(02-27-2024 09:35 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 08:42 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 07:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think Florida St, Miami, and ND would be a suitable addition to make Florida St happy. Maybe UVA, UNC, and GT to compliment and function as a bridge.

Yes, but I'd be interested in knowing who would be FSU's annual opponents. If ND joins the B1G and FSU plays them once in 8 years, then it's not a big deal for FSU.

Miami?

I thought that was a given, FSU only get’s 1?

(02-27-2024 10:04 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 09:35 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 08:42 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 07:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think Florida St, Miami, and ND would be a suitable addition to make Florida St happy. Maybe UVA, UNC, and GT to compliment and function as a bridge.

Yes, but I'd be interested in knowing who would be FSU's annual opponents. If ND joins the B1G and FSU plays them once in 8 years, then it's not a big deal for FSU.

Miami?

I thought that was a given, FSU only get’s 1?

PSU has zero, which I feel a lot of their fans like this? It's more of an independent type arrangement.

Flex schedule, currently, allows teams to play everyone quite quickly. How that looks IF more teams are added? I'm not sure, but the conference loves conference games and playing everyone within a 4 year cycle, so I'm sure they would try to accommodate this.

If, big if, Notre Dame joined with FSU, I could see that being an annual game for the pair. I think it could be a wonderful rivalry game!?! Miami may be a game too that ND would require be annually. They have a little more history.

Of course, all just fan forum conversation and speculation.

(02-28-2024 08:20 AM)cubucks Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 10:04 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 09:35 PM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 08:42 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 07:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think Florida St, Miami, and ND would be a suitable addition to make Florida St happy. Maybe UVA, UNC, and GT to compliment and function as a bridge.

Yes, but I'd be interested in knowing who would be FSU's annual opponents. If ND joins the B1G and FSU plays them once in 8 years, then it's not a big deal for FSU.

Miami?

I thought that was a given, FSU only get’s 1?

PSU has zero, which I feel a lot of their fans like this? It's more of an independent type arrangement.

Flex schedule, currently, allows teams to play everyone quite quickly. How that looks IF more teams are added? I'm not sure, but the conference loves conference games and playing everyone within a 4 year cycle, so I'm sure they would try to accommodate this.

If, big if, Notre Dame joined with FSU, I could see that being an annual game for the pair. I think it could be a wonderful rivalry game!?! Miami may be a game too that ND would require be annually. They have a little more history.

Of course, all just fan forum conversation and speculation.

This has been a great thread everyone. Cubucks just raised a great question about scheduling and expansion, and one I’ve been pondering for a while now. I am very intrigued by the BIG’s Flex-Protect model but curious what happens if the BIG adds several more high profile teams.

FSU could certainly have Miami and/or Penn State as a protect rival in this scenario. ND adds a wrinkle though. Surely they would want to protect USC, right? Would they also want Stanford if they are admitted? The league (and Fox/NBC/CBS) would want to see ND play Michigan, OSU, Penn State, Miami and Florida State too.

Will be interesting to see how this shakes out, if any further expansion takes place.

Personally, FSU should be architecting itself to make it suitable for the BIG, not the other way around. If FSU can’t meet BIG expansion requirements, whatever they are, then the BIG will always have other suitable options.

(02-27-2024 08:42 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  

(02-27-2024 07:58 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think Florida St, Miami, and ND would be a suitable addition to make Florida St happy. Maybe UVA, UNC, and GT to compliment and function as a bridge.

Yes, but I'd be interested in knowing who would be FSU's annual opponents. If ND joins the B1G and FSU plays them once in 8 years, then it's not a big deal for FSU.

Why focus on a single opponent?
Look at all that are appealing: Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Oregon, USC, Washington,Iowa, and Michigan State. Plus whomever would tag along. Maybe Miami, GT, and ND?

If that isn't what FSU is looking for then the SEC is your answer.
These are all great too: Alabama, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Auburn, Texas, Oklahoma, and so on.

If possible, I'd like to see UM and PSU as definite annuals. If GT was brought in and the B1G only allowed 2 annuals, it would be a difficult decision, but UM and GT would make the most sense, but it may be a wasted opportunity to get another mega matchup of FSU vs PSU.

ND does not mean that much to me, I'm fine with them being Indy, but it is the white whale everybody is chasing.

(02-28-2024 10:09 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Personally, FSU should be architecting itself to make it suitable for the BIG, not the other way around. If FSU can’t meet BIG expansion requirements, whatever they are, then the BIG will always have other suitable options.

They are the best non P2 option with the largest potential demographic audience being the #2 school in Florida. Theoretically California Berkeley is the #1/#2 public in California but the Big Ten already has UCLA. The Big Ten could also go for Texas Tech or Houston to get into Texas but they would seem to get a lower share of Texas behind UT & A&M. Miami is a private school.

(02-28-2024 05:27 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  If possible, I'd like to see UM and PSU as definite annuals. If GT was brought in and the B1G only allowed 2 annuals, it would be a difficult decision, but UM and GT would make the most sense, but it may be a wasted opportunity to get another mega matchup of FSU vs PSU.

ND does not mean that much to me, I'm fine with them being Indy, but it is the white whale everybody is chasing.

I’m pretty sure they let Iowa have 3. So it’s anywhere from 0-3.

If the Big 10 admitted FSU, Miami, and ND, I’d expect to see the following protected:

ND: USC
FSU: Miami
Miami: FSU

opponents flexed occasionally:

ND: Miami, Michigan
FSU: —
Miami: ND, Penn St

I think the beauty of the Big 10 model is you see everyone fairly regularly, maybe 3x in 7 years or something. FSU would be betting a healthy rotation of Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St, ND, USC, Washington, Oregon, Wisconsin, etc. These should all be exciting games for both fan bases involved.

(03-01-2024 11:05 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 10:09 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Personally, FSU should be architecting itself to make it suitable for the BIG, not the other way around. If FSU can’t meet BIG expansion requirements, whatever they are, then the BIG will always have other suitable options.

They are the best non P2 option with the largest potential demographic audience being the #2 school in Florida. Theoretically California Berkeley is the #1/#2 public in California but the Big Ten already has UCLA. The Big Ten could also go for Texas Tech or Houston to get into Texas but they would seem to get a lower share of Texas behind UT & A&M. Miami is a private school.

Well that depends on what the perimeters are. FSU is the biggest football program available in one of the biggest states not yet in the BIG footprint. It has fan attendance, revenue and budget that are all above the BIG average. Those are all good thins. However, there are some big negatives as well. The biggest is that FSU is NOT a cultural fit for this conference. It is not AAU. It is on the wrong end of the state, far away from the recruiting hotbeds and large BIG alumni populations. I really think that like when aTm jumped ship to the SEC, neither the school, nor the BIG has an interest in the other.

Cal? come on why even mention it? With USC/UCLA in the fold, we don't need any other California schools. Having just one school in a state brings cable carriage fees for the whole state. Neither Cal nor Stanford will bring any streaming fans, or provide additional revenue even close to the conference average. As for Tech or Houston, you think that the BIG passed on aTm and UT, but will consider those two? They would have to agree to a SMU type deal to even get a campus visit.

Miami is a private and has a smaller alumni base. That being said, there seems to be plenty of $$ flowing into the university and its sports programs. It is an AAU, is located on the right end of the state and would bring plenty of t-shirt fans for streaming. That makes it more valuable than its size.

(03-02-2024 01:14 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 11:05 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(02-28-2024 10:09 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Personally, FSU should be architecting itself to make it suitable for the BIG, not the other way around. If FSU can’t meet BIG expansion requirements, whatever they are, then the BIG will always have other suitable options.

They are the best non P2 option with the largest potential demographic audience being the #2 school in Florida. Theoretically California Berkeley is the #1/#2 public in California but the Big Ten already has UCLA. The Big Ten could also go for Texas Tech or Houston to get into Texas but they would seem to get a lower share of Texas behind UT & A&M. Miami is a private school.

Well that depends on what the perimeters are. FSU is the biggest football program available in one of the biggest states not yet in the BIG footprint. It has fan attendance, revenue and budget that are all above the BIG average. Those are all good thins. However, there are some big negatives as well. The biggest is that FSU is NOT a cultural fit for this conference. It is not AAU. It is on the wrong end of the state, far away from the recruiting hotbeds and large BIG alumni populations. I really think that like when aTm jumped ship to the SEC, neither the school, nor the BIG has an interest in the other.

Cal? come on why even mention it? With USC/UCLA in the fold, we don't need any other California schools. Having just one school in a state brings cable carriage fees for the whole state. Neither Cal nor Stanford will bring any streaming fans, or provide additional revenue even close to the conference average. As for Tech or Houston, you think that the BIG passed on aTm and UT, but will consider those two? They would have to agree to a SMU type deal to even get a campus visit.

Miami is a private and has a smaller alumni base. That being said, there seems to be plenty of $$ flowing into the university and its sports programs. It is an AAU, is located on the right end of the state and would bring plenty of t-shirt fans for streaming. That makes it more valuable than its size.

The institutional "fit" is definitely a question mark.

And your point about recruiting is well-made.

If it's a question between Florida State and Miami, well first I'd go for both as a package but I'd have to believe FSU first. They may be in the wrong part of the state but they are still a state university and draw from throughout the state. If the criteria were "right part of the state", Pittsburgh or Temple would be Pennsylvania's Big Ten school right now.

I understand the argument about FSU being in the "wrong" part of Florida, but a few things:
Miami Florida will always be Miami Florida, but imo FSU gives better penetration into both Florida and Georgia.
FSU is larger than Miami.
FSU has shown the ability to rebound from bad times, Miami...we are still waiting to see that.

I'm all for one or both in the B1G, but I admit I'm also cautious. I remember when Miami joined the ACC. All the stories of how the FSU/Miami combo was going to "save" ACC football and all the benefits the combo gave the conference. Yeah, that never happened. The B1G isn't the ACC, but I'm still cautious of the past repeating itself lol.

(03-02-2024 11:38 AM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  I understand the argument about FSU being in the "wrong" part of Florida, but a few things:
Miami Florida will always be Miami Florida, but imo FSU gives better penetration into both Florida and Georgia.
FSU is larger than Miami.
FSU has shown the ability to rebound from bad times, Miami...we are still waiting to see that.

I'm all for one or both in the B1G, but I admit I'm also cautious. I remember when Miami joined the ACC. All the stories of how the FSU/Miami combo was going to "save" ACC football and all the benefits the combo gave the conference. Yeah, that never happened. The B1G isn't the ACC, but I'm still cautious of the past repeating itself lol.

We (the Big Ten) don't need FSU/Miami to save us, we have the Big Three to carry us plus the Pacific Four as a bonus. In terms of football, anything they give us is also a bonus. I've often referred the phrase "another Nebraska" as to we don't want to take a school that was good and isn't good anymore. Even if Florida State and Miami aren't as good as long as they have passionate fans and can bring the Big Ten into Florida it benefits us more than Nebraska, Washington, or Oregon if they're mediocre.

I mean in an ideal world the Big Ten would add UF but they're not leaving that other conference.

The Tallahassee area and 2 hrs each direction is a good football recruiting area. Not as good as Miami’s though, but few other places compare. If the B1G wants in the deep south then FSU is squarely in it. GT gets you in it even more, Miami is its own thing. If the B1G got all 3 then they can full stop and FSU would be very satisfied.

(03-02-2024 07:23 AM)schmolik Wrote:  If it's a question between Florida State and Miami, well first I'd go for both as a package but I'd have to believe FSU first. They may be in the wrong part of the state but they are still a state university and draw from throughout the state. If the criteria were "right part of the state", Pittsburgh or Temple would be Pennsylvania's Big Ten school right now.

You are being delusional. PSU has ruled the state for easily 50 years and pulled in the best recruits from Md, NJ and NY. Pitt’s glory days wained in the 50’s and 60’s, with a bought championship in 76 by having 120+ guys on scholarship. Note NCAA changed rules after season to prevent a repeat. FSU can not make that claim about Fla. There were many years in 90’s and 2000’s when Miami was both top dog in Fla and top dog in the nation.

(03-02-2024 11:38 AM)ENCterrapin Wrote:  I understand the argument about FSU being in the "wrong" part of Florida, but a few things:
Miami Florida will always be Miami Florida, but imo FSU gives better penetration into both Florida and Georgia.
FSU is larger than Miami.
FSU has shown the ability to rebound from bad times, Miami...we are still waiting to see that.

I'm all for one or both in the B1G, but I admit I'm also cautious. I remember when Miami joined the ACC. All the stories of how the FSU/Miami combo was going to "save" ACC football and all the benefits the combo gave the conference. Yeah, that never happened. The B1G isn't the ACC, but I'm still cautious of the past repeating itself lol.

I agree and that is why I think there is a distinct possibility that neither school gets a BIG invite. There is a strong possibility that all of the Southern schools worth taking end up in the SEC. In that case if ND does not join, I think the BIG raids the B12 for Kansas and 3 of the C4 schools and then does add Calford to create a Pacific division.

(03-02-2024 12:38 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  The Tallahassee area and 2 hrs each direction is a good football recruiting area. Not as good as Miami’s though, but few other places compare. If the B1G wants in the deep south then FSU is squarely in it. GT gets you in it even more, Miami is its own thing. If the B1G got all 3 then they can full stop and FSU would be very satisfied.

Maybe you are talking geography here. There are so many Northern transplants in the Atlanta area it hasn’t been the Deep South in long time. The same is true for Charolette, Nashville and Austin. I’ve been on college tours with my kids to Tulane, Vandy, Elon, Emory, Richmond, Coastal; these are not Southern schools. They are Northern schools located in the South. The BIG SEC schools haven’t gotten there yet, but the only reason UVa and UNC aren’t in the same boat is because they have quotas on the number of out of state students they are allowed to take.

(03-02-2024 01:10 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(03-02-2024 12:38 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  The Tallahassee area and 2 hrs each direction is a good football recruiting area. Not as good as Miami’s though, but few other places compare. If the B1G wants in the deep south then FSU is squarely in it. GT gets you in it even more, Miami is its own thing. If the B1G got all 3 then they can full stop and FSU would be very satisfied.

Maybe you are talking geography here. There are so many Northern transplants in the Atlanta area it hasn’t been the Deep South in long time. The same is true for Charolette, Nashville and Austin. I’ve been on college tours with my kids to Tulane, Vandy, Elon, Emory, Richmond, Coastal; these are not Southern schools. They are Northern schools located in the South. The BIG SEC schools haven’t gotten there yet, but the only reason UVa and UNC aren’t in the same boat is because they have quotas on the number of out of state students they are allowed to take.

If we are talking deep south fans and recruiting territory, Atlanta is the south's capitol. One of the few places that can could compare to Miami as far as quality of recruits. Georgia and Florida are the 2 best recruiting states in the south-east.

GT get's a lot of international students and students from out of state, more than half are male.