FSU played both at least one each in this way, I believe it was in Jacksonville and Orlando.

Any idea why this was done and why it has not happened since?

(02-10-2024 06:03 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  FSU played both at least one each in this way, I believe it was in Jacksonville and Orlando.

Any idea why this was done and why it has not happened since?

Why is easy: ticket revenue probably FAR exceeded what these teams would've gotten at home.

Why make the good fans of Wake Forest travel that far beat y’all at home?

It was done to pacify FSU, which at the time wouldn’t be caught dead traveling to their stadiums as an Indy.

(02-10-2024 08:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  It was done to pacify FSU, which at the time wouldn’t be caught dead traveling to their stadiums as an Indy.

Sure it was

(02-10-2024 08:04 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 08:01 PM)esayem Wrote:  It was done to pacify FSU, which at the time wouldn’t be caught dead traveling to their stadiums as an Indy.

Sure it was

I really do think it was brokered when they joined the conference. FSU might have traveled to frothing Hattiesburg twice a decade but they darn sure weren’t traveling to Durham or Winston-Salem

(02-10-2024 06:03 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  FSU played both at least one each in this way, I believe it was in Jacksonville and Orlando.

Any idea why this was done and why it has not happened since?

What I heard was FSU paid them to move the games to Florida and then the ACC passed a rule that you couldn't do that any more because it was an unfair advantage to FSU.

I imagine Duke would have been willing to sell many other conference games in the 1990s and 2000s if they could.

(02-10-2024 09:11 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(02-10-2024 06:03 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  FSU played both at least one each in this way, I believe it was in Jacksonville and Orlando.

Any idea why this was done and why it has not happened since?

What I heard was FSU paid them to move the games to Florida and then the ACC passed a rule that you couldn't do that any more because it was an unfair advantage to FSU.

I imagine Duke would have been willing to sell many other conference games in the 1990s and 2000s if they could.

I'm pretty sure that 1999 game in Jacksonville was just that, but it got Duke out of athletic debt that they had.

Carolina played State twice in Charlotte.

A chance to play in an NFL stadium with a capacity of about 25,000 more that either could accommodate at home.
It was a stupid idea and was dropped.

Even after years of trying to get capacity crowds in Charlotte, the South Carolina/Carolina series moves back onto campuses in '28 and '29.
South Carolina initiated the series in Charlotte in an effort to grow their fan base, but the effort has fizzled over the last couple of games. Future series with ACC teams (Carolina, NC State, VT, and Miami) will be home and home series played on respective campuses.

(02-11-2024 12:32 PM)XLance Wrote:  Carolina played State twice in Charlotte.

A chance to play in an NFL stadium with a capacity of about 25,000 more that either could accommodate at home.
It was a stupid idea and was dropped.

Even after years of trying to get capacity crowds in Charlotte, the South Carolina/Carolina series moves back onto campuses in '28 and '29.
South Carolina initiated the series in Charlotte in an effort to grow their fan base, but the effort has fizzled over the last couple of games. Future series with ACC teams (Carolina, NC State, VT, and Miami) will be home and home series played on respective campuses.

Numbers dont really support that. The last game had the highest attendance, and was about 80 percent South Carolina fans

I seem to recall either Duke or Wake in the long ago past actually selling one of their home conference games to their opponent for cash. Is my memory just faulty, or did that really happen?

(02-16-2024 11:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  I seem to recall either Duke or Wake in the long ago past actually selling one of their home conference games to their opponent for cash. Is my memory just faulty, or did that really happen?

Yes Duke sold one and WF sold two home games to FSU in the 90's. There was an attempt to brand one of the WF sales as a neutral site game in Orlando. Of course no one was that stupid.

The ACC put a stop to it and with Duke in particular it precipitated the "Come to Jesus" meeting over Duke football.


The history of the SoCon/ACC and neutral site games is this:

The "Oyster" Bowl was played for years in Eastern Virginia. The teams were usually VT and some combination of MD, NC State, UVa, WF, and Duke. Georgia played in such a game as did Navy.

For decades Wake Forest played games in Winston Salem before they moved the entire University. They would play one or two such games a year against schools like Clemson, Davidson, etc. WF would also play SC and Clemson in Charlotte in the 1950's. NC State and Clemson played in Charlotte many times in the 1940's and 1950's. NC State and VT often played in the Tidewater during the same period.

The driving force for many of these games was small and or poor home stadiums and the fact that Wake County was dry as Death Valley and boring as Hell back then. When you see ACC from that time period going to Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and Miami, it's in part for liquor and women.

When Clemson beat Wake Forest 82-0 in Tokyo in the early 80's that left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

(02-13-2024 11:02 PM)ColumbusCard Wrote:  

(02-11-2024 12:32 PM)XLance Wrote:  Carolina played State twice in Charlotte.

A chance to play in an NFL stadium with a capacity of about 25,000 more that either could accommodate at home.
It was a stupid idea and was dropped.

Even after years of trying to get capacity crowds in Charlotte, the South Carolina/Carolina series moves back onto campuses in '28 and '29.
South Carolina initiated the series in Charlotte in an effort to grow their fan base, but the effort has fizzled over the last couple of games. Future series with ACC teams (Carolina, NC State, VT, and Miami) will be home and home series played on respective campuses.

Numbers dont really support that. The last game had the highest attendance, and was about 80 percent South Carolina fans

Of the last three such games, only the last one had a good crowd, but it was an evening game. That's part of the rub with any game with South Carolina. No one wants to be in Columbia in August or September. Knowledgeable fans don't want to be in Charlotte for a game in August or September for a daytime kick.

It's one thing to suffer in your home stadium, it's another to take it on the road.

Here is my personal "misery" index for an early September game in the Southeast. It's a combination of climate, altitude, and urban heat island:

1. Columbia - pure Hell - the worst
2. Atlanta and Charlotte - tied for second worst
4. Raleigh, Ole Miss, Georgia, and LSU - the humidity and direct sun wilts humans
8. FSU, UF, Bama, Auburn, UNC, Mississippi State, Duke better than the top 6
15. TN, UVa, VT, and WF - all three have an elevation boost between about 800 and 2,000 feet

Atlanta and Charlotte are also terrible in December and are as bad as UVa and VT in December.

(02-16-2024 02:26 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  When Clemson beat Wake Forest 82-0 in Tokyo in the early 80's that left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

That may be true, but it's the wrong takeaway. I remember that game. Clemson was national contender good, while Wake Forest was one of the worst FBS teams I'd ever seen (until Duke stole that title from them in the post-Spurrier years). Playing in Tokyo had no bearing on the final score, I assure you.

(02-16-2024 05:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-16-2024 02:26 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  When Clemson beat Wake Forest 82-0 in Tokyo in the early 80's that left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

That may be true, but it's the wrong takeaway. I remember that game. Clemson was national contender good, while Wake Forest was one of the worst FBS teams I'd ever seen (until Duke stole that title from them in the post-Spurrier years). Playing in Tokyo had no bearing on the final score, I assure you.

I remember the game as well, I also know the ACC office did not like the game being played in Japan. It does not have to make sense, but for some it was gauche.

(02-16-2024 06:45 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  

(02-16-2024 05:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-16-2024 02:26 PM)SouthernConfBoy Wrote:  When Clemson beat Wake Forest 82-0 in Tokyo in the early 80's that left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

That may be true, but it's the wrong takeaway. I remember that game. Clemson was national contender good, while Wake Forest was one of the worst FBS teams I'd ever seen (until Duke stole that title from them in the post-Spurrier years). Playing in Tokyo had no bearing on the final score, I assure you.

I remember the game as well, I also know the ACC office did not like the game being played in Japan. It does not have to make sense, but for some it was gauche.

...and yet now the ACC is promoting the heck out of FSU vs GT in Ireland! I guess that Tokyo game was just ahead of its time.