(01-29-2024 11:29 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 10:55 AM)Claw Wrote:  It looks really bad, but we do have to finish the season.

Assuming nothing changes, I wonder if Crean would consider it?

Good lord no


I don’t know who we would or could get, but we don’t need an old retread a la Tubby Smith. Not sure I would trust our big $ folks and athletic dept to make a good hire anyway. They got us Silverfield, Pastner and Tubby. Once Penny is gone, whether being fired or by his own choosing, we become just another team in this horrible conference (hell, we may be that now with Penny) and Tiger basketball becomes just like football and is a stepping stone for coaches into the power leagues. It is what it is as long as we are stuck here

You cannot compare football to basketball because of how post season play is structured in both sports. Memphis provides a basketball coach the ability to compete every single year. Football is setup to be exclusive to a few powerful conferences. Basketball is really the opposite where it is setup to give lower conferences a chance.

(01-29-2024 10:03 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 07:33 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The season’s change but the results do not.

Year 6 & we’re still watching dysfunctional basketball & broken teams. Last year, he had Kendrick, & Kendrick led his team. This year, the team is again rudderless. Stansbury looks miserable. Penny looks lost… and the team has quit.

This program needs leadership.

I mean, the results have changed year-to-year.
3 years ago, we won the NIT.
2 years ago, we played for the AAC championship and won a 1st round NCAA game.
Last year, we won the AAC and were a bad call away from knocking off an eventual Final 4 team.
There has been definite progress every year.
So I think that's an unfair assessment made in the worst of times this year.
Let's see what it looks like after the season before calling for his head.

Agreed.

It's all about how a team overcomes temporary adversity and finishes the season.

Penny's teams have done it before; I pray he can help these young men rediscover the "dog" inside of themselves and git'er done.

If you watched the game and listened to those in-game interviews (horrible idea) with the coaches - Kennedy sounded like a leader/coach. Penny sound like something you'd find down at the YMCA.

I had extremely high hopes for Penny when he first came on. I knew he'd connect with the high level players and bring them in, but I also suspected he'd go through some growing pains as a coach. He is a very likely guy, but you are now 6 years in and it just seems like the same wash, rinse, repeat cycle that hasn't changed and shows no sign of changing. I really wish he'd be the one to consistently get you deep runs in the NCAA, but I just don't see that happening.

I remember Nike created an alter ego for Penny with those Lil' Penny commercials back in the day because he was so soft spoken. Wish we could get that on the coaching side of things. Maybe then the team would respond better because we know the talent is there, but for whatever reason they aren't putting it together. I think Stansbury is a better X's and O's coach than Penny by far.

(01-28-2024 08:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 08:01 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  The administration isn't going to fire Penny. As long as they're bringing in money, who cares. I don't think they care about "on field" performance as long as everyone is happy. And if the Tigers make the tournament, then everything is okay (even in reality, they're not)!!!

I think, at some point, the people paying the NIL’s are going to stop.

you mean person?

(01-29-2024 11:39 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 11:29 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 10:55 AM)Claw Wrote:  It looks really bad, but we do have to finish the season.

Assuming nothing changes, I wonder if Crean would consider it?

Good lord no


I don’t know who we would or could get, but we don’t need an old retread a la Tubby Smith. Not sure I would trust our big $ folks and athletic dept to make a good hire anyway. They got us Silverfield, Pastner and Tubby. Once Penny is gone, whether being fired or by his own choosing, we become just another team in this horrible conference (hell, we may be that now with Penny) and Tiger basketball becomes just like football and is a stepping stone for coaches into the power leagues. It is what it is as long as we are stuck here

You cannot compare football to basketball because of how post season play is structured in both sports. Memphis provides a basketball coach the ability to compete every single year. Football is setup to be exclusive to a few powerful conferences. Basketball is really the opposite where it is setup to give lower conferences a chance.

Memphis has a top 20 basketball budget… a substantial NIL… great facilities… big time support… and receives equal media coverage to the local NBA team. The right coach could have a Sweet 16 contender in 2 years… hell, watch Chris Beard do it at Ole Miss.

(01-29-2024 11:58 AM)ByrdDogX Wrote:  If you watched the game and listened to those in-game interviews (horrible idea) with the coaches - Kennedy sounded like a leader/coach. Penny sound like something you'd find down at the YMCA.

I had extremely high hopes for Penny when he first came on. I knew he'd connect with the high level players and bring them in, but I also suspected he'd go through some growing pains as a coach. He is a very likely guy, but you are now 6 years in and it just seems like the same wash, rinse, repeat cycle that hasn't changed and shows no sign of changing. I really wish he'd be the one to consistently get you deep runs in the NCAA, but I just don't see that happening.

I remember Nike created an alter ego for Penny with those Lil' Penny commercials back in the day because he was so soft spoken. Wish we could get that on the coaching side of things. Maybe then the team would respond better because we know the talent is there, but for whatever reason they aren't putting it together. I think Stansbury is a better X's and O's coach than Penny by far.

I noticed that Kennedy was being vocal with instructions to his team on the floor. Penny was being vocal with his complaints to people on his bench.

(01-29-2024 01:21 PM)Rodney Carney Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 11:58 AM)ByrdDogX Wrote:  If you watched the game and listened to those in-game interviews (horrible idea) with the coaches - Kennedy sounded like a leader/coach. Penny sound like something you'd find down at the YMCA.

I had extremely high hopes for Penny when he first came on. I knew he'd connect with the high level players and bring them in, but I also suspected he'd go through some growing pains as a coach. He is a very likely guy, but you are now 6 years in and it just seems like the same wash, rinse, repeat cycle that hasn't changed and shows no sign of changing. I really wish he'd be the one to consistently get you deep runs in the NCAA, but I just don't see that happening.

I remember Nike created an alter ego for Penny with those Lil' Penny commercials back in the day because he was so soft spoken. Wish we could get that on the coaching side of things. Maybe then the team would respond better because we know the talent is there, but for whatever reason they aren't putting it together. I think Stansbury is a better X's and O's coach than Penny by far.

I noticed that Kennedy was being vocal with instructions to his team on the floor. Penny was being vocal with his complaints to people on his bench.

It has been clear from day 1 that he does not like to ruffle feathers, whether that is players or refs.

I get it, I own a business with about 35 employees. I strongly dislike the part of my job where I have to be tough on employees who are not performing but it also comes with the role and is necessary.

You really cannot manage a team of any kind operating out of fear of occasionally hurting feelings. I have seen people try that. They never bring up issues and always try to be nice and one of two things happens. 1. they get runover and completely lose control 2. they get fed up and just fire the person and that person is completely confused because the manager never addressed the problem so the employee knew nothing was even wrong.

Pursing perfection is what we all want. Mediocrity is what we've gotten. Kind of hard to put all the blame on the kids when you are the one who goes out and recruits them. You can't blame it on the arena. You can't blame it on facilities. So, where is the real breakdown? Can't blame it on the scheduling because you are the one who helps set that up. Why does Memphis always seem to have drama going on each and every year?

One thing I've watched over the past few years is assistant coaches during the game. Something has always seemed a little off with Penny and his coaches. Every wonder to yourself why they don't come back? From what I have observed, he just blows them off and I have seen him push them away. Stansbury is the latest and I can just about promise you, he ain't coming back. He looks so pissed off sitting there on the sidelines watching all this unfold. He never seemed to listen to Larry Brown at all. Why even have assistant coaches if you are not going to listen to them?

If you listened to Penny during the game on Saturday, he sounded like an imbecile. I've heard high school coaches give better instructions than what he was giving. If you don't think that little bit of sound bite is going to be used against him in recruiting then I would argue that it will be.

If he decides to quit, retire or whatever, then him leaving won't be such a big deal. If someone has to meet him beside the snow cone machine and let him go, then you know there's going to be an uproar. This is the problem with letting former athletes come back home to coach. Being a NBA super star only adds gas to the flame. It won't be pretty if the university decides to let him go.

(01-29-2024 01:44 PM)TigerinFL Wrote:  Pursing perfection is what we all want. Mediocrity is what we've gotten. Kind of hard to put all the blame on the kids when you are the one who goes out and recruits them. You can't blame it on the arena. You can't blame it on facilities. So, where is the real breakdown? Can't blame it on the scheduling because you are the one who helps set that up. Why does Memphis always seem to have drama going on each and every year?

One thing I've watched over the past few years is assistant coaches during the game. Something has always seemed a little off with Penny and his coaches. Every wonder to yourself why they don't come back? From what I have observed, he just blows them off and I have seen him push them away. Stansbury is the latest and I can just about promise you, he ain't coming back. He looks so pissed off sitting there on the sidelines watching all this unfold. He never seemed to listen to Larry Brown at all. Why even have assistant coaches if you are not going to listen to them?

If you listened to Penny during the game on Saturday, he sounded like an imbecile. I've heard high school coaches give better instructions than what he was giving. If you don't think that little bit of sound bite is going to be used against him in recruiting then I would argue that it will be.

If he decides to quit, retire or whatever, then him leaving won't be such a big deal. If someone has to meet him beside the snow cone machine and let him go, then you know there's going to be an uproar. This is the problem with letting former athletes come back home to coach. Being a NBA super star only adds gas to the flame. It won't be pretty if the university decides to let him go.

No chance he is getting fired at the end of this year. Perhaps it would be a discussion next year if it is a disaster. But he also has plenty of time to turn this year around and for the first time in his career he actually built a good enough resume early on that we could afford a few bad losses without being resigned to winning the conference tournament for a tournament bid.

(01-29-2024 01:44 PM)TigerinFL Wrote:  Pursing perfection is what we all want. Mediocrity is what we've gotten. Kind of hard to put all the blame on the kids when you are the one who goes out and recruits them. You can't blame it on the arena. You can't blame it on facilities. So, where is the real breakdown? Can't blame it on the scheduling because you are the one who helps set that up. Why does Memphis always seem to have drama going on each and every year?

One thing I've watched over the past few years is assistant coaches during the game. Something has always seemed a little off with Penny and his coaches. Every wonder to yourself why they don't come back? From what I have observed, he just blows them off and I have seen him push them away. Stansbury is the latest and I can just about promise you, he ain't coming back. He looks so pissed off sitting there on the sidelines watching all this unfold. He never seemed to listen to Larry Brown at all. Why even have assistant coaches if you are not going to listen to them?

If you listened to Penny during the game on Saturday, he sounded like an imbecile. I've heard high school coaches give better instructions than what he was giving. If you don't think that little bit of sound bite is going to be used against him in recruiting then I would argue that it will be.

If he decides to quit, retire or whatever, then him leaving won't be such a big deal. If someone has to meet him beside the snow cone machine and let him go, then you know there's going to be an uproar. This is the problem with letting former athletes come back home to coach. Being a NBA super star only adds gas to the flame. It won't be pretty if the university decides to let him go.

Penny mic’d up during the game was brutal. He seemed completely unsure of himself & almost hesitant to call anything.

Heck, no wonder he didn’t get the TO in the waning seconds against USF because he calls it in his mind but whispers it to the refs or his team. I suppose it covers both bases… if JQ makes the shot, its what they called, if he misses it, then he wasn’t awarded a TO. Regardless, feckless leadership is the mark of this team… where is KD when you need him?

I don't know the solution to the problems, but I'm pretty sure of one thing. Anybody expecting Penny in year 6 to do a complete 180° turnaround on his coaching philosophy in order to right the ship is sorely mistaken. The fix is going to have to come from somewhere else, and I'm not really confident that's going to happen.

(01-28-2024 09:01 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 08:52 PM)mapdude Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 08:38 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 08:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 08:01 PM)GoDownSwinging Wrote:  The administration isn't going to fire Penny. As long as they're bringing in money, who cares. I don't think they care about "on field" performance as long as everyone is happy. And if the Tigers make the tournament, then everything is okay (even in reality, they're not)!!!

I think, at some point, the people paying the NIL’s are going to stop.

That’s what I’m thinking, too. Not just the NILs but the salaries and the basketball donations and so on. At some point they may want to see some sort of ROI for their money.

Yeah, it's not like the university will up and get rid of the coach because people stop coming to the games and writing checks to the scholarship fund...that would never happen to us...

And now with NIL, Penny's best characteristic is no longer valid. We could go scoop up the best XO coach possible and throw the same NIL behind him since recruiting isn't a thing anymore. With Penny all we have is great NIL and no coach.

What? You still have to recruit the players NIL or not. Do you think Tubby would suddenly start bringing in top flight transfers if he was here?

(01-29-2024 03:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 01:44 PM)TigerinFL Wrote:  Pursing perfection is what we all want. Mediocrity is what we've gotten. Kind of hard to put all the blame on the kids when you are the one who goes out and recruits them. You can't blame it on the arena. You can't blame it on facilities. So, where is the real breakdown? Can't blame it on the scheduling because you are the one who helps set that up. Why does Memphis always seem to have drama going on each and every year?

One thing I've watched over the past few years is assistant coaches during the game. Something has always seemed a little off with Penny and his coaches. Every wonder to yourself why they don't come back? From what I have observed, he just blows them off and I have seen him push them away. Stansbury is the latest and I can just about promise you, he ain't coming back. He looks so pissed off sitting there on the sidelines watching all this unfold. He never seemed to listen to Larry Brown at all. Why even have assistant coaches if you are not going to listen to them?

If you listened to Penny during the game on Saturday, he sounded like an imbecile. I've heard high school coaches give better instructions than what he was giving. If you don't think that little bit of sound bite is going to be used against him in recruiting then I would argue that it will be.

If he decides to quit, retire or whatever, then him leaving won't be such a big deal. If someone has to meet him beside the snow cone machine and let him go, then you know there's going to be an uproar. This is the problem with letting former athletes come back home to coach. Being a NBA super star only adds gas to the flame. It won't be pretty if the university decides to let him go.

Penny mic’d up during the game was brutal. He seemed completely unsure of himself & almost hesitant to call anything.

Heck, no wonder he didn’t get the TO in the waning seconds against USF because he calls it in his mind but whispers it to the refs or his team. I suppose it covers both bases… if JQ makes the shot, its what they called, if he misses it, then he wasn’t awarded a TO. Regardless, feckless leadership is the mark of this team… where is KD when you need him?

In the game thread Oldmangrizz made a comment about not wanting to listen to Kennedy and I replied that I found it very interesting and hoped we got to hear Penny as well.... I was wrong, we did NOT want to hear Penny. It was not what I was expecting. Might as well have been a player's dad on the front row and not the coach and I am a Penny fan. If he doesnt take us to a Sweet 16 this season I will no longer be a coach Penny fan.

(01-29-2024 05:11 PM)Fluke Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 09:01 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 08:52 PM)mapdude Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 08:38 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(01-28-2024 08:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think, at some point, the people paying the NIL’s are going to stop.

That’s what I’m thinking, too. Not just the NILs but the salaries and the basketball donations and so on. At some point they may want to see some sort of ROI for their money.

Yeah, it's not like the university will up and get rid of the coach because people stop coming to the games and writing checks to the scholarship fund...that would never happen to us...

And now with NIL, Penny's best characteristic is no longer valid. We could go scoop up the best XO coach possible and throw the same NIL behind him since recruiting isn't a thing anymore. With Penny all we have is great NIL and no coach.

What? You still have to recruit the players NIL or not. Do you think Tubby would suddenly start bringing in top flight transfers if he was here?

I agree with you. NIL just brought payments above board but for the most part it is a level playing field. Ala, we are not bringing in an "Xs & Os" coach and boosters will all of sudden double the NIL budget so we can offer double what every other school is. Quinnerly did not take a significantly reduced NIL deal to play for Penny. I am sure he had similar offers and Penny's recruiting ability landed him.

(01-29-2024 06:04 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 03:13 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(01-29-2024 01:44 PM)TigerinFL Wrote:  Pursing perfection is what we all want. Mediocrity is what we've gotten. Kind of hard to put all the blame on the kids when you are the one who goes out and recruits them. You can't blame it on the arena. You can't blame it on facilities. So, where is the real breakdown? Can't blame it on the scheduling because you are the one who helps set that up. Why does Memphis always seem to have drama going on each and every year?

One thing I've watched over the past few years is assistant coaches during the game. Something has always seemed a little off with Penny and his coaches. Every wonder to yourself why they don't come back? From what I have observed, he just blows them off and I have seen him push them away. Stansbury is the latest and I can just about promise you, he ain't coming back. He looks so pissed off sitting there on the sidelines watching all this unfold. He never seemed to listen to Larry Brown at all. Why even have assistant coaches if you are not going to listen to them?

If you listened to Penny during the game on Saturday, he sounded like an imbecile. I've heard high school coaches give better instructions than what he was giving. If you don't think that little bit of sound bite is going to be used against him in recruiting then I would argue that it will be.

If he decides to quit, retire or whatever, then him leaving won't be such a big deal. If someone has to meet him beside the snow cone machine and let him go, then you know there's going to be an uproar. This is the problem with letting former athletes come back home to coach. Being a NBA super star only adds gas to the flame. It won't be pretty if the university decides to let him go.

Penny mic’d up during the game was brutal. He seemed completely unsure of himself & almost hesitant to call anything.

Heck, no wonder he didn’t get the TO in the waning seconds against USF because he calls it in his mind but whispers it to the refs or his team. I suppose it covers both bases… if JQ makes the shot, its what they called, if he misses it, then he wasn’t awarded a TO. Regardless, feckless leadership is the mark of this team… where is KD when you need him?

In the game thread Oldmangrizz made a comment about not wanting to listen to Kennedy and I replied that I found it very interesting and hoped we got to hear Penny as well.... I was wrong, we did NOT want to hear Penny. It was not what I was expecting. Might as well have been a player's dad on the front row and not the coach and I am a Penny fan. If he doesnt take us to a Sweet 16 this season I will no longer be a coach Penny fan.

And that's an important distinction because I will always be a fan of Penny the player and the person but he's showing everyone that he is not a good coach.

This experiment is beginning to look a lot like the Clyde Drexler experiment at Houston. I hate to see this happen. Unless Penny can improve (I am saying he must improve) there is going to be a lot of pain.

(01-29-2024 06:04 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  In the game thread Oldmangrizz made a comment about not wanting to listen to Kennedy and I replied that I found it very interesting and hoped we got to hear Penny as well.... I was wrong, we did NOT want to hear Penny. It was not what I was expecting. Might as well have been a player's dad on the front row and not the coach and I am a Penny fan. If he doesnt take us to a Sweet 16 this season I will no longer be a coach Penny fan.

Yeah, when they announced that they had Penny mic'ed up for the 2nd half, I turned to my wife and said "this is not going to end well...."

(01-29-2024 10:05 PM)Keeper Wrote:  This experiment is beginning to look a lot like the Clyde Drexler experiment at Houston. I hate to see this happen. Unless Penny can improve (I am saying he must improve) there is going to be a lot of pain.

Clyde Drexler at Houston
Patrick Ewing at Georgetown
Juwuan Howard at Michigan
Kris Mullen at St. John’s
Penny at Memphis.
I’m sure there are other examples

Penny has been most successful of all.
He is still underperforming.
Problem with penny is he not only played at Memphis but he grew up in Memphis. Other than Larry finch he is probably most beloved Tiger of all time. Arguably finch was better coach . Played in much tougher league and at least got us past first weekend of tournament. Will never happen with penny or highly unlikely without extreme luck. Will be difficult decision for administration to make but needs to be done. There will be definite racial undertones but administration and big boosters will have to fight thru it.

Drexler, Ewing, Mullin, Kenny Payne are/ were all terrible. Howard could walk away due to health reasons but he had at least 1 tournament run. Penny isn’t even close to being in the same category of awful as those other guys. That’s just laughable.

All college basketball coaches have their highs and lows. The guy won 10 in a row, including 3 straight over ranked SEC and ACC teams, before this 3 game stretch. He didn’t forget how to coach nor did his team forget how to play in the last 2 weeks. Say what you will but Penny, with 0 previous college coaching experience, he has had almost the exact same results as John Calipari did in his 1st 5 years at Memphis and he’d already taken UMass to F4 and failed as an NBA coach.

We are about to hit February and that so far is when Penny’s teams start putting it together. I’m down on him and this bunch at the moment but still think they have it in them to get hot again.

(01-28-2024 07:44 PM)memphis mania Wrote:  This post is extreme. As long as we are making the tournament I'd hold thoughts like this to myself. Don't get me wrong...I'm not happy abt living in bubble land, but as long as we are making the tournament, we'll be fine.

With that logic, Pastner should still be the coach...