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Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - gulfcoastgal - 06-05-2018 11:12 AM
Good interview on how he came up with the idea for strengthening mid major schedules. Also mentions a CUSA/SBC/Horizon alliance with the possibility of more to come.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - Gamecock - 06-05-2018 11:24 AM
Cliffs?
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - Attackcoog - 06-05-2018 12:22 PM
Really worth the time to listen. Very interesting "inside baseball" stuff on why we are seeing certain trends in basketball P5 scheduling and innovative ways for the mid/low majors to respond to these trends.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - Chuck_A - 06-05-2018 12:35 PM
I thought it was very interesting! Just hope The Alliance can pull it off. CUSA, the Sun Belt and the Horizon League. Sounds like a good group to start off with.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - CliftonAve - 06-05-2018 01:17 PM
(06-05-2018 12:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote: Really worth the time to listen. Very interesting "inside baseball" stuff on why we are seeing certain trends in basketball P5 scheduling and innovative ways for the mid/low majors to respond to these trends.
Mark is a Cincinnati native and a UC grad. His brother Tim is the founder of UC's largest fan site. Like he indicated in the interview, he has been very passionate and outspoken about this for a while now.
He dived into this a little, but I know he strongly encourages non-cartel conference schools against taking buy games. The money is good in the short term, but you are eventually cutting off other revenue streams. He would like non-cartel conferences to move to 20 game conference schedules, with the OOC consisting of home and homes with schools willing to do so, along with schools from conferences you are aligned with. His theory is this will aid the non P5/6 conferences to get more bids in the tournament (thus taking away the last bid or two away from the conferences that get 6-9 teams in the tournament).
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - IWokeUpLikeThis - 06-05-2018 02:01 PM
In addition to the new CUSA & BELT smart scheduling, Mark Adams is also scheduling 1 home & 1 road game for each CUSA/BELT/HL team on Nov 26 and Nov 30.
If this works out, Mark Adams will seriously go down as a legend. He’s singlehandedly shifting the landscape of college basketball without even being a player/coach/AD/President/Commissioner/NCAA official.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - Wedge - 06-05-2018 02:31 PM
(06-05-2018 01:17 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: He dived into this a little, but I know he strongly encourages non-cartel conference schools against taking buy games. The money is good in the short term, but you are eventually cutting off other revenue streams.
There must be at least 100 D-1 men's basketball teams that average less than 1,000 tickets sold per home game.
What other revenue streams are they cutting off?
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - arkstfan - 06-05-2018 04:38 PM
(06-05-2018 02:31 PM)Wedge Wrote:(06-05-2018 01:17 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: He dived into this a little, but I know he strongly encourages non-cartel conference schools against taking buy games. The money is good in the short term, but you are eventually cutting off other revenue streams.
There must be at least 100 D-1 men's basketball teams that average less than 1,000 tickets sold per home game.
What other revenue streams are they cutting off?
I wonder what the scheduling looks like for them.
I went back through Pacific's schedules right after they dropped football. It was like watching a disease progress. Lose, attendance drops, add money game, record doesn't get better, attendance falls more, start playing two money games, and on it went with Pacific averaging three modern P5's on the road every year. Admittedly some of those were parts of home and homes but they were middling to bad Big West playing three strong road games a year had some years with four home games.
I 100% understand that the Vice-Chancellor for Finance isn't going to sign off on a budget based on "we will win this year and increase ticket sales 25%" and will insist you either show a history of sales or demand you sign guarantee games to hit a target of revenue.
Arkansas-Pine Bluff went 14-21. They went 1-15 in non-conference. The only win in non-conference was November 3rd against something called Champion Baptist. They did not play at home again until January 13 for their fourth conference game. They started league play 3-0 so they were 4-15 when they played their second home game of the year.
There is a point where you are basically locking yourself in to having a bad record and assuring there is little chance of convincing people to buy a ticket.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - Wedge - 06-05-2018 04:58 PM
(06-05-2018 04:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:(06-05-2018 02:31 PM)Wedge Wrote:(06-05-2018 01:17 PM)CliftonAve Wrote: He dived into this a little, but I know he strongly encourages non-cartel conference schools against taking buy games. The money is good in the short term, but you are eventually cutting off other revenue streams.
There must be at least 100 D-1 men's basketball teams that average less than 1,000 tickets sold per home game.
What other revenue streams are they cutting off?
I wonder what the scheduling looks like for them.
I went back through Pacific's schedules right after they dropped football. It was like watching a disease progress. Lose, attendance drops, add money game, record doesn't get better, attendance falls more, start playing two money games, and on it went with Pacific averaging three modern P5's on the road every year. Admittedly some of those were parts of home and homes but they were middling to bad Big West playing three strong road games a year had some years with four home games.
I 100% understand that the Vice-Chancellor for Finance isn't going to sign off on a budget based on "we will win this year and increase ticket sales 25%" and will insist you either show a history of sales or demand you sign guarantee games to hit a target of revenue.
Arkansas-Pine Bluff went 14-21. They went 1-15 in non-conference. The only win in non-conference was November 3rd against something called Champion Baptist. They did not play at home again until January 13 for their fourth conference game. They started league play 3-0 so they were 4-15 when they played their second home game of the year.
There is a point where you are basically locking yourself in to having a bad record and assuring there is little chance of convincing people to buy a ticket.
At Pacific, I doubt I-A football was ever financially viable, no matter how they scheduled. It's a very small private university in a small city with a generally not wealthy population.
Many of these sub-1000 attendance basketball programs are in the same kind of financial situation. They absolutely shouldn't schedule 5-10 buy games per season. But they couldn't generate enough revenue to be even close to self-supporting no matter how they schedule.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - gulfcoastgal - 06-05-2018 05:41 PM
(06-05-2018 11:24 AM)Gamecock Wrote: Cliffs?
Using pods for late season intraconference games and an alliance for Nov. interconference games (one home and away game) to help boost RPI.
*Primary Goal - improve conference tourney champ auto. seeds
*Secondary Goal - grabbing an at large bid when a team having a great year loses in the conference tourney
Also, talked about the possibility of mids owning and running neutral site tourneys in the future.
Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - Jjoey52 - 06-06-2018 06:00 PM
(06-05-2018 05:41 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:(06-05-2018 11:24 AM)Gamecock Wrote: Cliffs?
Using pods for late season intraconference games and an alliance for Nov. interconference games (one home and away game) to help boost RPI.
*Primary Goal - improve conference tourney champ auto. seeds
*Secondary Goal - grabbing an at large bid when a team having a great year loses in the conference tourney
Also, talked about the possibility of mids owning and running neutral site tourneys in the future.
I think this plan could help the higher mids, but lower mids need the road money to survive. Hopefully this works, I get nauseated by 9th place teams getting bids.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - TexanMark - 06-06-2018 10:06 PM
(06-06-2018 06:00 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:(06-05-2018 05:41 PM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:(06-05-2018 11:24 AM)Gamecock Wrote: Cliffs?
Using pods for late season intraconference games and an alliance for Nov. interconference games (one home and away game) to help boost RPI.
*Primary Goal - improve conference tourney champ auto. seeds
*Secondary Goal - grabbing an at large bid when a team having a great year loses in the conference tourney
Also, talked about the possibility of mids owning and running neutral site tourneys in the future.
I think this plan could help the higher mids, but lower mids need the road money to survive. Hopefully this works, I get nauseated by 9th place teams getting bids.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yeah it sucks when they get a slot and proceed to make a run to the Final Four or Sweet 16. Oh wait...
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - IWokeUpLikeThis - 06-06-2018 10:51 PM
11-seed mid majors to make Final Four:
George Mason, VCU, Loyola
Sub-.500 P5’s to make Final Four:
None
1 of the 2 groups has proven themselves. More mids, please.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - PicksUp - 06-06-2018 11:27 PM
(06-06-2018 10:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: 11-seed mid majors to make Final Four:
George Mason, VCU, Loyola
Sub-.500 P5’s to make Final Four:
None
1 of the 2 groups has proven themselves. More mids, please.
So being .500 in conference and 9th is the arbitrary line that makes it okay for teams from power conferences to make the tournament? Off the top of my head I know recently Syracuse and Uconn both made the Final Four with .500 records. I know Uconn was an automatic qualifier but that just proves strong teams lose many games in strong conferences. This year Syracuse played and lost multiple times to Virginia, UNC and Duke while St Mary's and Middle Tennessee beat bums like Pepperdine, Santa Clara, Rice, and Southern Miss (oh wait, they lost!).
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - chiefsfan - 06-06-2018 11:58 PM
(06-06-2018 11:27 PM)PicksUp Wrote:(06-06-2018 10:51 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: 11-seed mid majors to make Final Four:
George Mason, VCU, Loyola
Sub-.500 P5’s to make Final Four:
None
1 of the 2 groups has proven themselves. More mids, please.
So being .500 in conference and 9th is the arbitrary line that makes it okay for teams from power conferences to make the tournament? Off the top of my head I know recently Syracuse and Uconn both made the Final Four with .500 records. I know Uconn was an automatic qualifier but that just proves strong teams lose many games in strong conferences. This year Syracuse played and lost multiple times to Virginia, UNC and Duke while St Mary's and Middle Tennessee beat bums like Pepperdine, Santa Clara, Rice, and Southern Miss (oh wait, they lost!).
The problem is that its not St Mary's fault that they had to play Pepperdine or Santa Clara. Those are conference games. The WCC dictates they must play those teams. Ditto with MTSU and Rice and USM.
If the WCC had replaced Pepperdine and Santa Clara on St Mary's schedule with an extra two games each against BYU and Gonzaga, the Gaels are probably in the tournament and Syracuse is sitting at home.
That's the theory behind this scheduling. The bottom part of most mid major leagues drags the top half down, so instead, replace those games against the Bottom half with more games against the Top half, and the RPI should look a lot better.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - Wedge - 06-07-2018 12:06 AM
(06-06-2018 11:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote: If the WCC had replaced Pepperdine and Santa Clara on St Mary's schedule with an extra two games each against BYU and Gonzaga, the Gaels are probably in the tournament and Syracuse is sitting at home.
If Saint Mary's had played Nevada and Rhode Island instead of saying no to those games, they would have been in the NCAA tournament.
That's what SMC will have to do going forward, now that two of the lowest RPI conference games have been taken off of their schedule. Play quality non-conference opponents, even if you have to go on the road or to a neutral-site tournament to play them. And that's what the best teams in these other conferences should do, too, rather than just playing their top 2 conference mates 4 or 5 times each.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - IWokeUpLikeThis - 06-07-2018 12:15 AM
(06-06-2018 11:27 PM)PicksUp Wrote: So being .500 in conference and 9th is the arbitrary line that makes it okay for teams from power conferences to make the tournament?
Sure, why not?
As you explained...
(06-06-2018 11:27 PM)PicksUp Wrote: Off the top of my head I know recently Syracuse and Uconn both made the Final Four with .500 records.
11-seed mid-majors go to the Final Four.
.500 P5’s go to the Final Four.
3 each since 1986.
Seems like the logical, obvious solution is cutting out sub-.500’s - the ones you can’t provide a track record for.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - chiefsfan - 06-07-2018 12:16 AM
(06-07-2018 12:06 AM)Wedge Wrote:(06-06-2018 11:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote: If the WCC had replaced Pepperdine and Santa Clara on St Mary's schedule with an extra two games each against BYU and Gonzaga, the Gaels are probably in the tournament and Syracuse is sitting at home.
If Saint Mary's had played Nevada and Rhode Island instead of saying no to those games, they would have been in the NCAA tournament.
That's what SMC will have to do going forward, now that two of the lowest RPI conference games have been taken off of their schedule. Play quality non-conference opponents, even if you have to go on the road or to a neutral-site tournament to play them. And that's what the best teams in these other conferences should do, too, rather than just playing their top 2 conference mates 4 or 5 times each.
They will have to schedule better, however they need to schedule those games as home and homes...not take a check to go play someone on the road
In part of the interview he railed heavily about how unfair preseason tournaments are to Mid Majors. Those tournaments are essentially money grabbers, and nothing else. For many only power conference teams can get in, and mid majors are often relegated to smaller events playing a game at a P5 school and then getting sent to the middle of nowhere for two random neutral site games against other mid majors.
In his plan, mid majors would create their own preseason tournaments and base them off of RPI, to ensure of the best matchups for their top teams..
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - arkstfan - 06-07-2018 02:10 AM
(06-07-2018 12:06 AM)Wedge Wrote:(06-06-2018 11:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote: If the WCC had replaced Pepperdine and Santa Clara on St Mary's schedule with an extra two games each against BYU and Gonzaga, the Gaels are probably in the tournament and Syracuse is sitting at home.
If Saint Mary's had played Nevada and Rhode Island instead of saying no to those games, they would have been in the NCAA tournament.
That's what SMC will have to do going forward, now that two of the lowest RPI conference games have been taken off of their schedule. Play quality non-conference opponents, even if you have to go on the road or to a neutral-site tournament to play them. And that's what the best teams in these other conferences should do, too, rather than just playing their top 2 conference mates 4 or 5 times each.
The selection committee "ought" to place greater weight on non-conference performance because it is somewhat under the school' (takes two to tango).
St Mary's shouldn't be punished for being stuck in the best conference that will have them as a member but if they load up on cupcakes in non-conference they shouldn't be rewarded for playing a soft non-conference slate.
RE: Mark Adams Mid Major Scheduling Proposals - Go College Sports - 06-07-2018 07:11 AM
(06-07-2018 12:16 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:(06-07-2018 12:06 AM)Wedge Wrote:(06-06-2018 11:58 PM)chiefsfan Wrote: If the WCC had replaced Pepperdine and Santa Clara on St Mary's schedule with an extra two games each against BYU and Gonzaga, the Gaels are probably in the tournament and Syracuse is sitting at home.
If Saint Mary's had played Nevada and Rhode Island instead of saying no to those games, they would have been in the NCAA tournament.
That's what SMC will have to do going forward, now that two of the lowest RPI conference games have been taken off of their schedule. Play quality non-conference opponents, even if you have to go on the road or to a neutral-site tournament to play them. And that's what the best teams in these other conferences should do, too, rather than just playing their top 2 conference mates 4 or 5 times each.
They will have to schedule better, however they need to schedule those games as home and homes...not take a check to go play someone on the road
In part of the interview he railed heavily about how unfair preseason tournaments are to Mid Majors. Those tournaments are essentially money grabbers, and nothing else. For many only power conference teams can get in, and mid majors are often relegated to smaller events playing a game at a P5 school and then getting sent to the middle of nowhere for two random neutral site games against other mid majors.
In his plan, mid majors would create their own preseason tournaments and base them off of RPI, to ensure of the best matchups for their top teams..
Mid-majors, unless we are defining that group as all 275 schools outside of the power conferences, have plenty of opportunities in preseason tournaments. Middle Tennessee played in the Diamond Head Classic last year, and lost to USC and Miami. St Mary's played in the Wooden Legacy last year, and lost to Washington State and Georgia. If those two teams had won the games they had on the schedule, that would have been two more mid-majors in the at-large field.