(04-10-2024 04:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 07:41 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-08-2024 06:17 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Big 10 fans, don’t hesitate to build expansion theories that include ND. We’re nearing the end game where all the major brands will be concentrated in two conferences. Circumstances will make joining the P2 unavoidable if the Irish want to stay top tier.

The schedules will be fine. Just watch.

You probably won't like it.

Scheduled games with the SEC, Big 12, ACC might be signed, maybe even a scheduling deal with you guys, facilitated by NBC.(Yes, yes, I know. The Big Ten would NEVER do that)


ND will find a way to avoid joining the Big Ten....again.

Look, can you guys admit that ND has no desire at all to ever join the Big Ten ???

If it ever did, it wouldn't be a willing thing, more like sexual assault or a gun to its forehead? Against its will. Forced to join.

Why would the conference want a malcontent school that absolutely doesn't want to be part of it ?

I’m not convinced the schedules will be strong enough. You’re locked into 5 ACC + Navy + 2 G5 to get to 7 home games. That leaves 4 slots to schedule games to impress the pollsters. (You can’t very well count on the ACC to deliver any attractive games to the schedule after the Clemson/FSU exits).

When you look at what you’ve got scheduled so far, you’ve got a few seasons with one impressive game (Mich, Alabama, Florida. There’s some mid-level P2s on the schedule like Wisconsin and Mich St, but there’s a lot of low level P2s in there too (Indiana, Purdue, Arkansas) and and home and home with USF thrown in there.

Each of the big time P2 programs are going to al have at least 3 big time games in their 12-game schedule. I think ND is going to take heat for the weak schedule and it will hurt their playoff chances/seeding, especially if when they do make it, they perform poorly.

ND fans might not like it, but Big 10 membership would solve that SOS problem and keep their schedule national.

Here is the "massive impact" that FSU and Clemson leaving the ACC would cause to ND'Ss future schedules:


FSU @ ND 2024 - not gonna change
- Clem @ ND 2028
- FSU @ ND 2030


That is it. Oh the carnage ! ND MUST drop independence and join a conference immediately......

This is just another message board fantasy.



Here are ND's future opponents, by current conference:


2025: 1 open slot

6 ACC teams (Stanford)
2 B1G teams (USC)
2 SEC teams
Navy

2026: 0 open slots

7 ACC teams (FSU + Stanford)
4 B1G teams (USC)
Navy

2027: 3 open slots

5 ACC (Clemson + Stanford)
3 B1G (USC)
Navy

2028: 2 open slots

6 ACC (Clemson + Stanford)
2 B1G (USC)
1 SEC
Navy

2029: 2 open slots

6 ACC (Florida State + Stanford)
1 B1G (USC)
1 SEC
Navy
USF

2030: 3 open slots

6 ACC (Florida State + Stanford)
1 B1G (USC)
1 SEC
Navy

2031: 1 open slots

6 ACC (Stanford)
2 B1G (USC)
1 SEC
Navy
USF

Terry—you can’t just invent USC and Stanford games that don’t exist. Even if more Stanford games added, they will be replacements for Clemson/FSU games. Notre Dame has been pretty clear that they don’t want that yearly average any higher than 5. Which brings me to the impact of FSU/Clemson leaving the ACC—you’ve got a game against FSU or Clemson every year except ‘25, ‘31, and ‘35. Losing those games (and presumably replacing them with Stanford/Cal/SMU/4th Pro Rata add) is a significant hit to the ND SOS. You are going to have to bank on the other 4 games to bolster SOS. You also can’t treat every P2 the same—Michigan and Alabama are true high quality opponents. Purdue, Indiana, and Arkansas don’t command the same gravitas.

I am not impressed by a schedule of:

2 G5, Navy (also G5), 5 ACC (M2), 2 weak P2s, 1 middling P2, 1 good P2

Like it or not, ND has a schedule problem.

An out-of-the-blue idea:

South Florida and Utah

Why?

- AAU, Tampa Bay area, increased focus on football, no ACC GoR to contend with, international airport, new stadium on the way, doesn't have to immediately compete right at the start, can start off with deal lower than Oregon's. Sure, some egos would be hurt by taking a program from the G level but so what. USF has so much going for them and they'll gladly take a spot in an Upper Two conference, bypassing the Disney/SEC/plantation machine.

- Growing market in Salt Lake City, has made a commitment to football years ago, would jump at the chance, AAU, fills the hole in the third time zone, of the four corners has the best upside. They always want to be away from the BYU shadow. Question of how they get out of B12 GoR but would be the least disruptive move from that conference.

Let's face it: ESPN plays dirty so best to go around them.

(04-11-2024 04:47 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Terry—you can’t just invent USC and Stanford games that don’t exist. Even if more Stanford games added, they will be replacements for Clemson/FSU games. Notre Dame has been pretty clear that they don’t want that yearly average any higher than 5. Which brings me to the impact of FSU/Clemson leaving the ACC—you’ve got a game against FSU or Clemson every year except ‘25, ‘31, and ‘35. Losing those games (and presumably replacing them with Stanford/Cal/SMU/4th Pro Rata add) is a significant hit to the ND SOS. You are going to have to bank on the other 4 games to bolster SOS. You also can’t treat every P2 the same—Michigan and Alabama are true high quality opponents. Purdue, Indiana, and Arkansas don’t command the same gravitas.

I am not impressed by a schedule of:

2 G5, Navy (also G5), 5 ACC (M2), 2 weak P2s, 1 middling P2, 1 good P2

Like it or not, ND has a schedule problem.

Well, the guys responsible for ND's future football schedules don't agree with you:


"“Over the course of the next eight years [the length of the CFP contracts], the strength of schedule for programs around the country is going to be of an all-time importance in terms of making your way into the CFP,” Bevacqua said.

“We know that, and other major programs know that. And the thing is Notre Dame has never shied away from playing an incredibly competitive schedule. That’s a key for us going forward.”

Bevacqua’s go-to person for that is former Irish quarterback and current deputy athletic director for football Ron Powlus.

“We happen to have a football-scheduling savant in our midst,” Bevacqua said. “So, I can’t tell you how comforted I am by Ron’s breadth of knowledge. He and I have countless conversations about scheduling and the importance of scheduling.

“And the good news for us is that the majority of our games, if you look out through 2032 — we have some holes in the schedule — but we have a great foundation of what our schedule is going to look like over the course of the next decade. And we also have the flexibility to add compelling matchups both here and away.”

“What I will say about both of those series — the Notre Dame-Southern Cal game is one of the great matchups in the history of sports,” Bevacqua said. “It’s fundamentally important to us that we continue that rivalry, and we know that USC feels the same way.

“We also want to continue the Stanford rivalry. It’s had a great history of its own, and universities like Notre Dame and Stanford, we need to play each other. It's great to play each other. It’s important to play each other. Two top-ranked academic universities that also happen to put a real emphasis on athletics.

“Again, the exact times and locations and when that will happen, that could vary over the course of the next decade, but we start with the principle that we absolutely want to continue to play Southern Cal every year. We want to continue to play Stanford every year. And we don’t think they agree — we know they agree.”

https://notredame.rivals.com/news/diggin...e-bevacqua

Until they are actually announced, those games don’t exist and likely won’t. USC is going to be playing like 7 Midwestern schools a year—why do they need ND? They don’t. There’s clearly nothing solid in place for either of those west coast series. ND can talk all day about how the games are mutually important but all they are doing is putting words in the mouths of those administrators.

Declaring that your schedule is competitive doesn’t actually make it competitive. How many times has an ACC regular season opponent actually beaten ND since you half joined? Not many. Do you really expect that a post FSU/Clemson ACC is really going to produce competitive games for the Irish?

Terry - I've followed these forums for awhile and I believe you would be bored if most fans were like me and could care less for this ND / B1G courtship that so many are in love with - you'd miss it I think ha

In all honesty, the B1G doesn't need ND and ND doesn't need the B1G.

What the B1G does need is a "plan" to reinvigorate historically great brands that have "lost their way" back to their old selves. Looking at you USC and Nebraska football, and you Indiana and UCLA basketball. If that happens, the B1G will compete fine with the SEC in football ratings and championships, and fine with the other basketball conferences in ratings and championships. ND is not needed for that - and quite honestly, hasn't contributed to the championship goal in 36 years!!! Ouch

The problem that I've yet to hear a solution for, is how to restore those programs? Is is cultural, coaching, budget restrictions, talent access, so forth that is keeping these programs from their old ways? How do we solve it?

A top 6 of...
Ohio State,
Michigan,
Penn State,
Oregon,
USC - historical,
Nebraska - historical, -
would provide plenty of ratings and opportunities for National Championships. Add in Washington, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan State and the conference is fine and doesn't need watered down just for expansion sake

(04-12-2024 12:49 PM)stechs02 Wrote:  Terry - I've followed these forums for awhile and I believe you would be bored if most fans were like me and could care less for this ND / B1G courtship that so many are in love with - you'd miss it I think ha

In all honesty, the B1G doesn't need ND and ND doesn't need the B1G.

What the B1G does need is a "plan" to reinvigorate historically great brands that have "lost their way" back to their old selves. Looking at you USC and Nebraska football, and you Indiana and UCLA basketball. If that happens, the B1G will compete fine with the SEC in football ratings and championships, and fine with the other basketball conferences in ratings and championships. ND is not needed for that - and quite honestly, hasn't contributed to the championship goal in 36 years!!! Ouch

The problem that I've yet to hear a solution for, is how to restore those programs? Is is cultural, coaching, budget restrictions, talent access, so forth that is keeping these programs from their old ways? How do we solve it?

A top 6 of...
Ohio State,
Michigan,
Penn State,
Oregon,
USC - historical,
Nebraska - historical, -
would provide plenty of ratings and opportunities for National Championships. Add in Washington, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan State and the conference is fine and doesn't need watered down just for expansion sake

Actually, I would be extremely happy if the Big Ten finally moved on from ND and that ND is never mentioned on these boards.

It would save me lots of typing, lol.

Take care.

(04-26-2024 10:02 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-12-2024 12:49 PM)stechs02 Wrote:  Terry - I've followed these forums for awhile and I believe you would be bored if most fans were like me and could care less for this ND / B1G courtship that so many are in love with - you'd miss it I think ha

In all honesty, the B1G doesn't need ND and ND doesn't need the B1G.

What the B1G does need is a "plan" to reinvigorate historically great brands that have "lost their way" back to their old selves. Looking at you USC and Nebraska football, and you Indiana and UCLA basketball. If that happens, the B1G will compete fine with the SEC in football ratings and championships, and fine with the other basketball conferences in ratings and championships. ND is not needed for that - and quite honestly, hasn't contributed to the championship goal in 36 years!!! Ouch

The problem that I've yet to hear a solution for, is how to restore those programs? Is is cultural, coaching, budget restrictions, talent access, so forth that is keeping these programs from their old ways? How do we solve it?

A top 6 of...
Ohio State,
Michigan,
Penn State,
Oregon,
USC - historical,
Nebraska - historical, -
would provide plenty of ratings and opportunities for National Championships. Add in Washington, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan State and the conference is fine and doesn't need watered down just for expansion sake

Actually, I would be extremely happy if the Big Ten finally moved on from ND and that ND is never mentioned on these boards.

It would save me lots of typing, lol.

Take care.

lol cheers to moving on!

If the B1G must go to 20 to keep pace with other conferences expansion (cough SEC, cough SEC), I'm hoping for a Miami / Stanford combo. Call it quits there

(04-02-2024 05:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This isn’t the typical angle I take when looking at Big 10 expansion but if the Big 10 were to go bold and expand with:

Notre Dame
Florida St

4 of: Miami, GT, Clemson, UNC, UVA

That would be sure to get some folk’s attention.

Ok, trying to follow the original post.

I'm going to sidestep the ND thing. And I don't think non-AAU Clemson gets an invite. FSU has, I think, at least a better chance.

So that's: FSU, Miami, GT, UNC, UVA

If, as the OP seems to suggest, 24 is the target, then I just need to add one more school.

Since the OP hasn't included western schools, I'll avoid them for this too.

So I think #6 would be Duke.

I personally think there are other permutations of this that are better, but, of the options laid out by the OP, I think these are probably the best choices.

(04-12-2024 09:59 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  An out-of-the-blue idea:

South Florida and Utah

Why?

- AAU, Tampa Bay area, increased focus on football, no ACC GoR to contend with, international airport, new stadium on the way, doesn't have to immediately compete right at the start, can start off with deal lower than Oregon's. Sure, some egos would be hurt by taking a program from the G level but so what. USF has so much going for them and they'll gladly take a spot in an Upper Two conference, bypassing the Disney/SEC/plantation machine.

- Growing market in Salt Lake City, has made a commitment to football years ago, would jump at the chance, AAU, fills the hole in the third time zone, of the four corners has the best upside. They always want to be away from the BYU shadow. Question of how they get out of B12 GoR but would be the least disruptive move from that conference.

Let's face it: ESPN plays dirty so best to go around them.

If we are going for pairs, I think the SEC grabs FSU and Clemson. And maybe NC and VT.

I agree that USF (plus Miami) would be a smart move for the Big10.

I'm not so sure about Utah. I think there are other western schools who might get an invite ahead of them.

But if we're avoiding the ACC, then I think Kansas and Colorado are the move. Contiguous. Former Big8 rivals. And Colorado has history with the former PAC schools. And of course adds Kansas as a basketball power.

(04-30-2024 01:09 AM)Skyhawk Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 05:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This isn’t the typical angle I take when looking at Big 10 expansion but if the Big 10 were to go bold and expand with:

Notre Dame
Florida St

4 of: Miami, GT, Clemson, UNC, UVA

That would be sure to get some folk’s attention.

Ok, trying to follow the original post.

I'm going to sidestep the ND thing. And I don't think non-AAU Clemson gets an invite. FSU has, I think, at least a better chance.

So that's: FSU, Miami, GT, UNC, UVA

If, as the OP seems to suggest, 24 is the target, then I just need to add one more school.

Since the OP hasn't included western schools, I'll avoid them for this too.

So I think #6 would be Duke.

I personally think there are other permutations of this that are better, but, of the options laid out by the OP, I think these are probably the best choices.

The whole point of the OP was would letting in the other 4 be enough to make FSU and ND feel at home in the Big 10. A move to 24 really isn’t justified unless you can bring in some really big players.

This combination would give ND a truly national schedule with teams in the Southeast, Midwest, mid Atlantic, and West Coast.

For Florida St, they’d have some rivals like Miami & GT so they wouldn’t feel so isolated.

If you can’t get a big player, it doesn’t make sense to go beyond 18.