Smashing! He should get a huge applause or standing O when introduced at the next game.

3775 gets it. If Jordain and Ashton are the 7-8 guys off the bench next year, then fine. If those 2 are starters, it’ll be a long season and probably much more aggravating than this one has been.

(03-01-2024 04:31 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 04:22 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 01:23 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 01:21 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 12:59 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  Jourdain's advanced stats are eye-popping.
-highest eFG% on the team
-10th in the conference in Off reb Rate
-7th in the conference in Block Rate
-3rd lowest TO% in the rotation
-3rd in Win Shares
-highest offensive rating
-best 3pt% on the team

Not the whole story though.
-Worst free throw shooter on the team on alot of attempts
-Defensive rebound rate is lower than Quinerly in Top 100 games (awful)
-Shoots 27% from 3 against Top 100 competition
-His offense has fallen off a cliff once he hit conference play and is nearly negative efficiency
-Low usage, can't create his own shot
-Doesn't draw fouls on offense
-Pretty high turnover rate coupled with a bad assist rate. Started turning it over a ton in conference play.

Once we hit conference play, he has basically become Temple Jourdain. Good role player, not a starter.

In fairness the entire team has **** the bed in conference play.

Exactly...

The expectation that every player should be a stud is unrealistic. Jourdain is a fantastic role player. He has flaws because he is a college level player, not a pro level player. But he does a lot of stuff that other players do not want to do and plays with a lot of effort. I have no doubt Penny is very glad to have him back next year as we should be.

That is the problem. He isn't being used as a role player this year and is getting starter minutes. Not having a rebounder at the 4 has clearly been detrimental to the team. If he wants to come back in a role player role thats great for everyone, but we can't afford to continue giving up a 40% offensive rebound rate because our 4 doesn't know how to rebound.

Who said starters can't be role players? You absolutely need a few guys high in the rotation who are solid role players. He needs to work on rebounding - but he is not the sole reason we've been bad with allowing offensive rebounds. Not even close.

(03-01-2024 04:31 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 04:22 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 01:23 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 01:21 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 12:59 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  Jourdain's advanced stats are eye-popping.
-highest eFG% on the team
-10th in the conference in Off reb Rate
-7th in the conference in Block Rate
-3rd lowest TO% in the rotation
-3rd in Win Shares
-highest offensive rating
-best 3pt% on the team

Not the whole story though.
-Worst free throw shooter on the team on alot of attempts
-Defensive rebound rate is lower than Quinerly in Top 100 games (awful)
-Shoots 27% from 3 against Top 100 competition
-His offense has fallen off a cliff once he hit conference play and is nearly negative efficiency
-Low usage, can't create his own shot
-Doesn't draw fouls on offense
-Pretty high turnover rate coupled with a bad assist rate. Started turning it over a ton in conference play.

Once we hit conference play, he has basically become Temple Jourdain. Good role player, not a starter.

In fairness the entire team has **** the bed in conference play.

Exactly...

The expectation that every player should be a stud is unrealistic. Jourdain is a fantastic role player. He has flaws because he is a college level player, not a pro level player. But he does a lot of stuff that other players do not want to do and plays with a lot of effort. I have no doubt Penny is very glad to have him back next year as we should be.

That is the problem. He isn't being used as a role player this year and is getting starter minutes. Not having a rebounder at the 4 has clearly been detrimental to the team. If he wants to come back in a role player role thats great for everyone, but we can't afford to continue giving up a 40% offensive rebound rate because our 4 doesn't know how to rebound.

Again, not all starters are stars... There are "starters" that are just role players. He is 4th on the team in rebounding. Jones is our leading rebounder, then Tomlin at 5.5, Maclo at 5 and Jourdain at 4, so his rebounding is not as awful as you are making it out to be.

Regardless, rebounding has been an issue under every single team Penny has coached, it is not specific to this team and certainly not specific to Jourdain. Remember, we switch everything and scramble a lot on defense so our bigs are not just sitting under the rim, they are consistently out on the perimeter guarding guards or closing out on shooters, which means they are consistently not in position to rebound. That is simply Penny's defensive scheme.

I just went back and looked. We consistently have one player in the 7-8 rebound/game range, then the rest of our bigs in the 4.0-5.5 range, so realistically, he is rebounding pretty much exactly where he should have been expected to be at, perhaps 0.5/game more that is really about it.

He can be knocked for inconsistency but I'm excited to see someone who can make big plays with another year of development.

(03-01-2024 06:48 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 04:31 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 04:22 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 01:23 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 01:21 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Not the whole story though.
-Worst free throw shooter on the team on alot of attempts
-Defensive rebound rate is lower than Quinerly in Top 100 games (awful)
-Shoots 27% from 3 against Top 100 competition
-His offense has fallen off a cliff once he hit conference play and is nearly negative efficiency
-Low usage, can't create his own shot
-Doesn't draw fouls on offense
-Pretty high turnover rate coupled with a bad assist rate. Started turning it over a ton in conference play.

Once we hit conference play, he has basically become Temple Jourdain. Good role player, not a starter.

In fairness the entire team has **** the bed in conference play.

Exactly...

The expectation that every player should be a stud is unrealistic. Jourdain is a fantastic role player. He has flaws because he is a college level player, not a pro level player. But he does a lot of stuff that other players do not want to do and plays with a lot of effort. I have no doubt Penny is very glad to have him back next year as we should be.

That is the problem. He isn't being used as a role player this year and is getting starter minutes. Not having a rebounder at the 4 has clearly been detrimental to the team. If he wants to come back in a role player role thats great for everyone, but we can't afford to continue giving up a 40% offensive rebound rate because our 4 doesn't know how to rebound.

Again, not all starters are stars... There are "starters" that are just role players. He is 4th on the team in rebounding. Jones is our leading rebounder, then Tomlin at 5.5, Maclo at 5 and Jourdain at 4, so his rebounding is not as awful as you are making it out to be.

Regardless, rebounding has been an issue under every single team Penny has coached, it is not specific to this team and certainly not specific to Jourdain. Remember, we switch everything and scramble a lot on defense so our bigs are not just sitting under the rim, they are consistently out on the perimeter guarding guards or closing out on shooters, which means they are consistently not in position to rebound. That is simply Penny's defensive scheme.

I just went back and looked. We consistently have one player in the 7-8 rebound/game range, then the rest of our bigs in the 4.0-5.5 range, so realistically, he is rebounding pretty much exactly where he should have been expected to be at, perhaps 0.5/game more that is really about it.

No, he truly is a terrible defensive rebounder for a PF and college player in general. He grabbed 3 defensive rebounds total in 94 minutes during the 4 game stretch from Temple to SMU. All 4 of those teams offensive rebounded us into oblivion. In the last 10 games, he has only had 1 game with more than 3 defensive rebounds. Jones outrebounded him (by a ton) in the 9 of the last 10 games. Quinerly (!!!) has outrebounded him in 7 of the last 10 games. That is a stat that will lose you alot of games.

(03-01-2024 12:19 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 11:52 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 11:04 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 10:52 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-01-2024 10:14 AM)Titans3775 Wrote:  I agree with you. If Penny would use him properly as a bench role player, I would feel way more excited about him coming back. He can't guard the 4 spot and his offense is open layups/3s (things that aren't available against good teams). A starting lineup with Jourdain and Ashton in it next year should scare anyone. If they don't get recruited over, we will be lucky to sniff the bubble.

Well you gotta start someone. Don’t see anyone else to play. He had good games the last 2. Malcolm being out has helped them

He is just a low skill player that gets by on effort. He can't create his own shot, his defense is entirely predicated on whether he can block it, and he is a really really bad rebounder for a 4. There is nothing wrong with that, but we should be able to do better than that for a starter next year. He is everything you could want from a 6th or 7th man, but we can't go another season giving up a 40% offensive rebound rate.

I’d hope Penny recruits over both, but ultimately it doesn’t matter. He’s already showed he’ll play Ashton over a better player (Pierre) this season. I can only imagine how much run AH gets next season. He is the worst “great shooter” I’ve ever seen.

Ashton has the same issue Jayden has...he doesn't think fast enough at this level. He probably is a great shooter but his decision making time is way too slow at this level. By the time he's decided to shoot his advantage is usually gone unless he is just completely wide open.

you are comparing a freshman with a 6th year player.

He is 4th on the team in PER.
1st on the team in eFG%.
5th of rotation players in TRB%.
2nd on the team in Block%.
3rd on the team in Win Shares.
4th on the team in +/-.

Glad to have him back.

Jourdain is actually a decent player if he would be more motivated.. He is finally showing more willingness to go after rebounds..