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New Orleans - smn1256 - 08-31-2008 09:23 PM
Now that another major hurricane is about to hit New Orleans I have to admit I'm wondering if NO gets wiped out again would it be worth the money, time and effort to rebuild it just so it can happen again a few years from now?
I'm beginning to believe it won't be worth it. Not only that, how much money is being spent yearly to maintain a city that's below sea level? New Orleans is both an engineering marvel and nightmare but how long can it exist before it finally succumbs to the inevitable?
RE: New Orleans - mlb - 08-31-2008 09:27 PM
I've said since Katrina that we should be moving those people to a new city. Paying to keep the current city in its place is just dumb.
RE: New Orleans - Owl 69/70/75 - 08-31-2008 09:30 PM
I've heard speculation that the same thing could happen to New Orleans and Baton Rouge that happened to Galveston and Houston after the 1900 hurricane. Galveston was the premier city before then; most everything moved inland to Houston afterwards. I will say that before that can happen, Baton Rouge will need some serious infrastructure upgrades. With the number of people who left New Orleans after Katrina and did not return, gridlock is a daily occurrence at two rush hours there.
RE: New Orleans - Rebel - 09-01-2008 12:07 AM
Can someone please bring that graphic back up that shows all those navigable waterways emptying out into the Mississippi, and down to NO? There is no WAY we can abandon NO. It should, however, be built up, I.e. in height.
RE: New Orleans - Owl 69/70/75 - 09-01-2008 09:51 AM
One thing that I wonder about is possibly building some internal levees. One problem with Katrina is that once a levee broke the water could pretty much spread to everywhere that was below sea level. For example, I wonder if you could take the elevated sections of I-10 and fill in underneath to create a levee, then connect the sections to each other and to the external levees, to seal off the northern part of town from the south. Put some kind of movable floodgates at the interchanges/intersections. Do similar things to compartmentalize the city into about 6 or 8 parts. Put parks along these internal levees.
Then take the sections that are below sea level and fill them in to build up to at least sea level.
I'm not an engineer, and I have no idea about the feasibility or cost of doing this. Actually, I do have an idea about the cost, and I'm sure it's incredibly expensive. But I still wonder if something like this isn't both possible and desirable.
I don't think we should, or can, abandon New Orleans. The city has been part of my life for 50 years, and I would not want to lose it, for myself or my descendants. I do wonder if it doesn't make more sense to keep the port and touristy parts of New Orleans in place, and shift the things that don't have to be in NO further upriver, perhaps to Baton Rouge. The infrastructure upgrades that BR would require to make that a reasonable option would probably cost as much as rebuilding NO.
RE: New Orleans - Rebel - 09-01-2008 09:56 AM
The thing is, when you build up with dirt, you always have to worry about liquefaction. I was thinking building up like Seattle or some places in Atlanta.
RE: New Orleans - Fort Bend Owl - 09-01-2008 10:44 AM
Ever since I first went into New Orleans nearly 20 years ago and saw the overground cemeteries, I thought the city was odd.
My question is, are there other cities in the southeast that are in the same boat but just have been able to escape mother nature's wrath? Any big cities in Florida below sea level for instance? Miami must be close to sea level.
BTW, it's possible parts of Louisiana other than New Orleans get the worst of Gustav.
RE: New Orleans - Rebel - 09-01-2008 10:49 AM
Fort Bend Owl Wrote:Ever since I first went into New Orleans nearly 20 years ago and saw the overground cemeteries, I thought the city was odd.
My question is, are there other cities in the southeast that are in the same boat but just have been able to escape mother nature's wrath? Any big cities in Florida below sea level for instance? Miami must be close to sea level.
BTW, it's possible parts of Louisiana other than New Orleans get the worst of Gustav.
Being at "close to sea level" isn't the problem. Even if it's 5' above sea level, the water will eventually recede. The problem with NO is it's way below sea level. There are always a few cities that are threatened like this. Sacramento, Ca. and a few in NC come to mind.
Other than that, the only city know of that won't empty by itself is NO.
RE: New Orleans - Owl 69/70/75 - 09-01-2008 11:15 AM
Rebel Wrote:The thing is, when you build up with dirt, you always have to worry about liquefaction. I was thinking building up like Seattle or some places in Atlanta.
That's one reason why I'd be interested in the internal levee option. Would't prevent flooding, but would certainly facilitate containment. The freeway idea was a way to try to do it with minimal footprint. A really extensive system would take up a lot of ground.
RE: New Orleans - mlb - 09-01-2008 12:13 PM
Rebel Wrote:Can someone please bring that graphic back up that shows all those navigable waterways emptying out into the Mississippi, and down to NO? There is no WAY we can abandon NO. It should, however, be built up, I.e. in height.
I don't think anybody is saying abandon the waterway. I think we just need to move the people out of town, and only have people down there doing work to keep the waterway open. Rebuilding the 9th ward, and all the other neighborhoods that are 10' below sea level is just ridiculous.
RE: New Orleans - smn1256 - 09-01-2008 12:21 PM
mlb Wrote:Rebuilding the 9th ward, and all the other neighborhoods that are 10' below sea level is just ridiculous.
I tend to agree. The cost of maintaining it and then rebuilding everything that gets destroyed is seems unjustified - especially when you consider that NO could be hit with one or two hurricanes every year.
RE: New Orleans - fsquid - 09-01-2008 12:48 PM
Quote:My question is, are there other cities in the southeast that are in the same boat but just have been able to escape mother nature's wrath? Any big cities in Florida below sea level for instance? Miami must be close to sea level.
Long Island
Tampa
Miami
Galveston
Wilmington
RE: New Orleans - Rebel - 09-01-2008 12:54 PM
Jindal is taking charge.
RE: New Orleans - mlb - 09-01-2008 01:08 PM
Tampa, Miami, and Wilmington have been hit with major hurricane's recently. None of them have had the issues that New Orleans has had.
Miami and Wilmington had very strong hurricanes hit, Tampa not quite as strong.
RE: New Orleans - Owl 69/70/75 - 09-01-2008 01:09 PM
Being two feet above sea level is vastly different from being two feet below sea level. Both get flooded, but the water runs out in one, stays in the other.
RE: New Orleans - WoodlandsOwl - 09-01-2008 01:20 PM
http://www.fox8live.com/#
New Orleans' WVUE TV is streaming 24/7 their news braodcasts.
Better coverage than FNC or CNN.
Looks like a problwm starting on the Industrial Canal in NOLA.
RE: New Orleans - mlb - 09-01-2008 01:33 PM
Anything more than the spilling over that has been happening all day?
RE: New Orleans - smn1256 - 09-01-2008 09:15 PM
When Katrina wiped out NO the democrats were quick to blame Bush for much of it. Hurricane Gustav appears to have caused (at this time) much less damage and carnage. Should GW be given credit? Or maybe recognition of a republican governor doing what a democrat one didn't?
RE: New Orleans - Machiavelli - 09-01-2008 11:14 PM
Seems a great effort was made by all involved. Kudos
RE: New Orleans - WoodlandsOwl - 09-03-2008 08:27 PM
Looks like Gustav took out most of the power grid in Louisiana.
I bet refineries and pipelines get priority on restoration of service.