof here; photos, receipts, statements, salaries, knowledge, lying about "low-level" staffer, etc. This also isn't a court of law, so the threshold for burden of proof is much lower. Some of the UM fans need to take a long look in the mirror and stop moving the goalposts. Their rhetoric resembled The Narcissist's Prayer to a tee. Everyone does it, it's not that bad, where is the proof, who leaked this info, we could win without it, etc. etc. It's kind of gross to be honest. This cannot be summarized as "everyone does it." No, everyone does not do this. Yes everyone speeds, but not everyone does 90 down a side street.

I don't know if it's Stalions, but I find it difficult to believe it isn't based on the fact that CMU could probably find out who this was in 5 minutes. It would almost seem negligent for our AD to make any statement at all without internally investigating the football staff/invites/guests/friends/etc. to see if they already know who this is. We were playing MSU that week so that certainly lends credence to the fact that it could be Stalions + the connection between McElwain-Harbaugh and Stalions-Karschnia.

As a CMU alum, if we were somehow complicit in any illegal sign stealing, we deserve to be punished. /rant

It appears they did search through coaches/players families/other football staff ticket lists and his name did not show up, which begs the question....How the hell did he get on the field without someone from CMU or even MSU providing him with the proper credentials? Secondly, who on either side would do that? If someone from CMU provided him access (his credentials said VB for visiting bench), were the Chips involved in trying to steal MSU's signals? I hope it's just a UM thing, but there are a lot questions that need to be answered before we can assume whether CMU is innocent or guilty of anything here. What is even more strange is it was reported that the CMU gear he was wearing looked to be team issued.

(10-31-2023 01:28 PM)astr083 Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 01:18 PM)george14 Wrote:  There is so much evidence against UM that I find this almost comical. This was such an elaborate cheating scheme that clearly broke multiple rules, yet we have to hear about "evidence" and "proof." As a former lawyer, trust me, there is plenty of evidence and proof here; photos, receipts, statements, salaries, knowledge, lying about "low-level" staffer, etc. This also isn't a court of law, so the threshold for burden of proof is much lower. Some of the UM fans need to take a long look in the mirror and stop moving the goalposts. Their rhetoric resembled The Narcissist's Prayer to a tee. Everyone does it, it's not that bad, where is the proof, who leaked this info, we could win without it, etc. etc. It's kind of gross to be honest. This cannot be summarized as "everyone does it." No, everyone does not do this. Yes everyone speeds, but not everyone does 90 down a side street.

I don't know if it's Stalions, but I find it difficult to believe it isn't based on the fact that CMU could probably find out who this was in 5 minutes. It would almost seem negligent for our AD to make any statement at all without internally investigating the football staff/invites/guests/friends/etc. to see if they already know who this is. We were playing MSU that week so that certainly lends credence to the fact that it could be Stalions + the connection between McElwain-Harbaugh and Stalions-Karschnia.

As a CMU alum, if we were somehow complicit in any illegal sign stealing, we deserve to be punished. /rant

It appears they did search through coaches/players families/other football staff ticket lists and his name did not show up, which begs the question....How the hell did he get on the field without someone from CMU or even MSU providing him with the proper credentials....Secondly, who would do that? If someone did, was CMU also involved in trying to steal MSU's signals? I hope it's just a UM thing, but there are a lot questions that need to be answered before we can assume whether CMU is innocent or guilty of anything here.

It's a great point and I don't think it's out of the question that he used a different name, if it's him. This was this year, so perhaps he stopped using his name for this. If there were no connection between Harbaugh and McElwain or Karschnia, then I wouldn't give this as much credence. But the whole things looks strange.

All CMU AD has to do is ask her own people (starting with McElwain) - who is this guy (assuming she does not know)?

(10-31-2023 02:02 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  All CMU AD has to do is ask her own people (starting with McElwain) - who is this guy (assuming she does not know)?

Yeah, it could be that no one knows who he is, haha. There are always so many people on the sidelines of every game who are not players/coaches. Perhaps no one from CMU knew who he was or even thought twice about him being on the sideline because he blended right in....

It still doesn't explain how he got the credentials to be on the field, and with his name no where to be found, it's super sketch.

Harder to deny a connection to UM high-level coaches at this point. What would be in it for CMU to allow this guy there? Someone had to reach out to arrange it and only the Harbaugh-McElwane connection makes any sense. “Hey Jim Mc! Could you do us a favor?” Doesn’t make CMU look good but def makes UM look worse.

God I hope it’s true for entertainment and comedy purposes. But I’m still having a hard time believing CMU’s mystery man is Stallions. The pics all look similar but not a slam-dunk. (For starters, CMU’s “Stalions” appears to have hair underneath that cap when he’s bald elsewhere).

Still, the fact that CMU hasn’t ID’ed that guy after 24 hours of investigation is pretty odd, and a bit embarrassing for them.

Good reporting here by Jared Ramsey of the Detroit Free Press:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/unive...407354007/

(10-31-2023 06:45 PM)MacLord Wrote:  Harder to deny a connection to UM high-level coaches at this point. What would be in it for CMU to allow this guy there? Someone had to reach out to arrange it and only the Harbaugh-McElwane connection makes any sense. “Hey Jim Mc! Could you do us a favor?” Doesn’t make CMU look good but def makes UM look worse.

It might have been more Harbaugh doing McElwain the favor.

(11-01-2023 01:56 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 06:45 PM)MacLord Wrote:  Harder to deny a connection to UM high-level coaches at this point. What would be in it for CMU to allow this guy there? Someone had to reach out to arrange it and only the Harbaugh-McElwane connection makes any sense. “Hey Jim Mc! Could you do us a favor?” Doesn’t make CMU look good but def makes UM look worse.

It might have been more Harbaugh doing McElwain the favor.

I personally see it the opposite way. I think CMU allowed Stalions (if him) on the sideline to scout MSU.

Once again, if CMU was complicit in any of this we deserve punishment. UM cannot seem to admit the same though, sadly.

(11-01-2023 01:56 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 06:45 PM)MacLord Wrote:  Harder to deny a connection to UM high-level coaches at this point. What would be in it for CMU to allow this guy there? Someone had to reach out to arrange it and only the Harbaugh-McElwane connection makes any sense. “Hey Jim Mc! Could you do us a favor?” Doesn’t make CMU look good but def makes UM look worse.

It might have been more Harbaugh doing McElwain the favor.

It didn't help CMU at all though if it was a favor to McElwain, as CMU still lost 31-7 in that opening game to a (as we now know) really bad MSU team.

(11-01-2023 02:11 PM)Warhawks222 Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 01:56 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 06:45 PM)MacLord Wrote:  Harder to deny a connection to UM high-level coaches at this point. What would be in it for CMU to allow this guy there? Someone had to reach out to arrange it and only the Harbaugh-McElwane connection makes any sense. “Hey Jim Mc! Could you do us a favor?” Doesn’t make CMU look good but def makes UM look worse.

It might have been more Harbaugh doing McElwain the favor.

It didn't help CMU at all though if it was a favor to McElwain, as CMU still lost 31-7 in that opening game to a (as we now know) really bad MSU team.

I think it's safe to say that the Mel Tucker drama -- and his subsequent removal -- has affected MSU's play this season. They were a better team when we played them, IMO.

Getting interesting, how hard is it to track this person down since the passes are individually numbered?

ESPN Wrote:Chippewas coach Jim McElwain said last week that Stalions' name did not appear on any list of credentials for the Michigan State game. According to NCAA rules, the "team area" during games includes a maximum of 50 non-squad members "directly involved in the game." Those not in full uniform wear special credentials assigned to the team area that are numbered 1 through 50. NCAA rules prohibit any other credentials in the team area.

"We obviously are aware of a picture floating around with the sign-stealer guy," McElwain said Tuesday. "Our people are doing everything they can to get to the bottom of it. We were totally unaware of it. I certainly don't condone it in any way, shape or form. I do know that his name was on none of the passes that were [given] out. Now we just keep tracing it back and tracing it back and try to figure it out."

The NCAA's involvement likely will extend the timeline for the investigative process and any potential discipline. Its findings could be included in a larger notice of allegations for Michigan, which has yet to be sent.

Anil Jain, a distinguished professor in the Michigan State Department of Computer Science and Engineering and a nationally recognized facial recognition expert, believes it's "highly likely" that the images of the man wearing sunglasses and a hat on the Central Michigan sideline and of Stalions on the Michigan sideline are the same person.

At ESPN's request, Jain and Steven Grosz, a doctoral student, used state-of-the-art commercial face recognition system to compare the two photographs. The system compared the images based on several facial characteristics -- Jain said they are trade secrets -- to provide a similarity score in the range of zero to 1. The higher the similarity score, the more likely the two faces being compared are the same person.

Jain said the system produced a similarity score of 0.6 when comparing the two photographs. To validate that score, Jain and Grosz compared Stalions' photo to a database of more than 4,500 photos of white males.

"The reason why it's 0.6 is because there's a disguise," Jain told ESPN. "If I take an identical photo, it would be 1. Even changes in the pose, illumination, expression, sunglasses, the match will never be perfect. Based on this analysis, the two images are of the same person with high confidence."