1) Sparks, Ball State - Proven MAC Player

2) Hubbard, Toledo - Proven MAC (WMU) Player

3) Searles, Ohio -- Big D2 Post player

4) Morales, Kent -- Patriot League stretch 4

5) Green, BG -- 4* P5 transfer w/rep, weak stats

6) Kyler Vanderjagt, CMU -- P5 transfer, weak stats

7) O'Rourke, Toledo -- D2 shooter w/size

(04-04-2024 06:49 PM)cleveland Wrote:  1) Sparks, Ball State - Proven MAC Player

2) Hubbard, Toledo - Proven MAC (WMU) Player

3) Searles, Ohio -- Big D2 Post player

4) Morales, Kent -- Patriot League stretch 4

5) Green, BG -- 4* P5 transfer w/rep, weak stats

6) Kyler Vanderjagt, CMU -- P5 transfer, weak stats

7) O'Rourke, Toledo -- D2 shooter w/size

Vanderjagt is transferring to CMU from Belmont of the MVC.

We probably should wait a month or so longer before doing this exercise. The MAC is going to have a lot more than 7 incoming transfers before it's all said and done.

I've seen a couple rankings of D2 portal guys and O'rourke was in the top 5 of both and Searles was not. All I know about the 2 players is from a couple minutes of video and both strike me as ready to play rotation guys in the MAC but neither as a high impact guy. O'Rourke can shoot from 3 and is versatile. Searles more of a typical post.

Sparks certainly is the top incoming transfer. We know how tough he will be down low in the MAC. Hubbard at Toledo will be interesting. He's got 2 years to play (Sparks only 1) and Toledo does an excellent job at developing good shooters into great ones.

Morales is a nice fit at Kent. A frontcourt of Hornbeak, Morales and VC Davis is balanced and very experienced. Any news on if Sullinger is out for sure, or if he might come back?

Vanderjagt and Green were studs in HS who didn't see much time as college freshmen. Talented guys, let's see if they are developing or peaked early.

As stated above, lots more news to come and too early to rank but Kent and Toledo seem close to pulling their rosters together already.

(04-05-2024 03:02 AM)pono Wrote:  I've seen a couple rankings of D2 portal guys and O'rourke was in the top 5 of both and Searles was not. All I know about the 2 players is from a couple minutes of video and both strike me as ready to play rotation guys in the MAC but neither as a high impact guy. O'Rourke can shoot from 3 and is versatile. Searles more of a typical post.

Sparks certainly is the top incoming transfer. We know how tough he will be down low in the MAC. Hubbard at Toledo will be interesting. He's got 2 years to play (Sparks only 1) and Toledo does an excellent job at developing good shooters into great ones.

Morales is a nice fit at Kent. A frontcourt of Hornbeak, Morales and VC Davis is balanced and very experienced. Any news on if Sullinger is out for sure, or if he might come back?

Vanderjagt and Green were studs in HS who didn't see much time as college freshmen. Talented guys, let's see if they are developing or peaked early.

As stated above, lots more news to come and too early to rank but Kent and Toledo seem close to pulling their rosters together already.

Excellent post, pono!

(04-05-2024 03:02 AM)pono Wrote:  As stated above, lots more news to come and too early to rank but Kent and Toledo seem close to pulling their rosters together already.

Ohios roster is as well, barring any late additions to the portal. Hunter and Miles Brown graduated, Izuma is transferring out. That leaves the scholarship players below

Guards: Shareef Mitchell, Ajay Sheldon, Elmore James, AJ Brown
Forwards: AJ Clayton, Aidan Hadaway, Ike Cornish

They will be joined by Ben Nicol (F, Redshirted last year), Jesse Burris (G, Freshman), Ayden Evans (F, Freshman), & Vic Searls (SR, Transfer).

That’s 11 scholarships. Wiznitzer has another year of eligibility, but is not currently listed on the 2024-25 roster page, so he’s probably graduating and moving on. Alex Evan’s (Aydens brother) committed but not sure if he’s a PWO or taking a scholarship. So that leaves 1 or 2 more scholarships for freshman / transfers next year. Surprisingly low turnover given the climate of CBB today.

(04-05-2024 01:16 PM)Eagle66 Wrote:  

(04-05-2024 03:02 AM)pono Wrote:  As stated above, lots more news to come and too early to rank but Kent and Toledo seem close to pulling their rosters together already.

Ohios roster is as well, barring any late additions to the portal. Hunter and Miles Brown graduated, Izuma is transferring out. That leaves the scholarship players below

Guards: Shareef Mitchell, Ajay Sheldon, Elmore James, AJ Brown
Forwards: AJ Clayton, Aidan Hadaway, Ike Cornish

They will be joined by Ben Nicol (F, Redshirted last year), Jesse Burris (G, Freshman), Ayden Evans (F, Freshman), & Vic Searls (SR, Transfer).

That’s 11 scholarships. Wiznitzer has another year of eligibility, but is not currently listed on the 2024-25 roster page, so he’s probably graduating and moving on. Alex Evan’s (Aydens brother) committed but not sure if he’s a PWO or taking a scholarship. So that leaves 1 or 2 more scholarships for freshman / transfers next year. Surprisingly low turnover given the climate of CBB today.

I'm very excited about next year's team!

accurate additions on Ohio. they also have a mostly full and competitive roster in place. considering they were decent last year with their (arguably) best player hurt most of the yr and no real starting big man I see them trending up. Probably need to add a portal or JUCO PG and post player to contend unless Searles is a legit starter.

(04-06-2024 08:02 PM)pono Wrote:  accurate additions on Ohio. they also have a mostly full and competitive roster in place. considering they were decent last year with their (arguably) best player hurt most of the yr and no real starting big man I see them trending up. Probably need to add a portal or JUCO PG and post player to contend unless Searles is a legit starter.

Bobcats most complete MAC team returning for next season, much like Akron this season. Just need some depth additions and should be the favorites next fall.

Big dropoff (at this point) to No. 2 although I would guess - on paper - Ball State might be in the hunt. Other that the Bobcats (and Toledo) what other MAC team returns its starting PG???

Actually, ... forgot about Miami. They might be a distant No. 2. Very distant.

(04-06-2024 08:29 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(04-06-2024 08:02 PM)pono Wrote:  accurate additions on Ohio. they also have a mostly full and competitive roster in place. considering they were decent last year with their (arguably) best player hurt most of the yr and no real starting big man I see them trending up. Probably need to add a portal or JUCO PG and post player to contend unless Searles is a legit starter.

Other that the Bobcats (and Toledo) what other MAC team returns its starting PG???

Actually, ... forgot about Miami. They might be a distant No. 2. Very distant.

Nate Johnson for Akron.

Generally agree on the positive assessments of OHIO for next year. Will be even more enthusiastic if we can acquire the services of an agile big man!

Would not call Ohio the favorite. To me a favorite has a star player or a high level starting 5. Ohio has several pretty good MAC players, a potential all-mac guy coming off an injury who wasn't quite at all-conf level based on his play last season before he got hurt, and some holes at PG and center. Ohio should have enough to compete and possibly challenge for the title but I would need to see a reason to think they'll be better after losing an all-mac PG and still lacking a solid big man.

BG is a sleeper again. Simon will continue adding talent. Miami will be interesting as they had promising play from a big freshman class and kids usually make their biggest improvement year 1-2. They also have holes but return their best young talent and have some momentum.

Of course, Toledo has won 4 straight titles and was not picked to win any of those years. So, it will be interesting to see if they are again undervalued.

The portal is loaded so it'll be another month before any of our talk will be based on fairly complete info.

(04-10-2024 10:59 PM)pono Wrote:  Would not call Ohio the favorite. To me a favorite has a star player or a high level starting 5. Ohio has several pretty good MAC players, a potential all-mac guy coming off an injury who wasn't quite at all-conf level based on his play last season before he got hurt, and some holes at PG and center. Ohio should have enough to compete and possibly challenge for the title but I would need to see a reason to think they'll be better after losing an all-mac PG and still lacking a solid big man.

BG is a sleeper again. Simon will continue adding talent. Miami will be interesting as they had promising play from a big freshman class and kids usually make their biggest improvement year 1-2. They also have holes but return their best young talent and have some momentum.

Of course, Toledo has won 4 straight titles and was not picked to win any of those years. So, it will be interesting to see if they are again undervalued.

The portal is loaded so it'll be another month before any of our talk will be based on fairly complete info.

There is usually at least one team, most year 2 or 3, that have lots of returning talent and you think they're instant contenders or proverbial favorites. This year it just seems an already bad MAC got worse. Toledo, Kent, and Akron all lost significant talent to the portal or graduation. Ohio right now might be classified as the favorite, but as of right now, they look much weaker than previous MAC favorites. It wouldn't surprise me if someone other than the usual contenders wins the MAC next year. It's ripe for the taking.

(04-10-2024 10:59 PM)pono Wrote:  Ohio has several pretty good MAC players, a potential all-mac guy coming off an injury who wasn't quite at all-conf level based on his play last season before he got hurt, and some holes at PG and center. Ohio should have enough to compete and possibly challenge for the title but I would need to see a reason to think they'll be better after losing an all-mac PG and still lacking a solid big man.

AJ Brown played 6 games before getting hurt and tried to play through it for 3 more before having the surgery. Not sure its fair to summarize his play on such a small sample size. 11 Points / 3 rebounds / 1 assist / 1 steal per game in 6 pre-injury games for a sophomore isn't too bad.

I disagree with the hole at C with AJ Clayton returning. He is more than a solid big man. He is one of 2 returning players who made any of the 3 all mac teams I believe. After that though it does get thin though.

PG will depend on if Mitchell can go from a combo guard who played with an all-mac guard to the main guy running the point... or if Ajay Sheldon takes another big step forward. Agree that those are both unknowns at this point. Mitchell did have a 1.7 AST / TO ratio last year though.

(04-10-2024 11:52 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  There is usually at least one team, most year 2 or 3, that have lots of returning talent and you think they're instant contenders or proverbial favorites. This year it just seems an already bad MAC got worse. Toledo, Kent, and Akron all lost significant talent to the portal or graduation. Ohio right now might be classified as the favorite, but as of right now, they look much weaker than previous MAC favorites. It wouldn't surprise me if someone other than the usual contenders wins the MAC next year. It's ripe for the taking.

I wouldn't call anyone favorites right now. Too much can change with 1 or 2 transfers. I just like the roster consistency (as of now) for Ohio. I think whomever starts the year as the favorite will be weaker than previous just due to the trends of the league. Really hope I'm wrong on that one.

AJ Brown played 6 games before getting hurt and tried to play through it for 3 more before having the surgery. Not sure its fair to summarize his play on such a small sample size. 11 Points / 3 rebounds / 1 assist / 1 steal per game in 6 pre-injury games for a sophomore isn't too bad.
-of course you summarize him on his play over his 6 healthy games. anything else is imagination. he might be really good. I get it. but 11/3/1 for a star guard is not good.


I disagree with the hole at C with AJ Clayton returning. He is more than a solid big man.
-i like clayton. I don't consider him a big. a big needs to be a rim protector or be good in the post on off or def. a 6-8 guy who plays 24 feet from the basket is not a big. put Clayton in his natural stretch forward position next to a real big man and Ohio is cooking with gas.

I think whomever starts the year as the favorite will be weaker than previous just due to the trends of the league. Really hope I'm wrong on that one.
- way too early to tell. from 2018-2021 the MAC did not lose a first round NCAA tournament game. and Akron let an upset of 11th ranked UCLA slip away right at the end in 2022. There is crazy roster turnover eveywhere these days. there's P5 schools that can barely put 5 guys on the court right now. MAC teams are usually a player or two away from being good or able to just get enough players to be good.

If Ohio adds a talented big guy or PG I could see them being good.

People are writing off Toledo again, but we've already upgraded the frontcourt. 3 all Mac guards in the portal but one is considering coming back. one has been replaced w similar level talent and scorer in Hubbard. and Toledo has 2 really skilled freshmen guards in Ford and Lewis who can't replace Moss' toughness and strength but are far more natural scorers. Have the MI Mr Bball runner-up coming in, a muscular 6-5 shooting guard. a still have at least 1 scholarship to offer.

Barbee knows talent and he's starting to figure out the MAC. I'm not necessarily a fan, but my guess is he will recruit any frontcourt holes and CMU (who beat American Champ S Fla at their place last yr) w a returning star PG will be more consistent early and their tough scheduling will finally rub off w a good computer ranking.

BG under Simon is interesting. Kent might be better w/o Sulinger (too streaky, didn't do anything but score) and Santiago (average passer and inefficient shooter who had a tendency not to make open shots in big moments). Miami under Steele is probably gonna win more games. Akron needs talent but they usually find it. Yes, the other half the league looks bad, but Ball St got Sparks back so if they can find a good PG they might surprise. The league may suck again, but my guess is the law of averages swings a bit and the MAC get back towards it's normal place in the middle of D1 conferences (there are 32, before last year the MAC had never been lower 18th, historically finished mostly in the 9-12 range, but has been slipping toward the middle 14-18 in the portal/NIL/state higher Ed budget cuts years.) Sendy, Kowalcyzk, Boals, Groce, Barbee, Steele, Simon the league has pretty high level coaching.
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(04-13-2024 12:47 AM)pono Wrote:  AJ Brown played 6 games before getting hurt and tried to play through it for 3 more before having the surgery. Not sure it’s fair to summarize his play on such a small sample size. 11 Points / 3 rebounds / 1 assist / 1 steal per game in 6 pre-injury games for a sophomore isn't too bad.
-of course you summarize him on his play over his 6 healthy games. anything else is imagination. he might be really good. I get it. but 11/3/1 for a star guard is not good.


I disagree with the hole at C with AJ Clayton returning. He is more than a solid big man.
-i like clayton. I don't consider him a big. a big needs to be a rim protector or be good in the post on off or def. a 6-8 guy who plays 24 feet from the basket is not a big. put Clayton in his natural stretch forward position next to a real big man and Ohio is cooking with gas.

I think whomever starts the year as the favorite will be weaker than previous just due to the trends of the league. Really hope I'm wrong on that one.
- [i]way too early to tell. from 2018-2021 the MAC did not lose a first round NCAA tournament game. and Akron let an upset of 11th ranked UCLA slip away right at the end in 2022. There is crazy roster turnover eveywhere these days. there's P5 schools that can barely put 5 guys on the court right now. MAC teams are usually a player or two away from being good or able to just get enough players to be good.

Always a great detailed discussion with you pono. Appreciate it.

My point on Brown was to say anyone can slump over 6 games. The question is was the 11/3/1 a slump or the normal. He didn’t get a chance to answer that question because of the small sample size.

As for Clayton, he was second in the league in blocks last year. At this level, he is a rim protector. For the record, I would prefer to see him as a stretch 4 also, but this is where he plays right now.

Maybe I’m being pessimistic after the overall bad season last year. Over the last 3 seasons the top 3 teams in the NET were 79/86/88 (2021) 86/119/120 (2022) and 108/130/139 (2023). I hope you’re right that the pendulum swings back, but if the trend continues it could be a long season.

Ohio does have some incoming freshmen bigs that might play early on. Clayton. Hadaway and the transfer from Ashland should get the bulk of minutes in the frontcourt. Hadaway really made a big jump last year. Another year in the weight room should help. The wings with Elmore James and AJ Brown. Their health was a struggle this past season. point guard will be Mitchell with Sheldon behind him. That is 7 man rotation. Figure a couple freshmen earn some backup time. Transfer always possible, but where is the playing time coming from.