Although he doesn't quite come out and say it, Blade sports columnist David Briggs seems to think the MAC would be smart to move its tournament back to Toledo:

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/colle...0240313109

Excerpts:

David Briggs Wrote:The conference moved over from Toledo to Cleveland but never on up, at least on the men’s side, where the spark of excitement that came with relocating its showcase event to an NBA arena failed to elevate the league
as anticipated and ultimately faded entirely.

Consider: The final MAC tournament in Toledo brought in a total of 29,224 fans to a bandbox convention center. The past two tourneys at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse (capacity: 19,432) averaged a total 27,053 spectators.

Things are … not great.

And...

David Briggs Wrote:The MAC enjoyed an early jolt of excitement in Cleveland, bringing in as many as 55,020 fans for the tourney in 2002. But, alas, the buzz didn’t last. While the tournament is still here — and will remain in Cleveland
through at least 2030 — it’s fair to say it long ago lost its momentum, same
as the league. Miami in 1999 remains the last men’s team to earn an at-large invite to the dance.

Briggs also seems to weirdly link the MAC's strength in basketball 25 years ago to when it played the tournament in Toledo. He even uncritically quotes former acting MAC commissioner Ron Fournier as suggesting that the MAC's ability to earn national television coverage for football has somehow hurt basketball.

David Briggs Wrote:Fournier looks back at the MAC’s electrifying time in Toledo and can’t help but wonder what might have been.

“[The league] had a chance without investing a lot of money to really make basketball special,” he said. “I don't want to disparage anybody, but that was just not ... whatever they were thinking with football on Tuesdays and Thursdays, it was crazy. They were consumed with football and television. ... You only get so many eggs. You've got to put your eggs where you're going to get the most omelette. They were trying to compete with the Big Ten and the only way they could compete with the Big Ten on a limited basis was with basketball. They could do it. They were right there.”

This all seems like malarkey to me. Cleveland is a great site for the MAC tournament. Think about how many more casual fans are around and how much more there is to do in downtown Cleveland.

I also don't see how the MAC's ability to earn national television coverage for football hurts basketball. It's a weird point of view to me, but Briggs really seems to have it in for MAC football.

I’ve enjoyed the tournament in Cleveland and the pro atmosphere it provides. That being said I do think a tournament hosted at the Huntington Center in Toledo would provide a good atmosphere as well. I would guess the arena could hold around 9,000 for basketball.

(03-15-2024 04:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Although he doesn't quite come out and say it, Blade sports columnist David Briggs seems to think the MAC would be smart to move its tournament back to Toledo:

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/colle...0240313109

Excerpts:

David Briggs Wrote:The conference moved over from Toledo to Cleveland but never on up, at least on the men’s side, where the spark of excitement that came with relocating its showcase event to an NBA arena failed to elevate the league
as anticipated and ultimately faded entirely.

Consider: The final MAC tournament in Toledo brought in a total of 29,224 fans to a bandbox convention center. The past two tourneys at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse (capacity: 19,432) averaged a total 27,053 spectators.

Things are … not great.

And...

David Briggs Wrote:The MAC enjoyed an early jolt of excitement in Cleveland, bringing in as many as 55,020 fans for the tourney in 2002. But, alas, the buzz didn’t last. While the tournament is still here — and will remain in Cleveland
through at least 2030 — it’s fair to say it long ago lost its momentum, same
as the league. Miami in 1999 remains the last men’s team to earn an at-large invite to the dance.

Briggs also seems to weirdly link the MAC's strength in basketball 25 years ago to when it played the tournament in Toledo. He even uncritically quotes former acting MAC commissioner Ron Fournier as suggesting that the MAC's ability to earn national television coverage for football has somehow hurt basketball.

David Briggs Wrote:Fournier looks back at the MAC’s electrifying time in Toledo and can’t help but wonder what might have been.

“[The league] had a chance without investing a lot of money to really make basketball special,” he said. “I don't want to disparage anybody, but that was just not ... whatever they were thinking with football on Tuesdays and Thursdays, it was crazy. They were consumed with football and television. ... You only get so many eggs. You've got to put your eggs where you're going to get the most omelette. They were trying to compete with the Big Ten and the only way they could compete with the Big Ten on a limited basis was with basketball. They could do it. They were right there.”

This all seems like malarkey to me. Cleveland is a great site for the MAC tournament. Think about how many more casual fans are around and how much more there is to do in downtown Cleveland.

I also don't see how the MAC's ability to earn national television coverage for football hurts basketball. It's a weird point of view to me, but Briggs really seems to have it in for MAC football.

I remember the last MAC Tournament game played in Toledo, a 50-49 victory by Kent State over Miami in a glorified hotel ballroom, with Wally Sczerbiak playing on a bum knee trying not to slip on the floor.

I think there were 10 people there. Maybe 20.

As stated in another thread, the reason Cleveland is perfect for the MAC Tournament is because it is an alumni event in a city where MAC alumni from at least half the conference abound. MAC students don't travel for the MAC Tournament, and that won't change no matter where it is. Yes, Huntington would be great for Toledo/BG/EMU fans, not so great for everybody else.

BRIGGS WROTE, "Consider: The final MAC tournament in Toledo brought in a total of 29,224 fans to a bandbox convention center. The past two tourneys at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse (capacity: 19,432) averaged a total 27,053 spectators."

Bogus numbers ..... there is a big difference between a TOTAL of 29,224 fans and an AVERAGE of 27,053 fans.

What a joke, there's no comparison between playing in an NBA venue in Cleveland versus Toledo or any other city, such as Grand Rapids' Van Andel Arena.

Tomorrow Kent State v Akron in Cleveland. Terrific!

(03-15-2024 07:50 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 04:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  Although he doesn't quite come out and say it, Blade sports columnist David Briggs seems to think the MAC would be smart to move its tournament back to Toledo:

https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/colle...0240313109

Excerpts:

David Briggs Wrote:The conference moved over from Toledo to Cleveland but never on up, at least on the men’s side, where the spark of excitement that came with relocating its showcase event to an NBA arena failed to elevate the league
as anticipated and ultimately faded entirely.

Consider: The final MAC tournament in Toledo brought in a total of 29,224 fans to a bandbox convention center. The past two tourneys at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse (capacity: 19,432) averaged a total 27,053 spectators.

Things are … not great.

And...

David Briggs Wrote:The MAC enjoyed an early jolt of excitement in Cleveland, bringing in as many as 55,020 fans for the tourney in 2002. But, alas, the buzz didn’t last. While the tournament is still here — and will remain in Cleveland
through at least 2030 — it’s fair to say it long ago lost its momentum, same
as the league. Miami in 1999 remains the last men’s team to earn an at-large invite to the dance.

Briggs also seems to weirdly link the MAC's strength in basketball 25 years ago to when it played the tournament in Toledo. He even uncritically quotes former acting MAC commissioner Ron Fournier as suggesting that the MAC's ability to earn national television coverage for football has somehow hurt basketball.

David Briggs Wrote:Fournier looks back at the MAC’s electrifying time in Toledo and can’t help but wonder what might have been.

“[The league] had a chance without investing a lot of money to really make basketball special,” he said. “I don't want to disparage anybody, but that was just not ... whatever they were thinking with football on Tuesdays and Thursdays, it was crazy. They were consumed with football and television. ... You only get so many eggs. You've got to put your eggs where you're going to get the most omelette. They were trying to compete with the Big Ten and the only way they could compete with the Big Ten on a limited basis was with basketball. They could do it. They were right there.”

This all seems like malarkey to me. Cleveland is a great site for the MAC tournament. Think about how many more casual fans are around and how much more there is to do in downtown Cleveland.

I also don't see how the MAC's ability to earn national television coverage for football hurts basketball. It's a weird point of view to me, but Briggs really seems to have it in for MAC football.

I remember the last MAC Tournament game played in Toledo, a 50-49 victory by Kent State over Miami in a glorified hotel ballroom, with Wally Sczerbiak playing on a bum knee trying not to slip on the floor.

I think there were 10 people there. Maybe 20.

As stated in another thread, the reason Cleveland is perfect for the MAC Tournament is because it is an alumni event in a city where MAC alumni from at least half the conference abound. MAC students don't travel for the MAC Tournament, and that won't change no matter where it is. Yes, Huntington would be great for Toledo/BG/EMU fans, not so great for everybody else.

BRIGGS WROTE, "Consider: The final MAC tournament in Toledo brought in a total of 29,224 fans to a bandbox convention center. The past two tourneys at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse (capacity: 19,432) averaged a total 27,053 spectators."

Bogus numbers ..... there is a big difference between a TOTAL of 29,224 fans and an AVERAGE of 27,053 fans.

I was at that final MAC tourney men’s final in ‘99 at Toledo’s Sea Gate Center. There were no more than 4,000 people there. In Cleveland the final typically averages double that.

Toledo’s Huntington Center is a great place to play the games but there is not much else downtown…not enough hotel rooms or restaurants.

This sounds like sour grapes from someone who is upset that his team can't win in Cleveland. I don't know why he wants it moved to Toledo; the Rockets weren't able to win the tournament when it was there either!

I don't agree with the tournament site argument. Cleveland is pretty good. Not special, but that's more on the league.

I do agree with the argument that 2 decades ago the league made a decision to amp up football at a time when MAC basketball was very strong. Investing a bit more in hoops would have kept the MAC at the level of its peer conferences (the Valley and A10) and we would generally be a 2 bid league.

Of course, Briggs like most folks misses that MAC country is where several socio-political forces also impacted the mid sized universities. Disinvestment in mid sized cities coupled with corporate mergers meant that a lot of the wealth in cities like Toledo, Kalamazoo, Akron left while the poor got poorer. The MAC region has been at the core of the charter school movement which has hurt urban public education and replaced many schools that had robust youth sports with charter schools that don't have teams or have less-leading to a decline in kids playing team sports and becoming recruits or even bigger fans. Thirdly, MAC area state legislatures have generally cut budgets for the lower profile state universities over the past generation. Add to that Ohio (the core of MAC country) becoming the rare US state to lose population due to people leaving and few immigrants entering.

It's not just the MAC; 20 years ago Cleveland St and Detroit were hoops powers. UIC was good, Depaul was legit, Valpo was good, UW-Milwaukee was good, UW-Green Bay good, S. Illinois and Illinois St really good, the Detroit and Chicago public school leagues had good D1 talent barely on recruiting radars cuz there were blue chip kids on the same court getting more attention. It was just a more dynamic basketball region 20-30 years ago.

Football is king in college athletics. Nothing wrong with that, it's the only reason the MAC has a TV contract with ESPN. But looking at the box score the Ohio-Akron game had nearly 8k in attendance. That's pretty good for a mid-major conference that was pretty down this season. I was barely paying attention to AAC (think it was UAB-Wichita) and Big West (Hawaii-UC Davis) games last night and the arenas were so empty.

I think our football championship game in an NFL stadium in Detroit and our basketball championship game in an NBA arena in Cleveland are both big time events and superior to what other mid majors have.

Someone is just salty that Toledo is to MAC basketball what OU is to MAC football. Cleveland is a perfect venue even if Akron/Kent weren’t regulars to make it far.

(03-15-2024 09:42 PM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  This sounds like sour grapes from someone who is upset that his team can't win in Cleveland. I don't know why he wants it moved to Toledo; the Rockets weren't able to win the tournament when it was there either!

(03-16-2024 09:31 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Someone is just salty that Toledo is to MAC basketball what OU is to MAC football. Cleveland is a perfect venue even if Akron/Kent weren’t regulars to make it far.

LOLz. You really think a sports writer wants it moved to Toledo because Toledo can't win in Cleveland??? Give me some of what you're smoking.

(03-15-2024 08:56 PM)pvk75 Wrote:  Tomorrow Kent State v Akron in Cleveland. Terrific!

Hope it's a close game tonight.

(03-15-2024 05:02 PM)OSUFALCON Wrote:  I’ve enjoyed the tournament in Cleveland and the pro atmosphere it provides. That being said I do think a tournament hosted at the Huntington Center in Toledo would provide a good atmosphere as well. I would guess the arena could hold around 9,000 for basketball.

I could see the logic of using a smaller building, and Toledo is centrally located. But his criticism of Cleveland really felt off the mark to me. I don't know anyone else complaining about the tournament's performance in Cleveland.

Also, the Cavaliers' arena seems to work pretty well even for smaller crowds. I attended a women's final there years ago and it felt noisy and good even though the upper deck wasn't in use at all.

(03-15-2024 07:50 PM)cleveland Wrote:  ... BRIGGS WROTE, "Consider: The final MAC tournament in Toledo brought in a total of 29,224 fans to a bandbox convention center. The past two tourneys at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse (capacity: 19,432) averaged a total 27,053 spectators."

Bogus numbers ..... there is a big difference between a TOTAL of 29,224 fans and an AVERAGE of 27,053 fans.

It's an average of the last two totals.

Of course, it's still very deliberate cherry picking ... I just looked at the NCAA 2022/23 attendance numbers, and the total for the MAC 2023 tournament was 32,000 ... he seems to have settled on the average of 2022 and 2023 because attendance in 2022 was down, so taking the average of the last two tournaments supported his claim, and taking the most recent of both didn't.

And attendance at many evens are down over the same period ... the MAC total attendance was third among FBS conferences, better than the SBC and CUSA, despite both having more sessions, and the MAC average tournament attendance in 2023 was second best in FBS, 1,400 behind the MWC, ahead of the AAC, SBC and CUSA, and also ahead of the A-10, MVC and WCC.

Indeed, among all Division 1 conferences, it was the best average attendance single-bid conference tournament, trailing only the five digit averages of the 6 High Major conferences and the MWC.

It seems to me that the numbers say a sports reporter trying to explain the sorry current state of MAC basketball using the tournament location is looking under the wrong rock.

(03-16-2024 11:56 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 07:50 PM)cleveland Wrote:  ... BRIGGS WROTE, "Consider: The final MAC tournament in Toledo brought in a total of 29,224 fans to a bandbox convention center. The past two tourneys at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse (capacity: 19,432) averaged a total 27,053 spectators."

Bogus numbers ..... there is a big difference between a TOTAL of 29,224 fans and an AVERAGE of 27,053 fans.

It's an average of the last two totals.

Of course, it's still very deliberate cherry picking ... I just looked at the NCAA 2022/23 attendance numbers, and the total for the MAC 2023 tournament was 32,000 ... he seems to have settled on the average of 2022 and 2023 because attendance in 2022 was down, so taking the average of the last two tournaments supported his claim, and taking the most recent of both didn't.

And attendance at many evens are down over the same period ... the MAC total attendance was third among FBS conferences, better than the SBC and CUSA, despite both having more sessions, and the MAC average tournament attendance in 2023 was second best in FBS, 1,400 behind the MWC, ahead of the AAC, SBC and CUSA, and also ahead of the A-10, MVC and WCC.

Indeed, among all Division 1 conferences, it was the best average attendance single-bid conference tournament, trailing only the five digit averages of the 6 High Major conferences and the MWC.

It seems to me that the numbers say a sports reporter trying to explain the sorry current state of MAC basketball using the tournament location is looking under the wrong rock.

Great work, Bruce!

MAC tournament is great in Cleveland with the game venue, restaurants, bars, hotels and casino nearby. lots of fun. Rock & Roll hall of fame and science center for tourist attractions. A balanced league and wide open tournament every year makes for lots of excitement. Look at Kent State this year. A rough regular season, but they are playing in the title game. MAC did well with the draw this year gets Akron/Ohio in prime time on a Friday night and then Kent State/Akron in the final.

(03-15-2024 09:42 PM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  This sounds like sour grapes from someone who is upset that his team can't win in Cleveland. I don't know why he wants it moved to Toledo; the Rockets weren't able to win the tournament when it was there either!

This was my take too. Toledo likes to make excuses for why they can't win, but the reality is all teams that win have faced some sort of obstacle. Even Kent this year is without two of their starters. Toledo under Kowalczyk has been a soft team. Teams turn up the intensity come March. It's why you see the scrappy teams exceed expectation and the finesse ones underachieve.

(03-16-2024 12:52 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 09:42 PM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  This sounds like sour grapes from someone who is upset that his team can't win in Cleveland. I don't know why he wants it moved to Toledo; the Rockets weren't able to win the tournament when it was there either!

This was my take too. Toledo likes to make excuses for why they can't win, but the reality is all teams that win have faced some sort of obstacle. Even Kent this year is without two of their starters. Toledo under Kowalczyk has been a soft team. Teams turn up the intensity come March. It's why you see the scrappy teams exceed expectation and the finesse ones underachieve.

Yeah I don't think a generalization like that is accurate. Everyone I know personally understands that the reason we haven't won is what was cited above. It's a coach K issue that can be broken down further, but that's not the point here. Not saying he's a bad coach, but he hasn't proven he can do it.

(03-16-2024 11:36 AM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(03-15-2024 09:42 PM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  This sounds like sour grapes from someone who is upset that his team can't win in Cleveland. I don't know why he wants it moved to Toledo; the Rockets weren't able to win the tournament when it was there either!

(03-16-2024 09:31 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Someone is just salty that Toledo is to MAC basketball what OU is to MAC football. Cleveland is a perfect venue even if Akron/Kent weren’t regulars to make it far.

LOLz. You really think a sports writer wants it moved to Toledo because Toledo can't win in Cleveland??? Give me some of what you're smoking.

Why else would he b*tch and moan about his team not playing in his city?