(12-23-2023 09:42 PM)nole Wrote:  Money aside.

ESPN actively worked against the ACC in the CFP. That is not a small issue. I dont' expect it to improve when it grows to 12.

When your network partner is no different than your competitor, you have a major fundamental issue.

Gotta hand it to ya, Nole - you've been banging that drum for years. Nobody expected FSU to get cheated by the CFP the way they were... except maybe you.

Is it too late for a compromise? No

That is why FSU is going to Court, they want to leave and they think the number is 572M and the ACC thinks it is 750M... The court can decide what the number is.

The bigger question is: Will FSU actually leave once the number is given????... Lets say the Judge say your number is 500m to leave after the 2024-25 season... Will FSU pony up 500M??? Or will they wait another 5 or 6 years when the number is around 150M to leave???

(12-23-2023 10:43 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-23-2023 09:42 PM)nole Wrote:  Money aside.

ESPN actively worked against the ACC in the CFP. That is not a small issue. I dont' expect it to improve when it grows to 12.

When your network partner is no different than your competitor, you have a major fundamental issue.

Gotta hand it to ya, Nole - you've been banging that drum for years. Nobody expected FSU to get cheated by the CFP the way they were... except maybe you.

I appreciate the recognition of our past conversations. When you go against the grain.....you rarely to never get anything but flack and get called a conspiracy therorist. Humans have a herd mindset and attack those that dare go against the herd.

I wish I had been wrong about everything. I wanted the ACC to work, I didn't want ESPN to treat the ACC like a 3rd class citizen (this isn't just recent events, this is for much of the last 15 years), I didn't want Swofford to consider his son over the conference, I didn't want Thrasher to sign off on horrible contracts, etc.

The only good thing about the CFP invitational snub is it showed most of the world that the fix was in. That ESPN would really do anything to push their primary investment, SEC. Frankly, they have done an amazing job pushing SEC propaganda. It worked. Seriously.

Sadly, anything that got in the way of that got attacked or demeaned. Including it's own properties. I am just over FSU being tied to a business partern (ESPN) that has been so aggressive over the years to hurt FSU. With friends like these, who needs enemies.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't get how you can be in a contract with a business partner and they basically torpedo you and that's kosher. I'm just over it. I would love to have FSU tied to a TV network that didn't consider it a threat and instead would want to promote it's investment.

(12-23-2023 09:42 PM)nole Wrote:  Money aside.

ESPN actively worked against the ACC in the CFP. That is not a small issue. I dont' expect it to improve when it grows to 12.

When your network partner is no different than your competitor, you have a major fundamental issue.

Yep!

ESPN is a bunch of jerks and they took the path of least resistance.
CBS made the SEC, ESPN just profited from the CBS investment.

(12-23-2023 06:01 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  the other issue with this suggestion is the same issue as people wanting 32, 48, 60 teams to break away....who is going to be the whipping boy so that other teams can go 12-0 and 11-1

you have 9 teams listed so they are going to play 8 conference games in their "upper tier" of the conference......they you say "suggest" they play others in the lower tier so if they play even one of them that becomes 9 "conference games" for the overall "ACC"......if a team played two then they have played 10 conference games......that becomes destructive to the conference overall because you are guaranteeing the overall conference more losses without the chance to get a win that does not also include a loss for the conference (which is what an OOC game offers)

this is the reason that the SEC SEC SEC and ACC play 8 conference games because they are the only two conferences that are smart enough to understand that you gain better strength of conference by beating teams in OTHER CONFERENCES not beating up your own conference

hell there was even a study done on the PAC 12 that proved this and the PAC 12 coaches argued for 8 conference games over and over, but larry tennis boy scott would not allow it

the Big 10 even questioned the wisdom of 9 conference games the first year after moving to that model, but they are simply not smart enough to reverse the decision

in addition the real issue is with those 9 "upper division" teams playing 8 games between them even if they play no other conference games there are still going to have to be terrible teams if you are going to have a team that is undefeated and a team with 1 loss

I mean simple math just works like that if one team beats all 8 of the others and another beats all the others but one then you are going to have 7 other teams with at least two losses......eventually a couple or more of those 9 teams will become weaker and start to be 4 or 5 game winners and they will lose more OOC games and they will lose a lot more of their "lower division" conference games than they win......and at that point why are they still getting $65 million per year when a team or two in the "lower division" of the conference might be winning 9 or more games consistently

I am sure someone will bring up euro soccer here and "relegation"......but that nonsense does not work for college football and would be a disaster to try and schedule and to try and keep in person fan support for......you start making it impossible to keep any meaningful rivalries consistently, you start making it impossible for fans to schedule what games they want to see 8-10 months out like many people do for major rivalry games

it is just a really good way to further ruin college football (along with this idea overall)

PS think of the budgeting issues.....the dunces that run these college programs cannot find a way to not spend every dollar that comes in with $100 to $200 million dollar revenue streams and academic side subsidies......what will some of these ADs to if their program is relegated down to the "lower division" and they have $25 million less coming in from the conference for at least a year maybe several until they move back up.......they will fall apart completely

Also...once they get to the Super 2 of say 40-48 schools playing at the highest level....do they think the rest of us are just going to gather around tv sets and watch their new league, while we have been sent to sub levels? Meaning, tv ratings will plummet from current all interested numbers, then $ sink, salaries cut, etc etc....

Alabama is a better team than FSU right now. It's not about "deserving"

(12-24-2023 09:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  Alabama is a better team than FSU right now. It's not about "deserving"

Did you actually watch the Iron Bowl?

(12-24-2023 12:35 AM)nole Wrote:  I'm not a lawyer, but I don't get how you can be in a contract with a business partner and they basically torpedo you and that's kosher. I'm just over it. I would love to have FSU tied to a TV network that didn't consider it a threat and instead would want to promote it's investment.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I was able to get some info from one*... Technically, it IS illegal to do what ESPN is doing. They are violating the implied "Good faith" aspect of their contract with the ACC.

That said, it is VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVE that ESPN is intentionally tearing down the ACC in relation to the SEC. If you could obtain emails, meeting minutes, etc. then you might find a "smoking gun". Let's hope this lawsuit does just that (or it forces ESPN into a generous settlement).


* see "Sue who? there might be a case" on my blogl

(12-24-2023 11:23 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 09:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  Alabama is a better team than FSU right now. It's not about "deserving"

Did you actually watch the Iron Bowl?

I did. And I watched Boston College - FSU too.


.

(12-24-2023 11:34 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 11:23 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 09:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  Alabama is a better team than FSU right now. It's not about "deserving"

Did you actually watch the Iron Bowl?

I did. And I watched Boston College - FSU too.


.

FSU didn't need a miracle to beat BC.

(12-24-2023 11:34 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 11:34 AM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 11:23 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 09:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  Alabama is a better team than FSU right now. It's not about "deserving"

Did you actually watch the Iron Bowl?

I did. And I watched Boston College - FSU too.


.

FSU didn't need a miracle to beat BC.

This is true...but they were still lucky to beat BC on that day, IMO.

(12-24-2023 11:23 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 09:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  Alabama is a better team than FSU right now. It's not about "deserving"

Did you actually watch the Iron Bowl?

I did. My wife hates Bama haha

I’m just telling you who I would put money on at the end of the month. Bama would be an easy pick over FSU. Full strength UGa as well.

Does that mean they are more deserving? No. I think Michigan and Washington are overrated and haven’t played anyone.

I’ve also learned the ACC would be better off scheduling 9 conference games and very weak OOC schedules. Apparently that is rewarded while actually playing and beating teams from the SEC isn’t important.

All that said, Bama would be favored over FSU today and that is what the committee based their decision on.

(12-24-2023 11:27 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 12:35 AM)nole Wrote:  I'm not a lawyer, but I don't get how you can be in a contract with a business partner and they basically torpedo you and that's kosher. I'm just over it. I would love to have FSU tied to a TV network that didn't consider it a threat and instead would want to promote it's investment.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I was able to get some info from one*... Technically, it IS illegal to do what ESPN is doing. They are violating the implied "Good faith" aspect of their contract with the ACC.

That said, it is VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVE that ESPN is intentionally tearing down the ACC in relation to the SEC. If you could obtain emails, meeting minutes, etc. then you might find a "smoking gun". Let's hope this lawsuit does just that (or it forces ESPN into a generous settlement).


* see "Sue who? there might be a case" on my blogl

Agreed, it will be tough to prove.

FSU will use DISCOVERY of this lawsuit to find all it can on ESPN. I know this, despite it being tough to prove, ESPN does NOT want DISCOVERY to happen. They will fight hard to get it to that point. I don't believe for a minute they have privately meet their part of the deal.

-So this was the first time ever "deserving" was used to supplant a P5 conf champ that was undefeated. Even a 1 loss TCH didn't lose their spot. This is a direct shot at the ACC. You guys don't see, but you don't want to. It's reality. The CFB call you "so called P5" directly.

-Vegas odds was never used to decide who was in the CFP. If it was, I agree, FSU isn't top 4. But again, how is FSU above UGA now? FSU is a 14 point dog to UGA now. So again, the logic by CFB is total BS.

-This very page is symbolic of the ACC. It doesn't fight for it's own. It is more likely to fight for another conference. You are alone in this conference. There is NO benefit to it. It only seeks to share money.....unless it's ND (because most of the money is football $). But it does not provide the shelter other conferences offer. SEC fought hard to get Bama into the playoffs after making it 8 out of 10 years. ACC didn't even try this year.

-CFB "You can't go to playoffs your schedule sucks" Also CFB "How dare you wanna leave the ACC". (ACC fans "that's right")........ridiculous logic. FSU has no choice to find a different home because it can't win in the current environment.

(12-24-2023 04:03 PM)nole Wrote:  -So this was the first time ever "deserving" was used to supplant a P5 conf champ that was undefeated. Even a 1 loss TCH didn't lose their spot. This is a direct shot at the ACC. You guys don't see, but you don't want to. It's reality. The CFB call you "so called P5" directly.

-Vegas odds was never used to decide who was in the CFP. If it was, I agree, FSU isn't top 4. But again, how is FSU above UGA now? FSU is a 14 point dog to UGA now. So again, the logic by CFB is total BS.

-This very page is symbolic of the ACC. It doesn't fight for it's own. It is more likely to fight for another conference. You are alone in this conference. There is NO benefit to it. It only seeks to share money.....unless it's ND (because most of the money is football $). But it does not provide the shelter other conferences offer. SEC fought hard to get Bama into the playoffs after making it 8 out of 10 years. ACC didn't even try this year.

-CFB "You can't go to playoffs your schedule sucks" Also CFB "How dare you wanna leave the ACC". (ACC fans "that's right")........ridiculous logic. FSU has no choice to find a different home because it can't win in the current environment.

- Yes, it was the first time, but it's also a committee of different people than many other times.

- Good question. I think it was sympathy to FSU as in "you were really close."

- It's my understanding the ACC has known for some time FSU was going to file a suit. So, what's the point? Besides, it wouldn't have made a difference. Alabama is an absolute juggernaut and whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not, the performance of their program is going to come into play. As far as me fighting for FSU, I believe they should have been in at number 3 or 4. Doesn't matter what I believe, I'm not on the committee and I am just relaying what was the major point of their decision: Travis being out and lackluster offensive performances. Doesn't mean I believe it should matter.

- Once again. FSU has won a natty in a harder situation. Clemson has made multiple playoff appearances and titles. Your QB doesn't get hurt, then we might have seen gymnastics to keep Texas out.

(12-24-2023 06:48 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  Also...once they get to the Super 2 of say 40-48 schools playing at the highest level....do they think the rest of us are just going to gather around tv sets and watch their new league, while we have been sent to sub levels? Meaning, tv ratings will plummet from current all interested numbers, then $ sink, salaries cut, etc etc....

excellent point and I agree 100%

they act like because it is being marketed as a "higher level" that for some reason people will just have to tune in.....and watch teams that most have no ties to and that a lot of them can't stand especially after their own team has been cast aside

there are issues with 128 D1-A teams, but at the same time I have watched some really good D1-AA games in the past when teams were evenly matched up and there are plenty of states where high school football is wildly entertaining and where fans show up because that is their school, their town, or their kids school

I am ready for a lot of these "athletes" that place no value on a college education to get tossed off of campus and I have ZERO concerns about how entertaining the games will be with a massive % of them in minor league football (that I will probably ignore) or working the drive through or bagging groceries.....I have more concern about the quality of service at those restaurants and stores than the play on the field

and as you said wait until the attendance and donations tank (especially for the teams that move consistently to the bottom of those 48 or 60 teams) and the money dries up and these athletics programs are looking at $30 to $40 million dollar deficits.....then the TV ratings and money takes a hit

(12-24-2023 04:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 04:03 PM)nole Wrote:  -So this was the first time ever "deserving" was used to supplant a P5 conf champ that was undefeated. Even a 1 loss TCH didn't lose their spot. This is a direct shot at the ACC. You guys don't see, but you don't want to. It's reality. The CFB call you "so called P5" directly.

-Vegas odds was never used to decide who was in the CFP. If it was, I agree, FSU isn't top 4. But again, how is FSU above UGA now? FSU is a 14 point dog to UGA now. So again, the logic by CFB is total BS.

-This very page is symbolic of the ACC. It doesn't fight for it's own. It is more likely to fight for another conference. You are alone in this conference. There is NO benefit to it. It only seeks to share money.....unless it's ND (because most of the money is football $). But it does not provide the shelter other conferences offer. SEC fought hard to get Bama into the playoffs after making it 8 out of 10 years. ACC didn't even try this year.

-CFB "You can't go to playoffs your schedule sucks" Also CFB "How dare you wanna leave the ACC". (ACC fans "that's right")........ridiculous logic. FSU has no choice to find a different home because it can't win in the current environment.

- Yes, it was the first time, but it's also a committee of different people than many other times.

- Good question. I think it was sympathy to FSU as in "you were really close."

- It's my understanding the ACC has known for some time FSU was going to file a suit. So, what's the point? Besides, it wouldn't have made a difference. Alabama is an absolute juggernaut and whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not, the performance of their program is going to come into play. As far as me fighting for FSU, I believe they should have been in at number 3 or 4. Doesn't matter what I believe, I'm not on the committee and I am just relaying what was the major point of their decision: Travis being out and lackluster offensive performances. Doesn't mean I believe it should matter.

- Once again. FSU has won a natty in a harder situation. Clemson has made multiple playoff appearances and titles. Your QB doesn't get hurt, then we might have seen gymnastics to keep Texas out.

Well it is definitely impossible to win a natty if a committee and network take your chance away to do so. Can't win if you aren't allowed to play..

nole hit the nail on the head. This board is a perfect representation of the acc.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Compromise: FSU gets their football rights back, pays $100m and get's a ND deal to stay in the ACC. The ACC members get a nice boost in revenue, the ACC saves face and acts like they can be reasonable, the GoRs are not tested, dirty laundry stays in house, the ACC stabilizes. FSU get's greater control of their schedule, distances itself from a tarnished football reputation (thanks ESPN) of the ACC, FSU finds a tv deal that makes them closer to what they want.

(12-24-2023 08:03 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Compromise: FSU gets their football rights back, pays $100m and get's a ND deal to stay in the ACC. The ACC members get a nice boost in revenue, the ACC saves face and acts like they can be reasonable, the GoRs are not tested, dirty laundry stays in house, the ACC stabilizes. FSU get's greater control of their schedule, distances itself from a tarnished football reputation (thanks ESPN) of the ACC, FSU finds a tv deal that makes them closer to what they want.

https://twitter.com/GSwaim/status/1738409999796183206

y'all nothing special ...

'TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE XMAS

(12-24-2023 08:28 PM)green Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 08:03 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Compromise: FSU gets their football rights back, pays $100m and get's a ND deal to stay in the ACC. The ACC members get a nice boost in revenue, the ACC saves face and acts like they can be reasonable, the GoRs are not tested, dirty laundry stays in house, the ACC stabilizes. FSU get's greater control of their schedule, distances itself from a tarnished football reputation (thanks ESPN) of the ACC, FSU finds a tv deal that makes them closer to what they want.

https://twitter.com/GSwaim/status/1738409999796183206

y'all nothing special ...

'TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE XMAS

FSU was the first to challenge the GoRs and for that we will always be "special".